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Darker Stranger Plague. 0	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:23:00 - [1] - Quote All of the C4 hatred aside (get a C3 or a C5, yes I've heard it), what are they best ways to run Sites in a C4 ASIDE from the Tengu? I'd like to understand what it takes to run them with an armor fleet: EHP, Shiptypes, Resists, Active/RR/Logi, everything. I've tried to do a lot of research, but most of what I've found is very, very old. Can anyone possibly help with this side of Eve?
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1671	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:32:00 - [2] - Quote you should build 5 phoenix dreads (yeah you need 5) any use those. Don't siege them, put a capital shield transfer in that last high for spider tank. EDIT: sorry you mentioned armour fleet so in that case armour tank the phoenixes and put a remote armour rep in the last high, not a shield transfer.
Godfrey Silvarna Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light 77	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote Spider tanking battleships work fine.
Oska Rus Solar Storm Insidious Empire 13	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:59:00 - [4] - Quote Godfrey Silvarna wrote: Spider tanking battleships work fine. how would those battleship look? I could not be able to find any valud BS fleet setup. (smaller tahn 6 members or so.)
Slaveofjita School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.04.22 23:32:00 - [5] - Quote should only need 4ish(maybe 3?) for most of the c4 stuff, doubt you can do the magno/radars with only 4-3 bs though. 2invuln,1em,1therm hardeners,1large shield extender,1damage control. should have enough resists/buffer, then fit 1 large or 2 medium deadspace shield transporters. some power relays and capacitor control rigs and you should be set. you can probably find some funny faction/maurader battlesship(with logi maybe) combos as well.
Garresh Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2013.04.22 23:51:00 - [6] - Quote Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious. This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 240	Posted - 2013.04.23 00:44:00 - [7] - Quote I know a few people run them with a vargur/basi pair. Garresh wrote: Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious. Its mostly due to them often having poor chains for PVP or logistics use and that as a gross generalisation most people are better off either running C3s or C5s a few exceptions aside.
Garresh Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2013.04.23 00:49:00 - [8] - Quote Rroff wrote: I know a few people run them with a vargur/basi pair. Garresh wrote: Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious. Its mostly due to them often having poor chains for PVP or logistics use and that as a gross generalisation most people are better off either running C3s or C5s a few exceptions aside. ...So it's the lowsec of w-space. Sounds like home to me. This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1674	Posted - 2013.04.23 01:11:00 - [9] - Quote Garresh wrote: Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious. The reason is that to run PVE in C4s you need exactly the same kinds of fleet setups as for running C5 sites (not talking about caps) and youre making far less ISK. even if you theoretically want to run C4 sites for isk, you want a c4 static, not to live in one. For PVP C4s have horrible chains, annoying to collapse statics due to no caps and no chance of direct kspace connections for null/ls roams. in summary, there's no point living in one for PVE and the PVP options from one are the worst anywhere in WHs.
Van Ketris Elusive Dilemma 5	Posted - 2013.04.23 02:20:00 - [10] - Quote You can run c4's with an RR tengu/legion with boosts, or a hybrid, local rep with RR duo. You basically need RR to combat the neuts, around 600-800 dps to not give them enough time to start neuting one ship while shooting another. They need to be able to hit as far as you can, up to about 80k. 40-60k is ideal. The dps tanked number is about 1200-1400, but of course this is based on you also having an AB/cruiser hull and a way to combat neuts, such as RR from a different ship. They start out neuting and dps'ing the same ship 95% of the time, so you can kill them before they start rotating. These are the numbers and stats I would have wanted to hear when I had this same question myself. With these stats you can do the ANOMS, not radar/mag. Radar/mag are when it gets more crazy, and are what most people are referencing. But you still make more overall isk grinding c4 anoms, such as barracks, than you would in c3. And you can do it with 1-2 ships and a booster. I ran them with 600mil isk tengu's...you can pimp out a tengu to solo, but that's not necessary for me.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 02:27:00 - [11] - Quote c4 armor or shield can be run with 2 domis & logi. the mag/radar site with 4 safeguards needs 2 logi though. 70% resists and 60k ehp is decent enough. know the triggers or die in flames edit: getting stuff in and out is a pita. currently running a c4>c4>c5>c5>c1>kspace fun times. so, because of that, seems like no one who actually lives in a c4 pvp's. all pvp i've seen are from the c2's that static into c4.
