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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
6
   |
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks,
so the new scan mechanisms coming with odyssey will give us
a) new scanning mechanisms like presets of probe-positions
b) new modules for your ship to increase the scan-range, scan-time etc. (adding to the old scanskills)
What are the consequences of this changes?
1.) easier access for casual scanning pilots
2.) a big decrease of the time you need to scan something (or someone) for experienced pilots
So, 1.) is a good thing. Especially for not so experienced pilots the old scanning was horrible. Easier access is good, especially if you want new pilots to expierence the new exploration sites easily.
But 2.) gives me and my corpmates some headaches. We live in a wormhole, and scanning down enemy pilots is an important part in our daily life. Also our enemies are scanning us down often, at least they try.
I dont now what the timeframe for scanning someone down with combat probes is, but i think it will be a lot quicker with the changes. Maybe too quick. Maybe you guys can give me some numbers on that.
TL;DR: Scanning ships down might be too quick now.
What do you think 
o7 |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1355
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
The "new-old" system was created to make things easier for the casual player. The new additions just make scanning a bit too simplistic imo. I wouldn't go as far as to say dumbing down but it's close.
Edit: If you think the current system is horrid you should have seen the old one. Ofc the fact it was a PITA did make it quite profitable.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
I thought about giving the new scanning-modules only bonusses to core scanner probes, not the combat probes.
This could solve the problem i see with this new changes. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE
Initiative Mercenaries
727
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skills associated with scanning are being nerfed to compensate for the new modules.
Oh god. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Skills associated with scanning are being nerfed to compensate for the new modules.
Can you give me a source on that? i hear the first time of this. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE
Initiative Mercenaries
728
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread
Oh god. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
1246
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
We elite wormhole types with our unmatched scanning skills will still be at the top of the pile, even if the drooling braindeads like ice miners are capable of the most basic scanning activities now |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 08:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thank you. But the changes are still unconfirmed. If they are doing this, i think it will be okay. :) |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm still waiting to see things in action more. Hopefully they will strike a good compromise between accessibility and time taken to scan a signature down. I get your possible concerns though OP. |
Akinesis
CRIMSON ASSAULT
Brotherhood of the Kebab
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Skills associated with scanning are being nerfed to compensate for the new modules.
I read this a lot. Scan skills are not being nerfed. The bonuses of the support skills are just getting balanced with the Astromentrics skill. It makes a lot more sense and, depending on your level of skills, will buff the individuals current scanning level (until all skills are trained to the same level). I think people are overlooking that the lost 5% of the support skills are being moved to the Astrometrics skill.
For instance (in my case):
Current:
Astrometrics L5 + Astrometric Aquisition L4 = 40% reduction in scan time.
After:
Astrometrics L5 + Astrometric Aquisition L4 = 45% reduction in scan time.
I think the new change is a good thing. And the new modules will add further enhancement. They're not compensating for any loss, because there is no loss. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 09:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Akinesis, if this is true, adding the module-scan-enhancements scanning will be a lot quicker.
Quote:Current:
Astrometrics L5 + Astrometric Aquisition L4 = 40% reduction in scan time.
After:
Astrometrics L5 + Astrometric Aquisition L4 = 45% reduction in scan time. + module-effects
If this will be done this way, scanning will be too quick i think. You will be able to scan down a ship on a savespot in seconds. I don't think this is good. |
Akinesis
CRIMSON ASSAULT
Brotherhood of the Kebab
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
True, adding the modules will make it faster to scan ships. I live in a WH, so this will work against me as much as it will work for me. I was just trying to quell the 'sanning's being nerfed!' rage. When in actual fact, it's getting a huge buff with the modules and current scanning skills are largely unchanged (someone with all four scanning skills trained to, say, L4 will not notice a difference and only someone with staggered skills will notice an up or down difference).
CCP wanted to make scanning more appealing and the modules will aid new players with decent scanning ability a lot faster. For those with high scanning skills already, the addition of the modules will make them vastly more efficient (especially with scan implants on top!!).
However, if you think about it (from a WH perspective), a seasoned combat scanner will use the probes no shorter than before anyway. And a seasoned potential victim should still be able to spot the probes on DSCAN and still get away in time if the hunter is relatively unexperienced.
|
Gnoshia
Section 8.
