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Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
My Noctis was in a warp to a gate when I lost my internet conection.
When I logged back in again, I found my ship destoyed. The kill log said it was a Customs ship that did it. From what I can presume, when arriving at the gate, Customs found some illegal drugs I had forgot to jettison from the loot of a mission. But why the ship was destoyed is a mystery to me. Could it be that the ship auto warped out due to the loss of conection and Customs saw that as an act of aggression? Beeing stoped at the gate happened to me before and it was just a case of a small fine.
I filed a petition for reimbursement describing the event along with the kill log, and made a bug report to help fix this, because in my humble opinion, this was not a resolt of my actions, but a tiny fault of game mecanics, under rare circumstances. And its not in line with the, safety of your ship if you are away from battle and you happen to have a sudden internet problem, policy.
The petition, was kindly refused and the loss was not reimbursed.
Although I understand that I can not prove that this was not due to some other kind of action in my part, the resolt is a bit of frustration, along with some loss of intrest for devoting time in EVE, in fear that something like this can happen again, on a greater scale.
I am confident that people working on those sort of issues are intrested on making sure they find and solve those problems when they occur, that is why I am posting the event, along with my bug report.
Thank you for taking the time to read. |

Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
372
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Drugs are bad, mmkay?
--but more importantly, I tend to find it generally safer to just not pick up the drugs while doing missions. While customs officials aren't often around, the goods aren't particularly high value and so you're not losing much for the sake of safety from CONCORDOKKEN. |

scimichar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
You were moving something illegal and got caught by Customs. What's the problem? The game doesn't stop just because you lost connection. |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
scimichar wrote:You were moving something illegal and got caught by Customs. What's the problem? The game doesn't stop just because you lost connection.
I was under the impression that you dont loose your ship if by mistake you carry something illegal. That its just a matter of a small fine. Please correct me if I am wrong. |

Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
412
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
They are supposed to fine you and take the illegal goods. They will shoot if you refuse to surrender said goods. |

Jada Maroo
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
1071
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
We need to get rid of customs ships and allow faction warriors to police, scan, and legally destroy ships with contraband. |

Julius Rigel
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:scimichar wrote:You were moving something illegal and got caught by Customs. What's the problem? The game doesn't stop just because you lost connection. I was under the impression that you dont loose your ship if by mistake you carry something illegal. That its just a matter of a small fine. Please correct me if I am wrong. You're wrong. If you don't pay the fine, they open up your cargohold with their turrets and take the offending materials from your possession by force. Since you were offline, it seems you didn't pay the fine, and thus they destroyed your ship. Do YOU like to undock? |

Romvex
462
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:We need to get rid of customs ships and allow faction warriors to police, scan, and legally destroy ships with contraband. faction warrior gives 1 day old noob drugs, saying they're like the best weapon in game, noob takes drugs, faction warrior alphas noob.
(a¦á_a¦á) ~ Post With Your Main-á ~ (a¦á_a¦á) |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:They are supposed to fine you and take the illegal goods. They will shoot if you refuse to surrender said goods.
Thank you. That is why I support that it was not pilot's error but a glitch in game's mechanics. I was not there to pay the tiny fine. |

Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
565
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd still rather 'take my chances' against PC custom officials than the NPC ones.
|

Lord Amaterasu
Carebears online
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Romvex wrote:Jada Maroo wrote:We need to get rid of customs ships and allow faction warriors to police, scan, and legally destroy ships with contraband. faction warrior gives 1 day old noob drugs, saying they're like the best weapon in game, noob takes drugs, faction warrior alphas noob. Is that a problem? The Mittani...not the hero Eve deserves, but the one we need. -Prisoner 002929 |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Julius Rigel wrote:Loko Fouskous wrote:scimichar wrote:You were moving something illegal and got caught by Customs. What's the problem? The game doesn't stop just because you lost connection. I was under the impression that you dont loose your ship if by mistake you carry something illegal. That its just a matter of a small fine. Please correct me if I am wrong. You're wrong. If you don't pay the fine, they open up your cargohold with their turrets and take the offending materials from your possession by force. Since you were offline, it seems you didn't pay the fine, and thus they destroyed your ship.
Yes, it has happened to me before, that is the known procedure. That was my understanding too. |

