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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: 900,000 lp in a month at tier 2 is allot of plexing. I am surprised you never made it to the top of the daily or weekly vp list.
3 novice plexes per day waiting for fights. Carry on.
Thats 15 hours of plexing a month.
As for his killboard I am seeing allot of kills in gallente space. So it seems either his pvp and plexing time are seperate or he has to spend allot more time in plexes because defensive plexes don't pay that well. Or Crosi was just full of it when he said his lp earnings for last month. But I personally think he may be telling the truth. He is not allucard.
Carry on. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1371
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:29:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: 900,000 lp in a month at tier 2 is allot of plexing. I am surprised you never made it to the top of the daily or weekly vp list.
3 novice plexes per day waiting for fights. Carry on. Thats 15 hours of plexing a month. What's your point? He was paid to pvp. Eve Nirvana! (OK, not pvp but to gank noobs with his loki boosted Maulus - whatever. Sandbox and all that )
Reference:
Crosi wrote:Also, the little plexing and pvp i have done over the last month has yielded 900,000 LP. I wasnt even trying. Thats 1.5 bn isk. Wont quite pay for my lost snake set but will easily keep people in ships. Working as intended. Working pretty well too. |

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:32:00 -
[63] - Quote
cearain wrote: So you just keep singing the praises of this imbalanced and stagnant system
the thing about this comment is our warzone is balanced the caldari can step upto same tier as us wenever they want. The reason why the other warzone is imbalanced is that when amarrs do cashout they dont defend cos why do they need to there counting there isk then when the situation gets worse instead of trying to do something about it they just fire up there minnie alts and dogpile the situation then cry the systems broke GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: 900,000 lp in a month at tier 2 is allot of plexing. I am surprised you never made it to the top of the daily or weekly vp list.
3 novice plexes per day waiting for fights. Carry on. Thats 15 hours of plexing a month. What's your point? He was paid to pvp. Eve Nirvana! (OK, not pvp but to gank noobs with his loki boosted Maulus - whatever. Sandbox and all that  )
You missed the part about his kills being mostly in gallente systems so it woudl takes more than 15 hours of novice plexes.
You crosi and I all know, that if you want pvp you don't sit around waiting for plexes to close. Just like you don't really stay to mine the astroids if you win a fight in the top belt of a system. If he did then he would likely be the top vp gainer for a day or a week.
I am not saying someone who was unemployed and had all day to play this game couldn't do it. But typically we see that if you want to really win sov for your militia your killboard that day will look like the killboards of people who win the most daily vp. When you look at those killboards you might see a few kills in a few minutes or hours of time from before or after they started plexing but thats about it. If your goal is to win sov then your best approach is to just avoid pvp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
First, under the "cash out" system, there was no side that was winning. There was just the side that most recently had their dump. The fact you call it the "cash out" system shows everything that was wrong with that system. The true reason why you see no one caring about tiers in the current system is because it truly only benefits the farmer. Yet the farmer won't part with his lp to upgrade a system.
If CCP wants people to care about tiers than it needs to give bonuses that pvpers care about. Maybe boosts to the owning militia. It should be harder to fight someone on their home turf. |

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
ill tell you were i am on the tier system i think this is the fairest one but ive hated both,(they should be scrapped imo) its made people greedy cunts it should just be one rate for all side. lp for plexing is nice but really it shouldnbt be peoples main source of income missions should be but with gallentes rat imbalance we cant do them in a stealth bomber like all other races ............
Also i wouldnt call them ganks in a maulus those people are willing to fight it thinking ahh fk it its a maulus ill hammer it. It also does fk all dps and slowly chips away at people, its alot of manual piloting and alot of adjusting not like most frig fights which is burn in overheat everything and pray GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: So you just keep singing the praises of this imbalanced and stagnant system the thing about this comment is our warzone is balanced the caldari can step upto same tier as us wenever they want. The reason why the other warzone is imbalanced is that when amarrs do cashout they dont defend cos why do they need to there counting there isk then when the situation gets worse instead of trying to do something about it they just fire up there minnie alts and dogpile the situation then cry the systems broke
Why should they care about who is winning a silly pve game?
