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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
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CCP BunnyVirus
C C P C C P Alliance
473
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Posted - 2013.04.28 05:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
oh **** yes 3D Artist |
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CCP BlueScreen
C C P C C P Alliance
147
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Posted - 2013.04.28 13:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I approve this thread, now i will go back to sleep. |
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CCP Lion
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.04.28 20:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2157
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Posted - 2013.04.28 23:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aww yiss!
+1 ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Solomon
C C P C C P Alliance
240
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Posted - 2013.04.29 13:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm getting mixed messages from this thread, do you want to high res textures or not? CCP Solomon | Technical Producer | EVE Online @RoryAbbott |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1797
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Posted - 2013.05.07 16:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
GIVE ME HIGH RESOLUTION TEXTURES! :D Game Designer | Team True Grit |
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CCP Lion
C C P C C P Alliance
18
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-keep-going-239.png |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1658
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Posted - 2013.06.24 11:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
witchking42 wrote:From the new EvE minimum spec thread... CCP Explorer wrote:enterprisePSI wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:enterprisePSI wrote:OMG You no longer support my 15 year old PC, i hate you ccp, im quitting eve, send me isk, and i will double it. edit, if high rez texture and tessellation strikes at the same time, im quitting my job. Another edit, my 5850 is under the recommend specs, yet i can run 2 clients on 2 monitors, @ 1920*1080 everything high. Unless this is about to change. This is not about to change. So no HD textures No final decision either way has been made regarding HD textures. Not exactly encouraging.... It is neutral, neither encouraging nor discouraging, there is simply not a final decision yet. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Universe, EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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CCP Seagull
C C P C C P Alliance
219
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Posted - 2013.10.09 19:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hey all - thanks for all the input in this thread!
I just want to clarify that while we have higher resolution textures for our ships, delivering them to you is not as trivial as putting the files on the interwebs and be done. We are looking into how to best do this, and we are not holding back because we think no-one wants this! It is just not trivial to do, and we need to both investigate and weigh various options for how to deliver it, that require involvement from multiple aspects of how we develop EVE - such as the rendering engine, game settings, launcher and server operations.
We have heard you loud and clear though that this is something players would appreciate - and we are investigating if we can do it and when. YouGÇÖll see a devblog about it if we decide to go ahead.
/CCP Seagull
Senior Producer, EVE Online Development CCP Games Reykjavik |
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CCP BlueScreen
C C P C C P Alliance
263
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Posted - 2014.01.31 00:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just to re-iterate, I support this product and/or message. |
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ISD Supogo
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
109
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Posted - 2014.05.24 09:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1 because shinies! ISD Supogo Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Supogo
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
297
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Posted - 2014.09.21 08:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
All glory to the Hi-res Texture Toad! :P
Seriously though, yes please. ISD Supogo Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1132
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Posted - 2015.03.02 16:00:59 -
[13] - Quote
Elistea wrote:So... is this happening anytime in this century?
There are a number of problems that must be solved to make this particular thing happen, more than you might think. While there's still nothing I can share about when you might see such a feature, we are working on overcoming the technical limitations that make it challenging to do in EVE, one by one.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1137
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Posted - 2015.03.03 16:52:28 -
[14] - Quote
Sacu Shi wrote:If you look back, we have been told that you have the textures, and are ready to go but that the decision to replace the current textures with hi-res ones lies with the distribution department not art or technical.
So which is it? Is it ready to go and a delivery system is being looked at? Or are their technical limitations as you have said? I'll quote my post from another thread in January. Additionally, I'll add that while we do have higher-resolution versions of many textures, we'll likely have to go through all of them to make sure the quality is good enough to release at high resolution before we could proceed with such a feature. I don't believe anyone has ever claimed that there are not art or technical issues to work through on this.
CCP Darwin wrote:The main issues that would have to be resolved to deliver higher-res textures are:
- Additional client disk space and associated delivery bandwidth on both the client and host ends.
- Putting in place a scheme to allow some assets to be delivered optionally so that players who can't use the new feature don't bear the burden.
- Changes to game-engine texture management so that new, larger textures don't kill performance.
