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Missile Damage vs Target MkII spreadsheet

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stoicfaux 2638	Posted - 2013.04.30 04:07:00 - [1] - Quote I have updated an old spreadsheet that lets you calculate the expected missile damage against various NPCs in terms of Volleys to Kill, Time to Kill, and Fractional Volleys to Kill. The spreadsheet also displays the two components of the missile damage formula (labeled as MF1 and MF2) to help you see the impact of rigor rigs, flare rigs, and TPs. You will need to use EFT or PYFA to get the launcher and ammo stats entered into the Missile Profiles sheet. It was written in LibreOffice 3.4.4. This is version 0.1, but the numbers should be (seem to be) correct. If not, then ping me. Download the spreadsheet from here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_CLlTV8bSxNMUVxOHF2R0FDNUE/edit?usp=sharing There are two sample tabs, * Tengu HAM vs HML, and * CNR Cruise II versus Odyssey CNR Cruise II. The Comparison tab lets you compare six profiles (e.g. HAM Tengus versus HML Tengus) against multiple target ships. A basic selection of NPC ships has been pre-entered. The Ships tab contains data from the last CCP database dump to contain NPC information. So no sleeper ships, but you can add the ships yourself. You may get a macro warning. You can decline to run the macros and inspect them first via Tools -> Macros -> Organize Macros -> ... The only macro that should be there is one to calculate the value of multiple Target Painters which are subject to the stacking penalty. The main reason for doing this was to get a basic handle on the HML versus HAM Tengu and to get an idea of the Cruise missile buff in Odyssey. For example, the following information was gleaned from the Tengu HAM v. HML tab. Spreadsheet numbers for HML v HAM (4xCN BCU, 1 PWNAGE TP, Skills V): First column is launcher + ammo. Second column is Time to Kill (ttk) in seconds Third column is Volleys to Kill (vtk) Pith Eliminator: (big slow battleship) * HML T1 - 49.8s - 13 volleys * HML Prec - 49.8s - 13 volleys * HML Fury - 38.3s - 10 volleys * HAM T1 - 36.8s - 18 * HAM Javelin - 38.8s - 19 * HAM Rage - 26.6s - 13 Gist General: (small fast battleship) * HML T1 - 46.0 - 12 * HML Prec - 46.0 - 12 * HML Fury - 34.5 - 9 * HAM T1 - 32.7 - 16 * HAM Javelin - 34.7 - 17 * HAM Rage - 24.5 - 12 Pithum Annihilator: (big slow cruiser) * HML T1 - 11.5 - 3 * HML Prec - 11.5 - 3 * HML Fury - 7.7 - 2 * HAM T1 - 6.1 - 3 * HAM Javelin - 8.2 - 4 * HAM Rage - 6.1 - 3 Mercenary Commander: (small fast cruiser) * HML T1 - 11.5 - 3 * HML Prec - 11.5 - 3 * HML Fury - 11.5 - 3 * HAM T1 - 10.2 - 5 * HAM Javelin - 10.2 - 5 * HAM Rage - 8.2 - 4 Arch Gistum Centurion: (elite cruiser) * HML T1 - 30.7 - 8 * HML Prec - 30.7 - 8 * HML Fury - 23.0 - 6 * HAM T1 - 22.5 - 11 * HAM Javelin - 24.5 - 12 * HAM Rage - 20.4 - 10 Angel Viper: (elite frigate) * HML T1 - 15.3 - 4 * HML Prec - 11.5 - 3 * HML Fury - 30.7 - 8 * HAM T1 - 20.4 - 10 * HAM Javelin - 24.5 - 12 * HAM Rage - 30.7 - 15 Spider Drone II: (super-fast drone) * HML T1 - 23.0 - 6 * HML Prec -15.3 - 4 * HML Fury - 42.1 - 11 * HAM T1 - 26.6 - 13 * HAM Javelin - 30.7 - 15 * HAM Rage - 40.9 - 20
stoicfaux 2693	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:28:00 - [2] - Quote Here's a PDF comparison with the current CNR versus the CNR + Cruise Buff versus the new Odyssey CNR versus the Golem: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_CLlTV8bSxNMEdQc1RySWZ4Njg/edit?usp=sharing Spreadsheet changes: I've reorganized the comparison page to be easier to print as a PDF with a 2x3 format. Click File -> Export as PDF, then choose selection or the current page. Click the link the OP for the spreadsheet.
