A 2-hour-uptime 4-hour-downtime schedule would just be tedious. Ice mining is tedious enough.

i think that was the plan all along, one of the main selling points for aggressors when referring to the 'no local' thing was to catch people relatively unawares after jumping in and scanning. i believe this change is to better get the higher speed of the process to more people to show the current system isnt that bad.

plus the mining in WH's thing i think has been nerfed due to their ability to easy (albeit awkwardly) get minerals to highsec markets.

i remember that being one of the bug bears of CSM7 that had never been resolved.

Wrong choice of words... not so much tedium, but more brain numbing.

Are wormholes getting the +5%/+10% asteroids, since their truesec is -1?

If so, I'll lean towards agreeing. If not, I still need to lean towards disagreeing. Adding more low-ends to the belts might increase the on-paper value of the belt, but the low-ends present logistics difficulties for wormhole dwellers that might make them not worth it to ship.

Even if the reward doubles (doubtful), the risk has far more than doubled, since there is nothing a miner can do to avoid getting ganked by a new arrival to the wormhole system, unless they gimp their yield by using a probe launcher to continuously scan for new sigs--at which point the reward has gone way down.

I guess at this point there are still too many variables to determine if it will actually be worth it:
- Will low-end mineral prices remain high enough for the additional low-end yield to be a significant contributor to the value?
- Will ice prices be low enough to make rorqual compression worth it?
- Will people end up moving out of the low- and medium-class WHs due to increased ice prices? If so, mining in a C1 will still be "relatively" safe since there will be fewer opportunities for people to get wormholes into your system.

I'll wait and see, but I'm not hopeful for the future of mining in wormholes.

the small miner will find an ice anom given the amount of time he is logged in the exact same percentage of the time the 10 account "small miner" does for the amount of time he is logged in

The difference if any between the attitude of null sec residents and high seccers is that most of us in null, rather than stamp our feet and cry in protest to said changes, we will find ways to operate and function in the new reality.

That doesn't change the fact that many of these changes are ill conceived and if history is any guide will be poorly executed nor does it prevent us from pointing out how they are flawed, we just won't be making empty threats about cancelling our subscriptions in protest.

And I would respond to you with you really don't understand what it takes to live in Nullsec.

Unless your in an alliance that has its Sov borders along low sec a Null sec convoy normally has to jump 2-5 jump freightor jumps away to get to a low sec staging system. That is capital jumps. To get a fleet to protect the convoy beyond carriers jumping along with the JF can take up to 50 stargate jumps to get to the same staging system or a jump clone to high sec. Many times these stargate jumps could be through hostile alliance Sov space with gate camps which slow down the progress to the staging system.

It is just easier to not give easy kills to people that prey solely on ships that you can not even put modules on. And besides if we did come up to low sec to fight you all you would do is Blueball us and drop the wardec until we went back into our Null Sov and you could attack defensless ships again.

because you just made that up

(or rzr have fallen far further than we thought(which was already pretty low))

Exactly. If people want to complain about fun stuff to DO for casual players, then scream bloody murder. I'd actually tend to agree with respect to all areas of space, not just hisec. I think time spent developing quick, cooperative and competitive gameplay that doesn't feel too "instancey" would be a huge boon for all areas of space and the game as a whole.

However, crying about people who put in less time and less effort getting less raw in-game rewards, not the actual gameplay involved, is a dead-end. CCP are balancing risk-reward to keep the game healthy as a whole. If the entitlement crowd, who feel they should get as much as people who play more, risk more, play harder, play smarter, and so on, think they can turn back that development path now, they're in for a lot more ineffective foot-stamping and breath-holding over the next year or two.

I take it you have no clue what risk vs reward is.

WHers do have higher risk. no argument there. But the rewards are much higher. It is easy for a WHers to make 500M/hr.

If I was making 500M/hr like WHers do the added risk would be offset by the reward.

when talking about WH life you can not compare it to null sec mining. In a worm hole you do what ever sites are available, some times they are grav sites, but WH mining is not a career, just one of many activities you do to max your income.

A WHer does have higher risk than a null secer, but also has much higher rewards. Null sec miners do not have those high rewards to off set the higher risk.

Also I ask any WH miners out there. Will anyone continue to mine in W-space if the grav sites are changed to anomalies that do not need probes to scan down? Not that every invading ship in W-Space does not already have a probe launcher, but at least the probes showing on D-scan gives you some warning. With this change you will not know there is even anyone there until they show up on grid, then it is to late. Seems to me like this change will hit W-space miners even more than null sec miners.

Mining in W-space after this change will make grav sites the highest risk, lowest reward of all W-Space activities. If you are mining in an anomaly you will have zero warning of a coming attacker unless you managed to catch them at the hole on there way in. A cloaky ship in your hole will be able to find the belt you are in, using the basic ship scanner and warp right to the site, while cloaked, no probes on D-scan, no ship on D-scan, as they are cloaked. Zero warning. D-scan will be useless.