- Changes to our process for integrating art assets into the game to accommodate any new needs established by the changes to address (3)
All of this is a lot of work. ... That said, everyone on the team knows that there's a lot of player interest in increasing our raw texture resolution, and we continue to discuss what has to be done to make it happen....
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1147
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Posted - 2015.03.04 01:41:12 -
[15] - Quote
When CCP BasementBen made those comments, that was the team's understanding. The textures we had at the time, particularly for ships, are in fact higher in resolution than what we deliver in-game right now.
What's changed since then is the introduction of physically-based rendering, and our current task of improving and refining our initial PBR implementation (which internally, and in the CSM minutes, we're calling V5++).
The work for PBR and V5++ have required artists to go through each ship to inspect and modify the textures. In the course of this inspection, it's become clear that there's a lot of variation in texture quality among existing textures that delivering them in higher resolution would reveal.
These textures will have to be quality checked, and possibly cleaned up. Much of this is happening as part of the V5++ update, but once we see ships in-game with full-resolution textures, it's almost certain that some further work will be necessary. This is not necessarily difficult work, but it does have to happen.
What I'll offer you is that the change in tone from last year's Fanfest to now reflects us having a much better picture of where we stand with our texture assets, which means that when the relevant technical issues are solved, we'll be in a very good place to proceed with the work to release high res textures, as it fits into our work schedule.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1260
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Posted - 2015.03.23 01:37:57 -
[16] - Quote
Brynhild Budlesdotter wrote:I'm guessing this article must be bullshitting about us getting this the 24th.
Under no condition will high-res textures be available on the 24th of March. CCP Seagull's presentation stated that we should see this in 2015, and work is already ongoing on making it happen.
I think it's important to manage your expectations about what this will do for your EVE experience.
We'll be able to double linear resolution of textures for ships that have been redesigned in the last few years, but many of the most popular ships simply don't have higher-resolution textures available at all.
Also, even for ships for which we can deliver a higher texture resolution, including the Tristan and Apocalypse which CCP Seagull showed in her presentation, the improvement is quite subtle, and it's very possible to zoom in close enough on the ship to see pixelation. In most cases, the effect of going from current textures to double-res textures is one that I'd characterize as modestly sharpening detail, and remember that it's doing so at a cost of 4x the download size for that ship's textures.
It is quite likely that we will never be able to deliver a solution that makes ships appear sharp and detailed at all zoom levels. Unlike many MMOs out there, which focus on human-sized characters in an environment that's suited to their scale, objects in EVE range from a meter wide to tens of kilometers wide, and those scale differences mean that no conceivable high-res texture would ever make large objects look sharp when zoomed in closely.
We're certainly discussing various possible approaches to enable much better looks at close-in zoom levels, but those ideas are a long way out at this point.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1261
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Posted - 2015.03.23 01:49:48 -
[17] - Quote
Elena Ranning wrote:what about hi-res textures for other objects other than ships? the universe the planets the stars the supernova the asteroids the explosions and particle effect....? Non-ship assets are definitely on the table for this. It all depends on what assets we have available. If a high-resolution map doesn't exist for a given asset, it will have to be redone and will come later.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1262
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Posted - 2015.03.23 10:04:05 -
[18] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Even movies use procedural detail generation for large objects. The problem is that doing this well is very processor-intensive. A film visual effects project can tolerate a 48-hour render. We have 17 milliseconds per frame.
We've investigated this type of thing, and will continue doing so, but the results have not yet been satisfactory.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1270
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Posted - 2015.03.24 13:41:20 -
[19] - Quote
ReKt-X wrote:So every current game in existence can somehow achieve HD textures yet eve cannot. Best get the art department painting!!
EVE differs from most games out there that I'm aware of that have delivered improved texture resolution as an optional addition in one key respect: The physical scale of objects in EVE ranges from a meter or so (a corpse model, or a canister) to objects more than 100 kilometers wide. In EVE you can zoom in to fill the screen with one of those 1 meter canisters, or you can zoom back to see a 100 km wide structure.
Meanwhile, many other games are scaled to the human body, so for example in a game like WoW you'll rarely see buildings more than 10 stories high, and camera angles and distances are limited in relation to this.
