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Killgorde
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Posted - 2005.09.26 12:59:00 -
[1]
Today, the two corporations of Bladerunners [BLADE]and Cutting Edge Incorporated [CEI] have formally allied through the creation of the RAZOR Alliance [RZR]. Both corporations have been around since the early days of Eve and have long and distinguished histories throughout the Northern and Western regions of the Eve universe. At this point Razor is claiming no area of space, however we are active in securing the interests of a free and open Pure Blind region with a strong anti-pirate stance.
From this point forward, both corporations shall adhere to alliance standings, with a non-aggression policy towards neutrals.
Our politics are our own, but it is suffice to say that the following alliances will remain at negative standings: BOB/.5./FIX/SE/SA and ASCN Killgorde
CEO - Cutting Edge Incorporated
"I thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but it turned out to be some bastard with a torch in one hand and a ****load more work for me in the other" |
Cartiff
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:11:00 -
[2]
NBSI welcome this new and exciting alliance to the world of eve and look forward to helping in anyway we can
Cartiff, CEO Euphoria Released NBSI 4TW
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Mindblank
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:23:00 -
[3]
CEI are great guys! Blades are proud to fly together with you, not only as friends, but also as our trusted allies!
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HatePeace LoveWar
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:31:00 -
[4]
Aww and i was hoping we could be friends and have a tea party :(
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 26/09/2005 13:45:22
Will this new Alliance be contining to consider Jericho Fraction -10 KOS (forever) on the basis of our own friendly standings to third party corporations and alliances you have old feuds with?
(No disrespect intended but its rather ironic the first hostilities your new alliance is likely going to engage in is a fight against a fellow Non-neutral shooting freespace promoting corporation that has a history of honouring ROE and agreements and never pirating.)
Such is life.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:51:00 -
[6]
nice picture
Centuria > whoot? Centuria > you stalking me? :) -- Torpedo2k > I make my own cheeseburgers from the neighbors cats and dogs -- http://www.sub |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:52:00 -
[7]
Jasmine, I believe you already understand how we view JF's presence in the North and it's effects on Pure Blind. If not, try reading Atandros's thread again :)
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2005.09.26 13:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Karmae Jasmine, I believe you already understand how we view JF's presence in the North and it's effects on Pure Blind. If not, try reading Atandros's thread again :)
Just trying to get the word from the horse's mouth - after all this is a new alliance, I'm interested to see if you are going to be doing new things rather than just progressing old feuds. Hence my question. Its a public press release and its reasonable to ask directly no?
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.09.26 14:05:00 -
[9]
eve if in opposite sides of the battlefield, I must say GL.
...even if at -10, I still wub you guys from my JQA days -------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
Lowa
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Posted - 2005.09.26 15:26:00 -
[10]
Ooo... Very nice logo! Good luck guys and girls! Have fun, bring me movies!
Regards, LOWA
Contact Mercenary Coalition |
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Petite Pierre
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Posted - 2005.09.26 15:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lowa Ooo... Very nice logo! Good luck guys and girls! Have fun, bring me movies!
Regards, LOWA
Thank you for the nice words, Lowa. Coming from you, it means a lot. I was behind the logo ;)
--------------------
"With Bart, we laugh to keep the bile down. With Bugs, we just laughed." |
DISC0
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Posted - 2005.09.26 15:32:00 -
[12]
I am looking forward to working in our new Alliance, we have worked closely with Blades for a few months now, they are a skilled and fun bunch to work with.
And excellent work on the Banner Pierre :) Here, have a cookie.
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Karmae
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Posted - 2005.09.26 15:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Petite Pierre
Thank you for the nice words, Lowa. Coming from you, it means a lot. I was behind the logo ;)
He was behind the logo, but we had to airbrush him out of it!
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.09.26 15:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Karmae Jasmine, I believe you already understand how we view JF's presence in the North and it's effects on Pure Blind. If not, try reading Atandros's thread again :)
Actually, having re-read that thread, I'm still interested in a little clarification. From what I read, your -10 standings to us stem from:
1. Being friends with BOB and supporting Xelas against PA. 2. "Sticking our noses where they don't belong" according to SlightlyMad. Not entirely sure what this was in reference to, could be a re-run of #1, above. 3. You don't like our idea of freespace. 4. Our idea of freespace clashes with your own.
Now, #1 I could understand a little, though it seems to be that whole "hate who I hate or I'll shoot you" thing all over again. Can't comment on #2 since I really don't know what the heck it refers to. If it's because we post a lot on the forums about things we have a stake in, then I think that's a pretty dang flimsy excuse to base standings on. If it's #3, fine - tell us why our idea of freespace means we need to be shot. If it's #4, fine - tell us what your idea is, and why it necessitates shooting us to get it.
I look forward to some reasonably clear explanation for your current standings towards JF, as well as a reasonably clear explanation of what caused the change from the neutrality that was previously arranged. |
Noggy
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:12:00 -
[15]
Ladies
Could we please continue this on another thread? Stop ****ting on our parade FFS! This post is to inform people of the new alliance not another JF vs CEI/Blades thread. Thanks!
To others.. Please update your killboards with our new alliance.
back on topic, Its great to finally be in an alliance with good friends! And damn nice sig Pierre!
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SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:15:00 -
[16]
Can Jehrico Fraction members please keep out of this thread? If you want to discuss you corporations KOS status then do so in private diplomatic conversations.
Respect this thread and the intention behind it. Do not try to start a discussion drama that is all about you and your feelings
Thank you
-Sanity is for the weak |
Hijan
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:22:00 -
[17]
Nice sig Pierre. And i know we gonna have so much fun with u guys in Cutting Edge.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SlightlyMad If you want to discuss you corporations KOS status then do so in private diplomatic conversations.
The initial announcement stated that you were zeroing standings. That makes our question germane to this thread, especially since you decided to make us the exception to the rule and not bother inform us.
If you would like us to continue the discussion in private, then please provide us with diplomatic contacts so we can do so. Since your alliance has yet to notify anyone of the people whom they can contact to resolve such issues, this is the only way we currently have of making those issues known, now isn't it? |
Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: SlightlyMad Can Jehrico Fraction members please keep out of this thread? If you want to discuss you corporations KOS status then do so in private diplomatic conversations.
Tried that, got nowhere and was ignored. In response to a polite and reasonable evemail query I received precisely no clarification or discussion whatsoever so don't bother suggesting I take it up privately since its clear you have no intention to answer private questions.
Hence when you NOW publicly announce you are an "anti-pirate neutral respecting free Pureblind" alliance I think I have a right to ask you the questions you aren't prepared to answer by private comms.
Reason being from where I am sitting you aren't neutral-respecting anti-pirates, you are just another face for a continuing feud that started last year.
If this is a false impression then please feel free to explain my mistake to me.
And by the by, I direct you to look at the responses your members posted in our last thread on this forum before acting all high and mighty and trying to claim we are wrecking yours.
We are asking reasonable questions in response to a public Press Announcement.
1. If you wanted this to be non-interactive you should have posted it on your website rather than on galnet.
2. If you wanted no discussion and only praise you should have posted it on the recruitment forum.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Kallanagh Tellen
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Posted - 2005.09.26 16:29:00 -
[20]
Myself and the rest of the Auxiliary would like to wish you the best of luck in your new endeavour, we look forward to seeing the battle statistics soon.
