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MAKE PLAYER PIRATES ACCEPT THE TRUE RISK FOR THE OCCUPATION

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SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:26:00 - [1] In the next patch I think you should eliminate the availibility of clones for players that have exceeded a specified negative security rating so that when they die that character will die also. It would add realism to the game. Having been killed recently for the first time I realized that posting a bounty would be pretty ineffective because they could just get a friend of theirs to kill them, collect the bounty and then split the isk. Another scam. I think player pirates add to the game but at this point see it as a low risk occupation. If one chooses to live on the dark side then certain benifits of civilized life should be withheld from them. Cloning being a major benifit. If cloning was not availible then Player Pirates would be forced to RETRAIN a new character each time they are killed and thus be imposed a TIME penalty as well as the existing finacial penalty for choosing such an occupation. This is more closely with the process in the real world and provide a player value for posting bounties on these player pirates. I believe the EVE would be a much better game if CCP incorporated this aspect of the real world into out gaming universe. As it is now the power Player Pirates wield is still disproportionate to what a majority of players in the game are able to wield without being forced to play the game the way THEY want to play it. Why do they get to dictate??? Today its only because they are protected by the system. Take that away and the playing field becomes much more even and in the long run nore enjoyable for all. Fellow gamers SPEAK UP! WE NEED THIS CHANGE!
Muacha	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:39:00 - [2] I disagree completely for a number of reasons. First, taking away clones for pirates under the guise of "realism" is a joke. If your goal is realism then the clones should be done away with completely. But your suggestion is simply targeted at the pirates....I say, what you do to one (pirates), you must do to the other (non-pirates). Second, pirates already have a rough go of it. They can't enter Empire space without running huge risks from Concord and the Navy's. They have been "pushed" out of noob space thereby allowing noobs to get started in the game. Plus, they have to worry about other pirates out there. Lastly, this game is advertised to allow pirating. It's on the box! To continually gank the pirates is not right. They have been kicked hard recently and I think things should stay the way they are for awhile.
Gullan Coco	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:42:00 - [3] You got an idea here. What about if normal clonelabs refuse them, because they are murderers with a price on their neck, so they have to turn to a blackmarket clone lab...which ofc is not as good and much more expensive
Silver Striker	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:54:00 - [4] Pirates need clones too. No one wants to spend a month training a character for good or evil only to see him vaporized in a few seconds. I do think that clones should be harder to get in certain places. Gallente players should have a slightly decreased cost in gallente space, caldari in caldari space,etc. If you want to be cloned in another area than your home you can pay a bit more. If you have a -sec rating or terrible standing in a certain region you can't buy clones there. In uncontrolled space clones can cost a bit more and be available to all. This is not an attempt to punish anyone, just a way to add some personality to the game. My .02 *That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!!*
Qual	Posted - 2003.07.30 19:09:00 - [5] Repeating myself here: What they need to do is implement it the way they first intended. Whenever you die you loose a set % of ALL your skill points. For a low grade clone this might be 25% for a high grade as low as perhaps 3 or 4 %. But it would ensure that death was something to be avoided. By ALL players. Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department
Xelios	Posted - 2003.07.30 22:19:00 - [6] While I don't think pirates should have no clones, I think all clones should be less effective than they are. Death is almost irrelevant right now, your ship can be replaced for 5 mil, or produced by your corp for 0 isk, and your clone will set you back a couple mil at most. The bottom line being, either clones are too easy to obtain or they are too efficient, whatever the case they make death to unimportant as they are now.
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.07.30 22:39:00 - [7] Make clone pices take into account the sec rating of the player. Negative sec rating = clonet at higher prices. _______________________________________________
Synapse Archae	Posted - 2003.07.30 22:39:00 - [8] Strongly disagree. Pirates need access to the same services as everyone else. If you need to rolelpay this, give them options of underground cloners of equal quality in low sec space. --------------------------------------------- [/IMG]http://millerfam.org/eve/synapse_logo.jpg[/IMG] Everyone deserves a chance to live. My job is to make sure they get it.
Jiere LaFortune	Posted - 2003.07.30 23:34:00 - [9] while i agree, the bounty scam needs to be worked on (getting your pal to pod you and splitting the isk) the rest of it is *******s. If you want to change the way clones work, change it for everyone. I agree that the clones as they are now are a bit too effective. There should be a skill penalty for dying regardless. Instead of clones with a set number of skill points that can be kept, it should be a percentage, with the highest quality clone being a 90% or 95% skill point keeper. Pirate Bravado
LiverpoolFC	Posted - 2003.07.30 23:54:00 - [10] As much as i find pirates frustrating they are an essential part of the game. If they can't clone then what is the point. Skill points take time for all characters and pirates are just the same and they should be allowed to clone in any location they want. However I would like to see the cost of cloning and insurance linked to SR. The lower the SR, the greater the risk and hence cost.