Garresh Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 119	Posted - 2013.04.23 07:10:00 - [12] - Quote Wow...c4 really does sound like lowsec. Jesus Christ that's empty... This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 13:28:00 - [13] - Quote You can run anything in a C4 with 2 pimped Rattlesnakes, and 3 mildly pimped snakes make it a breeze. Protip: Use 3 deadspace medium RR's instead of two large meta. Protip 2: Get one with a C1-3 static and enjoy the pvp stuffs/ease of k-space connections also. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but C4's are hiddens gems for smaller corps. Edit: I mean yes, C4's are terrible don't live in one...
Lenier Chenal Offensive Upholder 43	Posted - 2013.04.23 14:29:00 - [14] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: Shitfit This is terrible. Don't do it this way. [Rattlesnake, Correct C4] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Large Energy Transfer Array II Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II Hobgoblin II x10 Warrior II x6 Vespa EC-600 x5 Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5 Use 2-3 of these instead.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 14:55:00 - [15] - Quote Lenier Chenal wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: Shitfit This is terrible. Don't do it this way. [Rattlesnake, Correct C4] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Large Energy Transfer Array II Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II Hobgoblin II x10 Warrior II x6 Vespa EC-600 x5 Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5 Use 2-3 of these instead. Not even close to enough rep for 2 snakes, and I have my doubts about your cap life. I would be mildly surprised if you run noms with 2 of those without crapping your pants continuously. And forget about the tough sites. You do have nice drone range, but way more than is necessary. I'll stick with our fit. Edit: also if you're running with two people and neither of you have a probe out, have fun getting ganked by 20 t3's from a C5.
Tashima Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:07:00 - [16] - Quote You do need a probe, but generating cap via bounce is superior to trying to get it cap stable by itself. Wasting 4 slots and all of the rigs for this alone is bad. You have high-slots, use them. I say go with the second fit posted.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:10:00 - [17] - Quote even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that?
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:11:00 - [18] - Quote Tashima wrote: You do need a probe, but generating cap via bounce is superior to trying to get it cap stable by itself. Wasting 4 slots and all of the rigs for this alone is bad. You have high-slots, use them. I say go with the second fit posted. Still doesn't rep enough. But whatever, I'm not gonna sit and argue about, fit works fine for us, people can use whatever they wanna use.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:12:00 - [19] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that? What's ridiculously expensive? The medium reps were 25m apiece, so 3/4 of one nom. Also, are you insinuating you wouldn't be scanning if you had a less expensive fit? This I don't understand.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:16:00 - [20] - Quote double rattlesnakes with faction & deadspace mods.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:19:00 - [21] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: double rattlesnakes with faction & deadspace mods. Well, if you want to get technical, I'm pretty sure that fit would require 3 Snakes to run almost everything. My fit requires 2. As posted, his fit is 50m more expensive than mine. You do the math.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:22:00 - [22] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: Britta Nolen wrote: even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that? What's ridiculously expensive? The medium reps were 25m apiece, so 3/4 of one nom. Also, are you insinuating you wouldn't be scanning if you had a less expensive fit? This I don't understand. Honestly, with the cheap fits and ships I use with insurance, I don't lose more than 250m to a gank. So 1.5b plus flying arse out in the wind or 400m with just as much efficiency for sites.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:24:00 - [23] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: Britta Nolen wrote: even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that? What's ridiculously expensive? The medium reps were 25m apiece, so 3/4 of one nom. Also, are you insinuating you wouldn't be scanning if you had a less expensive fit? This I don't understand. Honestly, with the cheap fits and ships I use with insurance, I don't lose more than 250m to a gank. Wow, how do you run C4 noms in 2 x 250m ship? This I need to know.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:26:00 - [24] - Quote I use 3.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:27:00 - [25] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: I use 3. 3 what.