Fatal Ascension
35
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Posted - 2013.04.29 10:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Akinesis wrote:True, adding the modules will make it faster to scan ships. I live in a WH, so this will work against me as much as it will work for me. I was just trying to quell the 'sanning's being nerfed!' rage. When in actual fact, it's getting a huge buff with the modules and current scanning skills are largely unchanged (someone with all four scanning skills trained to, say, L4 will not notice a difference and only someone with staggered skills will notice an up or down difference).
CCP wanted to make scanning more appealing and the modules will aid new players with decent scanning ability a lot faster. For those with high scanning skills already, the addition of the modules will make them vastly more efficient (especially with scan implants on top!!).
However, if you think about it (from a WH perspective), a seasoned combat scanner will use the probes no shorter than before anyway. And a seasoned potential victim should still be able to spot the probes on DSCAN and still get away in time if the hunter is relatively unexperienced.
Don't forget that all probes can be launched at once. No more clicking for each individual probe to be launched. That alone is tons of saved time. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gnoshia wrote:
Don't forget that all probes can be launched at once. No more clicking for each individual probe to be launched. That alone is tons of saved time.
This adds another factor of less time needed. Even if i dont like this, in the end there will be a lot more fight happening because of this change than before. More advantage for the hunter, less advantage for the prey.
Edit: Oh God. This sounds like i am trying to defend carebears. After i thought about it, more fights are better. Hopefully i will be on the right side of the gun.  |
Akinesis
CRIMSON ASSAULT
Brotherhood of the Kebab
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 10:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Forgot about that, lol In that case, that alone will result in more ship losses. Those 6-or-so seconds saved will surely result in more death. But that is a different issue to the skills/modules :) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
1824
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd highly recommend trying this out on the test server once it's available there, and posting feedback in the test server forum. Whether or not it's "too fast" can only really be judged by experienced users (ie, you lot) trying it and seeing where the balance falls  |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
235
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
I posted this in the exploration thread. But as the OP says, I also have particular concerns with the new scanning system.
"I am concerned about the details regarding the probing mechanics. What will happen to those who use 8 probes, will we still be able to use them? Also scanning using combat scanning probes will become incredibly quick. Has this been taken account of in the balance decisions, or is it intended that ships become much easier to scan down? Scanning had become sort of an art in its current form, my concern is that it sounds as though it has become dumbed down quite a bit."
CCP Greyscale wrote:I'd highly recommend trying this out on the test server once it's available there, and posting feedback in the test server forum. Whether or not it's "too fast" can only really be judged by experienced users (ie, you lot) trying it and seeing where the balance falls
Will certainly test this out on the server. My only concern is that scanning has been dumbed down now, Would it be possible to confirm whether this is the case? Thanks |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
My only concern is that scanning has been dumbed down now, Would it be possible to confirm whether this is the case? Thanks
As i wrote in my first post, making scanning easier and more accessible is not the problem. The Problem could be the decrease in time you need to scan ships down.
And until now i see two potential solutions:
a) Decrease the bonusses given by skills, so scanning would take longer (even with the new modules), but not longer than now.
b) Let the modules only give the bonusses to the core scanner probes, not the combat scanner probes.
But as CCP Greyscale mentioned, we have to test in on SiSi and can complain afterwards about it  |
blink alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.29 11:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
My only concern is that scanning has been dumbed down now, Would it be possible to confirm whether this is the case? Thanks
As i wrote in my first post, making scanning easier and more accessible is not the problem. The Problem could be the decrease in time you need to scan ships down. And until now i see two potential solutions: a) Decrease the bonusses given by skills, so scanning would take longer (even with the new modules), but not longer than now. b) Let the modules only give the bonusses to the core scanner probes, not the combat scanner probes. But as CCP Greyscale mentioned, we have to test in on SiSi and can complain afterwards about it
I do not think the speed in which you could scan someone down is really an issue. Someone using dscan + probes is going to scan someone down on the first scan anyways. I think the real concern is with this vast signal strength increase due to the new modules. With this higher signal strength you will be able to scan certain ships down with your probes off dscan that you currently can not. |
Lord Okinaba
Hidden Agenda
84
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Posted - 2013.04.29 12:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well I think less time scanning and more time actually doing stuff is a good thing.
