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T2 cap rigs and w-space

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Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 15:24:00 - [1] - Quote So once t2 cap rigs are introduced, will t2 rigs still be a thing? 5 times the material cost would put some commonly used t2 rigs above the cost of a carrier hull. As of this moment, my caps are t2 rigged. Also, this is more of a discussion starter than a question.
Rek Seven DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 679	Posted - 2013.04.24 16:44:00 - [2] - Quote Have they even confirmed if they will be introducing T2 capital rigs? If they do and the price is 5 times that of the large T2, i can't see many people willing to pay 3 billion plus to rig their caps. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail?
Grainsalt S.L.I.M.E. 177	Posted - 2013.04.24 16:58:00 - [3] - Quote If this is true I would suspect most people would use T2 capital rigs on supers only.
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 17:10:00 - [4] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: Have they even confirmed if they will be introducing T2 capital rigs? If they do and the price is 5 times that of the large T2, i can't see many people willing to pay 3 billion plus to rig their caps. I have not seen confirmation, but I did see a pastebin somewhere suggesting they would be, though. I'll see if I can't find it again.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 243	Posted - 2013.04.24 17:20:00 - [5] - Quote The potential price rise is a concern, definitely going to make people a lot more reluctant to actually use their capitals in w-space and to a lesser degree lowsec if the t1 rigs are a lot more expensive and fitting t2 ones is significantly more than the hull price.
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 18:08:00 - [6] - Quote TBH, this change should be no surprise. However, the way it is being done seems to be alienating normal caps from even considering T2 rigs. Perhaps, CCP should implement a change to rig salvage costs and keep the current "tiers" of rigs plus add a 'super' rigs. Maybe base the salvage requirements off that tiers' ships mineral requirements? I'm no good with suggesting changes, so if this is terrible, just ignore it. :3
rockbitter Imaginary Time Ltd 0	Posted - 2013.04.24 18:37:00 - [7] - Quote Sounds like now is the time to fit all my Caps with T2 Large Rigs. After the patch it will cost a lot more. I will assume CCP will follow the past and if its fit it stays. Or will I get a refund for all my Frigs that have large rigs on them?
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 18:59:00 - [8] - Quote rockbitter wrote: Sounds like now is the time to fit all my Caps with T2 Large Rigs. After the patch it will cost a lot more. I will assume CCP will follow the past and if its fit it stays. Or will I get a refund for all my Frigs that have large rigs on them? The dev post said if it fits now, it will work then.
Indo Nira DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 51	Posted - 2013.04.24 19:36:00 - [9] - Quote rockbitter wrote: Sounds like now is the time to fit all my Caps with T2 Large Rigs. After the patch it will cost a lot more. I will assume CCP will follow the past and if its fit it stays. Or will I get a refund for all my Frigs that have large rigs on them? now is kinda late, as they already cost quite a bit (people bought them all up, in whole regions at a time) and reselling them at higher prices already
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 19:56:00 - [10] - Quote Indo Nira wrote: rockbitter wrote: Sounds like now is the time to fit all my Caps with T2 Large Rigs. After the patch it will cost a lot more. I will assume CCP will follow the past and if its fit it stays. Or will I get a refund for all my Frigs that have large rigs on them? now is kinda late, as they already cost quite a bit (people bought them all up, in whole regions at a time) and reselling them at higher prices already Basically, those of us that already have them are elite :3
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.24 21:30:00 - [11] - Quote No big deal, just buy like 10 archons and fit them all with T2 CCC's and you're set. It's funny how the CCP post doesn't make it clear if they intend to create T2 capital rigs either. If they don't, I'm going to literally die of laughter while I roll around in my pimp T2 rigged cap that nobody else can ever get unless they themselves had some before the patch. Also, the T2 rigs are expensive now because of the speculation, so just build your own, not terribly hard.