This makes delivering high-quality textures a much more difficult problem to solve for EVE than for other games. When you zoom in on that 100km structure to fill the screen with the 1m can sitting in front of it, we'd need the equivalent of 100 million pixels across, or 10x10^16 pixels, to retain high-resolution detail in that structure. A compressed texture map that size would be something like 10,000 terabytes.
There are various possible technical solutions to this problem. One is to add detail procedurally below a certain scale. We've considered doing this but it's a challenge to do it in a way that looks natural.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1271
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Posted - 2015.03.24 16:41:03 -
[20] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Will we get nebulas in HD in first place? Or rather are there HD textures for them ? We do have raw nebula maps that are 2x the linear resolution (so 4x the size on disk) of what we're delivering. Delivering these should distinctly increase nebula sharpness on high-res displays, and should be a nice improvement.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1272
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Posted - 2015.03.24 22:17:55 -
[21] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Will it only give sharper textures, or will it actually increase the overall resolution / quality on the nebulaes so they can look better when you zoom in on them?
As it is now, you don't have to zoom much in on them before the nebulaes starts to look really bad.
See my post right before the one you quoted. If you're asking for infinite fractal detail in our nebulas, sorry, that's not in the plan right now.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1664
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Posted - 2015.09.10 16:01:46 -
[22] - Quote
I'll refer you to an earlier post in this very thread.
The problem with delivering higher resolution textures is that the value isn't there. We can double our texture resolution and it just won't improve the look of the game that much.
As I stated in the linked post, games like shooters or over-the-shoulder MMOs have a very well-defined range of scales for viewing objects that allow them to get a lot of improvement from high-res texture packs.
EVE's scale ranges from objects as small as a person to objects twice the size of Manhattan Island, and no bitmapped texture-map will ever be large enough to look good at all those scales.
What we are doing is working on improving the textures for ships and other assets as we touch them for graphic redesigns or other work, so that they look better at the size of the screen. Since this work has to be done asset-by-asset, it takes time.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1667
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Posted - 2015.09.11 12:50:52 -
[23] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:FFS. Why do u guys consistantly announce stuff (during a keynote noless) and then 6 months later say ... 'Oh wait.. yeah this is not going to happen now..or its going to take a longer cause we have other priorities...(which is a polite way of saying its now never going to happen). In this instance, it's because we got into doing it, then, looking at the images side-by-side, realized it didn't add much. All of us were surprised at how little a difference it made.
If we make this happen, it's going to be to check a box, not because it adds much to the look of the game. We have at least one other change coming not too far out that will do a lot more to make EVE look better when running at highest settings.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1796
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:33:39 -
[24] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Honestly, how can you trust yourself if you release minmatar space nebulae as is, (as example) believing it's okay, while it's actually crap? With respect to the environments, we were aware of the limitations of what we were releasing, and trust me, we did see the issues that you've pointed out. The image compression artifacts that are particularly visible in a certain regions of space are a technical limitation that requires further work, but our judgment was that the additional feeling of depth that having nebulas occlude stars provided was of greater value.
As I mentioned in the other thread on that matter, we're still discussing how to address that particular technical limitation.
CCP Darwin wrote:We have at least one other change coming not too far out that will do a lot more to make EVE look better when running at highest settings.
For those keeping score, this comment of mine referred to the new Temporal Anti-aliasing feature that is now enabled when you choose the highest anti-aliasing choice in the graphics settings. If you have a modern, high-end graphics card and haven't chosen that setting, I suggest giving it a try.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1797
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Posted - 2015.12.11 00:12:38 -
[25] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I would, but I'm on a Mac... And not getting to enjoy any of the new shield effects, either. Is this because you have to turn down graphics settings on your machine?
If you have high graphics settings turned on and you haven't disabled effects, you should see new shield effects on the Mac client. If not, please bug report it and we can check it out.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1806
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Posted - 2015.12.12 01:49:53 -
[26] - Quote
Manssell wrote:It's actually in the patch notes that this is not available for Macs, which is becoming rather too common recently that you release something new that doesn't work for your Mac customers.
"Known issue: The Mac client impact effects are lacking visual fidelity."