Saheed Cha'chris'ra Krautz WH Exploration and Production 0	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:30:00 - [26] - Quote If i would like to fly C4-Sites with Amarr-Ships, what could be a nice setup? Guardians + Abaddons? Something with RR? Legions with i dont know? Thanks for your ideas I am new to wormholes.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:30:00 - [27] - Quote 2 domis & logi works every site except the 4 safeguard mag/radar. Edit: 2 armor domis work also but are way too slow. i think maybe like 2 frontier barracks an hour. The way i run, I can punch through 5 an hour. 6-7 with magnetar bonus.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:34:00 - [28] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: 2 domis & logi works every site except the 4 safeguard mag/radar. Can post Domi fit?
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:36:00 - [29] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: Britta Nolen wrote: 2 domis & logi works every site except the 4 safeguard mag/radar. Can post Domi fit? Sorry but your gonna have to figure it out. Took me a while to get down efficiently. All T2, no pimp at all. Even the rigs are dirt cheap.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:38:00 - [30] - Quote Britta Nolen wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: Britta Nolen wrote: 2 domis & logi works every site except the 4 safeguard mag/radar. Can post Domi fit? Sorry but your gonna have to figure it out. Took me a while to get down efficiently. All T2, no pimp at all. Even the rigs are dirt cheap. Lol, yaaaa that's what I thought. o7m8
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 15:42:00 - [31] - Quote Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote: If i would like to fly C4-Sites with Amarr-Ships, what could be a nice setup? Guardians + Abaddons? Something with RR? Legions with i dont know? Thanks for your ideas I am new to wormholes. I'm no expert: You're gonna need RR You're gonna need 2-3 ships Most spawns are over 90km away to start. That should get the ball rolling for you.
Tinna Benuse Abyss Jumpers DeathIaw. 2	Posted - 2013.04.23 16:43:00 - [32] - Quote If you will share the C4 with 3 or more people build a carrier like Archon (Triage is not needed) and any other BS that you can put a lot of DPS. If you plan to go to another WHs C4 or higher, domis can do miracles. I already tried 2 domis navy (shield and armor) with a command ship and is possible to beat that 4 Safeguards with about 700dps each.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 240	Posted - 2013.04.23 18:15:00 - [33] - Quote Tinna Benuse wrote: If you will share the C4 with 3 or more people build a carrier like Archon (Triage is not needed) and any other BS that you can put a lot of DPS. Wouldn't build a carrier in a C4 for PVE purposes (even for POS defence its questionable but does give you the upper hand when hostiles can't get caps in easily). If you've got 3 or more people with reasonable skills especially if they have more than 1 account each and are talking capitals then a C5 is going to be way better ISK. Also I'd always triage fit a carrier unless your running lots of them spider repping - non-triage carrier and a small BS compliment getting jumped in site by a small to medium sized T3 gang = almost definitely dead, triage carrier + small BS compliment can put up one **** of a fight.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1313	Posted - 2013.04.23 21:17:00 - [34] - Quote Here, to make it easier, the hardest anom will require a max tank of about 1400dps. That is the Frontier Barracks, and its only on the second wave with 4 upholders. Depending on how fast you can drop one will determine how long you need that much tank. Outside of that, the only sites that need more tank are the tougher two mag/radar, which will max around 2000dps on the final wave. As far as Britta's fit, just keep an eye on her Corp, I'd bet it will show up eventually.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.23 22:03:00 - [35] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Here, to make it easier, the hardest anom will require a max tank of about 1400dps. That is the Frontier Barracks, and its only on the second wave with 4 upholders. Depending on how fast you can drop one will determine how long you need that much tank. Outside of that, the only sites that need more tank are the tougher two mag/radar, which will max around 2000dps on the final wave. As far as Britta's fit, just keep an eye on her Corp, I'd bet it will show up eventually. Considering it appears they've only been in a C4 for about two weeks and have already lost a bunch of ships/pods, I'm probably not going to have to wait very long to see this phantom fit.