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.07.30 23:56:00 - [11] IMHO, I think the game must have an option for the player, where he can choose to not loose any skill at all (at a price). It must be up to the player to decide if it is worth or not. But charging a big pile of ISK to everybody is not fair. There are players that seek death and destruction, there are others that try to avoid it. Why should a player that try to avoid being podded be charged the same as a player that looks for trouble ? _______________________________________________
Lungorthin	Posted - 2003.07.31 15:02:00 - [12] Pirates should have the right to a clone just like everyone else. Pirate is no different an occupation as say Miner or Researcher The issue is a completely other, and that is that pirates are very hard to punish for they run and hide in NPC bases and are untouchable there. That should be fixed! Not the clones. Lungorthin If you want peace... prepare for war.
NeoMorph	Posted - 2003.07.31 15:31:00 - [13] I dont think linking security rating with clone cost would work. I think it would be impossible to enforce! Why?... because all the rat has to do is PK in 0.0 space and he never gets a sec hit at all. I've seen rats with silly levels of SR (8.8 this morning for instance). Since CCP virtually killed off the sec rating gains by killing rats you cant get that high a rating anymore.. at least not for ages and I'm talking months of pure rat killing. When CCP changed the gains they should have zero'd everyones SR to make it at least a level field. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Shock	Posted - 2003.07.31 16:47:00 - [14] No, not makes the clones unavailable, that would drive away pretty much all pirates. But it does makes sense to make the clones more expensive. And it will encourage pirates to start using hit and run tactics instead of endless gate camping. Also will it raise the bar for selfpodding. --- soonÖ
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.07.31 19:13:00 - [15] Edited by: SUNchaser on 31/07/2003 19:15:30 Black market clones for pirates could work as long as the price was high enough. But there has to be a penalty for rejecting civlized behavior and currently there is none for Player Killers. In real society those who operate under their own set of criminal rules, when caught pay a time cost by imprisonment. Losing skills would equate to that same time penalty. And I do understand that the only real people against this idea would be those that SUPPORT player killers. This game isn't totally about killing other players and if something isn't done to put their power in check they will ruin the game. I was just attacked in a 1.0 system by a PK with a -9.7 sec rating. Retailiation I imagine for posting this idea. Changes were susposed to have been made a couple of patches ago to prevent them from bringing their lawless behavior to any area of the game they choose. Well it isn't working and something needs to be done to allow those who want to do something other than KILL play this game.
Katherine Steiner	Posted - 2003.07.31 20:21:00 - [16] You know...the funny part about that PKs can enter civilised space is when I pass a Battleship (looked at it since I love to see em and I usually keep track of folks I am flying nearby) and find out that its a pirate with a bounty running a -9. something sec rating sitting at the gate area of a 1.0 sec system just enjoying himself at kicking the puny Concorders butts....I really wish I knew what he was configured as since it looked like he was having way too easy a time at it with approx 4-5 ships attacking him and space littered with another 5-6 containers from previous kills. I was happy to leave, but made me wonder just how safe the security zones are if people can just kill the NPC guards so easily.
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.07.31 20:34:00 - [17] Player Killers made a statement to CCP today. DURIPANT: 13 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS RENYN : 7 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS LUMINAIRE: 7 SHIPS KILLED IN PAST 24 HOURS Yup this game is so much fun when a bunch of jerks can run wild with no real reprecussions for their deeds. DURIPANT hmmm thats where some players are created for the very first time. I can imagine what someone in space for the very first time thinks when a BATTLESHIP kills him for no reason at all. Well now that sure must have been fun for those SUPERIOR player killers. How frustrating it must have been for Lord Zap not to have been able to kill me in my unarmed bestwoer with his big bad Megathron battleship.
Sar Random	Posted - 2003.07.31 21:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Sar Random on 31/07/2003 21:32:49 Edited by: Sar Random on 31/07/2003 21:22:34 Actually, 99% of those kills are made by the cops on players attacking other players, either intentionally or by splash damage. I recently departed the station in Duripant and a noob in a velator shot at me. Before I could react, the cops killed him. This is true in all the noob systems. Just look at the map. Bourynes, Kisogo, Duripant, Cistuvaert, Hulm, Amarr, etc.
Xelios	Posted - 2003.07.31 21:24:00 - [19] Actually a corp mate of mine just ran into Lord Zap in Luminaire, Zap shot at him and got him down to half sheilds before he ran away from the police.
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.07.31 21:29:00 - [20] NeoMorph, I think this is an issue that does not happen anymore. Now, to increase your sec rating you must kill thousands of high level pirates just to get 1 point. _______________________________________________
Skimmer	Posted - 2003.08.01 08:48:00 - [21] It has come to my attention that this game that is supposed to be dynamic and ever changing is growing static at least where established PC pirates and others are concerned. Between insurance and clones they are all but immortal. Mean while newer players are faced with sometimes major set backs when killed by these immortals. Plus if you do manage to get strong enough to fight them it just turns into an endless circle of fighting in which neither side grows weaker. Whats the point if you can never beat your enemy and wars bewteen major corps are without cost? It just doesn't seem like someting worth working for. Something needs to change.