We rushed at the last minute to get the effect working for the Mac, which it didn't to begin with because in early development it relied on DX11. Unfortunately it appears that remaining issues didn't get fully resolved before we released. Sorry about that.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1877
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Posted - 2016.01.20 10:25:23 -
[27] - Quote
Asptar Monastair wrote:With the texturing technology applied to citadels, will we see this applied to other large objects in space like stations, titans, gates etc?
For those interested in technical details:
We're using a couple of new (to EVE) techniques with citadels to improve the feeling of detail when you're up close. First is to use a shader that adds in more visual detail as you get closer. Second is to use lightweight instanced geometry to break up the shape and add visual complexity.
If these techniques achieve what we hope in terms of making citadels feel like they have a natural level of detail when up close, we'll definitely be using them a lot more to improve the feeling of large structures and ships.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1877
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Posted - 2016.01.20 15:03:43 -
[28] - Quote
DrTheFunk wrote:I have a GTX 970 in my "Mac". It needs some love. I'm jealous of the shield graphics on windows.
Don't worry, we're acutely aware of limitations like this in our Mac client and we're working on it. Sorry I don't have anything concrete to share on the shield effects at this time, though.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1882
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Posted - 2016.01.27 12:02:37 -
[29] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Why not just generate textures procedurally as you zoom in (unless the shader does this already)?
More or less, that's what it's doing. The typical issue with going fully procedural with texture generation is that it's very hard to art direct, so this is more of a hybrid technique that uses hand-painted textures as an input.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1981
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Posted - 2016.02.21 03:04:54 -
[30] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Hirisho Presolana wrote:
what about delivering an HD texture package for the hangar only.. that's where most people have the opportunity to look at their shiny ship with peace.. it should be a gorgeous view! at that point the HD texture can fill the proper scale of the model..
As they pointed out, anything that gets released will be expected to be supported. They don't want to release a bunch of resolution specific content that would need to be updated each time they did a major graphics update. They want to create sort of resolution independent procedurally adapted content in order to lessen the expected workload of creating new content in the future. Or so it seems from what I read. Delivering higher-resolution textures isn't off the table, it's just something we prioritized below other projects we could take on that we felt would bring more visual value (including a more procedural approach.)
Making higher-res textures hangar-only would certainly be an option if performance testing with high-res textures in space yields unexpected problems. However, I think if we're going to go that far, we'd probably rather go all the way with it if we can.
We haven't forgotten high-res textures and we haven't ruled them out, we just haven't prioritized getting them into a release.
Murkar Omaristos wrote:low resolution of some textures will be ever more apparent. This is possibly true, and it bothers us also. We're looking at a number of changes that each should provide some incremental improvement in this area, but I'd rather not get into details right now.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1982
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Posted - 2016.02.22 10:18:42 -
[31] - Quote
OK, fair enough. Since I've stated that we put off deploying high-resolution textures to enable other work, I thought you might appreciate having a list of highlights of what we've done with that time since last year's Fanfest:
- Updated effects for combat and support modules
- Redesigned Dominix
- Updated all stations, outposts, and ships to latest shader model
- Kill marks on ships
- New shield and armor effects
- Visual damage feedback
- New booster design.
- In-client video playback for Eve Flight Academy videos
- A large number of new ships and structures coming out in the upcoming Citadels release.
- Numerous Mac client updates and fixes
(And also, I should note that there has been some behind-the-scenes work done to lay the groundwork for deploying higher-res textures in the future.)
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1994
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Posted - 2016.02.26 19:19:37 -
[32] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:If you went overboard back when you said you had the high res textures, just say so. I think you can admit you don't have them instead of beating around the bush all the time. We have them for many ships (particularly recently-redesigned ships), but there are a number of technical steps necessary to deliver them for the client, only some of which have been completed.
That said, many of the blockiness artifacts you're seeing are more about the compression format than the resolution. Why this hasn't been updated yet are a number of interconnected platform dependencies that will take some time to resolve.
Also, just to be clear, we would still like to do this, it's just been (as I've stated) pushed aside by other work, and the benefit isn't currently enough to bump it above those other things in priority.
