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Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Steps to under(mine) the New Order:
Just some musings offered freely.
I should be clear that philosophically I find myself sympathetic to the New Order. Unfortunately, I also find myself philosophically aligned with mayhem. I also have a different arc of narrative I am pursuing so enacting what I am going to suggest is of no interest to me, even if I had the minimal resource needed. Finally, it should be noted that what I am going to suggest is in line with the implicit meta goals of the New Order while at the same time under(mining) their operations. If they object to the suggested actions or even try to spin them they will be participating in both a Heresy and Hypocrisy. The same is true if they do not care. The path of the true believer can be a thorny one.
There is contained within the New Order credo an inherent Heresy. The theology is based on that all actions should contain risk, presumably commensurate with reward. No place is Safe, nor should it be. The argument about their own risk associated with High Sec operations is CONCORD. They developed quite a few ingenious strategies for mitigating said risk, which is great. However, the business model itself contains no risk. It functions as a basic 'mob style' protection racket. If the miner pays their fee and maintains their license there is no risk to the New Order since in fact who the miner is mostly being protected from, in theory, is the New Order. I have seen no promises extracted, for instance, by miners that the New Order will protect them from anyone else, or even provide some actual benefit by escorting them into areas where the NPCs constitute an actual threat. Simply a negotiating error easily rectified.
This however should be the case since they are told that if they abide by the Code (remain actively at the keyboard, etc.) it will be safe for them to mine. This is what the New Order promises in essence, though it is also a contradiction of their basic theology. Based on their own theology this is not something they can or should promise unless they are willing to make it so to the best of their ability. Miners, it is a false promise. Not because they do not mean it, but because they are participating in a Heresy. In doing this they have also created a relatively rich market place for anyone who wishes to take advantage of it.
The Heresy The Heretical forces should have no identifiable (charismatic) single point of leadership. There should be no one I particular against whom to act.
The Heretical forces should consistently identify miners with New Order loyalty oaths in their bio's and target them relentlessly. This is easily done by simply going into a system and running profiles for their presence. Even if they are actually at their keyboards their license has probably lulled them to see extent. They have paid. They are safe. They just need to maintain the appearance of the Code in order to mine in peace. Often the reasoning behind having purchased the license is because it is cheaper than losing ships, unless they are also among the faithful of the New Order, which some are.
If carried out this simply and directly under(mines) the contract and authority of the New Order. Why would I pay for a license when I actually receive no benefit. The new order has created a targeted market of profitable miners for independent gank gangs via their business model that based on the philosophical underpinnings of the Code itself should be exploited.
This does not probably seem a good idea to miners who have purchased a license. Because a market has be created what I am suggesting is going to happen anyway, so you should prepare yourselves. Perhaps though it was an wise business decision for you, you have some suppressed irritation at feeling forced to but such a license and adhere to a Code you yourself did not and would not write? What can you do?
Once this begins to happen miners within the New Order should take several actions. They should demand and continue demand increased levels of security from the New Order, forcing the Knights to endure the same mind numbing sedation they themselves are 'forced' to endure by being at their keyboards. The miners should constantly spam all Knights with requests for this additional security, whether or not there is imminent danger, since according the Code there is always imminent danger. You have been treated as cowardly and spineless and you actions denigrated. Do not resist this. Act it out in the most flamboyant full blown ways you can imagine. Wheedle. Cry. Whine. Constantly. Demand voice comms and CONCORD like response times. Claim breach of contract when this does not happen. Become a customer base requiring service. Act out every assertion of entitlement ever leveled against you. Have fun doing it.
Part 2 to follow. Private sig. Do not read. |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Part 2
Additionally, miners not currently signed on should all sign on to the Code immediately and in great numbers, as their own profit models allow. These miners should additionally constantly spam nights with both real and false threats. If the Knights actually show up, the miners should tumble over themselves to thank them profusely and say how terribly frightened they are and could the Knight stick around for a bit until they are done mining? It is an incredibly dangerous world after all, as I have been so thoroughly persuaded during my glorious conversion and enlightenment.
It does not matter whether or not you are even actually mining or not. You might just be thinking about mining. For your business to be effective you clearly need to plan and this requires thinking ahead in terms of security. Flood every visible Knights email and chat with such immediate and future requests. Crush them under the weight of your neediness and ineptitude. Mine their tears as you force them to move to other game play styles themselves. Go to minerbump and flood the board with entitled helpless requests of neediness. Don't resist or complain about what they are doing. Complain insistently about what they are not doing.
If all these steps are taken, or even some of them, this will render having the fealty oath in the miners bio meaningless thereby removing the false illusion of protection heretically contained within the Code itself. It will massively increase the transactional The New Order can adapt to this of course, but not without operational and organizational cost, which also under(mines) their effectiveness.
Miners and independent Gankers do not resist them with false pride. Overwhelm them with false participation. They will not be able to distinguish reality from illusion.
This approach is based on the premise that the New Order is in fact enslaving miners without incurring the cost of maintaining their enslaved population. It is true that they are also 'liberating' them from a self imposed prison, but the actions of the Heresy will do that no less. In addition should the Knights actually begin to protect the miners under their licenses, then more active pewpew will occur between gank gangs, Knights, what have you.
Finally, do not organize yourselves. Do not become organizationally visible or coherent in any way. Create no single or identifiable point of operations or wealth for retaliation, Awoxing, etc. You will learn who you are in practice. You of the Heresy are dedicated only to mayhem and perhaps some bridling resentment toward the New Order. You already know who you are. For the most part increased mayhem will not require you to change what you are already doing.
Furthermore, I would encourage Knights to search their own souls and come to terms with the inherent Heresy of their code and take appropriate action as however their consciences might dictate. If taken seriously this will create a schism within your ranks between religious zealots who rationalize the heresy and those who seek to purify it. Consider playing both sides as the miners will soon not be able to distinguish in any case.
As I said. Personally I have no interest in doing any of this at all. None. I am simply offering it for consideration. It is likely to happen anyway, though perhaps not in exactly this form.
Private sig. Do not read. |

