So what if the invading party brings friends? Granted you can always dock up or fly to PoS every time a non-blue enters the system but depending on your location that could disrupt a lot of mining time.

^^ THIS IS THE BIG PROBLEM.

PVPers do not and will not sit in a belt baby sitting miners just in case a gank fleet shows up.

How many times have goonswarm PVPers shown up to protect miners in there space? More likely they will show up to gank their own blues just because they are mining, than actually protect them.

This change will not result in large mining fleets with escorts for null sec gankers to hunt down. It will result in a massive drop in null sec mining, and a massive increase in the value of high end minerals. once the turbulence in gone and every thing settles out null sec mining may be one of the highest income activities in game as it will have to be to of set the risk enough for nullbears to risk the constant ganks in such an easily accessed belt.

Not that miners having a high income is a problem, but when that high income is a result of excessively high prices for high end minerals we will see a much wider gap between established characters and new characters trying to get a foot hold. This goes against the goal of making EVE more accessible for new players.

Why put this added risk on the null sec miners? the rewards for null sec miners are not currently high compared to the risk. If it was we would see far more miners in null sec than we currently do. Drastically increasing the risk while only slightly increasing the reward will not draw new miners into null, but it likely will drive some existing null sec miners out. No matter hopw you look at it this change is a drastic increase in risk for null sec miners. If this is CCPs idea of encouraging null sec industry then someone needs a smack upside the head.

In order for this to work players have to play the game the way CCP envisions it, large mining ops, supported by large PVP fleets for protection. Sounds great, except that the PVPers are not going to be forced into this role of babysitting the nullbear miners. Without those PVP babysitters null sec mining will have a risk vs reward comparable to what we currently see in low sec, how much mining happens there? If null sec mining drops off so will the supply of high end minerals. What happens to EVE when the bottleneck of high end minerals stops a large amount of high sec production? CCP can not dictate to players how to play the game. Trying to force players into these roles will not end well.

The problem I see is that if you shift the equation too much in the favor of the predator you will reduce the supply of prey,

This is exactly why I think the changes to combat anoms are so poorly conceived as it's based on the same faulty logic that has so many people calling for moving L4's to low sec.

Increase the risk too much and people will find alternative activities and the only ones that continue in said activities will be those most prepared. This is why hunters use blinds and try to remain silent, because it's damned hard to bag a deer that has heard humans in the area, they'll be skittish and quick to bolt. Where as if they feel secure and safe they'll just stand around doing their things.

Having grav sites so that they had to be probed down provided a heightened sense of security to those who mined in them. This heightened sense of security would tend to make them slower to react to danger which in turn provided opportunities that skilled predators could take advantage of.

If you really want to increase the amount of conflict, then you need to create greater incentives for people to have their ships in space. Preferably low or null space. You also have to give the prey a fighting chance otherwise you end up with a situation where they are hunted to extinction which in this case means players cease engaging in the dangerous activity.

Consider Forsaken hubs, you think the problem is that they are too easy which prevents other anoms from being used, so rather than adjust the other anoms to be more similar to the popular forsaken hubs you change the forsaken hubs to suck just as much as the others. You do this without understanding why Forsakens are so popular a choice in the first place, you seem to think it's the lack of scrams that are their primary draw, while the thing that actually makes the other anoms unpopular is not the scram part but the fact that you can not effectively engage frigates with the ships required to tank them or the weapon systems most suitable for dealing with larger ships.

The lack of scramblers is a nice bonus but it's not the reason why people avoid the other anoms. Don't believe me, leave the frigates out and put warp disruptors on the dire cruisers and see if that changes which anoms are used the most.

The problem is that for the most part mission rats orbit at long range, requiring the use of long range weaponry/ammo that is poorly suited for use against close orbiting high speed targets (frigates) the AI changes further complicated matters because it effectively removed the traditional counter for frigates in PVE content, since drones are on the KOS list of the rats they are extremely difficult to use to deal with rats that can get in under those long range weapon systems that are required to engage the cruisers and above.

The hub change will not cause people to team up to make poorer rewards than they could get running L4's in high sec (which is actually pretty pathetic isk/hr if you don't play the LP market) They will move to other activities (high sec L4 alts for example) which will make null even more of a ghost town than it normally is.


What you should be doing is figuring out ways to increase the numbers of ships flying in space. Remove the frigates from more anoms, increase the bounties on the frigates in the lower level anoms so that there is some incentive to run them. Hell why not be able to make decent isk/hour on all those little frig heavy anoms, give people the option to speed boat them in smaller ships built specifically to fight frigates. Would it really be all that horrible if a newer player in rifter could make 10 mil or so a tick running the basic anoms?

As it stands now a fully upgraded system in null can support 2-3 ratters. 2-3 while there are what 20+ anoms in those systems that are being ignored because they just aren't worth messing with. If those other anoms were changed to make them more attractive then you'd have more pilots in null earning their isk, creating more targets for the roaming gangs to hunt. Driving more conflict and generating more content.


Not to mention the fact that making the content more difficult introduces a selection bias towards harder to kill prey, So not only will the change to Forsaken hubs decrease the number of potential targets it will result in those remaining targets being better prepared and harder to catch/kill.

The chicken sh*t miners are the ones that warp off every time they see a neutral in system. If you do that it defeats the purpose of mining in null, as you spend more time safed up than actually mining. I always wait to see if they are actually a threat first. As I have said before, only a small percentage of PVP roamers have a probe launcher, those that do not are not much of a threat. Sure I lost a couple mining ships. If I get caught by someone smart enough to out manuver me, then good for them. but I spent 90% of my time actually in the belts mining when I was in null, not POSed up.



Seriously?? These days there is almost always at least 1 neut in system. when I am mining, I actually mine, I will not spend 80% of my time POSed up. If I am going to do that I will just mine in high sec. When probes show on scan you have plenty of time to warp off, it takes at least 30 seconds for them to get a lock on your position. This is the proper way to do it. What you describe is what the paranoid, wannabe miners that barely make 10m/hr do.

This anomaly change will be game breaking for the miners like me who actually mine, rather than sit in a station or POS waiting for perfect safety to undock. Sitting in a POS shield is just a waste of my time.

Besides, if you are correct and the safety net provided by the need to scan down mining ships in grav sites was a non issue, than why is mining in non grav sites near non existent?

so this discussion is dead no willing to change ? it personally makes no deference to me i can tell you that i think CCP needs to start listing to some of the carebears tho after all you in it for the money right pvp is a verry small part of your pay day no matter how much the ones that say its all eve is about try to make you think it is