Garresh Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 120	Posted - 2013.04.24 00:15:00 - [36] - Quote Well this thread is now a pissing contest. I can't verify first hand but I have read from other sources that 2 domi + logo can do c4s just fine. I might do some EFT warrioring later. This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Joshua Lorne The Night Crew The Night Crew Alliance 18	Posted - 2013.04.24 01:42:00 - [37] - Quote I run C4's myself with just 1 Tengu. Many I know do the same. It's not hard. Tengus, Vargurs and Rattlesnakes can all solo C4 sites without breaking a sweat if you fit them proper. Just don't try it in a Mag or Radar. And no, I do not share my fit to strangers
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.24 02:41:00 - [38] - Quote Joshua Lorne wrote: I run C4's myself with just 1 Tengu. Many I know do the same. It's not hard. Tengus, Vargurs and Rattlesnakes can all solo C4 sites without breaking a sweat if you fit them proper. Just don't try it in a Mag or Radar. And no, I do not share my fit to strangers Have fun with your eventual 4b isk lossmail.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1313	Posted - 2013.04.24 02:59:00 - [39] - Quote Garresh wrote: Well this thread is now a pissing contest. I can't verify first hand but I have read from other sources that 2 domi + logo can do c4s just fine. I might do some EFT warrioring later. Yes that can work. The only issue IMO in this thread was the claim that 2 domi's and a logi can crank out 6 C4 sites an hour. Unless you are doing all Integrated Terminus maybe, but they are crap. Rex Aparte wrote: Joshua Lorne wrote: I run C4's myself with just 1 Tengu. Many I know do the same. It's not hard. Tengus, Vargurs and Rattlesnakes can all solo C4 sites without breaking a sweat if you fit them proper. Just don't try it in a Mag or Radar. And no, I do not share my fit to strangers Have fun with your eventual 4b isk lossmail. It doesn't take 4bil to make a C4 soloable Tengu. That being said its still gonna be a slow grind, what would probably be better served soloing C3's
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.24 04:33:00 - [40] - Quote I said 5 in regular and 6-7 in magnetar. ALL FRONTIER BARRACKS. Its not my fault you can't figure out how to kill that site in less than 12 minutes.
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.24 04:51:00 - [41] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: Nevermind. /thread for me >mfw you can't spend literally 3 minutes in eft making the fits he said. Probably something along the lines of: Two domis: [Dominix, C4] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Large Egress Port Maximizer I Large Egress Port Maximizer I Garde II x5 And a basi: [Basilisk, C4] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II EM Ward Field II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Domis tank 1677, basi tanks 1857, all cap stable, all use cap xfers so who cares about neuting, literally so many ***** cap xfers it's dumb. Domi's do 800dps. I'll never do C4's so I have no idea if that's good or not for them. Also these fits look so bad, god the domi uses almost no powergrid. They all have like 50k ehp so they won't die w/e. Don't even need tengu links (>mfw it's 2013 and you don't have them though...) Figure it out bro, not like this ** is hard. Edit: You can make these tank more than 2000dps (cited as what you need for mag/radars (?)) probably by just messing with the rigs on both setups (change them to resist rigs), and then swapping the basi's logi mods to meta 4 as needed.
Gal'o Sengen State War Academy Caldari State 97	Posted - 2013.04.24 08:03:00 - [42] - Quote So, after three pages of stupidity and pissing contests, a grand total of zero armour fits has been posted. @OP A Paladin/Kronos/Vindicator with a pocket Logi can handle C4 anoms fine with minimal pimp. I imagine a couple of Spider tanking Tempest Fleet Issues would work too.
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.24 10:45:00 - [43] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: Nevermind. /thread for me >mfw you can't spend literally 3 minutes in eft making the fits he said. Probably something along the lines of: stuff. Everyone missed the point. I wasn't actually looking for a Domi fit, I KNOW you can run C4 sites that way. I felt that the person posting stuff had no clue what they were talking about. We run with Snakes, always have, always will, I do not want a Domi fit. I wanted to see if that person actually knew or was talking out of their ass, which should've been pretty clear in the thread. Then after a while I realized I didn't care, the thread had become a pissing contest as was stated - and I was a part of it - and decided to get on with my life. /thread for me again.