Old Fellow
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:Part 2
Additionally, miners not currently signed on should all sign on to the Code immediately and in great numbers, as their own profit models allow. These miners should additionally constantly spam nights with both real and false threats. If the Knights actually show up, the miners should tumble over themselves to thank them profusely and say how terribly frightened they are and could the Knight stick around for a bit until they are done mining? It is an incredibly dangerous world after all, as I have been so thoroughly persuaded during my glorious conversion and enlightenment.
It does not matter whether or not you are even actually mining or not. You might just be thinking about mining. For your business to be effective you clearly need to plan and this requires thinking ahead in terms of security. Flood every visible Knights email and chat with such immediate and future requests. Crush them under the weight of your neediness and ineptitude. Mine their tears as you force them to move to other game play styles themselves. Go to minerbump and flood the board with entitled helpless requests of neediness. Don't resist or complain about what they are doing. Complain insistently about what they are not doing.
If all these steps are taken, or even some of them, this will render having the fealty oath in the miners bio meaningless thereby removing the false illusion of protection heretically contained within the Code itself. It will massively increase the transactional The New Order can adapt to this of course, but not without operational and organizational cost, which also under(mines) their effectiveness.
Miners and independent Gankers do not resist them with false pride. Overwhelm them with false participation. They will not be able to distinguish reality from illusion.
This approach is based on the premise that the New Order is in fact enslaving miners without incurring the cost of maintaining their enslaved population. It is true that they are also 'liberating' them from a self imposed prison, but the actions of the Heresy will do that no less. In addition should the Knights actually begin to protect the miners under their licenses, then more active pewpew will occur between gank gangs, Knights, what have you.
Finally, do not organize yourselves. Do not become organizationally visible or coherent in any way. Create no single or identifiable point of operations or wealth for retaliation, Awoxing, etc. You will learn who you are in practice. You of the Heresy are dedicated only to mayhem and perhaps some bridling resentment toward the New Order. You already know who you are. For the most part increased mayhem will not require you to change what you are already doing.
Furthermore, I would encourage Knights to search their own souls and come to terms with the inherent Heresy of their code and take appropriate action as however their consciences might dictate. If taken seriously this will create a schism within your ranks between religious zealots who rationalize the heresy and those who seek to purify it. Consider playing both sides as the miners will soon not be able to distinguish in any case.
As I said. Personally I have no interest in doing any of this at all. None. I am simply offering it for consideration. It is likely to happen anyway, though perhaps not in exactly this form.
Please make a summary I will update this post when your wall of text becomes easier to read, I am old and my eyes hurt
|

Dave Stark
2675
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
tl;dr |

Ravnik
Choke-Hold Beacon Light Alliance
7075
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
beat me to it
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly.......... |

Lin Suizei
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah...
Good luck convincing some AFK miners to actually do something other than "not play the game" and "file petitions". Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
415
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
I like where this is going allready. More hisec drama = more entertainment for me! *popcorn* |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
tl:dr is taken as a given. Why type it?
I am not seeking to convince anyone of anything. Some form of what I am suggesting is going to occur in any case. Private sig. Do not read. |