So when might this happen? Not 2015 (obviously.) Not in the next few months. But, since we keep working on it between other things, it's not a dead idea, either.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1997
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Posted - 2016.02.26 21:23:32 -
[33] - Quote
Immortal Soldier wrote:If you're worried about clients using tons of resources just use the (Can't remember proper name but you know it) technique where the game draws a higher detail model the closer the camera gets. Trust me, if we didn't already do this, those 4000 ship fleet fights would never, ever happen.
Our current concerns about this are less about client performance and more about issues related to details of how we deliver the content. We're not set up now to deliver different content for differently capable clients, for example, and we don't want to double the installation size for someone who gets no benefit.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2304
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Posted - 2016.09.14 11:04:17 -
[34] - Quote
Rene Dorgiers wrote:How many more Yes's do they need?! And why is this petition even necessary if it's just an optional download? What's wrong with just giving us options? Why do they ships look the same size as one another? A frigate is dwarfed by a battleship but next to each other, the textures are the same size. It's 2016, is that really acceptable now? They say the visual difference isn't noticeable yet a character made with the new character creation tool is, given how little you see your character (WiS is hardly worth mentioning)?
Interest is certainly high. However, no matter how many people ask for a thing, if we do an enormous amount of work, pushing aside other improvements to do it, and deliver a high-res texture pack for it just to be a tremendous disappointment, we haven't ultimately done the right thing for players.
To refresh everyone's memory about where we've been on this:
- We do not now have a means to provide optional graphic asset downloads for the game. Development could change this, but it has not been a priority due to the rest of the points on this list. (The game itself is also a pretty large download already, and significantly increasing texture resolution would compound that.)
- We do have higher-res textures than what we're delivering for some, but not all, ships and space assets. However, the resolution is not a lot more than what we're delivering in terms of its visual detail. The textures we have are generally scaled to look reasonably good on a 2k display with ships filling a large portion of the screen.
- There has been some work done toward supporting this goal technically. However, our testing has consistently shown us that the visual benefit is minimal in practice, so we currently (once again, after going back and forth a few times) do not have plans to release such a texture pack.
- Citadels include a shader that introduces detail at varying scales. We're looking at applying this in a wider variety of situations so objects feel more natural when you're very close to them for their size.
- Eve's enormously varying scale is a unique issue to the game, so solutions that have worked for your favorite third-person MMO or first-person-shooter won't work for us.
Regarding Eve's new vs. old character creator systems, that's a totally different situation. The new character creator has more naturally proportioned characters, more realistic lighting, more realistic texture design, and the differences you see have nothing to do with texture resolution.
Bottom line: The value isn't there for a high-resolution texture pack. We're spending our time working on other ways to make the game look better.
Quote:Shrek came on...
They literally spent the first 20 minutes of the movie whining that it wasn't in high definition and it looked awful and pressing their nose to the screen so they could complain that they thought they saw some pixel edges/etc... Before we looked it up and discovered that it *was* a high-definition version of the movie - it was all in their head.
These issues are really complicated because many viewers don't distinguish between the cues they use to establish whether an image feels real, or real enough.
In the case of Shrek, (a project I know well because I was present for its production at Pacific Data Images in Palo Alto in the late 90s,) the lighting and rendering technology was at least two or three generations earlier than what's seen in high-end movies today, and it really shows, without regard to display resolution. The movie was, however, rendered at slightly better than 720p resolution, far short of what a 1080p monitor will display, so it's possible that your friend was reacting to some real resolution artifacts.
It's also true that most television sets, unadjusted, out of the box, apply a ton of sharpening that can create jagged edges where there weren't any before. It's possible your friend's concerns could have been entirely addressed by turning down the "sharpness" setting on the display.
I should point out that the "unsophisticated viewers won't notice" argument has NEVER been a justification for doing less than the best work possible at CCP or any of the animation or visual effects companies I've worked for in my 20.5 years in the field. In this instance, it's more like "sophisticated viewers who know exactly what to look for don't think the difference will add much to the experience, after doing actual visual tests with real ships and textures."
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2305
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Posted - 2016.09.14 13:05:58 -
[35] - Quote
Sorry, didn't mean to pick on your example. It was just particularly interesting to me as a specific case.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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