Tashima Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety 1	Posted - 2013.04.24 11:20:00 - [44] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: /thread for me again. you keep saying that...
Rex Aparte The Scope Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.04.24 13:29:00 - [45] - Quote Tashima wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: /thread for me again. you keep saying that... Ohhh no, I'm not falling for that old tri... dammit.
Ilaister Task Force Proteus 4	Posted - 2013.04.24 18:01:00 - [46] - Quote I think people struggle with C4 fleet comps because there are so many ways to do it. Stats posted so far are - in the main - accurate, EFT some fits, RR or Logi, which will tank and DPS the numbers OPs made clear and profit. Still not a vast ISK/hr difference between the same numbers ganging up in C3s however. Anomaly-wise.
Joshua Lorne The Night Crew The Night Crew Alliance 18	Posted - 2013.04.25 03:40:00 - [47] - Quote Rex Aparte wrote: Joshua Lorne wrote: I run C4's myself with just 1 Tengu. Many I know do the same. It's not hard. Tengus, Vargurs and Rattlesnakes can all solo C4 sites without breaking a sweat if you fit them proper. Just don't try it in a Mag or Radar. And no, I do not share my fit to strangers Have fun with your eventual 4b isk lossmail. doesn't cost near that, plus been running that fit over a year and never lost one. Pays for itself in a day. Besides, I'm a bonafide C4 neck beard. Someone jumps me in a C4 site, I just gotta bust out my banjo and they run for the hills
Bloody Wench 314	Posted - 2013.04.25 08:08:00 - [48] - Quote How long do you plan on staying? After you leave are you leaving an alt in there so you can come back in 6 months or whenever? If you plan on staying for an extended period (6 months or more) Build a carrier. Fit remote armour reps. Flavour with buffered DPS ships to taste. When you get bored and want to leave, park a carrier sitting alt in it, and leave it there. Then you have the option of going back at a later stage and you already have the carrier ready to go. It might pay to leave a scanning alt in there too. Carriers add substantial (overwhelming for a C4) Logi support and very good DPS too. They are about the same cost wise as a single pimped Tengu or some such, and they completely solve your RR concerns. That's my input for you.
Doctor Walter Nardley Fain Interstellar Industrial Exploitation Cabal of Reputable and Awesome People 0	Posted - 2013.04.29 19:59:00 - [49] - Quote Living in a C4 we run the bigger sites with a pair of logi's (guardians or oneiros's) and 2-3 rail hyperions because the rats spawn so far away. For smaller sites that are mainly cruisers, AHAC's or t3's work great. The fits are pretty straightforward, omni resists and just enough buffer to give the logi's enough reaction time. We haven't had any problems with any of the C4 sites with this setup.
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 131	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:44:00 - [50] - Quote Van Ketris wrote: You can run c4's with an RR tengu/legion with boosts, or a hybrid, local rep with RR duo. What would be the advantage to using RR tengu/legion as opposed to two tengus?
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1343	Posted - 2013.05.07 15:49:00 - [51] - Quote Tinu Moorhsum wrote: Van Ketris wrote: You can run c4's with an RR tengu/legion with boosts, or a hybrid, local rep with RR duo. What would be the advantage to using RR tengu/legion as opposed to two tengus? In order to get a local rep good enough for the harder DPS Anoms, you pretty much have to build around something like a Pith X-type large SB. And some sites will neut you out, so in those cases having the others being able to RR you while getting neuted helps a ton. Our RR Tengu fits come in ~450mil. My dual box setup Tengus come in around 1.4bil.
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 131	Posted - 2013.05.08 10:06:00 - [52] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: In order to get a local rep good enough for the harder DPS Anoms, you pretty much have to build around something like a Pith X-type large SB. And some sites will neut you out, so in those cases having the others being able to RR you while getting neuted helps a ton. Our RR Tengu fits come in ~450mil. My dual box setup Tengus come in around 1.4bil. Yes, I fully understood that part. I just thought that guy was suggesting using a tengu/legion pair instead of two tengus. I didn't see the logic in that.
