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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
870
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Posted - 2013.04.18 01:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:I don't see why everybody is so worried about killmails.
Just remove them from the game and we won't have dumb whine posts.
Whether we should or should not have a record of the combat (killmail) is a different issue than the op raises.
The op is saying that since we we have killmails, they should be accurate. People against the op's proposal are just saying they want killmails to continue to give misleading information about the battle.
And really whether the links are on grid, or off grid doesn't change this issue. The killmails should still be accurate.
If I beat a t1 frigate with a t1 frigate the killmail should show that. If I beat a t1 frigate with a t1 frigate and loki the killmail should show that as well.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 02:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maximus Hashur wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:same rationale we should list the SP every char has too or any implants that contributed to it, how about a shout out for the marketeer who sold the ship that was used to kill that 'innocent victim' or the poor sod who ran a half million batch of ammo or.. or... or
buhu htfu :D Dude your referencing the economy of the game, and it has nothing to do with the post. Listing implants in a pilots head would be appropriate IF those implants added to the ability and operational characteristics of the ship itself. In effect, ANY contributing factor influencing both (or all) combatants of an engagement should be shown. I know this is unrealistic and CCP will most likely never do it, but it is a logical idea, if you are of the belief that all info relating to the participants of a fight should be shown. What started this post is me raging after a CNH nailed my 10mn arty thrasher in a 1v1 (or so I thought). His shields dropped in about 3-4 cycles of my arty, and then I proceeded to watch as his armor - a frigates armor regardless of it being faction or not - took at least 10 cycles of my arty at a range of 10 klicks. I know because he had me dual webbed as I burned away and I had him webbed as well so we locked each other together at 10. Any non- boosted "vanilla" CNH would not have survived that and the other guy even admitted it in local and acted all elite. He very simply is not the better pilot in that situation because he needed his booster to win. Bullshit.
Typically you do not see the entire fit of every ship contributing to a kill. In order to get that information you have to kill the ship. If someone has a faction ab you don't really get to see it if they kill you. Only if you kill them.
I suppose we could add the "pod" to the killmail if it contained any implant that contributed to the kill. I think that is a bit weak but I really wouldn't care either way.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:100% agreed with the OP.
They should also include my non-command ship Squad Commander on the killmail for passing me bonuses with all 5s leadership and allowing me great victor. Also put my scout alt on the killmail for sitting on the other side of the gate and providing eyes. The titan pilot that bridged our fleet should be rewarded by being on the killmail too. Last but not least please include Mom on the km for cooking me dinner and letting me live in the basement rent-free and my state government for the monthly unemployment checks.
Its the ships that are part of the combat. Not the skills. If you get edges because of skills that is something killmails do not even try to cover. But if you get assistance from modules on ships then killmails should cover them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Maximus Hashur wrote:Euasked wrote:I too make a forum thread everytime I lose a thrasher to :unfair: stuffs. And lol at OP implying that killmails are supposed to be some objective record or source of Intel, lazy scrublord ... Actually that is exactly what a kill mail is. A record of the kill and all of the participants of the engagement. What do you think it is? A killmail lacks a lot more information than it contains. Its more of a brief statement than a story.
In as far as it is reasonably possible the kill mails show what ships contributed to.the kill. With two exceptions:
1) it doest show boosts
2) it doest show repps.
IMO both exceptions should be fixed.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maximus Hashur wrote:
How is a person supposed to know who has boosts and who does not? In a purely random "roam" whether solo or in a fleet?
This.
There are only a few hard tells. Such as web and scram/disruptor range. Even there you sometimes have to assume he isn't faction fit so to know for sure you need to kill them.
If I am not chewing through tank as fast as i should is it do to transversal? Range? ewar? implants? boosters such as blue pill or exile or extinct? Or am I just underestimating the persons fit/skills/ship? Its hard to know.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
877
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Posted - 2013.04.24 15:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its interesting to see many people who use booster alts initially claim they don't care if the boosters are on the killmail or not. Then they proceed to make numerous posts trying to argue against adding them. They want to keep their invisible blob of t3s off the record. And keep the killmails misleading.
Flying through faction war space its getting to the point where I see more t3s on dscan that combat ships.
CCP claims that they want to do away with OGBs but they don't have the technical know how. Yet at every phase they buff them. T2 links, buffs to active tanks, buffs to missile kiting platforms. I'm starting to question ccp's word on this one.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
878
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 01:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:in b4 cearain crys for a notification of OGB too ..... ;)
from what i got talking to a few devs on sisi is there having a hard tiome making boosts work under AOE rather thanb just newere in system and until they get that right the wont be touched
They have said this before but then it raises the questions:
How can they do area effect for fw beacons, bubbles, old dd on titans,smartbombs etc?
Also do they actually have someone asigned to work on this or not? Until they actually assign someone to fix it, it won't get fixed.
These are the basic follow up questions that we still don't have answered.
If we had a notification that allowed us to warp directly to an off grid booster like a cyno.....
