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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.07.30 16:26:00 -
[1]
In the next patch I think you should eliminate the availibility of clones for players that have exceeded a specified negative security rating so that when they die that character will die also. It would add realism to the game.
Having been killed recently for the first time I realized that posting a bounty would be pretty ineffective because they could just get a friend of theirs to kill them, collect the bounty and then split the isk. Another scam.
I think player pirates add to the game but at this point see it as a low risk occupation. If one chooses to live on the dark side then certain benifits of civilized life should be withheld from them. Cloning being a major benifit.
If cloning was not availible then Player Pirates would be forced to RETRAIN a new character each time they are killed and thus be imposed a TIME penalty as well as the existing finacial penalty for choosing such an occupation. This is more closely with the process in the real world and provide a player value for posting bounties on these player pirates. I believe the EVE would be a much better game if CCP incorporated this aspect of the real world into out gaming universe.
As it is now the power Player Pirates wield is still disproportionate to what a majority of players in the game are able to wield without being forced to play the game the way THEY want to play it.
Why do they get to dictate??? Today its only because they are protected by the system. Take that away and the playing field becomes much more even and in the long run nore enjoyable for all.
Fellow gamers SPEAK UP! WE NEED THIS CHANGE!
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Muacha
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Posted - 2003.07.30 16:39:00 -
[2]
I disagree completely for a number of reasons.
First, taking away clones for pirates under the guise of "realism" is a joke. If your goal is realism then the clones should be done away with completely. But your suggestion is simply targeted at the pirates....I say, what you do to one (pirates), you must do to the other (non-pirates).
Second, pirates already have a rough go of it. They can't enter Empire space without running huge risks from Concord and the Navy's. They have been "pushed" out of noob space thereby allowing noobs to get started in the game. Plus, they have to worry about other pirates out there.
Lastly, this game is advertised to allow pirating. It's on the box! To continually gank the pirates is not right. They have been kicked hard recently and I think things should stay the way they are for awhile.
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Gullan Coco
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Posted - 2003.07.30 16:42:00 -
[3]
You got an idea here. What about if normal clonelabs refuse them, because they are murderers with a price on their neck, so they have to turn to a blackmarket clone lab...which ofc is not as good and much more expensive
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Silver Striker
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Posted - 2003.07.30 16:54:00 -
[4]
Pirates need clones too. No one wants to spend a month training a character for good or evil only to see him vaporized in a few seconds.
I do think that clones should be harder to get in certain places. Gallente players should have a slightly decreased cost in gallente space, caldari in caldari space,etc. If you want to be cloned in another area than your home you can pay a bit more. If you have a -sec rating or terrible standing in a certain region you can't buy clones there. In uncontrolled space clones can cost a bit more and be available to all. This is not an attempt to punish anyone, just a way to add some personality to the game.
My .02
That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!! |
Qual
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Posted - 2003.07.30 19:09:00 -
[5]
Repeating myself here: What they need to do is implement it the way they first intended. Whenever you die you loose a set % of ALL your skill points. For a low grade clone this might be 25% for a high grade as low as perhaps 3 or 4 %. But it would ensure that death was something to be avoided. By ALL players.
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Xelios
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Posted - 2003.07.30 22:19:00 -
[6]
While I don't think pirates should have no clones, I think all clones should be less effective than they are. Death is almost irrelevant right now, your ship can be replaced for 5 mil, or produced by your corp for 0 isk, and your clone will set you back a couple mil at most. The bottom line being, either clones are too easy to obtain or they are too efficient, whatever the case they make death to unimportant as they are now.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.30 22:39:00 -
[7]
Make clone pices take into account the sec rating of the player.
Negative sec rating = clonet at higher prices.
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2003.07.30 22:39:00 -
[8]
Strongly disagree. Pirates need access to the same services as everyone else. If you need to rolelpay this, give them options of underground cloners of equal quality in low sec space.