Josilin du Guesclin University of Caille Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:04:00 - [53] - Quote Two guardians (three if you're worried someone will disconnect, but with three logis one can be an Augoror), and at least two DPS (the more you have, the faster things go) with combat BC or equivalent DPS and tank (i.e BCs, command ships, BSs, T3s). Omni resists at 70%+. That seems to be about it for the minimum. For a shield fleet swap basilisks and ospreys for the Amarr logi. The logi should be fitted with two cap transfers, and as much armour reps as will fit. They will not be even a little bit cap stable without cross-feeding each other, but one each way should be fine, leaving each one with a cap transfer for anyone who is neuted (and for battleships running MWDs). Nobody else needs remote cap or reppers in their highs, so they're free to carry nothing but tank 'n' gank.
Tsukihi Phoenix Hunter Heavy Industries 0	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:32:00 - [54] - Quote Lenier Chenal wrote: Rex Aparte wrote: Shitfit Soon to be dead shitfit. Rex's is the way to go. 2 of those snakes can duo the hardest nom (~ 1450 dps on 2nd spawn), and can duo the easier mag/radars with proper OH'ing. admittedly, they're not exactly the fastest thing, but they get the job done. Your cap life is awful, the single LETA won't be enough to keep the RR going even if it's receiving cap from another snake, while capping and repping the other snake. you'll be neuted out (those damn safeguards...) and held on zero cap because your partner can't sustain the rep or leta either. ...honestly the easiest way is to just build a damn carrier. it's good training for c5's anyways.
Karig'Ano Keikira State War Academy Caldari State 46	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:44:00 - [55] - Quote I did some EFT warrioring and wh running/testing on this one, got following results: -> general fitting idea is as much resistances as possible passive (no active hardeners), cca 60k+ eHP and at least one (medium) rep (cheap deadspace ones are good and cheap) : theoretically active hardeners should work, but deactivated hardeners + sleeper battleships in c4 make up for bad company, imo better be safe then sorry *: always fit damage control imo; it takes negligable cap and has long cycle, so deactivation from neuting is kinda low chance - rr tengus are baseline (well... no need to explain these I guess); tried and tested it in c3 with that shield res penalty effect and worked really well (2 tengus work, I think 3 (2 if pimped) must work in c4 (anoms), but haven't test it yet) -> do not put active tank + rr + active hardeners on your tengus, things will go to hell - gilas actually work (tested as well); rr seems to attract sleepers like flies so the don't tend to switch to drones; sentry gila actually puts out quite good dps on good range, but lacks rr bonus and has somewhat lower resistances then tengu, but is label it as quite useful - shield tanked proteus does work, tried and tested it; while not primary dps, it can fit bonused tractor beams, salvagers and bonused probe launcher along with ok dps from sentries and decent tank (gila level); great support ship imo. Of course would work better with armor fleet, but does in shield fleet - drake would work as cheap man's tengu, performance is well... as cheap man's tengu - low dps, low range, decent tank; would not recommend though - I wouldn't recommend nagas - rather poor tank, you have to remove turret to put rr, larger sig then cruiser-size ships, cap dependent guns as for battleships: -> navy scorpion is perfect beast for this imo; cost is bearable, can pack tremendous passive tank + rep capabilies + decent damage with cruises (will get much better after odyssey) -> raven can be usable as cheap option (will get better tank / dps after odyssey) -> if you have ISK, skills and will to try it, CNR and golem should both make great platforms for such playstyle (CNR for massive tank / gank + rep, golem for added ability to tractor / salvage on the run and ability to field multiple reps) I am focused on caldary / shields, so cannot recommend any armor setup, but I guess same would apply: get cca 70% + resistances (no cap use ideally) - the more the better, cca 60k+ ehp (I would aim for 80-100k on battleships, just to be sure), put 1-2 reps in high and it should work if you have 3+ ships few notes: -> personally I would avoid laser ships unless you have guardians for energy transfer; if your ships are not fireing 30-50% of time due to neuting, it becomes annoying -> aim for 80 km combat range, ideally up to 100 km; 60 km will make you chase after sleepers and that sucks (one of reasons why drake is suboptimal) -> sleeper damage likes to come in spikes; their battleships have quite nasty volley, so don't ignore eHP on your