But interestingly enough after the lp market bottomed out the amarr would be just as well simply stay in their pvp mains and not switch over to minmatar - if we still had a cashout system. When fw lp was still valued very high during inferno this was not the case. Because during the first 5 months of these changes lp conversion at tier 5 "now" was worth much more than lp at tier 5 "later."
But after the market stabilized amarr would realize that they might as well start running plexes in their pvp mains. The system just did not have time to settle in. And now it just makes more sense to earn your isk from the alt that brings in the most isk per hour. Running fw missions for minmatar at tier 4 pays allot better than sitting in your main running plexes at tier 1. So really why bother with all this plexing pve business at all? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1371
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
I'm sorry I can't hear you over all the LP and fights I get every month...
playing FW as it's intended to be played. |

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 22:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Amarr couldnt get there tiers during inferno and now with retribution alot of them were even vocal about having the minnie alts doing the work for them all those ontop of a very strong minmatar at the time just made there whole situation worse ,its a practice they havnt stopped and still do to this day.
During inferno most people had an alt in all 4 militias and just plexed with witchever one looked like getting the next high cashout.
You are bittered to the amarr way of things as ive suggested try other militias hear other storys and see the game in different ways GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:03:00 -
[70] - Quote
Shahai Shintaro wrote:First, under the "cash out" system, there was no side that was winning. There was just the side that most recently had their dump. The fact you call it the "cash out" system shows everything that was wrong with that system. .
Some people expressed that view I disagree. I think working toward a tier 5 cashout was a very good medium term goal for faction war militias. It got a bad rap from allot of short sighted players. But it provided balance, consequences, strategy and excitement all in one.
Shahai Shintaro wrote:The true reason why you see no one caring about tiers in the current system is because it truly only benefits the farmer. Yet the farmer won't part with his lp to upgrade a system.
If CCP wants people to care about tiers than it needs to give bonuses that pvpers care about. Maybe boosts to the owning militia. It should be harder to fight someone on their home turf.
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system.
They wasnt stratigically planning it from a war perspective, it was a just to get paid perspective it meant something to wallets not to fights. this was evident in how many alliances and corps dropped fw like bricks at the changes and then some creeped back in when they realised it could still be farmed.
Also the minnie strategy was mainly farm it till everyone had a fk ton of lp then flip or dump it was commen knowledge minnies dumped on a sunday every two weeks to try and maximise people being online so everyone gets to cash out so dint take much talking and working on a plan
I dont get in some posts you say you hate rabbit but in others you stick up for a system that was definatly more farmer friendly GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
932
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system.
They wasnt stratigically planning it from a war perspective, it was a just to get paid perspective it meant something to wallets not to fights. this was evident in how many alliances and corps dropped fw like bricks at the changes and then some creeped back in when they realised it could still be farmed. Also there was no strategy it was mainly farm it till everyone had a fk ton of lp then flip or dump it was commen knowledge minnies dumped on a sunday every two weeks to try and maximise people being online so everyone gets to cash out I dont get in some posts you say you hate rabbit but in others you stick up for a system that was definatly more farmer friendly
There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers.
Neither the general cashout nor the current lp pay out system is really more or less farmer friendly. The changes that made the current situation less farmer friendly were:
1) requiring rats to be killed 2) generally reducing the pay outs and 3) the lp market crashed.
Both 1 and 2 could have been done with the cashout system. Like I said they should have reduced tier 5 to be a 50-60% reduction instead of the 75% reduction.
3, the lp crash, was gonna happen anyway. Even if they started with this payout system the lp would crash. Market forces will bring the value of lp in line with its difficulty to obtain. If they gave 10xs as much lp in the current system the lp market would crash even further, capped at the cost of the other required items.