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 22:35:00 - [12] - Quote Guess I'll be buying a Moros several months before my alt can even sit in it \o/
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.24 23:46:00 - [13] - Quote Craggus wrote: Guess I'll be buying a Moros several months before my alt can even sit in it \o/ Why? The only T2 rigs worth fitting to a moros are T2 gun rigs which are already super cheap (~30mil) now, and will only be ~150mil post patch, not really worth tying up around 3bil worth of isk just to save 120mil in 2-3 months. It's really only worth it for fitting expensive T2 rigs, i.e. trimarks, CCC's, semiconductors, w/e, and I can't see a reason why you would fit any of those to a dread, just not worth it in pretty much any case unless you're giga rich and just don't care.
Indo Nira DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 52	Posted - 2013.04.24 23:52:00 - [14] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: Craggus wrote: Guess I'll be buying a Moros several months before my alt can even sit in it \o/ Why? The only T2 rigs worth fitting to a moros are T2 gun rigs which are already super cheap (~30mil) now, and will only be ~150mil post patch, not really worth tying up around 3bil worth of isk just to save 120mil in 2-3 months. It's really only worth it for fitting expensive T2 rigs, i.e. trimarks, CCC's, semiconductors, w/e, and I can't see a reason why you would fit any of those to a dread, just not worth it in pretty much any case unless you're giga rich and just don't care. not sure if serious, and not sure if a wormholer.
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.24 23:55:00 - [15] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: Craggus wrote: Guess I'll be buying a Moros several months before my alt can even sit in it \o/ Why? The only T2 rigs worth fitting to a moros are T2 gun rigs which are already super cheap (~30mil) now, and will only be ~150mil post patch, not really worth tying up around 3bil worth of isk just to save 120mil in 2-3 months. It's really only worth it for fitting expensive T2 rigs, i.e. trimarks, CCC's, semiconductors, w/e, and I can't see a reason why you would fit any of those to a dread, just not worth it in pretty much any case unless you're giga rich and just don't care. With the groups I've flown with in C5's, their standard fits for dreads and carriers all included T2 semiconductors and trimarks, sooooo.... vOv
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1697	Posted - 2013.04.25 00:03:00 - [16] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: Craggus wrote: Guess I'll be buying a Moros several months before my alt can even sit in it \o/ Why? The only T2 rigs worth fitting to a moros are T2 gun rigs which are already super cheap (~30mil) now, and will only be ~150mil post patch, not really worth tying up around 3bil worth of isk just to save 120mil in 2-3 months. T2 trimarks ftw. yeah, it's anoying that the cost is going up x5. personally I feel it's a silly change. it's not really gonna affect the way i fit my caps though. I am going to buy probably half a dozen archons and T2 CCC them before the changes however ;) most of my dreads are fit with just the 1 T2 gun rig and 2 T1 trimarks so that's not much of a problem.
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.25 02:12:00 - [17] - Quote Craggus wrote: With the groups I've flown with in C5's, their standard fits for dreads and carriers all included T2 semiconductors and trimarks, sooooo.... vOv Your choice to fit T2 trimarks and semiconductors to dreads if you want, but imo right now they're absolutely not cost effective or useful in any way. Neither are useful in pve in any way, and they only offer marginal utility in pvp over just t1 rigs. (And I'd argue that a T2 gun rig + 2 t1 trimarks is the best possible rigging setup for a pvp dread anyway). I personally think a lot of groups in high class wormholes are somewhat deluded anyway.