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
878
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 01:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Its interesting to see many people who use booster alts initially claim they don't care if the boosters are on the killmail or not. Then they proceed to make numerous posts trying to argue against adding them. They want to keep their invisible blob of t3s off the record. And keep the killmails misleading.
Flying through faction war space its getting to the point where I see more t3s on dscan that combat ships.
CCP claims that they want to do away with OGBs but they don't have the technical know how. Yet at every phase they buff them. T2 links, buffs to active tanks, buffs to missile kiting platforms. I'm starting to question ccp's word on this one. All killmails are misleading.
This is false but I fail to see the point of this post. Is this your argument?
Premise 1) if all killmails are misleading, then its better to make them even *more* misleading by not including boosters.
Premise 2) All killmails are misleading
Conclusion: Therefore we should make them even more misleading by not including boosters.
With the large exceptions of boosters and remote reps killmails are as accurate at reporting who was involved in the battle, as we can reasonably expect them to be.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
878
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Its interesting to see many people who use booster alts initially claim they don't care if the boosters are on the killmail or not. Then they proceed to make numerous posts trying to argue against adding them. They want to keep their invisible blob of t3s off the record. And keep the killmails misleading.
Flying through faction war space its getting to the point where I see more t3s on dscan that combat ships.
CCP claims that they want to do away with OGBs but they don't have the technical know how. Yet at every phase they buff them. T2 links, buffs to active tanks, buffs to missile kiting platforms. I'm starting to question ccp's word on this one. All killmails are misleading. This is false but I fail to see the point of this post. Is this your argument? Premise 1) if all killmails are misleading, then its better to make them even *more* misleading by not including boosters. Premise 2) All killmails are misleading Conclusion: Therefore we should make them even more misleading by not including boosters. With the large exceptions of boosters and remote reps killmails are as accurate at reporting who was involved in the battle, as we can reasonably expect them to be. Not really, the point of my argument is that no one looks at your km's in any great depth apart from you. Featuring boosters on km's seems redundant since you should already be aware of the boost since you just died. Sure newbs may not be able to discriminate between bad tracking and boosted resists, but i dont see the need to flatten the learning curve.
I don't think simply seeing how many ships where involved in killing you is "look[ing] at a km in any great depth."
Again your argument is switching back to the wrongheaded "who needs killmails anyway?" The only question is if we have them, why not make them less misleading? You like the fact that they are misleading. I see your published videos where you literally open them and show the killmail suggesting you killed a slicer in a maulus. So you can claim you don't care, but your constant posting of bad arguments to keep them misleading, and your actions on youtube reveals the truth.
Its not redundant to include boosters on the killmail since they are not included now. Moreover, its not always easy to tell if someone is boosted.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
880
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Assuming this is accurate:
I think he means make them less of a rarity to see in battles. Reduce the learning cliff and make it so they are more commonly fit on BCs. Make it so we see more run of the mill links on ships that cost under 500 mill and are flown by pilots that don't have 500 mill isk in implants focused on links. Links for the masses.
Since he again made it clear that they would need to be on grid I would be fine with this.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
882
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
iPod Nubz wrote:Maximus Hashur wrote:Actually its not the killmail I really care about. Its the fuc*in booster alts that give unfair advantage that need to be addressed. I heard that CCP is moving to require booster alts on grid
It is only unfair if some people don't have access to it. Get boosts yourself. Problem solved.
Yep everyone needs to have booster alts to be competitive. Eve Online becomes Alts Online. Great solution. I'm sure lots of people will want to start working this part time job - I mean play this game.
iPod Nubz wrote:
Whats next? being notified if the person has implants in his clone? Because that doesn't give him an advantage *at all*, right?
....
No.
Next we will have people trying to justify this broken mechanic with arguments that are so bad, they will be afraid to post them with their main.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
889
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:iPod Nubz wrote:
Whats next? being notified if the person has implants in his clone? Because that doesn't give him an advantage *at all*, right?
....
No. Next we will have people trying to justify this broken mechanic with arguments that are so bad, they will be afraid to post them with their main. EVE already is alts online. Im thinking that you and EVE have grown apart..
There are plenty of people who don't use booster alts. Its true their number is getting smaller but they are still around.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Also, implants on mail is exactly the same argument as boosters on mail. Good or bad argument i dont really care. Personally i reject it on the grounds of how eve generates mails and the fact that it currently incompatible with your wishes. Though, as always, dont let the reality of a situation get in your way. Also the fact that fighting someone who is boosted is pretty obvious to the experienced pilot. Though im pretty sure you had no idea i was boosted when i killed you the other day lol.
No its not the same argument. When you are involved with killing someone, your ship shows up, but not your complete fit. Not every module on the ship is shown. (Nor is the op asking that every module of the booster ship or any other ship be shown. Just that the ship itself be shown)
I think they take the view that if you want to see how the ship is fit you need to kill it. The same goes for pods. Every ship that is involved in killing someone has a pod. So adding a "pod" in addition to the ship to each killmail would be sort of silly. But I don't really care add "pod" to every kill if you want.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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