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MODERN FINANCES REPORT: CLONED SOLDIERS PROVIDE HIGH RETURN ON INVESTMENT

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Tobias Annages The Scope Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.04.30 03:58:00 - [1] - Quote http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/modern-finances-report-cloned-soldiers-provide-high-return-on-investment/ Geras GÇô Nearly two months after the existence of cloned soldiers was made public to the cluster by Jacus Roden, Modern Finances has released a positive report on the financial viability of the soldiers. According to the report, the average cloned soldier begins providing a greater return on investment with each passing day, allowing them to quickly overcome their initial cost.
Makoto Priano Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 362	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:14:00 - [2] - Quote This isn't terribly surprising. While the materiel losses are likely staggering, the value of essentially immortal veteran soldiers with no fear of pain or death-- I'm not in the infantry, but even I can see the value in that. I suppose I may have to expand the Priano security service to include clone detachments.
Heinel Coventina University of Caille Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.04.30 05:29:00 - [3] - Quote So does this mean they're officially ready for prime time?
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 1112	Posted - 2013.04.30 09:08:00 - [4] - Quote The immortal mercenaries... tools of our ambition and profit.
Makkal Hanaya Revenent Defence Corperation 378	Posted - 2013.04.30 09:29:00 - [5] - Quote How can they provide a reliable return on profit when they have no long-term contract with whatever corporation and organization created them? although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
Stitcher Re-Awakened Technologies Inc 1178	Posted - 2013.04.30 09:58:00 - [6] - Quote It's nice to have some company in immortality. If the setup cost for the technology the troopers are using can be brought down it might soon be viable to introduce its widespread use in ship senior officers, fighter pilots and other high-value personnel. Get it cheap enough, we might even be able to issue it to the whole crew and replace the evacuation systems with damage control systems and ablative internal plating. That's probably not realistic in the short term, but technology historically gets cheaper with use. Picture it - a human society where dying is optional. We'd start making real progress then. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Aquila Shadow BetaMax. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.30 10:12:00 - [7] - Quote Stitcher wrote: Picture it - a human society where dying is optional. We'd start making real progress then. Or we could tear our self's apart and leave New Eden as lifeless as the void. Lets face it if we use capsuleers as a measure of how we use immortal technology it doesn't bode well for the future. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
StoneCold Somali Coast Guard Authority 152	Posted - 2013.04.30 11:20:00 - [8] - Quote can you please stop using cruise control (caplock) for your threatitles? most appreciated. For Hire Psychotic Monk for CSM
Uriel Khaden Hedion University Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2013.04.30 12:44:00 - [9] - Quote Interesting how the very final part of the report is a brief mention of the potential negatives followed by the complete dismissal of them due to the financial benefit of the program. Let us not concern ourselves with the state of living these individuals will have should they ever wish to leave the battlefield, nor worry overmuch about the increased potential for prolonged warfare that will now engulf even the ground wars; the monetary return on investment is too solid to ignore. While I am thankful that the initial outlook would be fewer unnecessary deaths due to conflict and war, the potential for widespread devastation looms in the backdrop.
Stitcher Re-Awakened Technologies Inc 1179	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:39:00 - [10] - Quote Aquila Shadow wrote: Stitcher wrote: Picture it - a human society where dying is optional. We'd start making real progress then. Or we could tear our self's apart and leave New Eden as lifeless as the void. Lets face it if we use capsuleers as a measure of how we use immortal technology it doesn't bode well for the future. It's a big universe, and there are always rough patches whenever the paradigm shifts. All progress is a calculated risk, and as unfortunate as it will doubtless end up being for individuals, I can only picture humanity benefiting. We've had the technology to extinct ourselves for centuries now and it hasn't happened yet, I don't see any reason why making death an expense rather than the termination of your existence should make the annihilation of humanity in this cluster any more likely. Quite the reverse. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Aelisha Achura-Waschi Exchange 179	Posted - 2013.04.30 13:55:00 - [11] - Quote I do believe, that once we manage to develop post-scarcity society for more than the most minute elite of our respective cultures, Stitcher's suggestion will be both viable and inevitable. The only limiting factor right now is genetic compatibility for the capsule, and whatever battery of tests verify the suitability of an individual for NIS implant technology. With the current lack of data on how exactly the NIS implant functions and the requirements for it's integration to the human body, I must make a cautious assertion that it is unlikely that everyone, even assuming infinite resources, would have the option of using such technology. If the stories and rumors are true, the Jove have an immortal society, but seeing, let alone speaking with one of those elusive individuals is incredibly unlikely, and deriving their secrets would approach impossibility. We're on our own with this problem, but should that resource bottleneck ever be overcome, I welcome the day that immortality AND freedom of choice (at least within a given framework) become a reality. Just adding that caveat to pre-empt the 'no death in Nation' line that will inevitably follow. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc.