Craggus BlueWaffe 94	Posted - 2013.04.25 02:27:00 - [18] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: Craggus wrote: With the groups I've flown with in C5's, their standard fits for dreads and carriers all included T2 semiconductors and trimarks, sooooo.... vOv I personally think a lot of groups in high class wormholes are somewhat deluded. Your choice to fit T2 trimarks and semiconductors to dreads if you want, but imo right now they're absolutely not cost effective or useful in any way. Neither are useful in pve in any way, and they only offer marginal utility in pvp over just t1 rigs. (And I'd argue that a T2 gun rig + 2 t1 trimarks is the best possible rigging setup for a pvp dread anyway). T2 CCC's are worth it on an archon though, and like Jack mentioned, you'd be wise to buy some archons and rig them with T2 CCC's since even if you don't use them yourself down the line (saving them as replacements in a sense), somebody will definitely buy your archon, and you'll make a pretty penny since 2 t2 CCC's costs around 400mil right now, but post patch assuming 5x cost, 2 of them will be worth 2bil. So you're potentially making ~1.6bil per archon you rig with T2 CCC's, which is essentially a 100% return on investment (since it''ll cost you around 1.6-1.7bil to buy the archon and rigs in the first place). Heh, I prefer semiconductors over CCC's. But, I think we're getting a bit off-topic. The fact remains, it seems it might be a good idea to buy a couple (or whatever you can afford) of dreads and/or carriers and fit whatever rigs you prefer to use on them now rather than wait until after the expansion. I for one just picked up a few T2 large rigs and will be putting them on ships in the next couple of days.
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.25 02:30:00 - [19] - Quote Doesn't even have to be T2 rigs, even T1 rigs are worth rigging now if you're going planning on using a cap in the next 3-4 months, but haven't bought it.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1698	Posted - 2013.04.25 08:16:00 - [20] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: [quote=Craggus]Your choice to fit T2 trimarks and semiconductors to dreads if you want, but imo right now they're absolutely not cost effective or useful in any way. Neither are useful in pve in any way, and they only offer marginal utility in pvp over just t1 rigs. you dont run wh PVE do you? t2 memcells are beyond awesome for PVE. they are also epic win on shield tanked PVP dreads, also, T2 trimarks are clearly better than T1 trimarks lol, youre not arguing your way around that.
WInter Borne Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking 64	Posted - 2013.04.25 17:37:00 - [21] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: I personally think a lot of groups in high class wormholes are somewhat deluded. Your choice to fit T2 trimarks and semiconductors to dreads if you want, but imo right now they're absolutely not cost effective or useful in any way. Neither are useful in pve in any way, and they only offer marginal utility in pvp over just t1 rigs. (And I'd argue that a T2 gun rig + 2 t1 trimarks is the best possible rigging setup for a pvp dread anyway). What do wormholers care about cost efficiency? Also, like Jack mentioned, Shield Gank Moro's with memory cells are fun.
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.25 22:47:00 - [22] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: you dont run wh PVE do you? t2 memcells are beyond awesome for PVE. they are also epic win on shield tanked PVP dreads, also, T2 trimarks are clearly better than T1 trimarks lol, youre not arguing your way around that. What I mean when i say that T2 mem cells or T2 trimarks are not useful is that they give no significant tangible benefit, particularly with respect to their cost. With regard to T2 memcells, I don't see the point if my dreads literally never run out of cap ever in pve (they are fit with t1 mem cells currently), and with regard to trimarks, I don't think that T2 trimarks are even close to cost effective over T1 trimarks simply because dreads are active tanked, imo cap rigs afford more survivability to a dread with a cap rep (or two) than fitting T2 trimarks. I'm not saying T2 trimarks are not better than T1, just that they're not useful. The only time I would fit trimarks to a dread over cap rigs is if I had a T2 gun rig, and thus two rigs slots and 100 calibration left. t1 trimarks are 50 calibration each, so I can fit two of them. I can't fit 2 T2 trimarks since they're 75 calibration each, so in this case, T2 trimarks are non-viable. And in the case of just fitting 3x T2 trimarks, I think that 3x t1 mem cells would be better.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1699	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:06:00 - [23] - Quote Angsty Teenager wrote: What I mean when i say that T2 mem cells or T2 trimarks are not useful is that they give no significant tangible benefit, particularly with respect to their cost. With regard to T2 memcells, I don't see the point if my dreads literally never run out of cap ever in pve (they are fit with t1 mem cells currently), and with regard to trimarks, I don't think that T2 trimarks are even close to cost effective over T1 trimarks simply because dreads are active tanked, imo cap rigs afford more survivability to a dread with a cap rep (or two) than fitting T2 trimarks. how many cap mods and how many tank mods do you run on your PVE dreads and how often do you refit them under fire? if the answer to these is not 0, 3 and never, then you should T2 rig your dreads. first of all, PVP dreads are not active tanked, they are buffer tanked, bleeder tanked at BEST. what part of this discussion has anything to do with cost effectiveness? officer heat sinks probably arent cost effective either, but I still have 2 of them on my PVP rev. mate, I live in a wh, cost effectiveness never, ever comes into play when im fitting ships. For the record, CCC/memcell rigged dreads are for PVE. bringing them to a PVP fight is laughable. they die so horribly to trimarks that it's like beating up children. (shield dreads are the exception, they should be memcell rigged.) bottom line is that if you take T2 rigged dreads up against T1 rigged dreads, the T2 rigged ones will always win and there's your cost effectiveness right there.
