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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:14:00 -
[1]
Really I don't see how something so integral to the game can have so absolutely few skills to support it.
I say that they should add skills that reduce the loaded volume of items.
Like say:
Ammunition Handling Rank 5, Intel and willpower
Skill at storing and transporting munitions 10% reduction in the volume of loaded missilles and ammunition per level.
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Bulk Transport Rank 3, Intel and willpower
Skill at storing and transporting goods 5% reduction in the volume of loaded trade goods per level.
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Hazmat certification, rank 3, Memory and willpower
Skill at storing and transporting volatile chemicals 5% reduction in the volume of loaded isotopes per level.
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Efficient packing, rank 1, Mem and willpower
Skill at storing and transporting items 5% reduction in the volume of loaded packaged modules per level.
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Construction transport, rank 4, Int and mem
Skill at storing and transporting used in production 5% reduction in the volume of loaded components, RDB's and RAMS per level.
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Resource shipment, rank 2, Mem and willpower
Skill at storing and transporting ore and minerals 7.5% reduction in the volume of loaded ore and minerals per level.
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Interstellar logistical mastery, rank 10, Mem and Int
Skill at storing and transporting ships, 3% reduction in the volume of loaded (packaged) ships.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Winterblink on 27/09/2005 18:21:49
Why reduce the size of things when you can just get yourself a freighter to haul it around? Seriously. I mean when you're talking volumes large enough to make skills like these important to gameplay, you should be looking at a ship that can haul them properly.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:28:00 -
[3]
First off, these are oriented towards the lower side of the spectrum.
Predominantly newer players and small corps, both of which have no access to Freighters which are high end content.
Also it makes life easier for individual players, the ore skill at level 4 with an Exequeror = ninja mining for the win. And Caldari pilots can finally stop complaining about the volume of missilles if they train up the ammo handling skill.
Essentially Freighters are high end group content, this would be low end individual content.
The only problem is that its such a good idea it might get implemented, but I'm terrified CCP will go about things thier normal way and boost the volumes of everything before doing so.
PS, the Interstellar transport skill IS high end contend, thats why its a rank 10 skill, because it is intended for freighter pilots.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Tobias Tre'mair
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:32:00 -
[4]
Makes sense to me. Kind of like Loadmasters in the military, they don't "shrink the volume" so much as they know exactly how to package what they need to package in just the right manner so it all fits and keeps the load evenly balanced and secure. Could be usefull and make it a bit more realistic.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:35:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Gierling
Predominantly newer players and small corps, both of which have no access to Freighters which are high end content.
That's all great, but why do this? What's wrong with oh god, making more than one trip to haul stuff? Or getting a few of your corp buddies in haulers to move stuff in a single push?
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Deka Kador
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Gierling
Predominantly newer players and small corps, both of which have no access to Freighters which are high end content.
That's all great, but why do this? What's wrong with oh god, making more than one trip to haul stuff? Or getting a few of your corp buddies in haulers to move stuff in a single push?
You're being a little harsh. The skills themselves aren't such a bad idea and a bit of diveristy in hauling sounds like a good thing alround.
______________________________________________
Note| This character is for forum posting purposes only. |
Elise Masutra
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:47:00 -
[7]
i'd like to see some of this stuff too. there are no real hauling related skills, are there? and i think many peolple make their sik with hauling goods. and just calling for a freighter is no solution. most of us don't have the money for one or don't want to risk such an expensive asset.
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Brolly
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Posted - 2005.09.27 18:53:00 -
[8]
Great idea, i'd love one for compacting minerals as carrying millions of units across the universe ain't my reason of fun.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 19:28:00 -
[9]
Not to mention that this also aids in logistics, Freighters cant fuel POS's or dreadnaughts, or resupply fleets with ammo.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 19:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deka Kador
You're being a little harsh. The skills themselves aren't such a bad idea and a bit of diveristy in hauling sounds like a good thing alround.
Just calling for a freighter is a bit OTT too - you're don't use a Dreadnaught for level 3 missions do you?