Lord Commodore of the Fleet
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.09.26 17:15:00 -
[21]
Good luck to new alliance! -=-
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juduzz
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Posted - 2005.09.26 17:26:00 -
[22]
GL guys give them scurvy pirates a run for there money *cough*, did i just say that ? ;/
Any all the best,which 2 top notch corps like CEI and Blades you cant go wrong plus your alliance ticker is kool \o/ ---------------------------------------------- My vid(s) http://www.eve-files.com/media/07/VIDSKIE.wmv |
Eversor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 17:30:00 -
[23]
Congrats!!! Good luck everyone in CEI and Blades.
I am sure RAZOR will have a very positive impact in the stability of Pure Blind. And cool logo, btw.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.26 18:26:00 -
[24]
I think I summarise my corperations feeling when I say: Bring it
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.09.26 18:38:00 -
[25]
Maya, we'll try And to the rest, thanks for your good luck wishes. With blades on our side I'm quite confident this will be a good time.
And for Jasmine. I've just had a chat with Tatsue ingame. You can contact me too if you want to clarify things for CEI.
I'm sorry that we ruined your thread. But revenge has been had from your side so I would hope we could move on with shooting and talking ingame.
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Mad Mackem
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Posted - 2005.09.26 18:43:00 -
[26]
Best of Luck from all your friends in IRON.
Kind Regards
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2005.09.26 19:11:00 -
[27]
It'll be fun flying with blades more often. ---
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Yolan
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:05:00 -
[28]
Congratulations on the formation of Razor from us north easterners in F-E
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:14:00 -
[29]
Hey. Just wanted to clear all the gunky negativeness that's been up between "us" and "them" and wish you good look on your endeavors.
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Korthan
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:20:00 -
[30]
Hoorah for the Alliance! Now we can do away with all those pesky "in between" comm channels lol
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Marlhog Karhigor
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:24:00 -
[31]
It is my honor and pleasure to say welcome in the name of the Phoenix Alliance.
Makes yourselves a home, ladies and gents, and feel free to ask if you need help!
Marlhog Karhigor [LDAG] PA PRESS OFFICER
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Vegas
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Posted - 2005.09.26 21:37:00 -
[32]
like the alliance name
GL chaps
Quote: a) You were "boarding" your pod... which is admittedly rather silly since technically you never left it.
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WdoMkr
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Posted - 2005.09.26 22:08:00 -
[33]
DEFINATELY looking forward to our new endeavors with CEI. Glad as hell the logo turned out as well as it did, i feel i can now be bothered to fly about with Disco and Fred0 -----------------------------------------------
"Birthdays are good for you, the more you have the longer you live." |
Voltron
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Posted - 2005.09.26 22:14:00 -
[34]
GL guys, sweet banner and alliance name
Volt
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IamBen
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Posted - 2005.09.26 23:23:00 -
[35]
gl with the new alliance from the East
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DISC0
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Posted - 2005.09.27 02:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: WdoMkr i feel i can now be bothered to fly about with Disco and Fred0
Wouldn't want to put you out, would it make it easier if I sent you on some suicide missions?
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.09.27 02:35:00 -
[37]
Politics aside, good luck in your new venture.
The logo + wordplay behind it is an awesome combo! -
The Fox, the Rock, and the Buzzard |
Mr Needa
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Posted - 2005.09.27 05:16:00 -
[38]
Fun times ahead _______________________________________________
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Andris
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Posted - 2005.09.27 05:31:00 -
[39]
Good luck in your new alliance, you are a good bunch to fly with :) |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.09.27 05:53:00 -
[40]
I wish you well.
As I have always been I have been interested in shareing ideas and viewpoints.
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Imran
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Posted - 2005.09.27 06:18:00 -
[41]
Always have had much respect for BLADE/CEI, best of luck guys.
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Madswede
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Posted - 2005.09.27 07:32:00 -
[42]
Best of luck my friends!
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Kusotarre
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Posted - 2005.09.27 08:58:00 -
[43]
W-WHO JAMMED ME?
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christoforos
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Posted - 2005.09.27 10:18:00 -
[44]
Best of luck to the new alliance.
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PedroFTW
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:17:00 -
[45]
/me salutes Blades and CEI
GL and kick some for me ok?
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:21:00 -
[46]
Holy schmoeses NICE BANNER!
Gl and cya in 5xzz :)
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
WilfredTheSmart
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Posted - 2005.09.27 13:24:00 -
[47]
g/l chaps
Is this the NEW NEW PA ? Perhaps a new thread....
Have fun anyway
See you in space ...
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2005.09.27 14:23:00 -
[48]
Weee im back and im bad... and slightly is madder than ever before
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
unos
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Posted - 2005.09.27 14:58:00 -
[49]
Welcome guys!!
Good luck with this new alliance! I'm sure you two can pack a punch!
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2005.09.27 15:12:00 -
[50]
btw... who let WdoMkr out? didnt he runaway with the other animals to Madagaskar?
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
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PedroFTW
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Posted - 2005.09.27 15:31:00 -
[51]
Well if Raven is back i see some interesting s**t happening soon....
/me is happy to see Raven back from
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Trefnis
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:03:00 -
[52]
Good Luck guys!!!
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Eversor
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Raven DeBlade Weee im back and im bad... and slightly is madder than ever before
Glad to see you back in game. Hope the vacation was fun.
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SageOfMystery
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:46:00 -
[54]
good luck guys, not that youll need it or anything.
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Xrak
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Posted - 2005.09.28 01:27:00 -
[55]
GL guys
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Sylva Moon
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Posted - 2005.09.28 04:48:00 -
[56]
CEI=Good pilots from what dealings ive had with ya'll, best of luck in your new alliance
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Tara Armitage
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Posted - 2005.09.28 06:09:00 -
[57]
That is a nice banner right there.
Good luck with the project, except for the part that involves shooting us.
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Blueblooded
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Posted - 2005.09.28 07:24:00 -
[58]
This should be fun
*me log in and finds...an Alliance chat* ----------------------------------------
"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Shittake
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Posted - 2005.09.28 08:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: ****take on 28/09/2005 08:51:59 I am very familiar with Bladerunners and NOT ver faimiliar with Cutting Edge BUT you guys and the RAZONR alliance get my instant seal of approval for your operations in Pure Blind.
We all know Pure Blind region to be a pirate-infested region, just look at Jericho Fraction and their unwitting nubtard henchmen in Omerta (thinks of a bad Batman episode from the early 1970s with Jade being the joer and Omerta being the stupid fat guys in matching T-shirts).
Bladerunners are a "class act" and if they allie with Cutting Edge, I'm sure they are just as classy.
Good luck to youg guys :)
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2005.09.28 09:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ****take Edited by: ****take on 28/09/2005 08:51:59
We all know Pure Blind region to be a pirate-infested region, just look at Jericho Fraction and their unwitting nubtard henchmen in Omerta (thinks of a bad Batman episode from the early 1970s with Jade being the joer and Omerta being the stupid fat guys in matching T-shirts).
Let's hope they act a little classier than some people.
------- K. Raven
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.09.28 11:32:00 -
[61]
Thanks again guys. The logo has been spruced up abit further by Pierre.
Octavian Vanguard [OV] are old friends that have officially joined us in the ingame alliance after being old friends and flying with us for weeks now. If you thought us and BLADE were nice guys, wait until you get to know these.