The Cake
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
No activity in eve is completely safe, even station trading isn't quite 100% safe. It will eventually happen again on a much larger scale. Just get your income up and eventually it won't matter as much.
Gotta roll with the punches and learn not to get hit. |

Tasha Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 00:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:They are supposed to fine you and take the illegal goods. They will shoot if you refuse to surrender said goods. Thank you. That is why I support that it was not pilot's error but a glitch in game's mechanics. I was not there to pay the tiny fine.
not a glitch. it worked correctly
|

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Cake wrote:No activity in eve is completely safe, even station trading isn't quite 100% safe. It will eventually happen again on a much larger scale. Just get your income up and eventually it won't matter as much.
Gotta roll with the punches and learn not to get hit.
Thank you for your kind words. EVE's cruelty is entertaining. A little bug that's not recognized is much more scary. |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tasha Saisima wrote:Loko Fouskous wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:They are supposed to fine you and take the illegal goods. They will shoot if you refuse to surrender said goods. Thank you. That is why I support that it was not pilot's error but a glitch in game's mechanics. I was not there to pay the tiny fine. not a glitch. it worked correctly
You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2428
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Okay, I'm a little confused.
If you lose connection, you emergency warp to a safe-spot and the log out timer starts.
It's been my experience that customs only dings you when you gate jump, so how did this guy get blown up?
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Okay, I'm a little confused. If you lose connection, you emergency warp to a safe-spot and the log out timer starts. It's been my experience that customs only dings you when you gate jump, so how did this guy get blown up? Mr Epeen 
I was on the warp, to the gate, the moment I lost connection. What exactly happened, friends in posts above have speculated about. |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3289
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better.
What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended.
If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs. 10: Warp to gate 20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30 30: GOTO 10 40: Logoffski 50: Log on, GOTO 10 This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3289
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Okay, I'm a little confused. If you lose connection, you emergency warp to a safe-spot and the log out timer starts. It's been my experience that customs only dings you when you gate jump, so how did this guy get blown up? Mr Epeen 
If you log midwarp, you finish your warp then initiate E-warp. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 01:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Loko Fouskous wrote:You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better. What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended. If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs. 10: Warp to gate 20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30 30: GOTO 10 40: Logoffski 50: Log on, GOTO 10
I agree with your arguments, with a few points. I did not log off. I lost connection. I was not trying to evade anything, I did not even know I was carrying illegal things. I am saying that developers did not expect an instance were you lose your ship this way. The system is trying to avoid getting you killed if you are not in combat and get disconnected.
|

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4102
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 02:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Loko Fouskous wrote:You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better. What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended. If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs. 10: Warp to gate 20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30 30: GOTO 10 40: Logoffski 50: Log on, GOTO 10 I agree with your arguments, with a few points. I did not log off. I lost connection. I was not trying to evade anything, I did not even know I was carrying illegal things. I am saying that developers did not expect an instance were you lose your ship this way. The system is trying to avoid getting you killed if you are not in combat and get disconnected. That is incorrect. The system is working as intended.
Furthermore since you cannot distinguish between a voluntary log off and a disconnection a harsh penalty is required to prevent willful abuse.
You made mistakes prior to the alleged "disconnection". Had you not made those mistakes you would have been fine. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 02:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
[/quote] That is incorrect. The system is working as intended.
Furthermore since you cannot distinguish between a voluntary log off and a disconnection a harsh penalty is required to prevent willful abuse.
You made mistakes prior to the alleged "disconnection". Had you not made those mistakes you would have been fine.[/quote]
Allow me to disagree. Online games are made to be played with you present making the decisions. The designed consequence of my mistake was a fine of 20.000. The result of not being there to pay it due to my disconnection and, please dont call it alleged, was a loss of 100 mil. As far as I can find information about it, the ship is destroyed when you attack customs or when you try to escape. The ship e-warped away on its own. The design was to save it, not get it killed. It worked as intended with a result that was not intended.
Again reading a lot about the mechanics, and ruIes, I insist that this case was not expected to happen or predicted. But ofcource you have to take my word for it, as the kill log does not proove that I did not open fire or try to escape in a way.
I would be happy to hear the thoughts of a developer on this, if any.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13974
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:The designed consequence of my mistake was a fine of 20.000. GǪor the loss of your ship, should you try to evade that fine. Unwillingly or not, you tried to evade it, and with no-one at the wheel, the result was predictable.
Quote:Again reading a lot about the mechanics, and ruIes, I insist that this case was not expected to happen or predicted. But ofcource you have to take my word for it, as the kill log does not proove that I did not open fire or try to escape in a way. Your ship tried to ewarp away, so whether you wanted to or not, it falls squarely in the realm of the GÇ£try to escapeGÇ¥ clause. Mechanics-wise, the game doesn't particularly care if a disconnection was voluntary or not (nor should it, since the abuse factor would be enormous) so it was treated as a logoffski-based attempt at evading justice. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |

