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Xanos Blackpaw Inadeptus Mechanicus 14	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 976	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:08:00 - [2] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you ** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4? Standings Improvement Service** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Xanos Blackpaw Inadeptus Mechanicus 14	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote sabre906 wrote: Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4? Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 554	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:45:00 - [4] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: sabre906 wrote: Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4? Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid. So still boring if you are a smart player. My 4 year old son decided to "FIX" his tricycle by taking the wheels off. I said "what are you doing?" he said "I am fixing it." So I guess it depends on your definition of fix. The high number of stupid A.I. ships is the fix for them not being as smart as players. Strength in numbers. What you suggest would be no more of a "FIX" then what my son did to his tricycle. It is not broken, It does not need "FIXED"
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 55	Posted - 2013.04.19 17:49:00 - [5] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Look back at the threads around the time the new NPC AI was introduced. There were some dev posts indicating that this is the direction they're planning on going in. (Did a cursory glance and couldn't find them, but they're there.)
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 254	Posted - 2013.04.19 18:04:00 - [6] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Neither. How much new PvE content has been added to EVE in the past 5 years? A few new missions? A few new exploration sites? Incursions and wormholes? Missions and exploration are always going to be same as quests and farming mats for professions in other MMO's but they could use a little love regardless. I can't think of another decent MMO that doesn't at least update or add quests on a semi-regular basis. Incursions and wormholes were great additions and a blast when they came out, but content like that needs to get added a lot more regularly. CCP is still on the right track after the 'Greed is Good' fiasco so maybe once they get ships balanced they'll get some new PvE in the game, the new scanning content announcement for Odyssey maybe just that, but we'll see. Not today spaghetti.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 1363	Posted - 2013.04.19 18:17:00 - [7] - Quote They've said PVE isn't really going to get touched in the next year or so, so I wouldn't hold my breath. Of course, "fun" is subjective, and no two people will agree on what is or isn't fun. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 976	Posted - 2013.04.19 20:03:00 - [8] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: sabre906 wrote: Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you ** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4? Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid. Oh, so you mean noobs get to sell Plex to finance their game while vets still farm the improved rewards? Great plan there. That'll help with player retention. Standings Improvement Service** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band 623	Posted - 2013.04.19 20:45:00 - [9] - Quote part of the problem is immersion and believability another part is play style differentiation you look at the AI ship type, and what it does doesn't really make sense a kestrel has missile launchers .. why is the rat shooting at me with lasers, hybrids AND missiles the AI loadouts need to make more sense they need to follow the descriptions far better than they do currently a pve fit is normally based around active boosters a pvp fit is normaly based around a buffer tank pvp fits need to be made more like pve fits pve fits need to be made more like pvp fits currently Point, Web & Prop form eve's trinity of abilities if you try to break that trend, your laughed at, and informed you have a fail fit even when you have long range weapons fitted, your expected to also fit a short range web & point eve is full of ships that have specialised roles eve is full of players that fit ships to do all things CCP cant do anything about the people that play the game, they are stuck with them but they can change the way ships work when, if, ccp can work out how to do either, in a balanced and beneficial way, it should help make eve a better game (in my opinion)
hellcane Never Back Down 3	Posted - 2013.04.19 23:51:00 - [10] - Quote Let's look at the last two changes that attempted to make pve more than face roll. NPCs target drones - that went over well. TD - went over well also, even though there were only 1-2 missions that had "bad" TD What do you think these people will do when you make it so they might have to think harder than remembering triggers
Gimme more Cynos Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.04.20 01:32:00 - [11] - Quote Xanos Blackpaw wrote: Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that. So how to fix the boring combat? My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro. With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to. Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it? Great, the first 3 days I would like to enjoy warping 3 chars on the top of their heads.. and then I will be bored by easy missions not taking more than 5 minutes.. great Idea.. lolz. Give back LV 5 in Highsec, with LP rewards reduced to 20k, so I can have fun with my buds without feeling like Superman in pink pony land (as this is what Lv4 feels like in a BS-party).