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.08.01 09:10:00 - [22] Thank you skimmer for summing up the real problem as it exist today. good job
Baddaxe	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:04:00 - [23] I just quit. This will be my only and last post. A games not fun when a little frigate like mine that I ran mission after mission to afford pops through a gate to meet 4 battleships with a warp engine killer and pound my 3 week old self to death so they can get their nameson a killboard and sing great songs about the death of a noob. What fun for them. Not understanding the need for insurance and clones yet I get to start over? CCP says welcome to the real world. Well I say show me someplace in the real world when 4 guys in tanks with automatic weapons and rocket launchers fire off an EMP at a 4-way stop sign in downtown Dallas to kill my car and then blow me away just for the fun of it and I'll show you a bridge I have for sale down south cheap! This would be a great game except for all the Pk'er. WHo wants to pay by the month to give jerks a target. Done wasting my time...
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:12:00 - [24] Good riddance. If you think it's bad when your assets blown up, you're doing the right thing to leave early. If you stick around long enough, CCP will break everything in your hangar, one way or another. Crusades: Bounties & Security Status
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.12.08 09:43:00 - [25] Well i do think that pirates should actually pay for actively going out to be a criminal BY CHOICE But removing the ability to get clones altogether is too harsh a rule (even though i think that should happen) I did a post in a different thread for Pubishments for Criminals. The can still get clones, its just go cost them alot more, and insurance will cost them alot and a few other things as well. ------------------------------- bring back Eve TV
Redback911 Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:20:00 - [26] hahahahahahaa Use the tools available to you to hunt us and drive us out. Stop playing solo mode. Learn to appreciate EVE for the multiplayer game it is, rather than the WoW clone you want it to be.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.12.08 11:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Baddaxe I just quit. This will be my only and last post. And you had to do it by necroing a 4 year old thread? Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Drogher Forerunner	Posted - 2007.12.09 14:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Redback911 hahahahahahaa Use the tools available to you to hunt us and drive us out. Stop playing solo mode. Learn to appreciate EVE for the multiplayer game it is, rather than the WoW clone you want it to be. Well its true that if you are commiting crimes in empire space, there is hardly a penalty, they may as well make it 0.0 and let the pirate fest being... well continue actually. It would be so bad if the bounty system worked or if they had some other kind of system. But even if you as a player are not a pirate, but your fight takes you into empire space and so there for you technically commit an act of piracey (oops) and your flashing red and sec status goes down and all the rest. Well, it doesnt actually effect you in anyway except going into high sec. I was wondering what was the point if my sec status was low and nothing happen. They should wither fix bounties/ Add penalties or just change no sec to low sec. considering the only difference is a flashy icon and an inabillity to go to high sec. If you dont live in high sec then the whole thing is a joke.
flashfreaking LFC FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.12.09 16:27:00 - [29] the caps in your title made you feel special, didn't they? And no, not happening, piracy is as much a profesion as miner, no need to not allow these pirats to exercice their jobs. Pirats are needed for the economy: pirat blows up a ship, victim buys a new ship => giving sombody ISK... Really, pirates are a part of eve, live with it
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.12.09 19:16:00 - [30] Originally by: flashfreaking the caps in your title made you feel special, didn't they? And no, not happening, piracy is as much a profesion as miner, no need to not allow these pirats to exercice their jobs. Pirats are needed for the economy: pirat blows up a ship, victim buys a new ship => giving sombody ISK... Really, pirates are a part of eve, live with it I agree that pirating IS a profession and definitely does contribute to the economy. But piracy is also the only profession that is not victim to any other profession. Piracy is the only profession in the game that directly affects other players without having to work through a game mechanic. Example: Trading must work through the market/contract mechanics to affect other players/ Mining doesnÆt directly affect other players/ Mission runners do not affect other playersà etc. / Pirates just affect a player with no game mechanic in between. All of the professions have a constant threat via the game mechanics whilst a player is performing that profession, except for pirates, whose threat is timed. Example: Traders-Gate Spawns and undercutting via the market (PVP essentially) and are subject to piracy/ Mining û Constant spawns and are subject to piracy / Mission runners-Mission Spawns and are subject to piracy / Pirates- Concord and aggro timers and permanent flashy redness after they have done it many times and if victims defend themselves they cant jump through gates even though they have been forced into it. Every other profession is open to attack from game mechanics and pirates from the outset. Those are not constant and only become constant based on your Sec Status and that can be avoided where as threats for other professions cannot be avoided. (Addition of Kill-Rights is constant though not as risky as other professions threats. û You can kill only people who would have to train for months to fight back) All other professions are victim to Piracy and do not have a choice about it, but piracy is not victim to other professions (Namely because the current Bounty Hunter system does not work) and removes choice from all other professions. A pirates best bounty comes from an unprotected hauler (I know they shouldnÆt be unprotected) there for low risk for the highest reward, even if that reward is rare. All other professions have a high risk for a high reward and their high reward is just as rare. Essentially there is not enough risk and investment to justify a pirates reward and ability to effect the game, in comparison with any other profession. There needs to be more risk or penalties to being a pirate in empire space. If there was more risk to piracy other professions would feel safer to go about their business and pirates would have more targets, though they would have to seriously weigh up the risks/penalties, as everyone in other professions have to right now. ------------------------------- bring back Eve TV
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:07:00 - [31] Piracy is thought to be target of bounty hunters. Repair bounty mechanics and rejoice! Simple :)
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:23:00 - [32] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Piracy is thought to be target of bounty hunters. Repair bounty mechanics and rejoice! Simple :) agreed ------------------------------- bring back Eve TV
Jesnen Amarr Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:25:00 - [33] Edited by: Jesnen on 09/12/2007 23:25:47 Edited by: Jesnen on 09/12/2007 23:25:29 First of all i'd like to comment on how stupid we all are for posting in this necro, but you people who actually agree with the OP are the dumbest of all. There are hardly any pirates anymore!!! Warp to zero, invention driving down t2 loot prices, sniping nerfs and many other factors have all but eliminated piracy, so shutup you got your way already!!