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:14:00 - [24] - Quote I run 0 cap mods, and between 1-3 tank mods depending on if I need to refit. I don't see the point in fitting T2 rigs if I never use the cap though. It is literally a non-issue and I cba to spend the money. Whether or not cost effectiveness is an issue for you doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm making the assumption of active tanked dreads here, and in any sort of fight where actually using a buffer tanked dread is preferrable, your dread will die and I'd rather lose 1bil less tyvm. (or in the case of post patch, which is what this thread is about, 4.5bil)
I dont troll Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.04.25 23:23:00 - [25] - Quote WInter Borne wrote: What do wormholers care about cost? fixed that for you
Hathrul DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 221	Posted - 2013.04.26 10:55:00 - [26] - Quote im mostly curious how efficient the repair and remote repair rigs are gonna be on capitals. might be rather interesting to play around with some new fittings :) and confirming cost isnt much of a concern. however, with t2 trimarks now being 300+ normal, that would make capital ones 1.5b. not sure if they are still viable then. 1b for a ccc is okay. capital rigs seem to have been balanced for supercaps and titans. in 0sec t2 rigs rarely get used anyway because regular caps are like throw away things there as far as i know.....shame that the capital rigs arent much balanced for wh space. spose thats impossible
Angsty Teenager Derpotle 150	Posted - 2013.04.26 17:14:00 - [27] - Quote Hathrul wrote: im mostly curious how efficient the repair and remote repair rigs are gonna be on capitals. might be rather interesting to play around with some new fittings :) Remote Repair Augmentor Rigs already work on capitals, just not as efficient as stacking cap recharge.
sembur Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 9	Posted - 2013.04.27 02:31:00 - [28] - Quote FanFest Keynote clearly included T2 Capital Rigs FWIW.
Svodola Darkfury Heaven's End League of Infamy 164	Posted - 2013.04.29 08:15:00 - [29] - Quote sembur wrote: FanFest Keynote clearly included T2 Capital Rigs FWIW. Ugh. The problem is nobody uses T2 Large Rigs for BATTLESHIPS right now, and they're going to add another tier for capitals that are going to remain largely unused except by supers and titans. It seemed like the current system made perfect sense; T2 large rigs were more expensive and made sense on a hull that cost over a billion ISK (pimped battleships or capitals) and T1 rigs were for normal battleship users. Now it's going to be pay the same you paid before, but for less quality, OR pay the cost of your carrier hull for T2 rigs. Yes I can afford it; just annoying. #FirstWorldProblems. Svo.
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1729	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:02:00 - [30] - Quote Svodola Darkfury wrote: The problem is nobody uses T2 Large Rigs for BATTLESHIPS right now, this is exactly the problem IMO. after these changes, T2 large size rigs will be more or less irrelevant since theyre put on BSs VERY rarely and even then only a select few. they really need to make large rigs cheaper as part of this change and not make cpa ones as expensive as theyre planning to.

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