ships, especially if you don't have guardians who prelock everyone and especially if you use armor fleet as reps work on end of cycle; in c4 they won't volley for 50k, but if they get angry and you get crit (or two) from 3 battleship wave, you can expect up to 20-30k volley fo cca 1200 dps; count in time to whine to be heard, lock time, current rep cycle finishing, new rep cycle finishing and bit of bad luck and you can take 50-60k damage before reps kick in properly of course, 2 guardians (basilisks in shield fleet) + buffer & resistance tanked combo will work (I think common incursion fits are good reference, just keep combat range in mind, incursions seem to favor short-ranged combat), but it does require at least 2 dedicated logis and as such is not optimal for smaller fleets (4-6 ships); I wouldn't recommend single logi based fleet due to neuts, but it might work supported with other rr ships (still wouldn't recommend it, too many things that can go wrong)
Bane Nucleus Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O. 427	Posted - 2013.05.08 12:50:00 - [56] - Quote As someone who lived in a c2 with a c4 static for many years, I can tell you that one Rattlesnake, a Basi, and some Gilas will wreck c4 anoms in about 3-4 minutes a piece. Have the Basi bouncing with the Rattle snake, and you are golden. Free Agent
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1346	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:11:00 - [57] - Quote So much LOL advice in here. Makes me wonder how many actually run C4 sites. - The only anom you should worry about neuting in is a Sleeper information Sanctum, because the safeguard burns in fast and close, and is the trigger. Neuting in a Barracks is only a problem if you don't know how to fly this anom (proper piloting does a nice job of putting all your wrecks in easy noctis range as well). - 3 Logi for C4's? Overkill much? We start with 3 RR tengus (inexpensive, 600DPS). You can run with 2, but you can't tank a barracks second wave indefinitely so you gotta get an upholder off the field ASAP. with more than 3 we start adding either buffer fit max DPS Tengu, or shield fit BS (3 RR Tengu's can keep a buffer fit Raven alive fine). Each RR tengu also has a TP fit when we use something like a Raven, which helps a ton in damage application. Bottom line is that 3 RR Tengu's can keep just about anything alive in a C4 site and also adds ~1800dps, while 3 Logi is overkill for reps and adds almost no DPS. I'm sure there is more, but I gotta get back to work.
Meytal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 185	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:35:00 - [58] - Quote Gal'o Sengen wrote: So, after three pages of stupidity and pissing contests, a grand total of zero armour fits has been posted. There's possibly a reason for that ;) You can run C4 anoms in any setup. If you know the difference between your head and a hole in the ground, you should be able to come up with an armour composition that can shoot NPCs and stay alive. If you want to do this fast though, you will be using shield ships; shield is simply far and away more efficient for this right now. The upcoming Domi changes will help tremendously though, bringing it almost on par with other shield options. There are some changes that make it better in EFT -- and you'll have EFT-warriors screaming this at you -- but in actual usage, those changes don't matter in relation to the comparable shield options, depending on fleet size. Edit: If you can't target and hit out to 130km, you will either waste time and ISK/hr waiting for Sleepers to be in range, or you waste time and ISK/hr by lack of focused damage, or you waste time and ISK/hr when setting up special bookmarks. You can't forget those bookmarks or salvaging time in your ISK/hr calculations. When we ran Tengus, we often didn't feel like running the sites because of the bookmarking annoyance. (This post is intentionally vague)
Bane Nucleus Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O. 427	Posted - 2013.05.08 13:36:00 - [59] - Quote Tengus kill so slow though. Sentry drone DPS is far better. Free Agent