Acidictadpole Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:35:00 - [34] Total and utter bs imo.. Sec status is pretty much concordes standing towards you, so if anything you should have a tough time getting clones in concorde stations and nothing else. I'm sorry you got killed, maybe next time you should heed the warning when jumping into a 0.4 or below system. And incase you didn't know, being globally flagged (15 minutes after a player aggression) will get you shot at by gate guns, concorde (if you go into a >0.4 system) and station guns. If your sec status goes too low right now, you can't get into high sec without having your ship blown up by concorde anyway. Which forces them to live a life in low sec (although they can kill rats for a few months and get that back, but it takes a lot more time to gain sec status than it did to lose it). Again, sorry you got killed.. Maybe you would think about this idea differently if your character got killed completely when you died.
Dorian Tzhaar	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:43:00 - [35] if anything i think they should have to pay a tax as far as i know you have one of those for POS in high sec so do the same for clones ------ sir sir were surrounded! excellent we can attack in any direction!
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:34:00 - [36] Originally by: Acidictadpole Total and utter bs imo.. Sec status is pretty much concordes standing towards you, so if anything you should have a tough time getting clones in concorde stations and nothing else. I'm sorry you got killed, maybe next time you should heed the warning when jumping into a 0.4 or below system. And incase you didn't know, being globally flagged (15 minutes after a player aggression) will get you shot at by gate guns, concorde (if you go into a >0.4 system) and station guns. If your sec status goes too low right now, you can't get into high sec without having your ship blown up by concorde anyway. Which forces them to live a life in low sec (although they can kill rats for a few months and get that back, but it takes a lot more time to gain sec status than it did to lose it). Again, sorry you got killed.. Maybe you would think about this idea differently if your character got killed completely when you died. Well pirates are usally dumb as **** hence why i have only died to a pirate when i was 1st venturing out to dangerous space after my 1st month in game. Considering you cant pirate in high sec, not being able to get there isnt really going affect your play so much, and its only minus 1 when that means you cant go there, so you can stay pretty close to the line and farm your way back up to ship your stolen loot in for sale. And gate guns arent really a threat unless you as a pirate really dont know how to build a ship. That is not an argument to prove risk vs reward. (or in this case its really penalties vs reward) Also Piracy doesnt mean podding people, so you can do alot of damage before your sec becomes a real problem. Now im not saying that you should be insta popped for being a pirate in low sec. But the fact of the matter is that you ARE a criminal, and you have done it by choice in an area that is policed. Perminant agro timer (gates/concord and station firing away) or higher ship insurance and clone prices, because you are choosing a profession that definitely leads you into conflict. (though this only applies to empire space) ------------------------------- bring back Eve TV
Acidictadpole Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.10 02:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Archivian Specialatus Well pirates are usally dumb as **** hence why i have only died to a pirate when i was 1st venturing out to dangerous space after my 1st month in game. Considering you cant pirate in high sec, not being able to get there isnt really going affect your play so much, and its only minus 1 when that means you cant go there, so you can stay pretty close to the line and farm your way back up to ship your stolen loot in for sale. And gate guns arent really a threat unless you as a pirate really dont know how to build a ship. That is not an argument to prove risk vs reward. (or in this case its really penalties vs reward) Also Piracy doesnt mean podding people, so you can do alot of damage before your sec becomes a real problem. Now im not saying that you should be insta popped for being a pirate in low sec. But the fact of the matter is that you ARE a criminal, and you have done it by choice in an area that is policed. Perminant agro timer (gates/concord and station firing away) or higher ship insurance and clone prices, because you are choosing a profession that definitely leads you into conflict. (though this only applies to empire space) 0.4 is a low security system. Hence concorde isn't going tocome to your rescue when you get attacked there.. the only concorde presence in low sec are in the form of sentries.. Since corporations don't really care about your sec status and just how many missions you've done for them, they would still allow you to have clones there for no charge.. Don't forget that concorde is an entirely different entity than all the corporations and empires and their standings towards you (security status) just mean that they won't help you if you get attacked (flashy red in high sec) and if they see you they will shoot you.. That's about it... All sec status is is your status with concorde, that's it. If you want to have something like expensive clones, or other silly stuff, it would only make sense to have it if it was given to you from concorde. Insurance and everything else is seperate from concorde also.