CanI haveyourstuff Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 15:49:00 - [3] - Quote Could you please add crusie golem stats also? current vs odyssey
Jake Warbird Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2571	Posted - 2013.05.14 17:20:00 - [4] - Quote Thanks again for the numbers stoic. I still have your spreadsheet saved up since I first joined Eve.
CanI haveyourstuff Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 18:25:00 - [5] - Quote Thank you, I see there golem siege. I was wondering golem cruises on odyssey... lazy ass l4 ship, cba to run around with max 30km-ish sieges. or teach me how can I do it myself.. I have no idea about odyssey cruise buff other than it should be better.....
hellcane Never Back Down 49	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:26:00 - [6] - Quote The problem with cruise golem is defenders. Losing 1/4 of your DPS every volley = bad
CanI haveyourstuff Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:32:00 - [7] - Quote hellcane wrote: The problem with cruise golem is defenders. Losing 1/4 of your DPS every volley = bad well.. I have been using t2 crusie golem for months and I havent seen any defender flying out ever... okay okay, maybe couple of times. I just did damsel in distress on SISI with golem cruise buff and every volley hit for max dmg every time. Now we are talking about CNR crusie here.. which will have 8 launchers, there _WILL_ be 1 defender almost always picking one cruise off always
Deerin Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 144	Posted - 2013.05.14 20:02:00 - [8] - Quote Very nice. Thank you. I would like to point out that the new cnr has +1med. It might make sense to calculate with 2 tps. -¦s it also possible to see effect of 1 tp rig + 2 rigor rig vs 2 t2 rigor
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 114	Posted - 2013.05.15 11:06:00 - [9] - Quote CanI haveyourstuff wrote: Thank you, I see there golem siege. I was wondering golem cruises on odyssey... lazy ass l4 ship, cba to run around with max 30km-ish sieges. Unless they nerfed something the last time I checked the Golem had over 60 KM torpedo range? Are you trying to use T1 launchers?
CanI haveyourstuff Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.05.15 12:33:00 - [10] - Quote IIshira wrote: CanI haveyourstuff wrote: Thank you, I see there golem siege. I was wondering golem cruises on odyssey... lazy ass l4 ship, cba to run around with max 30km-ish sieges. Unless they nerfed something the last time I checked the Golem had over 60 KM torpedo range? Are you trying to use T1 launchers? 60 javelins? why would anyone want to use 60km javs with ******** expl radius because of misle speed flight time rigs over odyssey 170km ish 1000 dps cruises with 2x rigor II -s ?

Heinrich Hoss Volition Cult The Volition Cult 5	Posted - 2013.05.15 12:40:00 - [11] - Quote Terrific, thank you :)
stoicfaux 2707	Posted - 2013.05.17 17:17:00 - [12] - Quote 1.0 Update! I've added PDFs comparing the various Odyssey missile ship changes. The word for the day is Homogenization. Added the following PRE-GENERATED PDF REPORTS for your convenience! (You can see the results without messing with the spreadsheet.) * cnr_flare_v_rigor_odyssey.pdf * cnr_rigs_odyssey.pdf * cnr_v_fleet_typhoon_odyssey.pdf * cnr_v_typhoon_v_raven_v_fleet_typhoon_v_sni_v_golem_odyssey.pdf * cruise_cnr_v_torp_golem.pdf * raven_v_cnr_odyssey.pdf * tengu_ham_v_hml.pdf Enjoy!