Vizvig Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death 81	Posted - 2013.04.20 03:49:00 - [12] - Quote Really PVE task is make PLEX valuable. And you should hate PvE to force you buy PLEX. Because of this no funny PvE here, forever.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 6750	Posted - 2013.04.20 07:09:00 - [13] - Quote Heh, if you don't like doing PvE content, then don't do it, plain and simple. Also, speak for yourself. There's lot's of players who like doing PvE content. It seems like every couple of weeks, there's another PvP player posting a thread about how PvE is boring and broken and then suggests that it be turned into a PvP simulation. I like the current PvE content. The NPC's definitely could be balanced and brought in line with player ships, ie - EWAR, cap, weapons, etc but other than that, it's fine. DMC
Tauranon Weeesearch 154	Posted - 2013.04.20 07:41:00 - [14] - Quote hellcane wrote: Let's look at the last two changes that attempted to make pve more than face roll. NPCs target drones - that went over well. TD - went over well also, even though there were only 1-2 missions that had "bad" TD What do you think these people will do when you make it so they might have to think harder than remembering triggers its a one at a time thing, and to be honest, they don't have to do more to missions right now (inflation has seriously hurt the effective income of missions anyway), ie I'd be perfectly happy to carry a long point into exploration to stop overseers warping out, and that would make for far more fun in racing for loot and stealing cans.
Cyrus Doul e X i l e Initiative Mercenaries 6	Posted - 2013.04.20 19:44:00 - [15] - Quote Maybe get rid of Materials for War preparation storyline? It would be a little thing but I know i sure "love" having to go buy 8000 kernite in station with the agent every time. Started up mission alts cause bored and figured they might have fixed that after three years.
Oska Rus Solar Storm Insidious Empire 12	Posted - 2013.04.20 22:12:00 - [16] - Quote That suggestion is already implemented. In wormhole.
DSpite Culhach Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 83	Posted - 2013.04.21 10:13:00 - [17] - Quote As a variation, I'd prefer if the L1-L4 could be split among hull types, so basically you get missions that vary in difficulty 1-4 for frigs only, destroyer only etc etc to Battleships, technically having accelleration gates size lockouts. The L1 would be equivalent of an L2 now (L1's are not even hard even for training) with an L4 having L5+ difficulty, and needing a small fleet, that way we could have fun with all the hulls, and even get special module drops for the correct hull types every so often, and also, we get to fleet up in different hull types. * We already have size limitations mechanics in anomalies and acc gates. * Apparently mission difficulty scaling is some some sort of numbers based slider thingy and not individual missions messing around (I might be wrong here) and not manually placed everything. * Based on what happened with the new AI tweak, aggression and aggro distances also seem sliders, as ALL misions were effected. * Most drops seems on sliders, and the special drops seem to be manually placed "special NPC's", which would only appear at end mission anyway. * etc etc I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html
Matthew97 Pro Synergy Frozen Shipyards 159	Posted - 2013.04.21 11:16:00 - [18] - Quote Personally I'd like to see some sort of Dynamic content within missions that happen at random times such as: You kill a lot of Guristas ships in a series of missions, in another mission there could be a chance that a Guristas Commander (Or something similar) spawns with a defense fleet to try and take you down; it could be a high value BS or maybe contain a faction drop of some kind but it would have to be a very dangerous rat to warrant this extra reward. Maybe a mission specific dynamic content where if you take to long to do something, or kill rats to fast or just pure "random number generator style" reinforcements could spawn that aren't usually there, maybe they could also be ambushed by another pirate faction? I.e. Mercenaries also attack the Transports? Run level 4 missions? Don't want to salvage? Let us salvage for you, and then pay you for it! -áJoin our Channel: Pro Synergy Now open in Waskisen !
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2013.04.21 20:08:00 - [19] - Quote Cyrus Doul wrote: Maybe get rid of Materials for War preparation storyline? It would be a little thing but I know i sure "love" having to go buy 8000 kernite in station with the agent every time. Started up mission alts cause bored and figured they might have fixed that after three years. Actually these are less annoying than "carry extended indy worth of crap over 10 jumps".
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 386	Posted - 2013.04.21 23:46:00 - [20] - Quote Start by making the trigger random instead of set in stone. If a ship is suppose to call for backup when it die, make all the ship have a % chance of rtigerring that call. That way, you remove the "perfect" way of doing mission because you enver really know when enemy support will come in.