Gretix	Posted - 2007.12.10 04:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Muacha I disagree completely for a number of reasons. First, taking away clones for pirates under the guise of "realism" is a joke. If your goal is realism then the clones should be done away with completely. But your suggestion is simply targeted at the pirates....I say, what you do to one (pirates), you must do to the other (non-pirates). Second, pirates already have a rough go of it. They can't enter Empire space without running huge risks from Concord and the Navy's. They have been "pushed" out of noob space thereby allowing noobs to get started in the game. Plus, they have to worry about other pirates out there. Lastly, this game is advertised to allow pirating. It's on the box! To continually gank the pirates is not right. They have been kicked hard recently and I think things should stay the way they are for awhile. 1. Realism? Uh sorry but cloaning has been invented and implemented as an efficient and "real" part of the Eve universe (remember this is far into the future, not 2007 lol) 2. Eve is sold in boxes?
Archivian Specialatus Amarr Fairlight Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Acidictadpole [ 0.4 is a low security system. Hence concorde isn't going tocome to your rescue when you get attacked there.. the only concorde presence in low sec are in the form of sentries.. Since corporations don't really care about your sec status and just how many missions you've done for them, they would still allow you to have clones there for no charge.. Don't forget that concorde is an entirely different entity than all the corporations and empires and their standings towards you (security status) just mean that they won't help you if you get attacked (flashy red in high sec) and if they see you they will shoot you.. That's about it... All sec status is is your status with concorde, that's it. If you want to have something like expensive clones, or other silly stuff, it would only make sense to have it if it was given to you from concorde. Insurance and everything else is seperate from concorde also. What insurance company, and in this case cloning company as well, Is not going to charge you more money for actively picking an occupation where you are putting a ship and your clone deliberately into harms way. If your mining the rats are a by product of the threat. Mission runners hunt rats, technically more dangerous but still not getting the establishment against them as well as other players. (though in fairness i think they should get a slight rise as well) A pirate is activley going into combat, whilst making the enemy the establishment and putting their life in danger. Well as we know its not actually that much danger coz concorde suk, but it is still technically more danger, you are gradually making concorde more hostile to you and you are doing it by means of combat. Whether the insurance and clone companies are with concorde or not, they are going to charge you more or pay out alot less because you are a high risk. Thats it, simple as that. ------------------------------- bring back Eve TV
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:17:00 - [40] For a blatant answer from someone who is more likely to be on the wrong end of a Pirate myself: No. Maybe if you have really low standings with an Empire you cannot be allowed to have a clone stationed in one of THEIR Stations (like a Military Station) and perhaps Concord would not allow any Clones in any of their Stations for criminals but come'on the Pirates at least should be fully capable of bribing or threatening the other Corps into allowing them to have a Clone in their Station. Especailly in Low Sec. So yeah...Pirates sometimes could use a little more risk for isk but what you are talking about is just inane in its strength of punishment and not even fully realistic. I think making them globably flaggable would be faaaaar more fun myself. After all, usually you would want to kill your neighbore's predators under the thought that you may be next some day. Essentailly let the players police themselves more. But making the Pirate restart altogether? Never going to, and never should happen. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Archivian Specialatus Originally by: Acidictadpole [ 0.4 is a low security system. Hence concorde isn't going tocome to your rescue when you get attacked there.. the only concorde presence in low sec are in the form of sentries.. Since corporations don't really care about your sec status and just how many missions you've done for them, they would still allow you to have clones there for no charge.. Don't forget that concorde is an entirely different entity than all the corporations and empires and their standings towards you (security status) just mean that they won't help you if you get attacked (flashy red in high sec) and if they see you they will shoot you.. That's about it... All sec status is is your status with concorde, that's it. If you want to have something like expensive clones, or other silly stuff, it would only make sense to have it if it was given to you from concorde. Insurance and everything else is seperate from concorde also. What insurance company, and in this case cloning company as well, Is not going to charge you more money for actively picking an occupation where you are putting a ship and your clone deliberately into harms way. If your mining the rats are a by product of the threat. Mission runners hunt rats, technically more dangerous but still not getting the establishment against them as well as other players. (though in fairness i think they should get a slight rise as well) A pirate is activley going into combat, whilst making the enemy the establishment and putting their life in danger. Well as we know its not actually that much danger coz concorde suk, but it is still technically more danger, you are gradually making concorde more hostile to you and you are doing it by means of combat. Whether the insurance and clone companies are with concorde or not, they are going to charge you more or pay out alot less