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[/IMG]http://millerfam.org/eve/synapse_logo.jpg[/IMG]
Everyone deserves a chance to live.
My job is to make sure they get it. |
Jiere LaFortune
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Posted - 2003.07.30 23:34:00 -
[9]
while i agree, the bounty scam needs to be worked on (getting your pal to pod you and splitting the isk) the rest of it is *******s. If you want to change the way clones work, change it for everyone. I agree that the clones as they are now are a bit too effective. There should be a skill penalty for dying regardless. Instead of clones with a set number of skill points that can be kept, it should be a percentage, with the highest quality clone being a 90% or 95% skill point keeper.
Pirate Bravado |
LiverpoolFC
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Posted - 2003.07.30 23:54:00 -
[10]
As much as i find pirates frustrating they are an essential part of the game.
If they can't clone then what is the point. Skill points take time for all characters and pirates are just the same and they should be allowed to clone in any location they want.
However I would like to see the cost of cloning and insurance linked to SR. The lower the SR, the greater the risk and hence cost.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.30 23:56:00 -
[11]
IMHO, I think the game must have an option for the player, where he can choose to not loose any skill at all (at a price). It must be up to the player to decide if it is worth or not.
But charging a big pile of ISK to everybody is not fair. There are players that seek death and destruction, there are others that try to avoid it. Why should a player that try to avoid being podded be charged the same as a player that looks for trouble ?
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Lungorthin
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Posted - 2003.07.31 15:02:00 -
[12]
Pirates should have the right to a clone just like everyone else.
Pirate is no different an occupation as say Miner or Researcher
The issue is a completely other, and that is that pirates are very hard to punish for they run and hide in NPC bases and are untouchable there. That should be fixed! Not the clones.
Lungorthin
If you want peace... prepare for war. |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.07.31 15:31:00 -
[13]
I dont think linking security rating with clone cost would work. I think it would be impossible to enforce!
Why?... because all the rat has to do is PK in 0.0 space and he never gets a sec hit at all. I've seen rats with silly levels of SR (8.8 this morning for instance).
Since CCP virtually killed off the sec rating gains by killing rats you cant get that high a rating anymore.. at least not for ages and I'm talking months of pure rat killing.
When CCP changed the gains they should have zero'd everyones SR to make it at least a level field.
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Shock
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Posted - 2003.07.31 16:47:00 -
[14]
No, not makes the clones unavailable, that would drive away pretty much all pirates.
But it does makes sense to make the clones more expensive. And it will encourage pirates to start using hit and run tactics instead of endless gate camping.
Also will it raise the bar for selfpodding.
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soonÖ |
SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.07.31 19:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: SUNchaser on 31/07/2003 19:15:30
Black market clones for pirates could work as long as the price was high enough. But there has to be a penalty for rejecting civlized behavior and currently there is none for Player Killers.
In real society those who operate under their own set of criminal rules, when caught pay a time cost by imprisonment. Losing skills would equate to that same time penalty. And I do understand that the only real people against this idea would be those that SUPPORT player killers.
This game isn't totally about killing other players and if something isn't done to put their power in check they will ruin the game. I was just attacked in a 1.0 system by a PK with a -9.7 sec rating. Retailiation I imagine for posting this idea.
Changes were susposed to have been made a couple of patches ago to prevent them from bringing their lawless behavior to any area of the game they choose. Well it isn't working and something needs to be done to allow those who want to do something other than KILL play this game.
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Katherine Steiner
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Posted - 2003.07.31 20:21:00 -
[16]
You know...the funny part about that PKs can enter civilised space is when I pass a Battleship (looked at it since I love to see em and I usually keep track of folks I am flying nearby) and find out that its a pirate with a bounty running a -9. something sec rating sitting at the gate area of a 1.0 sec system just enjoying himself at kicking the puny Concorders butts....I really wish I knew what he was configured as since it looked like he was having way too easy a time at it with approx 4-5 ships attacking him and space littered with another 5-6 containers from previous kills. I was happy to leave, but made me wonder just how safe the security zones are if people can just kill the NPC guards so easily.