It's not being harsh, and I'm not saying the OP didn't put any thought into the post. I'm just saying I don't necessarily agree there's a hole to be filled here, at least with generalized skills. Make them specialized. As one person already suggested, it's akin to a loadmaster role in the military. Why not create these as part of a loadmaster role, where these skills have some prerequisites such as Industry V or something.
Or take it a step further...
Say I'm Gallente (and really, who wouldn't want to be). Have a skill which lets me more efficiently pack Gallente technologies such as hybrid guns, drones, hybrid ammo, and requires me to have my race's hauler skill maxed.
Just some thoughts. And don't be so quick to knock down a dissenting viewpoint :)
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 19:44:00 -
[11]
I am not a fan of requiring ANY level 5's as prerequisites, especially for ancillary skills, and low end stuff.
I see this as being to a hauler what motion prediction or targetting are to a fighter.
If you want to add a loadmaster skill that requires industry 5 that gives a boost in cargo capacity in general and is the needed skill for expander 2's then that is fine with me, however I am discussing the basics. There isn't enough "meat" on the profession currently to add specialization (Which for the purposes of this analogy will be compared to gravy).
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gierling
I am not a fan of requiring ANY level 5's as prerequisites, especially for ancillary skills, and low end stuff.
But we do already, don't we? To use a tech2 small gun you need the base small gun skill up to level 5 before you can get your further bonuses. In order to fly the best industrials in the game you need level 5. And using small guns is certainly not above a "low end" setup.
Originally by: Gierling
I see this as being to a hauler what motion prediction or targetting are to a fighter.
There's definitely a huge difference between the two. For instance to use motion predicton and targetting one has to get into range, activate guns, reload with different ammos, etc. Hauling is dragging and dropping into your hold, setting a waypoint and flipping the autopilot's on switch.
Originally by: Gierling
If you want to add a loadmaster skill that requires industry 5 that gives a boost in cargo capacity in general and is the needed skill for expander 2's then that is fine with me, however I am discussing the basics. There isn't enough "meat" on the profession currently to add specialization (Which for the purposes of this analogy will be compared to gravy).
You're discussing the basics, but suggesting specialization. But that's just semantics. All I'm saying is that having a whole bunch of base skills for hauling gives clutter without real payoff or meaning, and if I were a brand new user to this game I'd rather have the latter than the former. And by the time I'd start caring, I'd have no problems fitting cargo expanders on my ship that give over 20% bonuses per slot than the small bonuses you're proposing.
Now, make them skills with high rank and prerequisites with much larger bonuses and the skills suddenly have meaning, and by extension so does the profession. Again, I'm not against what you're suggesting, I'm just pointing out how it could be done a different way that might make it worth the training time to pursue.
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Forger
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:10:00 -
[13]
YES!
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:10:00 -
[14]
You need to seed the profession with the basics first, and I don't support making the basics require industry 5, remember we need more stuff the newbies can do.
If its only specializations only specialists will do it, which kind of defeats the purpose of calling it a proffession.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
So'Kar
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:13:00 -
[15]
Good ideas there
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gierling
You need to seed the profession with the basics first, and I don't support making the basics require industry 5, remember we need more stuff the newbies can do.
We do? Are newbies bored? Seriously, I don't think hauling is high up on the list of things new players falling over each other to do. Almost every new player I've talked to in recent months has been more interested in being able to mine faster or kill things better.
You want the "profession" to have more meaning by having more skills, and I'm simply saying it will have less meaning if everyone has the skills and they're easy to train.
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Cabana Boy
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:17:00 -
[17]
I like the concept.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:24:00 -
[18]
I don't see a need to restrict the skills, you could make them have industry 4 as a prereq and that will keep most fighters off of them until later in thier carreers.
With a suitable other prereq, such as mining 4, astrogeology 4 for the mineral and ore skill.
For the ammo skill have it be industry 4 and gunnery 4.
We could have a reasonable range of the skills.
I just don't want to push anything but the ship one and maybe the component ram and RDB one off into the level 5 zone, possibly the isotope one as well.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:29:00 -
[19]
I would expect because this is being suggested as a benefit to new players that anything that obviously benefits non-new players (isotope hauling, tech2 production, for instance) would have appropriately stiff prerequisites.