Its not the cashout pay out method per se that caused the market to crash. It was the crazy high rewards given. But after the lp market hits a baseline the cashout system would have worked much better than the current system. They changed it before it hit that baseline. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:34:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system.
They wasnt stratigically planning it from a war perspective, it was a just to get paid perspective it meant something to wallets not to fights. this was evident in how many alliances and corps dropped fw like bricks at the changes and then some creeped back in when they realised it could still be farmed. Also there was no strategy it was mainly farm it till everyone had a fk ton of lp then flip or dump it was commen knowledge minnies dumped on a sunday every two weeks to try and maximise people being online so everyone gets to cash out I dont get in some posts you say you hate rabbit but in others you stick up for a system that was definatly more farmer friendly There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. Neither the general cashout nor the current lp pay out system is really more or less farmer friendly. The changes that made the current situation less farmer friendly were: 1) requiring rats to be killed 2) generally reducing the pay outs and 3) the lp market crashed. Both 1 and 2 could have been done with the cashout system. Like I said they should have reduced tier 5 to be a 50-60% reduction instead of the 75% reduction. 3, the lp crash, was gonna happen anyway. Even if they started with this payout system the lp would crash. Market forces will bring the value of lp in line with its difficulty to obtain. If they gave 10xs as much lp in the current system the lp market would crash even further, capped at the cost of the other required items. Its not the cashout pay out method per se that caused the market to crash. It was the crazy high rewards given. But after the lp market hits a baseline the cashout system would have worked much better than the current system. They changed it before it hit that baseline.
It shouldnt have any reduction why should the fw lp store ride rough shod over every other lp store in the game if the other stores require more grind using level 5s as an example that have to be run in a carrier or a dps ship and logi? GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
932
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system.
They wasnt stratigically planning it from a war perspective, it was a just to get paid perspective it meant something to wallets not to fights. this was evident in how many alliances and corps dropped fw like bricks at the changes and then some creeped back in when they realised it could still be farmed. Also there was no strategy it was mainly farm it till everyone had a fk ton of lp then flip or dump it was commen knowledge minnies dumped on a sunday every two weeks to try and maximise people being online so everyone gets to cash out I dont get in some posts you say you hate rabbit but in others you stick up for a system that was definatly more farmer friendly There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. Neither the general cashout nor the current lp pay out system is really more or less farmer friendly. The changes that made the current situation less farmer friendly were: 1) requiring rats to be killed 2) generally reducing the pay outs and 3) the lp market crashed. Both 1 and 2 could have been done with the cashout system. Like I said they should have reduced tier 5 to be a 50-60% reduction instead of the 75% reduction. 3, the lp crash, was gonna happen anyway. Even if they started with this payout system the lp would crash. Market forces will bring the value of lp in line with its difficulty to obtain. If they gave 10xs as much lp in the current system the lp market would crash even further, capped at the cost of the other required items. Its not the cashout pay out method per se that caused the market to crash. It was the crazy high rewards given. But after the lp market hits a baseline the cashout system would have worked much better than the current system. They changed it before it hit that baseline. It shouldnt have any reduction why should the fw lp store ride rough shod over every other lp store in the game if the other stores require more grind using level 5s as an example that have to be run in a carrier or a dps ship and logi?
The current system also runs rough shod over every other lp store by giving multiple times as much lp. Cutting the lp price in half or giving 2xs as much lp for the same activity has the same effect. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1376
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:37:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time?
I'm having a hard time believing a guy like you who "believes that FW sov should be a pvp mechanic" and who thinks "15 hours per month is a long time" would bother with spending 2-3 days flipping massive numbers of IHUBS to get to Tier V. I suspect that you let Nulli Secunda to all the hard work for you.