because you are a high risk. Thats it, simple as that. The only problem with this is that we Pod Pilots in general are seen as doing crazy stupid things ALL the time that most people would not even THINK about doing. So just by BEING a Pod Pilot the Insurance Company already assumes that you will be needing to collect fairly often because your line of occupation puts you in harms way ALL THE TIME even if you are just some High Sec Roid Farmer...Add to that keeping track of all of us would be a bit of a nightmare but perhaps repeated Concord Documented offenses would tend to lend you to higher charges...Then again Concord may want to keep those fees low...At least then they know where you are when they need to REALLY come and get you . +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:52:00 - [42] Edited by: Ryuga VonRhaiden on 10/12/2007 12:54:55 Originally by: Lungorthin Pirates should have the right to a clone just like everyone else. Pirate is no different an occupation as say Miner or Researcher The issue is a completely other, and that is that pirates are very hard to punish for they run and hide in NPC bases and are untouchable there. That should be fixed! Not the clones. Here's the point. You can kill, then you can run and you can hide. You should be allowed to run only, at least in low sec (there's another story in 0.0). You shouldn't be able to dock for 10-15 minutes after you flagged yourself (or have a really bad sec status). Say, you need 10 to 20 mins (skill?) to "break" into the stations docking systems and reset your negative status with that station. Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
Cerebrate Fate Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:07:00 - [43] This just sounds like some carebear who got his barge/exhumer killed and he's whining about pirating when he should have been watching local. Pirating is perfectly fine and nobody should be punished for having some good pirating fun.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:36:00 - [44] Originally by: SUNchaser In the next patch I think you should eliminate the availibility of clones for players that have exceeded a specified negative security rating so that when they die that character will die also. It would add realism to the game. Yeah, let's just delete their characters outright. However, to make it fair, let's make rats in missions as strong as 50 player-driven battleshipsfrigs/cruisers really are, so they web, scram, ewar and neut you and also pod you with interceptors later on. This would add realism to the game. Originally by:* SUNchaser Having been killed recently for the first time I realized that posting a bounty would be pretty ineffective because they could just get a friend of theirs to kill them, collect the bounty and then split the isk. Another scam. Yes, bounty system is broken. Originally by: SUNchaser I think player pirates add to the game but at this point see it as a low risk occupation. If one chooses to live on the dark side then certain benifits of civilized life should be withheld from them. Cloning being a major benifit. Excuse me, you noob with null knowledge of game mechanics. When you go to low-sec, you have sentries on your side. Attacking a pirate gang with your mates means that sentries don't attack you, but actually attack the pirate's friends if they try to assist him! Plus, to catch you in a camp, I need to have at least a battlecruiser to lock you down, meaning that you're quite safe in anything smaller then a cruiser and relatively safe. Against me with a sec status of -9.8, people can freely use interceptors, recons and preety much whatever they want. Do you know who loses the most ships in EvE? Pirates. Low-risk, eh? Do you know who can't go to high-sec and needs to pay 15$/month to get himself bigger ships or enlist other players to his aid? Pirates! Low-risk, eh? Originally by: SUNchaser If cloning was not availible then Player Pirates would be forced to RETRAIN a new character each time they are killed and thus be imposed a TIME penalty as well as the existing finacial penalty for choosing such an occupation. This is more closely with the process in the real world and provide a player value for posting bounties on these player pirates. I believe the EVE would be a much better game if CCP incorporated this aspect of the real world into out gaming universe. "Aspect of real world into our gaming universe" - riiight. What you're saying is, "let's DELETE pirates from the game". However, first we have to solve some unrealistic aspects of the game. First, there are NPC fleets in high-sec space. Since these clearly can't go there due to concord, they should be removed (all NPCs) and placed in low-sec and 0.0. Furthermore, NPCs should fight properly (meaning, web, scram, neuts, ewar, jumping capitals on your arse, nano-fits, the whole ball park) and pod you in the end. Realism sakes, you know? Originally by: SUNchaser As it is now the power Player Pirates wield is still disproportionate to what a majority of players in the game are able to wield without being forced to play the game the way THEY want to play it. Really? Player pirates have much more risk then any profession, and you have literally EVERY advantage fighting them. The only advantage we might have over you is better utilisation of the brain, but that's not my problem and definitely not a reason for CCP to delete my character. Your typical L4 mission runner makes more ISK. Originally by: SUNchaser Why do they get to dictate??? Today its only because they are protected by the system. Protected?!? Protected? You are protected by the system, you noob. Sentry guns, ability to go to high-sec, station guns, you don't get a criminal countdown when attacking me... what more do you want? For CCP to teach you to play? That's up to you. Rifters!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:38:00 - [45] Originally by: ZerKar I think making them globably flaggable would be faaaaar more fun myself. Pirates are globally flagged 100% of the time. In effect, everyone in EvE has a free wardec on my poor hide. What more do you want? Rifters!