Tiberius Murderhorne
CONTRATTO Tribal Band
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yawn..... Disclaimer : My posting does not always reflect my Corps views or my allience views.... Infact sometimes it does not even reflect my views! |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1016
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:I have seen no promises extracted, for instance, by miners that the New Order will protect them from anyone else, or even provide some actual benefit by escorting them into areas where the NPCs constitute an actual threat. Simply a negotiating error easily rectified.
This however should be the case since they are told that if they abide by the Code (remain actively at the keyboard, etc.) it will be safe for them to mine. This is what the New Order promises in essence, though it is also a contradiction of their basic theology. uhm
did you actually read the Code
no i didn't think so |

Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front New Creation Collective
295
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 11:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your whole strategy seems to be based on the false assumption that the New Order protects code-compliant miners from external threats, or that we claim to do so. This is not true - we encourage all third party gankers to ply their trade wherever and however they wish. We do not provide security - we merely enforce the code.
Also, a lot of words for somebody who says that he doesn't actually have any interest in carrying out this plan himself. Join the Revolutionary Front and liberate New Eden from it's stuff.
|

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have no interest at all in mining. I have read the Code. It does contain this Heresy and actually it does not matter since the strategy would effectively work anyway, even if it did not. I do not expect members of the New Order to like it or agree. Heck I don't even particularly like it. My interests lie elsewhere and can't be directly pursued as of yet in any case.
Oh... And regardless of what the Order think of the code, based on the posts most miners do it because they believe this. They believe it will save them ships and lower their costs. You can find ample evidence of this on minerbump and this forum. If they did not believe that, or it were simply not true (which is the actual case) why would the purchase a license and swear an oath, except in the case of true believers. Private sig. Do not read. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1016
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Supreme Protector of Halaima and Saviour of Highsec, James 315 wrote:Please note, however, that this service represents the sale of indulgences. Highsec miners who pay will not be bumped by me, but they will continue to be guilty of mining in highsec, and may suffer the consequences thereof (e.g. being suicide ganked by third parties). Miners may also risk losing their positive standings if they engage in severe violations of the New Halaima Code of Conduct (see below).
IN THE FIRST POST |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4145
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just mine somewhere else. Period. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |

Primary Me
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:My interests lie elsewhere and can't be directly pursued as of yet in any case. So, as usual, it's someone else that needs to do something. Anyone else, doesn't matter who really, as long as it's someone else.
|

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yes, it is good to make this very clear as the intent. It is not however the basis for the miners decision according to the documentation I have read. The strategy unfolds that.
In addition, for the sake of mayhem who cares? Render the fealty oath meaningless, by removing its presumed value from the lint of view of the user. Easy to do.
Your arguments are for the believers not the subjugated. I am sure they will be effective in that context.
For my own part, I am fully supportive of the New Order in its intent. Private sig. Do not read. |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Primary Me wrote:Shao Huang wrote:My interests lie elsewhere and can't be directly pursued as of yet in any case. So, as usual, it's someone else that needs to do something. Anyone else, doesn't matter who really, as long as it's someone else.
Nupe. I have my own endeavors. In addition to which, this is not 'doing nothing'. Please not the organizational nature of the strategy as well. I am not involved, but mostly any miner involved should be seen to be doing nothing while making outrageous and incessant demands on all channels of communication available. Different story for gankers wanting to capitalize on the targets swearing the fealty oath conveniently creates. I am vaguely considering some form of participation along those lines. But as I said, not really my interest. Or to be more specific I am more interests in something else. Private sig. Do not read. |

Lin Suizei
132
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:...I am not involved...
tl;dr someone else do it
Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |

Primary Me
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:Nupe. I have my own endeavors. In addition to which, this is not 'doing nothing'. Please not the organizational nature of the strategy as well. I am not involved, but mostly any miner involved should be seen to be doing nothing while making outrageous and incessant demands on all channels of communication available. Different story for gankers wanting to capitalize on the targets swearing the fealty oath conveniently creates. I am vaguely considering some form of participation along those lines. But as I said, not really my interest. Or to be more specific I am more interests in something else. Yep, still sounds like a whole lot of nothing. Long on words short on content.
|