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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.07.31 20:34:00 -
[17]
Player Killers made a statement to CCP today.
DURIPANT: 13 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS
RENYN : 7 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS
LUMINAIRE: 7 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS
Yup this game is so much fun when a bunch of jerks can run wild with no real reprecussions for their deeds. DURIPANT hmmm thats where some players are created for the very first time. I can imagine what someone in space for the very first time thinks when a BATTLESHIP kills him for no reason at all. Well now that sure must have been fun for those SUPERIOR player killers. How frustrating it must have been for Lord Zap not to have been able to kill me in my unarmed bestwoer with his big bad Megathron battleship.
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Sar Random
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sar Random on 31/07/2003 21:32:49
Edited by: Sar Random on 31/07/2003 21:22:34
Actually, 99% of those kills are made by the cops on players attacking other players, either intentionally or by splash damage. I recently departed the station in Duripant and a noob in a velator shot at me. Before I could react, the cops killed him. This is true in all the noob systems. Just look at the map. Bourynes, Kisogo, Duripant, Cistuvaert, Hulm, Amarr, etc.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:24:00 -
[19]
Actually a corp mate of mine just ran into Lord Zap in Luminaire, Zap shot at him and got him down to half sheilds before he ran away from the police.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.31 21:29:00 -
[20]
NeoMorph,
I think this is an issue that does not happen anymore.
Now, to increase your sec rating you must kill thousands of high level pirates just to get 1 point.
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Skimmer
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Posted - 2003.08.01 08:48:00 -
[21]
It has come to my attention that this game that is supposed to be dynamic and ever changing is growing static at least where established PC pirates and others are concerned. Between insurance and clones they are all but immortal. Mean while newer players are faced with sometimes major set backs when killed by these immortals. Plus if you do manage to get strong enough to fight them it just turns into an endless circle of fighting in which neither side grows weaker. Whats the point if you can never beat your enemy and wars bewteen major corps are without cost? It just doesn't seem like someting worth working for. Something needs to change.
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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.08.01 09:10:00 -
[22]
Thank you skimmer for summing up the real problem as it exist today. good job
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Baddaxe
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:04:00 -
[23]
I just quit. This will be my only and last post. A games not fun when a little frigate like mine that I ran mission after mission to afford pops through a gate to meet 4 battleships with a warp engine killer and pound my 3 week old self to death so they can get their nameson a killboard and sing great songs about the death of a noob. What fun for them. Not understanding the need for insurance and clones yet I get to start over?
CCP says welcome to the real world. Well I say show me someplace in the real world when 4 guys in tanks with automatic weapons and rocket launchers fire off an EMP at a 4-way stop sign in downtown Dallas to kill my car and then blow me away just for the fun of it and I'll show you a bridge I have for sale down south cheap!
This would be a great game except for all the Pk'er. WHo wants to pay by the month to give jerks a target. Done wasting my time...
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:12:00 -
[24]
Good riddance. If you think it's bad when your assets blown up, you're doing the right thing to leave early. If you stick around long enough, CCP will break everything in your hangar, one way or another.
Crusades: Bounties & Security Status |
Archivian Specialatus
Amarr
Fairlight Corp
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2007.12.08 09:43:00 -
[25]
Well i do think that pirates should actually pay for actively going out to be a criminal BY CHOICE
But removing the ability to get clones altogether is too harsh a rule (even though i think that should happen)
I did a post in a different thread for Pubishments for Criminals. The can still get clones, its just go cost them alot more, and insurance will cost them alot and a few other things as well.