One thing I would say, is that those large Green and Orange boxes which display sites in space are FUGLY and ruin the overall aesthetics of the game. |
Spurty
V0LTA
Verge of Collapse
842
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 12:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hmm time to get my sisi instance up and running again then
---
GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥
GÇò Philip K. **** |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1359
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 12:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:I'd highly recommend trying this out on the test server once it's available there, and posting feedback in the test server forum. Whether or not it's "too fast" can only really be judged by experienced users (ie, you lot) trying it and seeing where the balance falls
Is there a ETA on when it will hit test? I know its a bit early to know for sure, but a range would be nice.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url] |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
846
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 12:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
I honestly don't understand why scanning should be made easier or faster. It's not difficult to do if your IQ is more than 70 and it's already fast enough. UI updated sure, making it easier no.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1729
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 12:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Skills associated with scanning are being nerfed to compensate for the new modules.
no, theyre not since the removed bonus is being added to the astro skill. why do people not get this... |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
1088
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:I honestly don't understand why scanning should be made easier or faster. It's not difficult to do if your IQ is more than 70 and it's already fast enough. UI updated sure, making it easier no.
I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a second - is scanning needed AT ALL in this game? Someone earlier said he's worried about probing getting "dumbed down". How much dumber can it get? It's already pretty dumb, non-challenging, non-entertaining "busy work" that only requires absolutely minimal skill.
Do we really need *manual* D-scan and *manual* probing? Are they challenging? I don't know about you, but they're not challenging to me. I can scan and probe when drunk and half-comatose. Entertaining? Again, not to me. Tedious, boring and repetitive more like. Does it improve the overall gaming experience? How can it? When it is neither challenging nor entertaining?
So, why do we need it at all? |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
1828
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Will certainly test this out on the server. My only concern is that scanning has been dumbed down now, Would it be possible to confirm whether this is the case? Thanks
I wouldn't say so, no, but I think that "dumbed down" is a horrible, ugly phrase with no consistent usage or standards, so I can't guarantee that other people won't disagree with me |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
1830
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:I honestly don't understand why scanning should be made easier or faster. It's not difficult to do if your IQ is more than 70 and it's already fast enough. UI updated sure, making it easier no. I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a second - is scanning needed AT ALL in this game? Someone earlier said he's worried about probing getting "dumbed down". How much dumber can it get? It's already pretty dumb, non-challenging, non-entertaining "busy work" that only requires absolutely minimal skill. Do we really need *manual* D-scan and *manual* probing? Are they challenging? I don't know about you, but they're not challenging to me. I can scan and probe when drunk and half-comatose. Entertaining? Again, not to me. Tedious, boring and repetitive more like. Does it improve the overall gaming experience? How can it? When it is neither challenging nor entertaining? So, why do we need it at all?
I approve of this sort of question. Every minute that you're spending interacting with the UI is a minute you can't spend interacting with other players. There's generally a minimal amount of UI time that's needed to work with mechanics that are deep enough that they frame interesting and varied player-player interactions, but it's easy to fall into a trap of rewarding "good at using an obtuse UI" and thinking that's "interesting gameplay". |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
2655
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:I honestly don't understand why scanning should be made easier or faster. It's not difficult to do if your IQ is more than 70 and it's already fast enough. UI updated sure, making it easier no. I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a second - is scanning needed AT ALL in this game? Someone earlier said he's worried about probing getting "dumbed down". How much dumber can it get? It's already pretty dumb, non-challenging, non-entertaining "busy work" that only requires absolutely minimal skill. Do we really need *manual* D-scan and *manual* probing? Are they challenging? I don't know about you, but they're not challenging to me. I can scan and probe when drunk and half-comatose. Entertaining? Again, not to me. Tedious, boring and repetitive more like. Does it improve the overall gaming experience? How can it? When it is neither challenging nor entertaining? So, why do we need it at all?
Why not remove PVE first? It's more tedious, repetitive and boring, and does not improve the overall game experience.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
276
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tbh ship scanning was already too fast.
Notice how noone uses proper sniper fleets or setups anymore?
I think scanning PVE content needed speeding up by a sliding scale of 'time vs reward' - saving probe formations etc helps solve this....
PVP scanning needed more 'errors' or counter-scanning mechanics in order to slow it down if for example you're scanning down a sniper fleet you shouldn't be able to land at 0km on them every 60 seconds.
That fairly useless target breaker module would be a good candidate for an additional anti-scanning role if you ask me. Cheers. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
1830
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 13:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Tbh ship scanning was already too fast.
Notice how noone uses proper sniper fleets or setups anymore?
I think scanning PVE content needed speeding up by a sliding scale of 'time vs reward'. PVP scanning needed more 'errors' or counter-scanning mechanics in order to slow it down if for example you're in a sniper fleet.
That fairly useless target breaker module would be a good candidate for an additional anti-scanning role if you ask me. Cheers.
We need to do something about the interaction between probes and sniper fleets, yes. |
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