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1346	Posted - 2013.05.08 23:41:00 - [60] - Quote Meytal wrote: Edit: If you can't target and hit out to 130km, you will either waste time and ISK/hr waiting for Sleepers to be in range, or you waste time and ISK/hr by lack of focused damage, or you waste time and ISK/hr when setting up special bookmarks. You can't forget those bookmarks or salvaging time in your ISK/hr calculations. When we ran Tengus, we often didn't feel like running the sites because of the bookmarking annoyance. Everyone says this. But it really isn't that bad. Yes the Radars and Mags are stupid long range. But only 1 of the 4 anoms are annoying long range. Frontier Barracks- warp in first wave is 95km away. Takes maybe 30sec max for an RR tengu fleet to get in range. After that if flown properly you can easily be in range of the other waves, no lost time. Integrated Terminus- Honestly i forget cause this site is crap and we generally ignore them. But its all small fast ships so they burn in fast. (even the safeguard burns in fast) Information sanctum- Short range Command post. Yes this one is annoying. But after the first wave gets in range, just pop triggers early. DPS isn't bad so you can finish the prior wave while the next one gets in range.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:39:00 - [61] - Quote Meytal wrote: Gal'o Sengen wrote: So, after three pages of stupidity and pissing contests, a grand total of zero armour fits has been posted. The upcoming Domi changes will help tremendously though, bringing it almost on par with other shield options. There are some changes that make it better in EFT -- and you'll have EFT-warriors screaming this at you -- but in actual usage, those changes don't matter in relation to the comparable shield options, depending on fleet size. (This post is intentionally vague) The current navy domi is the shield option. No other ship in the game can light up sleeper battleships up to 100k away at 1k dps while still managing to have 100k+ ehp. All before boosts.
Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 14	Posted - 2013.05.09 09:34:00 - [62] - Quote Armageddons will have after odyssey same drone damage bonus as domi. So you can have armour RR geddons. But imho domies will be still better because of drone range bonus.
Meytal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 185	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:05:00 - [63] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Everyone says this. But it really isn't that bad. Bane is probably W-space's biggest troll, stirring up more crap than everyone else combined, but he's right about something once in a while. Accidents happen, I guess . In this case, he's right that you can knock out C4 sites in as little as 3-4 minutes for really good ISK/hr rates. You have to have a good composition, near-perfect skills, be on the ball with focus firing, and actually be trying. When you can clear a site in such a short time, waiting 30 seconds for things to be in range is an eternity. Basically, you warp to a site at 0 and start shooting almost immediately, pop everything as it burns to you, then warp to the next site at 0, etc. There are two Anom types that are preferable, one that is adequate, and one you never want to run if you care about efficiency. With a setup like this, you also don't bother with Mags or Radars because they take too much time and effort for comparatively little return. Burn through the anoms, roll, scan, secure, and burn through the next system's anoms. Britta Nolen wrote: The current navy domi is the shield option. No other ship in the game can light up sleeper battleships up to 100k away at 1k dps while still managing to have 100k+ ehp. All before boosts. Domi/Navy Domi is a shield option, but it is not the current best. After the patch it will be better, particularly with tracking, but it will still not necessarily be the best if you can pop them before they get into orbit. Ships burning directly toward you with MWD on are really easy to track and hit. If you don't have the DPS to burn them before they reach orbit, the Domi/Navy Domi will probably come out ahead post-patch. Like I said, you want to hit them at up to 130km for maximum efficiency, and there are one or more ships that can do that at close to 1k (don't remember the exact numbers because I don't personally fly such a ship). I'm not going to do the work for you though ;) You can do well in C4s, but for the effort involved the reward is not good enough and is also highly dependent on RNG. C4 sites need to be buffed slightly. Note that all of the above is from the point of view of min/maxing ISK/hr efficiency, not necessarily the fun or enjoyment factor. The sentry Domi can make life hard for gankers with ECM, and if you set them to guard the person being shot you don't even have to worry about anything until the next wave. RR Tengus are a great lower-skill option that is also annoying to gank if you don't have enough ECM or neuts. A more laid back atmosphere can often be of greater value than raw ISK/hr efficiency.
Britta Nolen Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.05.10 07:00:00 - [64] - Quote Meytal wrote: [quote=Derath Ellecon] A more laid back atmosphere can often be of greater value than raw ISK/hr efficiency. Yep, sentry drones on assist is the single greatest thing ever. If only CCP would make a navy dominix that could use drone control units.

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