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Primary Me wrote:Shao Huang wrote:Nupe. I have my own endeavors. In addition to which, this is not 'doing nothing'. Please not the organizational nature of the strategy as well. I am not involved, but mostly any miner involved should be seen to be doing nothing while making outrageous and incessant demands on all channels of communication available. Different story for gankers wanting to capitalize on the targets swearing the fealty oath conveniently creates. I am vaguely considering some form of participation along those lines. But as I said, not really my interest. Or to be more specific I am more interests in something else. Yep, still sounds like a whole lot of nothing. Long on words short on content.
Interestingly, to me at least, you have not commented on the strategy. Only attempted a not very effective ad hominem argument.
I am also surprised that New Order adherents do not embrace The Heresy since it is completely consistent with the philosophical underpinnings of their own endeavor in every way.
No idea whether you are such an adherent or not, but you can stop the ad hominem. It's not effective.
Instead, why won't the strategy work? Or how would you improve it? (Since you are unlikely to improve my degenerate character as seem to wish.)
Edit: (apologies for typos. I am on a mobile device atm.) Private sig. Do not read. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1018
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:Yes, it is good to make this very clear as the intent. It is not however the basis for the miners decision according to the documentation I have read. The strategy unfolds that.
In addition, for the sake of mayhem who cares? Render the fealty oath meaningless, by removing its presumed value from the lint of view of the user. Easy to do.
Your arguments are for the believers not the subjugated. I am sure they will be effective in that context.
For my own part, I am fully supportive of the New Order in its intent. no
all miners having paid their permits (or entered New Order territory) are asserting and are understood to have read, completely comprehended and agreed to all writing related to the permit
if they had not read or did not understand the Code or other articles they would not hold a valid permit despite the isk transfer
if they had read the Code and did not agree they would not have bought the permit
all permit holders are therefore true believers in the Code and James 315's New Order of Highsec |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Quote:Yes, it is good to make this very clear as the intent. It is not however the basis for the miners decision according to the documentation I have read. The strategy unfolds that.
In addition, for the sake of mayhem who cares? Render the fealty oath meaningless, by removing its presumed value from the lint of view of the user. Easy to do.
Your arguments are for the believers not the subjugated. I am sure they will be effective in that context.
For my own part, I am fully supportive of the New Order in its intent. no all miners having paid their permits (or entered New Order territory) are asserting and are understood to have read, completely comprehended and agreed to all writing related to the permit if they had not read or did not understand the Code or other articles they would not hold a valid permit despite the isk transfer if they had read the Code and did not agree they would not have bought the permit all permit holders are therefore true believers in the Code and James 315's New Order of Highsec
Truly, I understand this is the espoused reality. It is not however the lived one, according to the dialogs recorded and displayed. In any case it does not matter. You denigrate the miners, rightly or not. If they fully enact this, the sense of entitlement for instance, your espoused model simply will not matter.
You are arguing as a zealot. It's wonderful. What you are apparently not noticing is that such a strategy involves increased participation and game play at a variety of levels to amplify something that is going to happen over time anyway. You are forcing or attempting to force players to play a way they do not wish. Those that have either found they enjoy that or are suffering it should take full advantage of your wishes and offer. Those that are effected in a way that constitutes resistance or resentment should also use the in-game mechanisms to take full advantage of your offer. May you receive in abundance what you have requested. Private sig. Do not read. |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Old Fellow wrote: Please make a summary I will update this post when your wall of text becomes easier to read, I am old and my eyes hurt
It is likely the case that I am as old or older and it hurt my eyes to type. Apologies.
It is judo. By actually providing a rabid version of what is being demanded and acting on that along all channels of communications the miners can easily alter the game experience of the New Order, render the fealty oath meaningless, raise transactional costs, etc. thus preventing further converts, should they so wish. Doesn't even need to be organized in any centralized way. Shouldn't be in fact. Whether the miners acknowledge it or not they are in a war of cultural conquest. there are many ways to fight such a war. Not all rely on adopting the methods being used against you. In fact that is the least likely to work.
Additionally people should realize that having sworn and displaying an oath does not diminish risk, but actually increases it. This will be acted on simply because it is profitable to do so.
Some miners like this and the conversion. Yay. Some don't. Doesn't matter. Actions could be the same in either case and quite satisfying, should one be moved in that way.
This misses the amusing (to me) language of the Heresy, but is the essential thing itself. I hope this is helpful. Private sig. Do not read. |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1396
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Better plan than all the rhetoric and posturing and stuff...
1. learn how to fly a dessie 2. shoot back. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Better plan than all the rhetoric and posturing and stuff...
1. learn how to fly a dessie 2. shoot back.
Personally I agree. Others apparently do not share this view. What I am suggesting is highly active and fully in line with wonderfully grandiose rhetoric and posturing of the New Order itself. It just does not involve shooting back from a dessie for those that don't wish to and more of it for those who do. Private sig. Do not read. |

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
429
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.
Indeed. Private sig. Do not read. |

Davenchi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Where do these new order tools operate? I would love to set my 8 year old up in thier system and let them have a play date. Would be funny to watch both waste thier time.  |

Davenchi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them. Indeed.
This is most likely an jimmy alt anyhow. |

Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 13:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Davenchi wrote:Shao Huang wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them. Indeed. This is most likely an jimmy alt anyhow.
If you look at my posting history I feel that the sheer ignorance of it is likely to persuade you that not only am I not an alt, I am quite new to the EVErse altogether.
You can find the New Orders basis of operations more or less conveniently indicated on the maps section of minerbump. I think your 8 your old will have a fabulous time. Private sig. Do not read. |
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