Another lucky update is that Mordu's Legion might be increasing their cooperation with us. But you can read more about that on the GalNet official news centre.
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Yamabushi
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Posted - 2005.09.28 11:32:00 -
[62]
very nice anouncment pic
http://asuya.eve-killboard.net/
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.28 12:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: ****take Edited by: ****take on 28/09/2005 08:51:59 I am very familiar with Bladerunners and NOT ver faimiliar with Cutting Edge BUT you guys and the RAZONR alliance get my instant seal of approval for your operations in Pure Blind.
We all know Pure Blind region to be a pirate-infested region, just look at Jericho Fraction and their unwitting nubtard henchmen in Omerta (thinks of a bad Batman episode from the early 1970s with Jade being the joer and Omerta being the stupid fat guys in matching T-shirts).
Bladerunners are a "class act" and if they allie with Cutting Edge, I'm sure they are just as classy.
Good luck to youg guys :)
Yea, a SPECIAL class. Same place you belong, with your stupid alliance name.
Here's a hint: JF and Omerta could not even by the remotest stretch to anyone even remotely sane could NOT be described as pirates.
DIE are pirates. JF are a corp with different goals to you. Nice trick getting some people to be meatshields in PB, but don't try and spin your clueless smack when there are people with intelligence arround, there are more holes in it than swiss cheese.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.09.28 13:53:00 -
[64]
In accordance with the wishes of the posting alliance, Jericho Fraction has opted to debate the meaning of 'free space' as RAZOR understands it in another place.
The analysis to be found there was written before the announcement above of the formal union of Octavian Vanguard with the other corporations of RAZOR.
We happily include them in the scope of the debate as RAZOR members and continuing foes.
The Cosmopolite On behalf of Jericho Fraction
Jericho Fraction |
jarack
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Posted - 2005.09.28 21:17:00 -
[65]
Ooooh nice pic
also CEI great corp , had some good fights with them down in syndicate with my old alliance
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Dave Toz
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Posted - 2005.09.29 09:55:00 -
[66]
Good Look RAZOR.
a Class set of Corps, keep the north free of pirates and Troublemaking corps.
oh and Welcome back Raven :)
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Mephistos
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Posted - 2005.09.29 12:14:00 -
[67]
Yay, Raven's back :)
Good luck with the new alliance folks, and have fun :)
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2005.09.30 15:56:00 -
[68]
GL Fred and the rest of you guys. Nice pilots when theyre not in the oppositions gang. Did Num ever actually speak to you?
And you guys + OV...I'm going to shut up before I get in trouble.
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Vehestian
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Posted - 2005.09.30 17:29:00 -
[69]
'grats on the alliance RZR people! Great pic too, as they say
(Yeah, Kinsy, someone's bound to get heated if we talk too much)
Best luck with your endeavors RZR.
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Nuclear Option
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Posted - 2005.09.30 18:11:00 -
[70]
Yay, fear for your roids people.
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ElricUK
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Posted - 2005.09.30 19:32:00 -
[71]
Edited by: ElricUK on 30/09/2005 19:31:52 Good luck to Blades, CEI and the future members of Razor.
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unforg1ven
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Posted - 2005.10.01 17:13:00 -
[72]
Good Luck Blades& CEI!
Nice to see you back Raven ZaBlade
ROMANIA |
Jeltz
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Posted - 2005.10.05 18:21:00 -
[73]
GL Blades and CEI. Are you back for real Raven?
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NI Reba
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Posted - 2005.10.05 19:16:00 -
[74]
So I am confused..you are anti-pirate..but support the pirates in pure-blind like iron and G..hmmm very strange
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2005.10.08 21:58:00 -
[75]
Grats.
And welcome back RavenD |
Sucram
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Posted - 2005.10.09 11:38:00 -
[76]
Good luck guys... ********************
******************** Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Clipped Wings
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Posted - 2005.10.11 12:36:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Clipped Wings on 11/10/2005 12:36:34 Out of curiosity:
Does Razor Alliance consider 3rd Front Alliance as either troublemakers or pirates, considering CEI seems to retain a KOS policy on our pilots, in spite of our anti-pirate stance?
Or is it just old grudges and so on?
Just wondering, as it seems to sit somewhat oddly with Razor's professed anti-pirate outlook on life in space. (And oh...the day I'd ask if we were to be slated the same way as Jericho Faction. Who'd have thunk it? ;)
**Edit** Just to clarify: I am referring to the incidents in lower Syndicate, naturally. **/Edit**
-Clipped Wings of LFC
"I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man."
~William Hazlitt
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.11 14:26:00 -
[78]
That would be troublemaker for you Mr. Wings. Active and continued cooperation with 5ive/OSS is something that we dislike and will get you shot. Feel free to contact me for switching sides
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hangovur
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Posted - 2005.10.11 16:17:00 -
[79]
could we get an official stance on the conin/ass/freeks/other insignifigant corps allied w/ them group. i know bladerunners are hostile to conin while cei was/is friendly. maybe an official alliance stance?
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Petite Pierre
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Posted - 2005.10.11 17:01:00 -
[80]
Originally by: hangovur could we get an official stance on the conin/ass/freeks/other insignifigant corps allied w/ them group. i know bladerunners are hostile to conin while cei was/is friendly. maybe an official alliance stance?
RAZOR's politics are its own, but as far as known pirate and satellite corporations go, they are definetely set to negative standings. CEI have never been friendly to Armoured Assasins.
I don't know if you were around back when the Lower Syndicate Dominion existed, Mr. hangovur, but i'm sure your CEO would be more than informed about CEI, and where we stand in this matter. --------------------
"With Bart, we laugh to keep the bile down. With Bugs, we just laughed." |
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Defcon2
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Posted - 2005.10.11 18:18:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Defcon2 on 11/10/2005 18:20:47
Quote: conin/ass/freeks/other insignifigant corps
Now now was that really called for?, besides, if we're so "insignifigant" why do you want to know?
On topic, gl guys OV and CEI both have very good pilots |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.11 19:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: hangovur could we get an official stance on the conin/ass/freeks/other insignifigant corps allied w/ them group. i know bladerunners are hostile to conin while cei was/is friendly. maybe an official alliance stance?
They are hostile. -ASS- are the archetypical enemy of Razor. Random gatecampers shooting everything. As such the whole group will get shot naturally. While it is true CONIN used to friends to CEI for a very short while. As soon as it dawned upon us what Maro really was up to they were back on negative standings.
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hangovur
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Posted - 2005.10.11 21:15:00 -
[83]
Originally by: hangovur could we get an official stance on the conin/ass/freeks/other insignifigant corps allied w/ them group. i know bladerunners are hostile to conin while cei was/is friendly. maybe an official alliance stance?
i do apologize if this was misunderstood. that was not meant to say that conin/ass/freeks were insignifigant; i was referring to the smaller corps that are allied with you who have 1-5 active members in the area.
and petite, i was very active in LSD, its just that i (as well as others) had you blocked due to the constant bickering back and forth between our corps (i dont want to get into that again, lets just not go there).
and from this statement i have to ask, if you (cei) have had some revelation as to conin why are you still bitter at us for leaving LSD after everyone (cept conin really) left? from what i understand the reason you disliked us was your ?loyalty? to conin? we have had a brief friendly relationship w/ bladerunners (during wars w/ conin) and so im confused as to why RAZOR would be so hostile towards us.
dont get me wrong, i have enjoyed the few engagements we have had, but im a bit baffled at the whole situation. and, lets please try to keep this civil, i am asking relevent questions and am not trying to flame.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.11 21:49:00 -
[84]
Now we are truely straying from teh subject. But ok. There was never any loyalty from CEI towards conin. Only reason we were helping LSD, we were never formal members of that alliance is that we were friends with OV, which we still are, better than ever.