Longestnameyouveeverread inyourlifeha
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Loko Fouskous wrote:You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better. What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended. If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs. 10: Warp to gate 20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30 30: GOTO 10 40: Logoffski 50: Log on, GOTO 10
I have refined your algorithm:
10: Warp to gate 20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40 30: GOTO 10 40: Logoffski 50: Log on, GOTO 10 |

Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:My Noctis was in a warp to a gate when I lost my internet conection.
When I logged back in again, I found my ship destoyed. The kill log said it was a Customs ship that did it. From what I can presume, when arriving at the gate, Customs found some illegal drugs I had forgot to jettison from the loot of a mission. But why the ship was destoyed is a mystery to me. Could it be that the ship auto warped out due to the loss of conection and Customs saw that as an act of aggression? Beeing stoped at the gate happened to me before and it was just a case of a small fine.
I filed a petition for reimbursement describing the event along with the kill log, and made a bug report to help fix this, because in my humble opinion, this was not a resolt of my actions, but a tiny fault of game mecanics, under rare circumstances. And its not in line with the, safety of your ship if you are away from battle and you happen to have a sudden internet problem, policy.
The petition, was kindly refused and the loss was not reimbursed.
Although I understand that I can not prove that this was not due to some other kind of action in my part, the resolt is a bit of frustration, along with some loss of intrest for devoting time in EVE, in fear that something like this can happen again, on a greater scale.
I am confident that people working on those sort of issues are intrested on making sure they find and solve those problems when they occur, that is why I am posting the event, along with my bug report.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
Blue Pill: never even once. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
[/quote]Your ship tried to ewarp away, so whether you wanted to or not, it falls squarely in the realm of the GÇ£try to escapeGÇ¥ clause. Mechanics-wise, the game doesn't particularly care if a disconnection was voluntary or not (nor should it, since the abuse factor would be enormous) so it was treated as a logoffski-based attempt at evading justice.[/quote]
I see... Thank for your approach and the reasoning you are giving it. I understand the need to find a working system that is abuse safe. And in an effort to be efficient it can become unjust. |

Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
or just don't carry drugs in Empire
or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose
or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |

Loko Fouskous
Parental Control Academy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:or just don't carry drugs in Empire
or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose
or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing.
There is no need to be rude. I'm here asking people their opinion and explanation of game mechanics. I am still learning to play, and still have a lot to learn. That's why I picked up things that caused all this.
If you validate my existence and want me to keep playing, help me understand, like so many kind people already have. |

Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Loko Fouskous wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:or just don't carry drugs in Empire
or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose
or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing. There is no need to be rude. I'm here asking people their opinion and explanation of game mechanics. I am still learning to play, and still have a lot to learn. That's why I picked up things that caused all this. If you validate my existence and want me to keep playing, help me understand, like so many kind people already have.
I'm not being rude..... if you don't have thick enough skin to realize that (I mean, especially when it's me.... I'm almost never serious, and over 60% of the playerbase knows this, by now), and joke back, you're either too new to get it, or you are too stubborn to ever get it, in which case,you should prolly download Aion, and biomass your toon, right now. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
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