I get 230 max manufacturing slots.

50 (base) + 2*20 (basics) + 2*40 (standard) + 1*60 (improved).

People mined in hi-sec when trit was 0.8 ISk per unit.

Looks like someone moved your cheese.

Maybe consider adapting?

Are you joking? I have 5 moon mining pos's. I JF two months worth of fuel for all towers into the system and take the goo out. In the mean time I log on a 2 day alt in a bestower in system once a month to refuel and empty silos. It's pretty well passive.

Secondly, those outpost slot increases are off by about one order of magnitude. The design goal should be that if you really max out an indy station, you should have 500GÇô700 manufacturing slotsGǪ even these new numbers aren't nearly enough to get there.

Enough for a single nullsec system to be comparable with a single highsec system. It's an excellent idea.
Alternatively, we can slash the number of highsec indy slots byGǪ ohGǪ 80% or so. Would that be a better solution?

2) How about, because they actually earned them?

That's generally because mining in null is currently a rather pointless thing to do.
If it's made worthwhile then nobody's going to be laughing. It will be treated with the same respect as ratting (which frankly doesn't get treated with much respect either).

2) How about, because they actually earned them?

I think you seriously overestimate their ability to do this to more than a handful of ice belts. They might be able to do more if they commit a significant portion of their pilots to the task, but they're not going to care that much to do it.

Yeah, because having a 24/7 icemining division in highsec has always been mittens favorite wet dream

No as I said they do deserve more than what they have been given but 500-700 is just way too much.

Maybe you could elaborate on how you believed they earned the right to between 36,000 and 50,400 manufacturing slots?

Yes I do believe they need more slots and even more than what has been proposed but 36,000 + slots?

Not sure where you're getting those numbers from.

We currently have 28 Amarr outposts and 44 other outposts.

If we fully upgrade all our Amarr outposts (unlikely, but let's run with it) we'd have 230*28 = 6440 manufacturing slots, plus say 500 more from non-amarr outposts depending on upgrade level and direction.

We have 121 sovereign systems. 72 of them already have outposts and are accounted for above. If we fill the remaining 49 systems with fully upgraded Amarr factories we'd have another 11270 manufacturing slots, or roughly 18000 in total, a pretty far cry from the 36-50 thousand you pulled out of your ass.

I believe he was replying to Tippia's assertion that 0.0 stations should be upgradeable to match the best hi-sec systems @ 700 slots or so.

Please do explain how the mining changes hinder new alliances in 0.0

One of the shocking realities of Null Sec was how important tritanium became the further from highsec you found yourself.

It would be very easy for CCP to prove me wrong or right and be able to inform the CSM of the changes in player behavior (or lack thereof).....

THIS week, do a census where you note which players are in hi-sec. Measure 10 times including over the weekend. If on any of those censii they are in null or low-sec throw them out of that hi-sec count. Then 90 days after Odyssey do another 10 censii over a week and see how many of those same players get spotted in null. My prediction is it will be a very very very small number and will be due to other factors (like me regaining the leisure time for null-sec).

While I *hope* high-sec will endure and pay their subs, I'm *convinced* that you won't turn them into null-sec players by making high-sec less rewarding, less fun, or less afk-able.

Prove me wrong. You already have the flogging high-sec into null policies soon to be instituted, so just get them to make the measurements and be scientists about it rather than religious zealots about it. Measure your results and throw them in my face if you're right.

While I myself may sound like a zealot in how firmly convinced I am that you can't flog them into null-sec, just remember that *I* am the one asking for the measurements to be taken.

Ah, you're also planning to switch doing all your nasty things at outpost, right?
Oh wait, you mean you prefer to crumble and die? What a wise way of dealing with challenge!

Remember that time CCP bled hi-sec by tripling the rate at which belts spawned?

Or that time when they utterly shafted hisec by making all agents Q20?

Or.., ah sod it you get the idea. Stop whining because your incredibly priviliged lifestyle isn't at the front of the queue for once.

Remember that time CCP bled hi-sec by tripling the rate at which belts spawned?

Or that time when they utterly shafted hisec by making all agents Q20?

Or.., ah sod it you get the idea. Stop whining because your incredibly priviliged lifestyle isn't at the front of the queue for once.

Seriously the V.V., you make the mistake that clever people often make which is to think that everyone else is stupid.

If I get 30 pies a day to sell and you get 30 pies a day to sell, then we both make about the same income: we each have half the pie market.