Aquila Shadow BetaMax. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.30 14:43:00 - [12] - Quote If humanity was suddenly free of the limitations of mortality our baser instincts will inevitably take hold, populations would grow exponentially, room and resources would deplete at an accelerated rate and the wars of the future could be fought over simply needing room to stand or the major power blocks suddenly start to get ideas about settling old scores. If we take the current situation between the Matari and the Amarr as an example, the only real reason that war hasn't broken out between those two factions is the massive cost in lives and materials that such a war would entail. Remove the problem of mortality and suddenly the liberation of those left in the Empire after the Elders invasion seems like a much more achievable goal. Like wise on the other side of the border the empire suddenly has a chance to deal with the century's long thorn in their side and in the process bolster their labor force. Things don't look much better on in the North of the map. As much as those in the Federation and increasingly those in the State would love to see Heth thrown out of an air lock he still hold power and still holds the support of the majority in the State. Suddenly he has access to a limitless supply of soldiers and hello invasion of Luminaire take 2. Yeah ok he isn't the biggest fan of these soldiers but he isn't a complete fool (he is still in power) once he see's the Federation becoming immortal he will have a change of heart. Moving on, the only reason humanity still exists despite pod technonolgy is because it is so limited in its scope, Pod pilots like to think we are on the top of the food chain but we really aren't. The empires still have us on a leash weather you would like to admit it or not. They still hold onto the most lethal weapons and CONCORD could simply cut your strings, cancel your pilots license and your as mortal as a person on death row. Plus pod cloning is only half immortality, the moment you step out of your pod you become mortal again. CONCORD needs to do a far better job at regulating the new tech then they have done with us. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Stitcher Re-Awakened Technologies Inc 1180	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:00:00 - [13] - Quote Aquila Shadow wrote: If humanity was suddenly free of the limitations of mortality our baser instincts will inevitably take hold. That's an assertion, not a conclusion, and with the entire rest of your comment being founded on that non-sequitur I feel I must challenge you to demonstrate that this would, in fact, be the case. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Xindi Kraid The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est 406	Posted - 2013.04.30 15:58:00 - [14] - Quote These findings aren't all that surprising. People are expensive; it costs a lot to train someone no matter what you are training them for, and there is no substitute for on the job learning. Being able to screw up and relive to learn from your mistake is invaluable.
Aquila Shadow BetaMax. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote One need only read the history book to know that mankind has always felt the need for violence. Like it or not war and conflict have always been part of humanity with mortality being one of the few thing that really hold us back. Suddenly we are free from such a limitation and history starts to be written in blood rather then ink. Reading our own history book from even before the Raata Empire we can seen that the different tribes fought each other for things like land and wealth, after the federation came along we fought then over differences over ideology and then we fought them over land with the invasion of Caldari Prime. When the Amarr Empire found the Matari they attacked and enslaved them for generations, when they first found the Jove they launched an invasion of their space. The ancient Matari and Gallente tribes/clans/houses probably fought over similar things to the ancient Caldari tribes. The point is casualties are generally what stopped most of these wars, The first Caldari-Gallente was a stalemate with massive casualty figures on both sides which forced a surrender. The Amarr lacked the numbers after their loss to the Jove to both launch another attack and deal with the Minmatar rebellion. This new technology simply removes casualties all together. If you don't want to look at human nature for a reason not to use this tech en mass then lets look at some other reasons. What if Heth uses this tech on himself and the Dragonaurs? you then have and immortal terrorist cell the you cant get rid of. The bloody hand of Matari? They get a hold of it and the Amarr start to suffer for it. The pirate cartels? increases in raids on civilian population centers similar to the Incursions of Nation, obviously the aims would be different but still massive casualties. How about the null-sec capsuleer empires? Goonswarm slaughters thousands of innocent people in "Burn Jita" because they consider it "fun". Humanity is not really to become immortal, we have neither the maturity nor the unity for it to not be abused. A day may come when we can put aside things like race, creed, class and wealth and become one people, not four empires. On that day we may be ready to ascend, but that day is far in the future. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Arista Shahni Real Simple Construction The Citadel Consortium 18	Posted - 2013.04.30 16:36:00 - [16] - Quote No surprise. War is good business, and I suppose any soldier suffering severe enough psychological illness likely ends up in a cozy well-tended veteran hospital. Right? Right? Wait till they put them in space. We'll be obsolete. "I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?"