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3568	Posted - 2013.05.17 17:29:00 - [13] - Quote Do these reports include drones? -Liang Ed: Also, Cruise Golem? Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
stoicfaux 2707	Posted - 2013.05.17 17:43:00 - [14] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Do these reports include drones? -Liang Ed: Also, Cruise Golem? The reports do not include drones. Spider Drones are available in the spreadsheet. Player drones would need to be added to the ship sheet. Yes, the pdf reports have Cruise Golem numbers.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3568	Posted - 2013.05.17 17:49:00 - [15] - Quote Are you only comparing DPS with Fury or am I missing pages to the reports? -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
stoicfaux 2707	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:08:00 - [16] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Are you only comparing DPS with Fury or am I missing pages to the reports? -Liang Just fury for now. Given how effective fury will be after the 25% damage boost, I'm not sure T1 will be worth the time to load anymore. Plus I ran out of steam. I'll add T1 and Precision data when I get the time/patience.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3569	Posted - 2013.05.17 18:18:00 - [17] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Just fury for now. Given how effective fury will be after the 25% damage boost, I'm not sure T1 will be worth the time to load anymore. Plus I ran out of steam. I'll add T1 and Precision data when I get the time/patience. Using Furies to shoot a cruiser results in almost a 40-50% DPS penalty... that seems really steep still. Also, I said I'd bring this up here: Liang Nuren wrote: ... However, your methodology is just flat wrong because you are ignoring damage application implants. You can say that they affect everyone equally (and be right!), but the problem is exactly illustrated here: The 3 Rigor CNR is just as effective with 1 TP as with 2 TP. That's exactly the same kind of effect that damage application implants have. I also think it's kinda weird to assume only one painter considering we all fit painters already and we're getting an extra mid slot. ... -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
stoicfaux 2708	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:30:00 - [18] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: stoicfaux wrote: Just fury for now. Given how effective fury will be after the 25% damage boost, I'm not sure T1 will be worth the time to load anymore. Plus I ran out of steam. I'll add T1 and Precision data when I get the time/patience. Using Furies to shoot a cruiser results in almost a 40-50% DPS penalty... that seems really steep still. Also, I said I'd bring this up here: Liang Nuren wrote: ... However, your methodology is just flat wrong because you are ignoring damage application implants. You can say that they affect everyone equally (and be right!), but the problem is exactly illustrated here: The 3 Rigor CNR is just as effective with 1 TP as with 2 TP. That's exactly the same kind of effect that damage application implants have. I also think it's kinda weird to assume only one painter considering we all fit painters already and we're getting an extra mid slot. ... -Liang I've updated the new copy of the spreadsheet that includes implants. There's a "test_implants.pdf" as a preview. I have NOT (yet) re-run the PDFs with the implant info.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 743	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:42:00 - [19] - Quote CCP??? Sticky please removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3572	Posted - 2013.05.17 19:57:00 - [20] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: I've updated the new copy of the spreadsheet that includes implants. There's a "test_implants.pdf" as a preview. I have NOT (yet) re-run the PDFs with the implant info. I've probably never seen the effect of implants so clearly outlined. Dayum. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren

stoicfaux 2710	Posted - 2013.05.18 02:07:00 - [21] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: CCP??? Sticky please IS it just me or the Tengu pdf still shows CNR one? -maybe an upload issue? I've uploaded new PDFs. Try now.
CanI haveyourstuff Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.05.18 05:57:00 - [22] - Quote Interesting... basically cruise golem = cruise cnr = cruise typhoon = ham tengu = cruise sni since golem tractor range is bad and it's still more useful to go back with noctis I'd say that golem either need some kind of buff or it doesnt explain costing 900+ mil isk and training time. maybe 100km tractor and +1 high slot for another salvager, maybe 100% afterburner speed bonus and increased agility? well atm they seem pointless and it's still more profitable to blitz with ridiculous 600+ omnitank pimp tengu
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3580	Posted - 2013.05.18 07:40:00 - [23] - Quote CanI haveyourstuff wrote: Interesting... basically cruise golem = cruise cnr = cruise typhoon = ham tengu = cruise sni since golem tractor range is bad and it's still more useful to go back with noctis I'd say that golem either need some kind of buff or it doesnt explain costing 900+ mil isk and training time. maybe 100km tractor and +1 high slot for another salvager, maybe 100% afterburner speed bonus and increased agility? well atm they seem pointless and it's still more profitable to blitz with ridiculous 600+ omnitank pimp tengu From what I can see, the Golem actually has a pretty substantial damage increase over the CNR. There's more than one fairly common rat which should be killed in a volley less than the CNR. I think the most important thing to take home is that the ROF bonus lets the SNI be surprisingly powerful for having the same real DPS. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 744	Posted - 2013.05.18 19:45:00 - [24] - Quote CanI haveyourstuff wrote: Interesting... basically cruise golem = cruise cnr = cruise typhoon = ham tengu = cruise sni since golem tractor range is bad and it's still more useful to go back with noctis I'd say that golem either need some kind of buff or it doesnt explain costing 900+ mil isk and training time. maybe 100km tractor and +1 high slot for another salvager, maybe 100% afterburner speed bonus and increased agility? well atm they seem pointless and it's still more profitable to blitz with ridiculous 600+ omnitank pimp tengu Well I have a quite different opinion about Marauders. Those are supposed to be THE tough Battleships delivering huge amounts of dps and tank like beasts, but they aren't. So what I'd like to see as improvement: +1 hard point = +/- 20% dps +better distribution of resists and an active rep bonus or the possibility to plug Marauders specific T2 subsystem on top of the 2 riggs -attack subsystem: increasing range (all weapons), decreasing repairers capacitor and global EHP, increasing targeting range and decreasing targeting time, increasing agillity but decrasing top speed, increase drones command range by 20% per level -combat subsystem: increase tracking or decrease explosion radius 7.5%/lvl, increase top speed but decrease agility, increase rep amount and incoming rep amount and global EHP, increase number of drones out by 3 at lvl5 -rip off the salvager bonus and give them an Energy Vampire bonus: decrease cycle increase amount and range by 5%/lvl Now those would be interesting for something else than save the Damsel in distress. removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3582	Posted - 2013.05.19 09:48:00 - [25] - Quote So I've been playing with your spreadsheet a bit. Here's a few comments: - Most of the profiles are useless. I removed them from mine. - You should swap the order of Damage Per Missile and Launcher Duration. It makes data input harder the way you have it. - I think it makes more sense to have a format of "CNR -- BLA2, 2xFlare1 -- Fury" instead of what you have now. - The implants thing is much better. I'll get some interesting data on what I'm seeing up shortly, but I'm quite surprised by what I'm seeing. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 270	Posted - 2013.05.19 21:35:00 - [26] - Quote I realise the thread is a missile damage one, but is it practical to add drones in? Here's a fit I was toying around with, I ask because the drones really haul the DPS right up and will make a substansive difference (and the thing can still fit an omni AND a painter) [Phoon Fleet Oddessy, ML - test] 6x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Inferno Fury Cruise Missile) Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster 2x Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 4x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 3x Drone Damage Amplifier II 3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I 5x Garde II [depending on ranges involved the various sentries will add some 400-500dps, the gardes are currently 39+12 with this fit - its pretty decent] Its blinged, the trade off is without it, you lose a DDA and take a co-processor on - its actually not that big a drop, but I was shooting for bit numbers to test it. iirc I think this sits in the 1700 range with all Vs (and my implants, which I forgot to remove )
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 208	Posted - 2013.05.19 21:37:00 - [27] - Quote y u bling but go cheap on rigs?
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 270	Posted - 2013.05.19 21:38:00 - [28] - Quote Wasnt a "need", as I say the bling is for the fitting. It can be altered, of course, but there wasn't a need. Just pretend there are two 'I' on the end
stoicfaux 2718	Posted - 2013.05.20 02:53:00 - [29] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Basically it occurred to me that the missile boats in odessy are so close, what happens if you can get the drones into the equation and certainly with the phoon, they /really/ get the numbers up and can squeeze an omni in there for range and application. Cost aside, I think it looks a bit monstrous - can the other hulls compete? I was looking at something similar earlier today in the EFT DPS chart. The 1500 DPS Typhoon FI trumps the CNR against battleships up to 40(?)km, but against everything smaller or further away it tends to get out performed by the CNR (cruise + 3 sentries.) Since TPs boost sentries, missiles and guns and since TPs provide a bigger boost than Rigor rigs, I also tried a 4 TP version with shield resists in the rig slots which didn't perform as well. Anyway, without doing some field testing, i.e. I'm relying on the applied damage from the EFT DPS chart, I would hazard to say that the CNR would perform better as a mission runner than the TFI. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Co-Processor II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Garde II x5 Garde II x1 Hobgoblin II x10
stoicfaux 2718	Posted - 2013.05.20 03:02:00 - [30] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: So I've been playing with your spreadsheet a bit. Here's a few comments: - Most of the profiles are useless. I removed them from mine. - You should swap the order of Damage Per Missile and Launcher Duration. It makes data input harder the way you have it. - I think it makes more sense to have a format of "CNR -- BLA2, 2xFlare1 -- Fury" instead of what you have now. - The implants thing is much better. You can swap the columns, then update the AD7 and AE7 (and AD27, AE27) formulas by swapping the ",6," and ",7," values. However, do NOT copy formulas from the upper row to the bottom row. (There are anchored cells in the formulas.) The spreadsheet is meant to be manipulated, so knock yourself out. If it helps with keeping the number of profiles down, it looks like the optimal rig choice is 2xRigors and a Flare for all the missile battleships. Quote: I'll get some interesting data on what I'm seeing up shortly, but I'm quite surprised by what I'm seeing. Looking forward to it.



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