Secondly I have good memories of ganging up with LIH killing Requiem, Black omega, that nz merc corp and so on. But when you switched sides to LFC/Black omega side you became targets. and along the same line, when we discovered that contraband were gatecamping rats, we put them on -10 at once.
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hangovur
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Posted - 2005.10.11 21:59:00 -
[85]
thank you for clearing that up fredo. i look forward to some nice battles.
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.10.12 09:17:00 -
[86]
So let me get this straight....
You are hostile with BOS for realising that conin and solstice (now just conin for the most part as most of the scummy solstice joined conin) are a bunch of backstabbing gate camping pirates a few weeks before you did, and are going to penalise 3FA for being our friends?
With the OSS and 3FA regularly engaging conin/ass etc it seems that it's you that needs to consider what side you're on... and to think about why you were hostile with us to begin with ;)
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.12 10:00:00 -
[87]
Tolon, if you look at the initial statement from Killgorde you will see 5 listed there. The alliances listed there form the biggest single agressive entity we've ever seen and as such will all be shot on sight.
I hope that clears it up. I've sent you a further clarifying eve-mail.
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.10.12 11:44:00 -
[88]
Edited by: KIATolon on 12/10/2005 11:44:13 I think you need to reconsider your policies.
Your corp coming up to shoot miners and camping systems sounds more like pirate activity than any of the behaviour of the OSS/3FA corps.
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Petite Pierre
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Posted - 2005.10.12 12:29:00 -
[89]
So the smoke of my guns is the same colour as a pirate's ? My, never thought it would be possible. And if we're ganking miners, i do hope you had miner2's fitted on your tempest. --------------------
"With Bart, we laugh to keep the bile down. With Bugs, we just laughed." |
KIATolon
|
Posted - 2005.10.12 14:48:00 -
[90]
Quote: oh look at my epeen.
No wonder your own alliance has you on ignore ;)
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.12 15:47:00 -
[91]
Originally by: KIATolon ...and are going to penalise 3FA for being our friends?
This is the policy of RAZOR in a nutshell, Tolon. If you like who they hate, regardless of whether you are supporting/NAP'd/allied/cheer from the peanut stand/whatever. In fact, if you *don't* hate who they hate, they shoot you.
Kinda sad, really.
Architect of Change |
Fred0
|
Posted - 2005.10.12 17:39:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Fred0 on 12/10/2005 17:39:50
Originally by: Fred0 That would be troublemaker for you Mr. Wings. Active and continued cooperation with 5ive/OSS is something that we dislike and will get you shot. Feel free to contact me for switching sides
Quoted for veskrashen who is too lazy to read. I don't think neither OSS nor 3fa will deny that they actively cooperate tbh. That's why tolon says friends.
But I understand that friends in your world veskrashen in this instance when your agenda is to try and nail razor on the forums actually is translated to neutral. More spin for the win i guess...
I think our definition of who or what is sad also differs btw
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:01:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Veskrashen
Originally by: KIATolon ...and are going to penalise 3FA for being our friends?
This is the policy of RAZOR in a nutshell, Tolon. If you like who they hate, regardless of whether you are supporting/NAP'd/allied/cheer from the peanut stand/whatever. In fact, if you *don't* hate who they hate, they shoot you.
Kinda sad, really.
Quoted for Fred0 who is too lazy to read, uses too many negatives in the same sentence and would do well to not cast aspersions about other people's reading when his own is so poor.
Where does Vesk characterise the relationship between those organisations as one of neutrality in his post? I'll tell you, precisely nowhere. That's why he starts his second sentence with 'If you like who they hate [...]'.
Who's spinning now? That's right, Fred0, you are. Wonkily, probably a bit too fast and sorely needing some oil to sort out that squeaking noise, but spinning nonetheless.
Anyway, nice to see you practising standings enclosurism out in the open. Also nice to see how you enjoy stirring up trouble away from Pure Blind, the region of which you claim to be the 'guardians' and which you claim you're trying to build up as a region free of strife. The approach of going down to Syndicate and warring on the locals and any Southerners you see seems to me to be a funny one with respect to securing Pure Blind.
I imagine it provides an outlet for the urges of some of your members but no-one takes an 'anti-pirate' alliance that likes to play away particularly seriously. It's been seen before too many times.
The Cosmopolite
Voice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:17:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Fred0 Edited by: Fred0 on 12/10/2005 17:39:50
Originally by: Fred0 That would be troublemaker for you Mr. Wings. Active and continued cooperation with 5ive/OSS is something that we dislike and will get you shot. Feel free to contact me for switching sides
Quoted for veskrashen who is too lazy to read. I don't think neither OSS nor 3fa will deny that they actively cooperate tbh. That's why tolon says friends.
Oh, I never claimed they were neutral. Not once, and won't bother. I fully and totally without reservation stipulate that 3FA/OSS/whoever like .5. and may even actively fly around with them.
What I *did* say, however, and which you conveniently dodged, was that you base your standings and actions not on *who they are* or *what they've done to you*, but who they like or don't like, or more importantly - who they refuse to dislike simply because you do.
The fact that you go so far out of your way, abandoning the "duty" you set forth for yourself in Pure Blind to do so, just makes it all the more amusing to watch.
Architect of Change |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:42:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Veskrashen What I *did* say, however, and which you conveniently dodged, was that you base your standings and actions not on *who they are* or *what they've done to you*, but who they like or don't like, or more importantly - who they refuse to dislike simply because you do.
Amazing, suffice to say we're back again on square one. Provide proof for your blatant lies pls.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:45:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Fred0 on 12/10/2005 19:48:26
Originally by: The Cosmopolite Where does Vesk characterise the relationship between those organisations as one of neutrality in his post? I'll tell you, precisely nowhere. That's why he starts his second sentence with 'If you like who they hate [...]'.
Actually, for me he quite clearly tries to say that if you read on. (the context he replied in. An exchange between me and tolon) That I called him on his blatant lie does not mean you can just take it back and base your counterargument around his foundation instead of conclusion.
EDIT: clarification
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:02:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Fred0
Originally by: Veskrashen What I *did* say, however, and which you conveniently dodged, was that you base your standings and actions not on *who they are* or *what they've done to you*, but who they like or don't like, or more importantly - who they refuse to dislike simply because you do.
Amazing, suffice to say we're back again on square one. Provide proof for your blatant lies pls.
Very well:
Originally by: Fred0 That would be troublemaker for you Mr. Wings. Active and continued cooperation with 5ive/OSS is something that we dislike and will get you shot. Feel free to contact me for switching sides
...in which, you state that the reason you have 3FA - an alliance which to my knowledge has never attacked you or your member corporations - set to KOS is because they like 5ive/OSS. Because you have provided no proof of their support of 5ive/OSS against you - as opposed to cooperation against mutual -10s - we have no reason at all to assume that their cooperation with 5ive/OSS has ever had any impact on you or your alliance.
Thus, your standings are based on who they like, rather than who they are (an anti-pirate alliance on the opposite side of the cluster) or what they have done to you (precisely nothing, from what I've seen).