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 96	Posted - 2013.04.22 01:49:00 - [21] - Quote Here and there allied forces in missions would help a lot. - Two Capital ships fighting each other and we have to break the tie by destroying the enemys logistic ships. - Escort missions for VIP ships or a formation of slow flying bombers. - Let us tackle / web enemy ships in frigs while the allied npc fleet makes the damage or while a transport docks and boardingcrews do their dirty work - Reinforcements - Let us break through the support fleet of a carrier and then we have to light a cyno to bring "the fleet" in who takes care of the capital. As you see, it could also help a bit as "pvp tutorial". Most new players start their career by running some missions. They could learn concepts like tackling, cyno / hotdrops, E-War, etc by playing and not searching in forums or guides. And it would add some well needed atmosphere to the space fights. They feel (except for the graphics) a bit too "2003", sorry
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 982	Posted - 2013.04.22 02:02:00 - [22] - Quote Rovinia wrote: Here and there allied forces in missions would help a lot. - Two Capital ships fighting each other and we have to break the tie by destroying the enemys logistic ships. - Escort missions for VIP ships or a formation of slow flying bombers. - Let us tackle / web enemy ships in frigs while the allied npc fleet makes the damage or while a transport docks and boardingcrews do their dirty work - Reinforcements - Let us break through the support fleet of a carrier and then we have to light a cyno to bring "the fleet" in who takes care of the capital. As you see, it could also help a bit as "pvp tutorial". Most new players start their career by running some missions. They could learn concepts like tackling, cyno / hotdrops, E-War, etc by playing and not searching in forums or guides. And it would add some well needed atmosphere to the space fights. They feel (except for the graphics) a bit too "2003", sorry They should fire whoever added that rat drone aggro and hire you... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 441	Posted - 2013.04.22 05:42:00 - [23] - Quote You need to have a way for player to reduce completion times (having, say, escort mission that can only be done in fixed time due to NPCs moving at fixed speed sounds bad as essential part of the missioning does not depends on player in this case), but I'm afraid that then it'll just boil down to "complete this mission in a trivial way while fitting a mod we told you to fit", be it tackle, cyno or whatever else. It won't be anything great but just annoyance. I'm afraid that industrialized PvE is beyond fixing no matter the game. I'd rather rely on other aspects of the game for my fun, leaving PvE as just means to an end. You can remake SoE arc into something like this though, currently it has too much stupid "fly to a can, pick up stuff, go back" missions. After all, isn't it supposed to be showcase of game features?
Neutrality17 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.04.22 13:18:00 - [24] - Quote I signed in just too quote this. Rovinia wrote: Here and there allied forces in missions would help a lot. - Two Capital ships fighting each other and we have to break the tie by destroying the enemys logistic ships. - Escort missions for VIP ships or a formation of slow flying bombers. - Let us tackle / web enemy ships in frigs while the allied npc fleet makes the damage or while a transport docks and boardingcrews do their dirty work - Reinforcements - Let us break through the support fleet of a carrier and then we have to light a cyno to bring "the fleet" in who takes care of the capital. As you see, it could also help a bit as "pvp tutorial". Most new players start their career by running some missions. They could learn concepts like tackling, cyno / hotdrops, E-War, etc by playing and not searching in forums or guides. And it would add some well needed atmosphere to the space fights. They feel (except for the graphics) a bit too "2003", sorry And to add: When it comes to PvE, while a completely different genre of gaming, i think Left For Dead (the first one) is the best example of dynamic PvE content. Even just simply randomizing aspects of the missions could be a beautiful thing. And i understand people play Eve for the people, at least thats why i played for the years i have, but making what outsiders might consider to be Eve's "quest" system would really help those who are more on the fence enjoy the experience of Eve. Where Debris and Dust find LoveFly Safe, Fly Strong, Fly TogetherNew Trinity Scar
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 96	Posted - 2013.04.22 13:56:00 - [25] - Quote Ok, perhaps you're right with that Barrock, you can't completly revamp pve in a 10 year old game. Most mission runners have made themselfe confortable with the current system, perhaps exactly because its possible to do it half-afk and watch a movie while doing it. Most of them don't run missions to have fun, they do it to earn money for financing whatever fun they want to have in eve. But most new players don't come to the game with this attitude. They want to play a game, have some nice space fights, some fun. And they don't allready know the whole depth of eve and all the other things you can do. So they get borred quickly and quit eve before they have seen it's full potential. Thats a great pity. So at least the Level 1 - 2 missions could have some of these to ease the learning curve and give some moments of astonishment... "Woah, there are ships that big in here?" for example For level 4's, i don't want the other missions out of the game, but it would give a bit variety to the mission pool from time to time. If you really don't like them, click "decline" and take the next "worlds collide". Or revamp the faction missions that show up after all X missions. It would surely make more fun than getting 9600 Kernite from Station 1 to Station 2.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 442	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:14:00 - [26] - Quote One thing I forgot to mention and which is relevant (especially since we are talking about likes of Director AI). Unlike most MMO content known to me (and unlike L4D matches), EVE require much more effort during preparation phase than during completion phase. If you don't bring right stuff, nothing really that you can do. That creates some serious problems with randomized content.