If your pie production triples to 90 pies, then even if the pie price falls by 50% to reflect increased supply, you're now getting 3/4 of the pie market, so you make 3 times as much as me from selling pies, and 50% more than you used to anyway.

If you then follow this up about how it's an unfair nerf when my pie allowance gets increased to 33 pies, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone when they see that you're still getting 90 pies but you have become accustomed to getting 3x as much pie revenue and believe that you're entitled to it.

Certainly not from me, anyway.




This has been a pieconomics lesson from Malc, your CSM8 representative responsible for attacking bullshit wherever he sees it.

The ratio is actually going to about 90:9

That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.

Remember that time CCP bled hi-sec by tripling the rate at which belts spawned?

Or that time when they utterly shafted hisec by making all agents Q20?

Or.., ah sod it you get the idea. Stop whining because your incredibly priviliged lifestyle isn't at the front of the queue for once.

Oh look it's the old "we have to give the high sec solo ISK grinders whatever they want or CCP will instantly go bankrupt" argument.

Surely with all the countless nerfs hi-sec has suffered since 2007, all those people have left long ago?

Well, not quite sure if GoonMath(tm) is different than the one I learned in school, but the numbers I come up with are slightly different.

Currently, a fully boosted Mackinaw with a 3% Ice Mining Yield implant will yield a time of 103.3 seconds per cycle.

It therefore means that this same Mackinaw will generate about 34.8 cycles per hour, so round down to 34 cycles per hour.

34 cycles * 2 Ice Harvester IIs = 68 blocks of ice per Mackinaw.

Given that the new belts will generate 2,500 blocks of ice per spawn, it means that it will take 36.7 Mackinaws to clear out an ice belt in 1 hour, rounded to 37 Mackinaws.

To calculate this to a 40 minute cycle, you get 55 Mackinaws.

This is NOW. They plan on cutting the required cycle time to half, so you only need 27 - 28 Mackinaws (depending on how and when you round the numbers) to clear out that belt in 40 minutes.

Now, when I mine semi-afk, I use Mackinaws. When I mine full ATK, well, I break out the Hulks. If the smart cookies take out the big guns to mine, then it will be as follows:

1 Hulk fully Boosted will require 143.47 seconds per cycle.

This translates to about 25 cycles per hour (rounded down).

25 cycles * 3 Ice Harvester IIs = 75 blocks of ice per Hulk.

With that same 2,500 belt, you will get 34 Hulks to strip it in 1 hour. You therefore need 51 Hulks to strip it in 40 minutes.

Again, with the half cycle time, it will mean 25 hulks to rip that belt to nothingness in 40 minutes.

Now that we got that out of the way, I don't see how we can really make it so that the casual player and the hardcore miner can each get their piece of the pie without the botters reaping the full benefit. If we stay as is, the hardcore guy wins and if we say, quadruple the cycle time on ice lasers (this is just a thought exercise, mind you) then we get these belts stripped at a much slower pace, but the botter wins as the hard work of the hardcore atk miner is nullified.

Neither scenario works, and the current one, while more fair, also has it's flaws.

I have a few ideas on how *I* plan to *TRY* to adapt, but I am not sure I will be able to do it in a way that allows me to get my end result (which is different for me as for you as for any other person playing EVE). Now I *know* that Goons will not simply invite me into their space to mine ice just out of the generosity of their hearts, nor will any other Null Sec alliance where I could mine in *relative* safety.

So I am back to square one, and I just have no idea how I will adapt and if, ultimate, I will be able to.

and btw. just a general question.

which one of u guys had the idea that there is no ice mining in 0.0? and that it is far to dangerous?
our ICE Miners have like 40 miners in each sys with retrievers(and that are 4 people with like 10 accounts each). they assist the drones to someone in a BS or so.
if a neutral comes in, we just shoot them. what should they do against our 200 hobbies? and if we loose the retrievers we dont care. cuz we earn them in like half an hour? or even get them free from corp. so all thats happening is damaging crappy 1-2 account miners cuz they have to run around and search for belts where there are no cuz we multiboxer just empty them in like half an hour.

at this moment only one of our ice sys produces about 20000 blocks of Dark glitter a day. just fyi

thats what one of our multiboxers got: http://i.imgur.com/jOObBOE.png

In order to encourage competition for the best mining systems and to bring adequate rewards to fully upgrading the Ore Prospecting Array, we will also be adding new variations of the Extra Large and Giant Asteroid Clusters that will only be found in locations with excellent system quality (truesec). These belts will contain improved (+5% and +10%) variations of the ore that can be found in their standard versions.