QED.
Architect of Change |
Sypher313
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:06:00 -
[98]
oh noes Razor is being attacked by the 2-Year-old brigade
"why" "why" "how come" "i dunn understand"
bah
they shoot who they shoot, they stated why, now you feel the need to argue their "logic", you wont get it or agree with it.
Get over it and shoot each other ffs
oh and congrats RAZOR cool banner.
oh and maybe you can lend the RAZOR to JF so they can slit their wr....
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.10.13 01:24:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Clipped Wings Does Razor Alliance consider 3rd Front Alliance as either troublemakers or pirates, considering CEI seems to retain a KOS policy on our pilots, in spite of our anti-pirate stance?
**Edit** Just to clarify: I am referring to the incidents in lower Syndicate, naturally. **/Edit**
Quote: That would be troublemaker for you Mr. Wings. Active and continued cooperation with 5ive/OSS is something that we dislike and will get you shot. Feel free to contact me for switching sides
Has Syndicate been officially included inside the PureBlind RAZORS's claim to guard?
- -
The Fox, the Rock, and the Buzzard |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.13 02:54:00 -
[100]
Syndicate is not related to our Pure Blind operations. CEI have conducted operations in that area since early this year initially assisting the local alliances in dealing with the pirate problems of the area (with great success). Much has changed within the region in, what, 10 months now? It remains a turbulent area.
JF's commentary on such matters is null and void simply due to their overall ignorance of anything that doesn't fit their theories (as verbose as they may be).
Jericho; It's teh funneh that you feel the need to jump on every chance to screw us on the forums that you get. Perhaps you haven't really received the message that your actions/inactions speak far louder than your words. If you want to promote freespace, then, please... do something to make it happen rather than simply using it as rhetoric for your vendettas (tip: Camping with neutral-ganking pirates isn't conducive towards free space).
Veskrashen; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps since we have not seen you anywhere in Pure Blind or Syndicate that your qualification to comment on such matters is somewhat limited in perspective. Consequently with your posts in this and Cosmopolites flamebait threads, we regard it the words of naivety and narrow-mindedness for 0.0 affairs rather than any overt attempt at discreditation.
==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.13 03:43:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Karmae JF's commentary on such matters is null and void simply due to their overall ignorance of anything that doesn't fit their theories (as verbose as they may be).
Show me where I was factually incorrect in my statement then. Fred0 stated that 3FA was KOS because they had .5. at +10. If this is incorrect, by all means enlighten me. If not, then my statement stands.
Quote: Jericho; It's teh funneh that you feel the need to jump on every chance to screw us on the forums that you get. Perhaps you haven't really received the message that your actions/inactions speak far louder than your words.
You're absolutely right here. Our refusal to back down in the face of pressure from 4 alliances, our refusal to turn our back on our friends and refusal to break a deal speak quite a bit louder than your inability to hide your territorialist aspirations and your inability to keep true to your word.
Quote: Veskrashen; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps since we have not seen you anywhere in Pure Blind or Syndicate that your qualification to comment on such matters is somewhat limited in perspective.
Really? That wasn't a RAZOR/IRON/OPUS fleet of 10 or so pilots that popped our mobile warp disruptor in X7 tonite? Of course, they may have missed me floating 15km away, since I was cloaked... guess I can forgive you for that.
As for Syndicate, no - got no idea what you do down there, other than what your alliance says here. And frankly, I don't care. Fred0 asked for proof of my statements, and I fed him his own words. Nothing more, nothing less. Pointing out his inconsitent rhetoric even within the same thread doesn't require residency in any particular region now does it?
Architect of Change |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.10.13 05:44:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Karmae Syndicate is not related to our Pure Blind operations. CEI have conducted operations in that area since early this year initially assisting the local alliances in dealing with the pirate problems of the area (with great success). Much has changed within the region in, what, 10 months now? It remains a turbulent area.
...hence my previous question.
Since the OP of this thread stated that:
Quote: At this point Razor is claiming no area of space, however we are active in securing the interests of a free and open Pure Blind region with strong anti-pirate stance.
(added underline)
without mentioning Syndicate, yet a CEI director (Fred0) has stated that hostilities toward other entities are based on said entities actions in Syndicate and not in PureBind, I was wondering if CEI and/or RAZOR has decided to officially expand their anti-pirate efforts into Syndicate, too?
So, I'll reword my question:
-has RAZOR officially included Syndicate inside the regions (such as PureBlind) where they will pursue their anit-pirates activities?
-has RAZOR officially included "troublemakers" (a term used by on of your Directors) as the goal of its anti-pirate efforts?
(a definition of "trublemakers" would be nice, the way Fred0 used it looks like it means "friendly to pirate corporations", but that is a somewhat vague notion) -
The Fox, the Rock, and the Buzzard |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:38:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Ly''sol on 13/10/2005 08:42:02
Quote: Jericho; It's teh funneh that you feel the need to jump on every chance to screw us on the forums that you get.
seems your pretty capable of doing that yourselves.
Karmae,
Darlin...I would hope that you could understand that activly meddleing in the affairs (simply over who they choose as friends) of people who want nothing to do with you is not freespace.
Jericho Fraction like it or not has been pushing and prodding for years over this. What you see as us defaming you and not doing anything for a common push towards our goals for freespace is quite the oppositte.
For you to be a True freespace alliance you see to your own. And not police other corps. My comrades, regardless of how many times they have been inciteful in your eyes, have caught the alliance in several stumbles of its own polices.
So the question is, how long is the alliance going to keep up this facade of something it is not. Rather than feuding with us like childeran. Perhaps headway could be made if you simply agree to disagree on our individual points.
Jericho Fraction has brought up several points of the policies that RAZOR is following that contradicts what the alliance is saying.
So if the Alliance isnt what it says it is. Then why not just be consitant in the purpose (refer to my signature please.).
I believe your alliance believes in the herd mentaility of security over freedom. And claiming security in the north will mean freedom. Everything that JF has been fighting for and spreading is the exact opposite of that.
Im hearing "**** stop smearing us." Then what kind of reaction did you expect when an alliance claims to be something it isnt. And there is a reactionary freespace corp that hears it?
Philosophicly this is some of the stuff I wanted to speak with you people about to clear things up. However one bad apple spoils the whole goulash, and the alliance chose to back down away from the conversation.
I think I can say for most of us when I say, we will give RAZOR a break when it comes 100% straight. It wont stop the fact we will be inherently against you because our policies are nothing alike. But aleast being honest will maybe stop us from trying to trip you up at every turn.
<Inhales and takes in a cool breath>
Fred0,
Still waiting on our conversation.
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:53:00 -
[104]
Quote: Syndicate is not related to our Pure Blind operations. CEI have conducted operations in that area since early this year initially assisting the local alliances in dealing with the pirate problems of the area (with great success). Much has changed within the region in, what, 10 months now? It remains a turbulent area.
We kicked CEI and all their friends out of syndicate because they moved in and started attacking the locals, now they've been reduced to frigate raids. Anything bigger and they usually start playing the log on, log off game.
Considering CEI also admit that a lot of the people they were up there to "help" are now -10 for being pirates... I would be very careful with your propaganda.
You guys came up to the home we won... tried to kick out the people we asked to look after the area. They asked for BOS help and we came up and helped. Within 2 weeks of BOS turning up (it is worth noting at this point that blind vengeance and requiem inc were also in syndicate as mercs against LSD and doing a LOT of great work) everyone "left" except the four horseman left the area. CEI leaving a few days before everyone else.