Any ship capable of using a cov-ops cloak will be able to land on grid and tackle your mining ship before that mining ship can even think about warping off. In fact any cloaky ship will land on grid cloaked and not decloak until they are within tackle range. You will have zero chance of escaping any cloaky ship. You will not know they are there until they decloak and tackle you. Cloaked ships do not show up on D-scan only there probes do. Since they will no longer need probes to find the site you are mining in you will have no security. If you mine in W-space you will be a sitting duck for anyone that can get into your hole undetected.

Considering the most common roaming ship in W-space is a cloaky T3, this will be the most common scenario.

anyone who can do math and figure out the expected rate of return is quite high, who does not soil themselves in fear of losing a ship

Ahhh the sweet waterfall of AFK multiboxing tears.

Prices will rise until players who distinguish little between shooting space rocks and shooting red crosses switch between them.

Eve will continue to reward activity over inactivity, so might as well get used to it.

I do not see any facts for the price of ships doubling.

Sadly this thread has been derailed by a few ppl who are afraid that their AFK highsec ice mining fleets would actually require them to interact with the game. They have played the usually cards like unsubbing, eve is dying, this will break the game etc.

I do not see the anomily change as a thread. Unless your afk, you should have enough time to get away. If your close to the gate bubble it use sling bubbles. If your afk you deserver to die. The grav site is only a false safety since you can be probed there.

waitwaitwait, a drop in WH mining is going to double prices across the board?

And with that you've crossed from the terrible to the ridiculous.

Good day.

So are you talking about 0.0 mining again? Which really wont be impacted in regards to safety or are just trolling ?

The changes means that ppl mining are now found the same way as you find ppl in forsaken hubs. Ppl are still running does.
I do not see ppl stop mining in 0.0 becuase of this. In regards to WH I will not comment on that since I do not know anything about the WH mechanics or how much of the total ore they supply.

So here we are talking about 0.0 mining. I alredy talked about the use of bubbles. You could align your mining ship?
With these changes mining will become a bit like ratting. If they caught you it is because you were bad/afk.

edit:spelling

how about CCP take care of the botters and and PvP look for some interactive kills instead of ganks.
CCP has stated nothing in this upgrade is about botting

Let's do a cloaky alt in your ice anom. And gank the haulers, orcas and whatever. Loot with neutral alts, rinse and repeat. Then extorcate.After a time, go back to ganking. Rinse and repeat.
Miners will sing best gospel and bluegrass ever heard in this world, after a time. And i'm affraid there will be no Abe Lincoln for them. Just a James.

Or to shut down operations during a known temporary price shift.

Or to switch tower types.

Follow the conversation if you're going to attempt to partake.

He suggested that the events of the ice interdiction were a precursor for odyssey change in terms of t2 manufacturing, when a few key factors are different. One of those being that the drop in demand could indicate people switching towers instead of dropping t2 manufacturing altogether.

No, you were replying directly to me because you misunderstood what was being said.

Nobody cares about your response to an argument that you invented yourself from your own misunderstanding.

Changes in t2 prices and manufacturing has no special effect on new people.

No, to generalize that it will is wrong based on that reasoning. All you've done is further refute the initial argument by adding another point of failure.

Thanks for playing, again.

t2 prices going up would be good for the game, burn a little more of that bittervet money

Who said it doesn't affect them? I said there is no added effect that harms new players because they're new.

Explain how t2 is in any way integral to the new player experience? It's not. All you have is "newbies buy stuff, and t2 is stuff". By that line of reasoning, we should never enact any change that might raise the price of something a new player might buy.

"Weak" would be too generous an adjective to describe such an argument; "pathetic" would be more appropriate.

You guys keep grasping at straws though. Maybe if you fling enough garbage at the wall, something might stick. It works in the music industry.

Keep whacking those strawmen, champ. They put up much less of a fight than real arguments.

Nope, reduced access to t2 in no way further hampers new players than it does anyone else. You can keep repeating your empty point about relative incomes, but it is irrelevant because the ownership of t2 itself is irrelevant.

And, yes, you are grasping at straws. Crying crocodile tears over imagined harm to new players after all the blatantly selfish arguments have been trounced repeatedly is most definitely grasping at straws.

Hey, it's your argument that new players will be particularly "harmed" here, so you define your terms and what the actual impact will be.

A very compelling argument, especially the need for new players to afford PLEX.

Mine two jumps from Amamake or out in Molden Heath some time. If you finish a cycle without random prats jumping in, you're having a good day.

You sort of missed my point: in those places you don't need to know if someone is already in system because pirate patrols are so plentiful that you will always have at least one in system with you. You will very rarely finish a single cycle before some asshat is jumping in to try and kill you.

As an PVP player i see opportunities for more fights if more mining is done in unsafe space. instead of the lonely miner or ratter, which is pos'ed up when a roaming gang arrives, would love to engage an organized mining op with backup. At least I know where the fights will be post odyssey.

We'd rather have the challenge provided by other players than by us.

Risk vs Reward, carebears just want the reward. Anyway the more you cry the more EvE Online grows, so keep on crying.

Typical diarrhea post from a member of the double digit IQ club. It's really too bad you have the need to take a dump on the forum.