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.10 22:43:00 - [46] well if they pod kill (as they do) according to the fluf they would be hated by all thereby they should not be allowed to have any clones in high sec, nor in low sec station so when you get podded as a pirate you go somewhere into 0.0 which is the only place they will accept you as long as you have under -0.5 standing.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:48:00 - [47] This topic is a nominee for the most redundant of the year... No risk in pirating? How about anyone being able to shoot you? How about sentry fire being directed at you when you do the same (and those who say 350dps is smalltime, why don't you try it yourselves?). The fact is that the state of piracy today is about as bad as it has been. Piracy as a profession used to be more profitable on a large scale. Now you really need to niche yourself and spend a lot of time planning. The economy was different, you used to make a lot of money just killing a ship with T2 mods, now T2 mods are worth squat. Which brings you to chasing mission runners. This of course works, but again it requires effort and timing. More effort and timing than any PvE-whiner does grinding the ISK vs. NPC:s any day. And then the pirates of course fight eachother using the same methodology as they do vs. any corp. Everyone is your enemy, and that's the way you chose it. But saying that the profession lacks risk is a false statement. Naturally, the "experts" in this thread on how easy it is to be a pirate have no clue whatsoever, and as they discredit nearly everyone who are pirates and call them idiots (lol, did some pirate kill you when you forgot to watch local now again?), you would think that it would not require whining threads on EVE-forums - would you? If piracy is so easy, and there are no consequences to it. Why don't you try it? Or are you afraid that you would STFU like you should upon facing the reality of it? Herro Kitty Online is that way -> - Recruitment open again-
Kurogauna	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:20:00 - [48] I am myself a pirate ... What is a pirate ? -> my 2 isks -> People who do the following things - Seek & destroy in low without any other purpose than looting your wreck - Ransoming corps (wardec), sometimes ships - Ninja salvaging - Suicide gank - Lofty scam - Can traps (both canflip and lure cans) - Contract scams and so on ... You got the idea ... don't flame please, i come in peace ^ ^ I think that disabling clones is a little hard since it affect skill points. Yes, i uderstand that killing a hauler can waste month of play and that loosing month of sp is fair... But... 1 I always managed to have a positive sec status (yup =) 2 The bounty system is still broken Check this thread, it is ideas about repairing the bounty system AND this idea can provide to haulers that got suicide ganked a good way of retaliation. ... The thread, read it please. Dont like baby blue ? Tell it to the devs HERE, Thanx.
Kaya Divine Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:16:00 - [49] Punishment yes, little harder maybe, but not such thing as loosing sp, because it will kill pirate profession. Punishment: is that whenever they brake a law, they increase chance of mercenary npc spawn and engage them....because it will in many cases be instant death to them they will get warning: if lets say in 0.1 sec " Mercenary`s are on their way, will arrive in 5min) Npc spawn in those areas will be 3x then detected gang...so if there is two carriers, npc will spawn 2 motherships, or titan. In many cases pirates will flee, and that will not destroy pirate profession but will make pirates more agile, and will prevent long gate camps. But still will be possible for smart pirates to do theirs thing. If they move gate camp, npc. will spawn, and will stay where they for 30mins, will be neutral towards most of players, but will be flashing red for pirates and theirs corp. members. 5minutes timer will be first timer, if pirates moved gate camp, and destroyed ship one jump away mercenary`s will come in 30sec, two jumps 1min...3 jumps 1.30min etc... Ofc, that kind of npc spawn will not be able to drop any loot or wrecks, will be bountyless. I consulted moralists to learn how to appear, philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.
marie blueprint	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:37:00 - [50] i dont lik pirats ..still say 'no' sorry
Undeadenemy	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:41:00 - [51] LOL I'm not even gonna bother arguing with the OP on this one because this is SOOOO stupid it's absurd.This is NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER going to happen. Now, please come into low-sec with your hauler please, I know some people who would just love to meet you. And btw, pirates get to dictate because we're better then you, and we decided a long time ago that we're making the rules. All I can say is that you better pray you never meet Miz Cenji, you can't hide from him in high sec, he'll bring his ass to you. One question though, how is it that you've been in the State War Academy for a year and a half and on the forums it says your with Doomheim. Either something is bugged or your posting on an alt because you fear retribution (smart of you).
Rhamnousia Caldari Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.12.11 06:49:00 - [52] Edited by: Rhamnousia on 11/12/2007 06:49:28 this is a game of Darwinism. The strong survives. If you want to survives, you have be to strong. Either that, or bring a **** load of friends. EVE is PvP-core. Not PvE-core. Adapt or die. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor. Forever Pelennor
Kurogauna	Posted - 2007.12.11 08:41:00 - [53] Edited by: Kurogauna on 11/12/2007 08:42:34 Originally by: Rhamnousia Edited by: Rhamnousia on 11/12/2007 06:49:28 this is a game of Darwinism. The strong survives. If you want to survives, you have be to strong. Either that, or bring a **** load of friends. EVE is PvP-core. Not PvE-core. Adapt or die. The darwinism let the adaptative and fertile races win the struggle, not the strong. Specialized strong creatures die if the system change. Dont like baby blue ? Tell it to the devs HERE, Thanx.