Stitcher Re-Awakened Technologies Inc 1182	Posted - 2013.04.30 17:42:00 - [17] - Quote Aquila Shadow wrote: One need only read the history book to know that mankind has always felt the need for violence. Sure, but that's not what you said. What you said was that immortality would "inevitably" cause our base instincts to take over. And now you just said that these same instincts have apparently been in control this whole time anyway. So, which is it, are things going to get worse (in which case, you need to prove it) or are things going to remain basically the same? (in which case, where's the problem?) An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
Sofia Roseburn Coreli Corporation 10	Posted - 2013.04.30 17:48:00 - [18] - Quote Arista Shahni wrote: No surprise. War is good business, and I suppose any soldier suffering severe enough psychological illness likely ends up in a cozy well-tended veteran hospital. Right? Right? Wait till they put them in space. We'll be obsolete. Hardly obsolete. Capsuleers and cloned soldiers are the product of two similar, yet also very different applied technologies. I don't foresee there being any overlap in the roles that each provide, merely collaboration to further corporate goals. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier.
Arista Shahni Real Simple Construction The Citadel Consortium 18	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:02:00 - [19] - Quote Sofia Roseburn wrote: Hardly obsolete. Capsuleers and cloned soldiers are the product of two similar, yet also very different applied technologies. I don't foresee there being any overlap in the roles that each provide, merely collaboration to further corporate goals. Except for the large percentage of Capsuleers who have nothing to do with Empire space or its corporate or government interests, of course. The ground-troops are immortals who currently can't fly away and make their own rules. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. In the meantime, I applaud your optimism. I have a very uncertain feeling about the future, myself. "I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?"
Sofia Roseburn Coreli Corporation 10	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:13:00 - [20] - Quote Not quite sure I understand your logic in regards to your opinion about capsuleer alliances operating in null. If anything, the bond between soldier and pilot would be strengthened in that environment what with the continued requirement for rapid force projection. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier.
Fredfredbug4 Eve Defence Force Tribal Band 817	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:19:00 - [21] - Quote Of course it's profitable! Do we really need someone to figure that out for us? Immortal super solders eliminate several major expenses for the military - No aid to family members of dead super soldiers - Don't need to recruit as many soldiers - Don't need to train as many soldiers - Physical Health is a non-issue Arista Shahni wrote: Wait till they put them in space. We'll be obsolete. These cloned soldiers do not have the capacity to control an entire ship with a single thought like we do. They would certainly obsolete crews even further, but us capsuleers are irreplaceable for the time being. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Arista Shahni Real Simple Construction The Citadel Consortium 18	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:28:00 - [22] - Quote Sofia Roseburn wrote: Not quite sure I understand your logic in regards to your opinion about capsuleer alliances operating in null. If anything, the bond between soldier and pilot would be strengthened in that environment what with the continued requirement for rapid force projection. That's quite alright. Unfortunately it is hard to lay out a gut feeling into an impenetrable argument for the readers of IGS as to why I feel the way I do. I suppose I haven't actually forgotten the thinly veiled hated of Capsuleers by just about everyone else in space, and that influences my feelings on the matter. Regardless I'm not going to turn it into a point of contention. This is simply my opinion on the matter and I feel no need to argue my right to have it or sway anyone else to it. "I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?"
Sofia Roseburn Coreli Corporation 10	Posted - 2013.04.30 19:34:00 - [23] - Quote I have nothing against your opinion at all, I'm merely trying to understand how you've come to it. I shall desist, however. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier.
Xindi Kraid The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est 412	Posted - 2013.05.01 00:22:00 - [24] - Quote Aquila Shadow wrote: The point is casualties are generally what stopped most of these wars, The first Caldari-Gallente was a stalemate with massive casualty figures on both sides which forced a surrender. A big part of the reason for the end of the war was actually the Amarr. A nation or religious zealots bent on enslaving the galaxy was seen as a greater threat. Arista Shahni wrote: Wait till they put them in space. We'll be obsolete. Is the technology they use even compatible with pod technology? Even if it were compatible, the question is why would it matter? Cloning systems exist in Pods because it is easy to fit them in a pod, so there are no benefits from the implants. Where this new technology would have benefits and possibly squeeze out non-immortals is other dangerous jobs. I actually wonder how long it will take till we end up with immortals working as spaceship crew.
Caellach Marellus Aideron Technologies 852	Posted - 2013.05.01 00:53:00 - [25] - Quote A soldier who gains the power of hindsight on death to improve their performance and is able to go again almost instantly is considered cost effective? Well who possibly saw that coming.... Enjoy your gaming. http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com

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