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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
548
   |
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey CCP, this is dumb as.
To quote Lincoln...
OHHHHHHHH!!! NOW YOU F***ED UP! |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
549
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Posted - 2013.04.18 17:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seriously though, this is an absolutely terrible idea and you should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing it to get past the discussion phase. Clearly cache scraping has not been considered an automatic EULA violation in the past (since you explicitly OKed projects that involved it). Nobody is comfortable with the idea of you calling us all out as e-criminals for using perfectly legitimate tools while reserving the right to ban us at any time. This is a terrible policy and should be rescinded immediately. If your department doesn't have the capacity to evaluate and green-list third party tools then you need to avoid language that makes using any tool an EULA violation. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
551
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:If your department doesn't have the capacity to evaluate and green-list third party tools then you need to avoid language that makes using any tool an EULA violation. The language of the third party policies post does not change the EULA. It simply explains the EULA more in depth. We can't green-list third party tools. For one thing, doing so could make us legally liable for the actions done by third parties. So I'm afraid it's not just feasible, even if it would make things easier.
You don't need to recommend the use of a tool or claim to know everything it does: you'd merely need to state that the use of tool X doesn't constitute an EULA violation. I'm not sure how saying "we won't ban you for using X" makes you legally liable for the actions of third parties, but then again I'm not a lawyer. Then again, neither are you.
Regardless, you need to come up with EULA wording that doesn't leave 95% of your customers in violation by default. Given that you already have clauses in the EULA that ban the sorts of activities you consider detrimental to the game (modifying the game world, accelerating or automating gameplay for the player's advantage), I don't see why your new stance on cache scraping is even necessary.
I don't really care how you go about correcting this deficiency of your EULA, but it should be done. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
551
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
The problem with list is that some of these pieces of software include things that can easily be used to go beyond their simple function as a utility. Providing a list opens a loop hole that would be much more difficult to plug.
If someone is using a tool (any tool) that allows them to accelerate / automate gameplay or modify the game world they can already be banned for violating the EULA under the clauses that pertain to those sorts of actions. Where are you seeing a loophole here? |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
551
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Roime wrote:No, they have already stated that they won't do that. If you are worried, turn the feature off.
Anyway, Goon whine is obviously not about Evemon.
Wow you're right it must be about all the sinister bots we use to keep the rest of the population of New Eden down. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
551
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quite understandable, and I think this was just an attempt to put legitimate users minds at ease without shooting themselves in the foot at the same time.
Well, that worked well.
Ranger 1 wrote:
This is also likely why the Crest API is such a priority for them, as it could provide a safe and approved (and controllable) alternative to cache scraping when done.
That's all well and good, and I look forward to using programs that take full advantage of these useful new features! However, in the meantime-- while these features don't exist-- I'd prefer not to be on the "people we could ban if we felt like it" list for using perfectly legitimate 3rd party tools. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
553
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roime wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:Roime wrote:No, they have already stated that they won't do that. If you are worried, turn the feature off.
Anyway, Goon whine is obviously not about Evemon.
Wow you're right it must be about all the sinister bots we use to keep the rest of the population of New Eden down. Why are you so worried then about your program? If it's harmless, then it is. Just like before.
Counter-point: if it was harmful, they can ban me for it. JUST LIKE BEFORE.
I have no idea why it was necessary for them to come out and say "any cache scraping is a bannable offense" when they could easily address botting without publishing a devblog announcing that scraping is bannable. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Tippia wrote:Remeber the EVE-Uni market bot that got someone banned a while back? People tried to defend that on the grounds that it was GÇ£only cache scrapingGÇ¥.
This change puts a solid slug through both knees of that argument. Right, and it was a terrible defense because the character's actual input commands were clearly being automated, which was the bannable part. That's the point, even though cache scraping certainly could be used to assist a botter in whatever they're doing, it's the botting part of what they do that's bannable. I think the cache scraping angle is just the root that can be grabbed onto, if you take my meaning. There are an infinite number of ways and software variations that can be created to make illegitimate use of that information (and tracking/documenting all of those ways would be literally a never ending process), however they all share cache scraping in common. It's the common handle that CCP can use (if needed) to get a grip on to deal with all of them.
People have brains.
Brains can be used to concoct and enact terrorist plots.
All people with brains should be considered in violation of anti-terror laws. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roime wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:
Counter-point: if it was harmful, they can ban me for it. JUST LIKE BEFORE.
I have no idea why it was necessary for them to come out and say "any cache scraping is a bannable offense" when they could easily address botting without publishing a devblog announcing that scraping is bannable.
I think you missed the part of the EULA considering cache scraping, which hasn't changed with this announcement. It's always been bannable.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734561&page=1#9 |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ereilian wrote:Quality input there Pel, thanks for that. seriously CCP makes a blanket announcement that affects nearly everyone who uses 3rd party software that is NOT in breach of the EULA and this is the qulaity of your input? How about ... "Hey guys, we ****** up, we dont really need to monitor cache scraping but it is an easy way to detect certain bots and .. well hell we cant prove you botted but if you access the cache like this you must be botting, but as we cant prove it we are gonna ban you for cache scrapping.".
Lol.
Hate the announcement content, not our funny CCP brosefs. |
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