Frostys Virpio Lame Corp Name 387	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:35:00 - [27] - Quote Barrogh Habalu wrote: One thing I forgot to mention and which is relevant (especially since we are talking about likes of Director AI). Unlike most MMO content known to me (and unlike L4D matches), EVE require much more effort during preparation phase than during completion phase. If you don't bring right stuff, nothing really that you can do. That creates some serious problems with randomized content. Randomizing the triggers on a mission won't amke your ship **** unless you were sporting a crazy tailor made fit to abuse a hole in the mission. If you get a decent fit of the right ship class, you will still ahve the right resist and damage type to get through it. It jsut might take longer if the first frig you pop spawn the 3 BS insetad of spawning on the very last ship you kill because you knew exactly wich one would call for backup. Your longer preparation is only long the first time. After that, your ship is fit to do the job over and over again. Your next preparation is your next shipment of ammo and if you plana head, it could take a while before you need more.
sabre906 Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice 984	Posted - 2013.04.22 18:34:00 - [28] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Barrogh Habalu wrote: One thing I forgot to mention and which is relevant (especially since we are talking about likes of Director AI). Unlike most MMO content known to me (and unlike L4D matches), EVE require much more effort during preparation phase than during completion phase. If you don't bring right stuff, nothing really that you can do. That creates some serious problems with randomized content. Randomizing the triggers on a mission won't amke your ship ** unless you were sporting a crazy tailor made fit to abuse a hole in the mission. If you get a decent fit of the right ship class, you will still ahve the right resist and damage type to get through it. It jsut might take longer if the first frig you pop spawn the 3 BS insetad of spawning on the very last ship you kill because you knew exactly wich one would call for backup. Your longer preparation is only long the first time. After that, your ship is fit to do the job over and over again. Your next preparation is your next shipment of ammo and if you plana head, it could take a while before you need more. Nerf missions isn't the same as making missions more interesting. Randomizing triggers = more tank, longer grind, that's it. Just like Scarlet's randomized rats = fit omni. It makes pve more grindy and tedious, nothing more. As an additional problem, noobs with lower sp pop to rats more easily. You need to take a look at Rovinia's post. These are the kind of ideas that add variety. They don't nerf. Nerf is neither necessary nor desirable. Standings Improvement Service** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
CMD Ishikawa Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2013.04.22 21:34:00 - [29] - Quote Rovinia wrote: Here and there allied forces in missions would help a lot. - Two Capital ships fighting each other and we have to break the tie by destroying the enemys logistic ships. - Escort missions for VIP ships or a formation of slow flying bombers. - Let us tackle / web enemy ships in frigs while the allied npc fleet makes the damage or while a transport docks and boardingcrews do their dirty work - Reinforcements - Let us break through the support fleet of a carrier and then we have to light a cyno to bring "the fleet" in who takes care of the capital. As you see, it could also help a bit as "pvp tutorial". Most new players start their career by running some missions. They could learn concepts like tackling, cyno / hotdrops, E-War, etc by playing and not searching in forums or guides. And it would add some well needed atmosphere to the space fights. They feel (except for the graphics) a bit too "2003", sorry Some really nice ideas here...!!! Would be awesome to run missions like these...!!!
Litair Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:39:00 - [30] - Quote I think the problem is that combat in EVE is just essentially extremely boring. What makes it enjoyable in for instance PvP is all the surrounding layers. The long hunt for a potential victim.. never knowing what you might encounter.. the infantile joy of ruining other people's day.. the alluring thought of finding some really awesome and valuable module. I believe the main thing that gets your blood pumping in PvP is the major risk factor. It's always possible to end up in a situation where you'll lose your terribly expensive ship, which makes it a joy whenever you see the battle going in your favor. An entirely different thing is massive fleet battles, but I really don't think it's the orbiting while having your turrets turned on that makes you totally excited - it's rather the immense scale of battle, with people shouting in their mics and everything being in chaos. The sight of a much hated goonswarm titan blowing up. It's all great fun. So now if you take away all of those things, we are left with what we know as PvE in EVE. There isn't any hunt or random encounters that'll leave you at great risk of blowing up (unless you're quite new, of course). There isn't the same tingling sensation in your pants when you pwn and trash talk NPCs and there just generally isn't any risk to it, so you don't get the adrenaline pumping and thus you have the mental capacity to notice how boring and quite monotone it actually is. The inherit problem is of course that in order to fuel the incredibly risk driven PvP, where you due to that very nature may lose everything without earning anything, there has to be some more or less risk free fallback so people can build up their ISK reserves again. Otherwise people would just have to quit the game.. which wouldn't make any sense. Rovinia's fabled ideas would certainly be a step in the right direction though.

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