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Bedrock
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:32:00 -
[20]
yes I love the idea
[Please support my 'AFK Indicator' idea!!] |
Tobias Tremair
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:34:00 -
[21]
I don't know if we need to do it, as you say, to give newbies more to do. Like I said previously it is more of an overall loadmaster profession with multiple areas that all inter-relate. Something like Winter suggests is probably a more fitting way to do it with racially specific skills due to the difference in size, mass, and overall design differences of their various pieces of equipment. The problem for newbies isn't having enough professions/jobs/things to do. I'm technically a newbie, and I'll tell you the biggest problem is figuring everything out, getting up and productive quickly, and finding others to do things with (all of which just take time, and perhaps some refinements to the in game utils, etc...). But it most deffinatly has nothing to do with not having enough skills/professions as the current amount is confusing enough as it is.
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 20:38:00 -
[22]
Ok Winterblink, I think we have reached a nice consensus.
The skills should have prereqs appropriatte to thier ranks, so the basic one for mods, and ammo shouldnt be that bad, but the production and isotopes and the like should.
With trade goods one requiring industry 4 and trading 4 or some such jazz.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Waldo Barnstormer
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Posted - 2005.09.27 21:01:00 -
[23]
i agree, not asking for a tardis that will carry a pos in it.. but something that could help me empty a jet can in 2 trips without EXPENSIVE named expanders would be nice
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.09.27 21:13:00 -
[24]
POS Modules... that could be another skill that requires anchoring 4.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
SULAN BARHIR
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Posted - 2005.09.27 21:28:00 -
[25]
excellent idea.
/signed.
Don't get in my Hit List. It's hard to get out.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.27 22:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gierling
Ok Winterblink, I think we have reached a nice consensus.
Well it's not like I was trying to put your idea down or anything. If I thought it was worthless I wouldn't have even replied.
Besides, we're in the same alliance so I pretty much have to be nice to you. :)
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Johnny Zed
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Posted - 2005.09.27 23:06:00 -
[27]
There is a covert way of doing what you ask for minerals, but you need high skills in refining and refining efficiency and scrapmetal processing. There are some manufactured items that weigh less then the minerals you get out of them.
There was a thread that listed what those items were.
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.09.28 00:10:00 -
[28]
This is an excellent idea..and I have to disagree with you WB.
Frieghters are nice...IF you don't mind mining for a month and paying almost what the ship is worth for a BPO holder to build it for you..oh..and the waiting lists...you might get it in 1-2 months.
For the small corps, being able to stuff things into a Iteron V or Occator for moving offices and production materials around..being able to fit more in is a good thing. It's not asking to make everything in one trip, it's asking to REDUCE the number of trips needed. Ever haul 50m trit from one office to another in a T1 Indy? I thought not.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.09.28 01:52:00 -
[29]
The issue to me is that even with a nutty ammount of ISK spent on expanders you go from around 30k m3 in an itty5 to a *million* in a freighter. That. Is a huge jump. And how much are 5 locals goin for nowadays? Figure 175M on the low side? So 8 times the price, 33 times the storage for a freighter if a 1.4bil sticker price is assumed.
Sure would be nice if it wasn't such a crazy jump. I'm not sure adding a slew of skills is the answer though, because think about it - the folks who can afford to purchase a freighter (and I include our corp) really get it over on the folks who can't. Why? They simply never have to train those skills, they leverage their monetary power to simply skip them.
And with all the skills in the game as it is to train, this just doesn't seem fair. It widens the gap between the haves and the have nots. Sure, it gives budding haulers a minor way to mitigate lack of funds - but unless the propositions here are put on steriods (100% gains in expander effectiveness per level type skills), then it won't scratch the problem.
Another direction would be to provide ships or modules which provide middle grounds. Mini-freighters. Tier 3 transports. Stuff that fits in the 200k m3 and 500k m3 areas and has prices which fit those demographics.
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Drakos
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Posted - 2005.09.28 01:58:00 -
[30]
i like the skills ideia :)
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