BOS had some enjoyable fights with CEI, but they were the ones up here terrorising people with their pirate friends...not the other way round.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:55:00 -
[105]
Lysol, You will not get that discussion. And from my point of view that's because you are unable to have it. You had once chance but as soon as I gave you that we have 5+ JF dragging that conversation out of the CEI boards onto here and trying to pick it apart. I don't take lightly to character assasination.
This latest discussion now is between Razor and 3FA / OSS. I've replied to them both ingame and both seem perfectly happy with our reasons.The fact that you take our words and twist them on these forums here just adds to the fact that one can't have a healthy discussion with you.
Just a small example is Veskrashen here now. I've repeatedly said actively cooperate while he continues to ignore it and claims we are are something else. This kind of discussion is not something we wish to take part in.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.13 09:29:00 -
[106]
Originally by: KIATolon ...CEI leaving a few days before everyone else.
BOS had some enjoyable fights with CEI, but they were the ones up here terrorising people with their pirate friends...not the other way round.
Well we were allied to what was once called LSD. We came there without being part of the official alliance however. We came there to help out friends. And we were pretty open to everyone that we might not be able to stay. The reason was that a major invastion was expected in Fade/Deklein/Pure Blind/Venal. The friday that invasion was executed by bob/5 (including bos) we packed our stuff and headed home to help defend it. Looking at our records this happened around the 22nd of May.
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.10.13 10:02:00 -
[107]
As I said, we enjoyed fighting you all. However, to suggest that your campaign up there was very succesful when the attempt of yourself and your friends to kick out TFC failed, is untrue in my opinion.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.13 10:12:00 -
[108]
Absolutely right tolon. LSD was never properly established and it folded shortly after LIH switched sides. We didn't accomplish what we set out to do. We can't argue that and if someone from our sides says otherwise they are wrong. Now again we are straying though so I'll just leave it at admitting that.
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.10.13 10:33:00 -
[109]
It's very rare to hear someone say that the job didn't get done, without a string of excuses and accusations following.
Much respect.
And good luck with your new venture.
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Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.13 10:40:00 -
[110]
Originally by: KIATolon As I said, we enjoyed fighting you all. However, to suggest that your campaign up there was very succesful when the attempt of yourself and your friends to kick out TFC failed, is untrue in my opinion.
To be fair, there has been a lot of good fights and some impressive maneuvers by your guys Tolon. There is more to what we've done in Syndicate than the previous LSD alliance support. Months before that we were assisting the local alliances in clearing a rat-problem from Y9G which demonstrably worked; ASS relocated elsewhere after a relentless combat campaign spread over maybe 2-3 months. That's what I've referred to as successful.
LSD alliance, however, fell apart quite quickly for it's own reasons soon after we urgently pulled our pilots back to Pure Blind to deal with the invasion taking place in that region.
==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.13 12:36:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Fred0 Just a small example is Veskrashen here now. I've repeatedly said actively cooperate while he continues to ignore it and claims we are are something else. This kind of discussion is not something we wish to take part in.
And as I've said, unless you have some sort of proof or example where they "actively supported" against *you*, then their friendship/alliance/support/etc hasn't had any direct impact on you. Hence, your reasons for attacking them are not any action against *you*, but instead their standings towards a 3rd party.
If you wish to ignore that, fine. If you wish to deny that, I'll laugh.
Architect of Change |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.13 13:16:00 -
[112]
Ofcourse we do. Several nights for many hours they've moved their fleets together to counter us. But it's not something I'll care to discuss with you. In fact, I would be severely surprised if they tried to argue it. Let me see if I can get Clipped wings or Tolon here to tell you that you are a retard.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.13 13:42:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Fred0 Ofcourse we do. Several nights for many hours they've moved their fleets together to counter us. But it's not something I'll care to discuss with you. In fact, I would be severely surprised if they tried to argue it. Let me see if I can get Clipped wings or Tolon here to tell you that you are a retard.
Ah, my bad. Here I had gone on thinking I could rely on what you had already posted.
Should've learned earlier, I guess.
Just out of curiosity, they will, of course, tell us all how they fired on you first, right? And that they didn't come under fire from you all for their "support" of .5. before ever taking any action against you, right? And that those unprovoked hostile actions from them preceeded you setting them to -10, right?
Since you obviously didn't set them to -10 prior to any of that, right? Because that would be setting standings based on their relationship with a 3rd party, which you *never* do, right?
Architect of Change |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.13 14:24:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Veskrashen
Originally by: Fred0 Ofcourse we do. Several nights for many hours they've moved their fleets together to counter us. But it's not something I'll care to discuss with you. In fact, I would be severely surprised if they tried to argue it. Let me see if I can get Clipped wings or Tolon here to tell you that you are a retard.
Ah, my bad. Here I had gone on thinking I could rely on what you had already posted.
Should've learned earlier, I guess.
Just out of curiosity, they will, of course, tell us all how they fired on you first, right? And that they didn't come under fire from you all for their "support" of .5. before ever taking any action against you, right? And that those unprovoked hostile actions from them preceeded you setting them to -10, right?
Since you obviously didn't set them to -10 prior to any of that, right? Because that would be setting standings based on their relationship with a 3rd party, which you *never* do, right?
Veskrashen, I give up I think you are a retarded and argumentative ****. And I don't think we should discuss matters between us anymore. Infact, you can apply that to most of JF, thank you and goodbye, feast on this discussion if you wish.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.13 15:26:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Fred0 Veskrashen, I give up I think you are a retarded and argumentative ****. And I don't think we should discuss matters between us anymore.
Call me what you'd like, if it makes you feel better. And if you choose not to defend your position further, I will accept your concession.
We've maintained that you set standings - at least in some cases - based not on a corporation's actions towards you, but on their relationship with or actions toward a 3rd party. In specific, this includes actions or standings against nothern alliances such as PA, FE and NBSI, or actions or standings for alliances such as ASCN, BOB, and .5.
Your comment to 3FA and .5. that your standings to 3FA/OSS were based on their relationship with .5. bear this out. That is all I had been saying. If you feel that my continually attempting to bring you back to that point is being argumentative, fine - don't respond. If you cannot, however, give any substantial reason aside from their support of .5. for your hostility, then my point stands, and your argument fails.
Our continued interest in this is, of course, the direct result of your stated intent for a "free and open" Pure Blind region. We do not feel that Pure Blind can be free and open when the self-appointed "guardians" react not to the actions of pilots who wish to be resident there against other residents in Pure Blind, but instead react to actions against uninvolved third parties or old grudges. Moreover, we feel that your deliberate violation of an agreed upon cease-fires, especially without notice and based on relations with an uninvolved third party, put you in a position where your integrity and impartiality are in question. Without those two qualities, any "free and open" region you police will be a mere buffer zone for those on whose behalf you act - formally or informally.
You and your alliance have yet to provide a reasonable counter to these concerns, and instead simply quit the fight and walk away. We are left unable to conclude anything other than that our fears in this matter are correct.
Architect of Change |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.10.13 19:22:00 -
[116]
5+ jf ? I count as two members and Jade counts as three? Tad melodramic are we?
I just wanted to talk, and I got the child kicking the sand syndrom and I got annoyed by it. Continue to make sweeping generalizations I guess. From what I read in this post and other public posts is that we really are not asking much from Razor, just to answer a few questions.