Drogher Forerunner	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:26:00 - [54] Pirates should definitely still be able to get clones even if they pirate (taking that away would just be dumb) Punishment should be: What we already have now + Higher clone prices (depending on how negative a pirate sec rating is) Higher insurance prices (depending on how negative a pirate sec rating is) Pirates should only have those effects in Empire Space. OR just fix the bounty system. Also: Things to be moved from hi-sec: 80%-90% of asteroid fields should be moved to low-sec and 0.0 80%-90% of missions should be moved to low-sec and 0.0 That way pirates can have more things to pew pew and will definitely deserve penalties.
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Acidictadpole Sec status is pretty much concordes standing towards you, so if anything you should have a tough time getting clones in concorde stations and nothing else. Not true. Concorde is the police officer hired and funded by all major corpartion and all four faction. If they don't like you, neither should their employee. Originally by: Cerebrate Fate This just sounds like some carebear who got his barge/exhumer killed and he's whining about pirating when he should have been watching local. Pirating is perfectly fine and nobody should be punished for having some good pirating fun. Totally agree. Pirating is actually really hard these day. Everyone have a build in counter to Pirate. It's called "local". In all honesty. Pirating is very difficult, your profession is entirely luck based. Mission runner will almost always get a steady income, and arguably trader/miner, even ratter will always eventually runs into rats. However, it is common for pirate to have no income at all for the whole day of work, while having to pay 100% attention on what they are doing at all time, instead of the afk mining/mission we see so often. Don't even get me started on trading. And it doesn't even pay you much anymore. T2 mods worth 1/10 of what it used to be. Rigs, and implants, the biggest expense on most ship these day, doesn't even left anything behind for the pirate. Their biggest source of income becoming mercanary and ransoming. Considering the price of a set of +4 implant (the most popular implants these day) you would be lucky to get 30 mil out of a pod. Even though you have no idea how difficult it is to lock down a pod. Ontop of all these, they have to worry about gate guns and station guns, everyone can attack them freely with their profession literally stamped on their forehead. They have to be on guard at all time. Mission runners, miner, etc, don't intereferes each other that much. But More often then not the biggest ememies of pirates are other pirates. Oh and, They can't go into empire to get reasonable priced supply. It is not uncommon at all for a pirate to need alts just to do supply, or paying over 20% premium to get ship/module ONE jump into low sec. Seriously, how much more risk can they take? I'm not a pirate, but I admire anyone who do this profession. It STILL is the most challenging and frustrating profession you can get compare to 0.0 gate campers and capital fleets.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:24:00 - [56] LET THE DEAD REST IN PEACE NECRO IS BAD MMMMKAY?! Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights. [url="http://myeve.eve-online.co
Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:56:00 - [57] I'd like to be able to shoot pirates without getting a sec status hit. That is all I ask. When I see someone with a negative sec status, and I'm have a positive sec status, I want Concord to stay out of it if I decide to attack. I realize that not everyone with a neg sec status is a pirate but if you have a neg sec status it means you violated concord's rules/laws and as a general rule Concord does not need to be worried about those folks. Attacking a neg sec status player anywhere should only start an agression timer. You are giving him notification that you consent to combat with him and that is it. No gun towers respond, no concord police show up, no sec status hits, just good ole 1 on 1 action until someone dies. If the neg sec status player wins he is free to go. (But he cannot pod the losing player) If the pos sec status player wins he can pod kill the neg sec status player with no punishment.
Undeadenemy	Posted - 2007.12.12 00:10:00 - [58] Where exactly have you been? You can legally attack true pirates (sec status below -5) on sight at any time for any reason, and you can pod them too. Bear in mind, that if you do, you will most likely die, and we don't fight one on one unless we have no other choice, so in that case your nice faction fitted battleship that you got from mission running is going boom.
Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2007.12.12 04:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Undeadenemy Where exactly have you been? You can legally attack true pirates (sec status below -5) on sight at any time for any reason, and you can pod them too. Bear in mind, that if you do, you will most likely die, and we don't fight one on one unless we have no other choice, so in that case your nice faction fitted battleship that you got from mission running is going boom. I'm talking about -0.1 - -4.9 sec pirates. I know I can go after pirates with -5.0 or less but for some reason they never come into empire space. But those pesky yellow pirates seem to fly around without a care in the world...
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:45:00 - [60] Originally by: Little Tigerlilly Originally by: Undeadenemy Where exactly have you been? You can legally attack true pirates (sec status below -5) on sight at any time for any reason, and you can pod them too. Bear in mind, that if you do, you will most likely die, and we don't fight one on one unless we have no other choice, so in that case your nice faction fitted battleship that you got from mission running is going boom. I'm talking about -0.1 - -4.9 sec pirates. I know I can go after pirates with -5.0 or less but for some reason they never come into empire space. But those pesky yellow pirates seem to fly around without a care in the world... They're not actually proper pirates, and most of them are ex-pirates who got their sec status up so they can go to high-sec once more - I know a fair bit of those. Anyone actively pirating goes under -5.0 in less then a week. If you really want to hunt people, go to low-sec. Rifters!

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