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bring back Eve TV |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:20:00 -
[26]
hahahahahahaa
Use the tools available to you to hunt us and drive us out. Stop playing solo mode. Learn to appreciate EVE for the multiplayer game it is, rather than the WoW clone you want it to be.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:39:00 -
[27]
 Originally by: Baddaxe
I just quit. This will be my only and last post.
And you had to do it by necroing a 4 year old thread?
Quote:
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Drogher Forerunner
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Posted - 2007.12.09 14:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Redback911
hahahahahahaa
Use the tools available to you to hunt us and drive us out. Stop playing solo mode. Learn to appreciate EVE for the multiplayer game it is, rather than the WoW clone you want it to be.
Well its true that if you are commiting crimes in empire space, there is hardly a penalty, they may as well make it 0.0 and let the pirate fest being... well continue actually.
It would be so bad if the bounty system worked or if they had some other kind of system. But even if you as a player are not a pirate, but your fight takes you into empire space and so there for you technically commit an act of piracey (oops) and your flashing red and sec status goes down and all the rest. Well, it doesnt actually effect you in anyway except going into high sec. I was wondering what was the point if my sec status was low and nothing happen.
They should wither fix bounties/ Add penalties or just change no sec to low sec. considering the only difference is a flashy icon and an inabillity to go to high sec. If you dont live in high sec then the whole thing is a joke.
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flashfreaking
LFC
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.12.09 16:27:00 -
[29]
the caps in your title made you feel special, didn't they?
And no, not happening, piracy is as much a profesion as miner, no need to not allow these pirats to exercice their jobs.
Pirats are needed for the economy: pirat blows up a ship, victim buys a new ship => giving sombody ISK...
Really, pirates are a part of eve, live with it
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Archivian Specialatus
Amarr
Fairlight Corp
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2007.12.09 19:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: flashfreaking
the caps in your title made you feel special, didn't they?
And no, not happening, piracy is as much a profesion as miner, no need to not allow these pirats to exercice their jobs.
Pirats are needed for the economy: pirat blows up a ship, victim buys a new ship => giving sombody ISK...
Really, pirates are a part of eve, live with it
I agree that pirating IS a profession and definitely does contribute to the economy. But piracy is also the only profession that is not victim to any other profession.
Piracy is the only profession in the game that directly affects other players without having to work through a game mechanic.
Example: Trading must work through the market/contract mechanics to affect other players/ Mining doesnÆt directly affect other players/ Mission runners do not affect other playersà etc. / Pirates just affect a player with no game mechanic in between.
All of the professions have a constant threat via the game mechanics whilst a player is performing that profession, except for pirates, whose threat is timed.
Example: Traders-Gate Spawns and undercutting via the market (PVP essentially) and are subject to piracy/ Mining û Constant spawns and are subject to piracy / Mission runners-Mission Spawns and are subject to piracy / Pirates- Concord and aggro timers and permanent flashy redness after they have done it many times and if victims defend themselves they cant jump through gates even though they have been forced into it. Every other profession is open to attack from game mechanics and pirates from the outset. Those are not constant and only become constant based on your Sec Status and that can be avoided where as threats for other professions cannot be avoided. (Addition of Kill-Rights is constant though not as risky as other professions threats. û You can kill only people who would have to train for months to fight back)
All other professions are victim to Piracy and do not have a choice about it, but piracy is not victim to other professions (Namely because the current Bounty Hunter system does not work) and removes choice from all other professions.
A pirates best bounty comes from an unprotected hauler (I know they shouldnÆt be unprotected) there for low risk for the highest reward, even if that reward is rare. All other professions have a high risk for a high reward and their high reward is just as rare.
Essentially there is not enough risk and investment to justify a pirates reward and ability to effect the game, in comparison with any other profession. There needs to be more risk or penalties to being a pirate in empire space.
If there was more risk to piracy other professions would feel safer to go about their business and pirates would have more targets, though they would have to seriously weigh up the risks/penalties, as everyone in other professions have to right now.
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bring back Eve TV |
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