And generally the questions are called "lies" =/ not sure how one can do that but anything is possible I suppose.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.13 19:29:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Ly'sol P.S. - Why does Vesk get to be called a retard!! You left me out on the whole insults thing whyyyy!!!? Not fair.
It's the mustache.
Architect of Change |
eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2005.10.14 12:34:00 -
[118]
Good job fellas
have a bacon butty on me
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) |
Kriszz
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Posted - 2005.10.14 12:52:00 -
[119]
Before I begin I'd just like to say that what follows is my own personal view, it is not necessarily the view of my corp or alliance.
I'm sad I have to put that disclaimer in, but with the propensity of some people to either misquote or quote things out of context I guess it's probably important for me to say it.
To the JF guys and gals, I think the major problem that we are facing here is that people are talking at cross-purposes.
You asked for a justification of why CEI had certain groups at certain standings, now this was answered by Fred and co. some are due to disputes, some are due to "personal differences" others are due to friendships/alliances. Most of the corps involved in this know why their standings are they way they are.
Now once these answers are provided to you, you seek to justify why each of those cases is valid or not, you shift the argument away from the reasons and started questioning the internal politics of the corp/alliance. Now here we have a problem, you don't accept some of the internal reasoning and you insist that CEI cannot present a free-space alliance because their reasoning and rationale doesn't marry up to your own. Sadly people see and view things in different ways, this doesn't make any one view point invalid or wrong. It simply means that people have different points of view. Surely by the definition of some of your own ideals you don't want people to all be forced into the same way of thinking? I mean you are completely anti to the "mob mentality" are you not? So CEI and JF do not exactly match on their view points, that I concede, are you wrong for your point of view, I'd say not, are we wrong for our point of view, again I'd have to say no. Are they different, absolutely.
Now whilst we may not fulfil all of your criteria for being a true free-space alliance look at what's happening in Pure Blind; we run operations against Pirates and others that we consider to be hostile. These operations don't just include members of the Razor alliance, they include the locals as well. Now if you ask those guys if we force our standings on them you'll get a resounding no. We say who the targets of the op are, if they don't have a problem with them then they simply don't join us. We don't force them to, we don't threaten them. People here are individuals, they are allowed to make up their own minds. Does that mean that if people we consider to be hostile turn up in PB and others don't want to fight that we call the whole thing off? No of course it doesn't, we have our enemies and we'll fight them.
Now obviously I've broken all the rules about being concise and eloquent, the 300 char limit disappeared paragraphs above but hey. You can't win 'em all and you can't keep everyone happy all of the time. This doesn't just apply to my forum posting skills but also to the day-to-day running of corps and alliances. I'd love for everyone to just get along, have some entertaining debates and agree to disagree at times. I do believe this is one of the occasions where agreeing to disagree is the right course of action. Fred and the directors in my corp have a hard job, I'm sure the directors in your corps do as well, let's try and keep the game fun for them too
And yes, clearly I do have far too much time on my hands, but I'm at work so that's fine
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Defcon2
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Posted - 2005.10.14 14:20:00 -
[120]
Well said that man ^ ^ ^
always sad to see a press release turned into a flame war by somebody
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.14 14:43:00 -
[121]
Krissz - thanks for your well thought out reply, and I'll see if I can do it justice.
JF has been questioning CEI/RAZOR's stance towards individual corporations and alliances because of RAZOR's stated intent at the beginning of this thread, namely to create a free and open Pure Blind region. One of the things that we were cautious about from the beginning was RAZOR's statements to the effect that they intended to patrol Pure Blind and throw out elements they felt were troublemakers or threats.
This is the point at which things became shaky. We have no issue with someone rooting out threats to Pure Blind residents, though we feel it's each pilot's responsibility to be able to protect oneself, and that self appointed guardianship can very easily lead to oppression. That aside, however, if RAZOR had been looking solely at Pure Blind residents' actions against Pure Blind residents, I don't think we'd have had an issue.
But that's not the case, here. RAZOR believes that if you are hostile towards any of the northeastern alliances - PA, FE, and NBSI - you cannot be a legitimate resident of Pure Blind. It doesn't matter to RAZOR if you are neutral or friendly to the actual Pure Blind resident alliances - FREGE, Ekliptika et al - or even what your standings towards IRON or G are. If you are hostile to PA/FE/NBSI, you're not allowed in Pure Blind according to RAZOR.
Moreover, if you are friendly - NAP'd, root for, whatever - toward any of the southern alliances or historic enemies of PA/FE/NBSI, you can't possibly be a Pure Blind resident either. You must obviously be planning the imminent invasion of PA/FE/NBSI.
To us, this means that you intend to enforce certain "residency requirements" on pilots in Pure Blind. These requirements being, in essence, a non-hostile stance towards non-Pure Blind resident northern alliances, and a non-friendly stance towards southern alliances and traditional enemies of non-Pure Blind resident alliances. By enacting these residency requirements, and basing them on standings or associations with third parties not resident in Pure Blind, you are, in essence, creating a buffer zone in Pure Blind for the other northen regions. This, to us, is nothing close to "free and open."
Our constant questioning of RAZOR's policy towards Pure Blind resident corporations - and in the case of 3FA/OSS, other alliances you're hostile to - is an attempt to find out if, in fact, RAZOR bases it's standings on a corporation or alliance's relationship with the other Northern alliances or their traditional enemies. This has appeared to be the case, and lends credence to our argument that your alliance intends to enforce a certain standings regime in Pure Blind.
Now, when I say "enforce a certain standings regime", I mean that you intend to make the region hostile to parties whose standings conflict with yours. You intend to do this by force, shooting anyone who does not meet the "residency requirements" I outlined above. No, you don't go asking pilots you patrol with to change their standings, but you also don't tend to patrol with actual unaligned Pure Blind residents either. Those you patrol with, to the best of my knowledge, are already on friendly or neutral terms with the other northern alliances, or hostile towards the southern alliances. There's no need for them to change standings, since they've already met your "residency requirements."
Yes, we are talking at cross purposes, and no - I don't know that we'll be able to reconcile our differences. RAZOR believes that "free and open" requires certain relations with neighboring regions, and intends to enforce that view through regular patrols. JF believes that free and open means that you should be judged on your actions to fellow residents, not on your relations with outside 3rd parties. And that is the fundamental issue at hand.
Architect of Change |
Karmae
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Posted - 2005.10.14 15:28:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Veskrashen But that's not the case, here. RAZOR believes that if you are hostile towards any of the northeastern alliances - PA, FE, and NBSI - you cannot be a legitimate resident of Pure Blind. It doesn't matter to RAZOR if you are neutral or friendly to the actual Pure Blind resident alliances - FREGE, Ekliptika et al - or even what your standings towards IRON or G are. If you are hostile to PA/FE/NBSI, you're not allowed in Pure Blind according to RAZOR.
The problem is that you have the 'facts' wrong from the very outset, but that won't stop you posting them every opportunity you get but will dodge or ignore any challenge to provide proof to back up your allegations. It is very very tiresome engaging such closed-minded people on forums. ==================== There is 10 types of people in this world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.10.14 15:44:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Karmae
Originally by: Veskrashen But that's not the case, here. RAZOR believes that if you are hostile towards any of the northeastern alliances - PA, FE, and NBSI - you cannot be a legitimate resident of Pure Blind. It doesn't matter to RAZOR if you are neutral or friendly to the actual Pure Blind resident alliances - FREGE, Ekliptika et al - or even what your standings towards IRON or G are. If you are hostile to PA/FE/NBSI, you're not allowed in Pure Blind according to RAZOR.
The problem is that you have the 'facts' wrong from the very outset, but that won't stop you posting them every opportunity you get but will dodge or ignore any challenge to provide proof to back up your allegations. It is very very tiresome engaging such closed-minded people on forums.
And again, we remind you to check out Fred0 and Ly'sol's thread on your own forums, where Fred0 stated plainly that RAZOR considered being neutral or friendly to the other northern alliances a prerequiste for a resident of their "free and open" Pure Blind.
Conversation can be found here, as well as our statements on the issue here. Since it's been debated to death, and you still have yet to supply a counter to the argument other than "nuh uh!", I will stand by my statements. If you do not set standings based on relations to 3rd parties - to include, but not limited to, PA, BoB, NBSI, IRON, G, FE, and .5. - then you will need to provide alternate justifications for your hostility toward certain corporations, JF included. Since you have not and cannot, our assertion stands, as do all the arguments following from it, barring independent refutation of one of those arguments.
Architect of Change |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.14 18:43:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Karmae
Originally by: Veskrashen But that's not the case, here. RAZOR believes that if you are hostile towards any of the northeastern alliances - PA, FE, and NBSI - you cannot be a legitimate resident of Pure Blind. It doesn't matter to RAZOR if you are neutral or friendly to the actual Pure Blind resident alliances - FREGE, Ekliptika et al - or even what your standings towards IRON or G are. If you are hostile to PA/FE/NBSI, you're not allowed in Pure Blind according to RAZOR.
The problem is that you have the 'facts' wrong from the very outset, but that won't stop you posting them every opportunity you get but will dodge or ignore any challenge to provide proof to back up your allegations. It is very very tiresome engaging such closed-minded people on forums.
Then what are the facts, little one?
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Akuma Ichiro
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Posted - 2005.10.14 22:33:00 -
[125]
*yawn*
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Rift Scorn
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Posted - 2005.10.14 23:17:00 -
[126]
BoB welcome this new and exciting alliance to the world of eve and look forward to shooting them whenever we can
on a relatively serious note: GL, i fought Bladerunners before and they're good fun for mutual shooting fun & games. Glad you got us set to negative, wouldn't have it anyother way
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.17 06:00:00 -
[127]
GL.
Look forward to being shot and returning the favour.
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Boss BIG
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Posted - 2005.10.17 10:36:00 -
[128]
I look forward to shooting all Bob, at least Bob dont just sit in the station in x70.
________________________________________ I'm the Boss, what else is there to know? |
Czardas
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Posted - 2005.10.17 11:50:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Veskrashen As for Syndicate, no - got no idea what you do down there, other than what your alliance says here. And frankly, I don't care. Fred0 asked for proof of my statements, and I fed him his own words. Nothing more, nothing less. Pointing out his inconsitent rhetoric even within the same thread doesn't require residency in any particular region now does it?
Is there a JF negotiating strategy that does not involve trying to invoke someone else's principles / feed them their own words?
JF are the serpent of new eden.
[CZ]
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.10.17 13:03:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Czardas
Is there a JF negotiating strategy that does not involve trying to invoke someone else's principles / feed them their own words?
JF are the serpent of new eden.
[CZ]
How sweet.
Will there ever be a Czardas post that doesn't mention us?
The cluster awaits with baited breath...
..or not.
The Cosmopolite
Voice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction |
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Czardas
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Posted - 2005.10.18 05:26:00 -
[131]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite How sweet.
Will there ever be a Czardas post that doesn't mention us?
If someone would point me to another voluble group of philosophical ideologues, I'd be happy to.
[CZ]
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.10.19 06:54:00 -
[132]
CZ,
We actually have bets in the corp on what you will say next. Your like one of those talking teddy ruxpins!
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Gilad Pellaeon
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Posted - 2005.10.27 12:28:00 -
[133]
GL CEI and Blades. I got nothing but love for the both Corps.
Clear the trash out of PB. Just like the good old days. :)
xx _
KIA Corp - Mercenaries for Hire Contemptuous arrogance FREE with every contract |
C4w3
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Posted - 2005.10.27 12:32:00 -
[134]
Welcome back blades ;=9
"If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one. |
ReForMatt
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Posted - 2005.10.28 21:08:00 -
[135]
One day JF could post in a thread ask if they are kos or not kos and be fine with it. But untill then they must make a short story into a long drawn out story.
GL in the new Alliance and WB Blade.
GODS NUFF SAID!! |
pershphanie
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Posted - 2005.10.29 05:20:00 -
[136]
/emote tosses JF a big glass of shut the hell up.
This is RAZOR's thread whyd you have to take a dump on it? Does every thread have to be about 'free space' commie hippie crap?
G/L RAZOR. |
Mallik Hendrake
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Posted - 2005.10.29 05:29:00 -
[137]
Originally by: pershphanie /emote tosses JF a big glass of shut the hell up.
This is RAZOR's thread whyd you have to take a dump on it? Does every thread have to be about 'free space' commie hippie crap?
G/L RAZOR.
I have been noticing that this sickening drivel that comes out of Jf's collective mouth smacks an awful lot of Marxist rhetoric. I bet they have a manifesto. -------------------------------------------- "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_
Mallik Hendrake E X O D U S [I do not speak for E X O or IRON] |
hangovur
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Posted - 2005.10.30 03:45:00 -
[138]
jeez guys. i want to apologize for quasi-hijacking this thread. didnt really mean for it to go this way. thanks for answering my question in a professional manner.
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Kane Jacobs
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Posted - 2005.10.30 05:11:00 -
[139]
Originally by: pershphanie /emote tosses JF a big glass of shut the hell up.
This is RAZOR's thread whyd you have to take a dump on it? Does every thread have to be about 'free space' commie hippie crap?
G/L RAZOR.
<3 _______________________________________________
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Leno
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Posted - 2005.10.30 16:00:00 -
[140]
Originally by: KIATolon
Quote: Syndicate is not related to our Pure Blind operations. CEI have conducted operations in that area since early this year initially assisting the local alliances in dealing with the pirate problems of the area (with great success). Much has changed within the region in, what, 10 months now? It remains a turbulent area.
We kicked CEI and all their friends out of syndicate because they moved in and started attacking the locals, now they've been reduced to frigate raids. Anything bigger and they usually start playing the log on, log off game.
Considering CEI also admit that a lot of the people they were up there to "help" are now -10 for being pirates... I would be very careful with your propaganda.
You guys came up to the home we won... tried to kick out the people we asked to look after the area. They asked for BOS help and we came up and helped. Within 2 weeks of BOS turning up (it is worth noting at this point that blind vengeance and requiem inc were also in syndicate as mercs against LSD and doing a LOT of great work) everyone "left" except the four horseman left the area. CEI leaving a few days before everyone else.
BOS had some enjoyable fights with CEI, but they were the ones up here terrorising people with their pirate friends...not the other way round.
The split up of LSD had nothing to do with your smacking in local while Fred0 killed your guys 2 on 1. We simply grew too fast and some differences in ideas created a rift which was seen as just a beter idea to split off. ---------------
RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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