The rest of us who actually put in the time flipping these IHUBS (and I didn't spend nearly as much time at it as some of our guys), laugh at you for being a proponent of one of the most soul-sucking torture activities ever implemented by CCP. |

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
With the cashout system, there were no pvp benefits yet everyone was talking about it and strategizing how to achieve them. It was just a more exciting system. Uttering "meh" is about all that can be said about the new forever grind system.
They wasnt stratigically planning it from a war perspective, it was a just to get paid perspective it meant something to wallets not to fights. this was evident in how many alliances and corps dropped fw like bricks at the changes and then some creeped back in when they realised it could still be farmed. Also there was no strategy it was mainly farm it till everyone had a fk ton of lp then flip or dump it was commen knowledge minnies dumped on a sunday every two weeks to try and maximise people being online so everyone gets to cash out I dont get in some posts you say you hate rabbit but in others you stick up for a system that was definatly more farmer friendly There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. Neither the general cashout nor the current lp pay out system is really more or less farmer friendly. The changes that made the current situation less farmer friendly were: 1) requiring rats to be killed 2) generally reducing the pay outs and 3) the lp market crashed. Both 1 and 2 could have been done with the cashout system. Like I said they should have reduced tier 5 to be a 50-60% reduction instead of the 75% reduction. 3, the lp crash, was gonna happen anyway. Even if they started with this payout system the lp would crash. Market forces will bring the value of lp in line with its difficulty to obtain. If they gave 10xs as much lp in the current system the lp market would crash even further, capped at the cost of the other required items. Its not the cashout pay out method per se that caused the market to crash. It was the crazy high rewards given. But after the lp market hits a baseline the cashout system would have worked much better than the current system. They changed it before it hit that baseline. It shouldnt have any reduction why should the fw lp store ride rough shod over every other lp store in the game if the other stores require more grind using level 5s as an example that have to be run in a carrier or a dps ship and logi? The current system also runs rough shod over every other lp store by giving multiple times as much lp. Cutting the lp price in half or giving 2xs as much lp for the same activity has the same effect.
But market prices have risen in other warzones and for other races a amarr level 5 runner can earn alot of isk from his lps at the minute. The only prices that i see are bust atm are minmatar from such a prolonged period of higher tiers... inferno and retribution... hell i still have 2m lps from when i was in minmatar space im not even thinking of cashing them till the navy canes to give to corp cos eveything else apart from implants are broke
Also what XG said  GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1196
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 02:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
One: All LP is earned at a second tier level for all militias. Unleash the market for balance.
Two: The tier a militia is at is only determined by the number of systems in the warzone that militia controls. 20.1%? You are tier two. 40.1%? You are tier 3. Etc.
Three: Buy IHub upgrades to better your system. These would be a mixture of military or economic benefits that would be available at different tiers. Station lockout for enemy militia? Tier one upgrade. Reduced clone cost, research slots, or manufacturing boots? Tier one with the choice of upgrading the benefit with each subsequent tier. Other upgrade ideas could include:
Timer rollbacks on abandoned plexes. Defensive plexing LP for that system only. Notifications for Cerain. Activation of mission agents if present in system. More friendly NPC's in plexes or slower plex spawns. (Only available at low tiers) Sentry guns on IHub. Station lockouts for WT. (tier 4 or 5. WT are not the same as enemy militia) Moon or PI production upgrades. Anomaly or rat upgrades.
Add any other upgrades you might think of here. As CCP adds things like Ice anomalies or tags for sec status new upgrades could be introduced as well.
Four: The upgrades can be destroyed only by system conquest or directly by the opposing militia. Tired of stealth bomber mission runners? Get a fleet together and go shoot up Dal/Eszur.
Honestly a monkey could have created a better system them the steaming pile of crap we have now. It unfortunately is based upon the process of capturing systems rather then cultivating them after ownership is attained. Good job CCP! |

Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
133
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 07:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:One: All LP is earned at a second tier level for all militias. Unleash the market for balance.
Two: The tier a militia is at is only determined by the number of systems in the warzone that militia controls. 20.1%? You are tier two. 40.1%? You are tier 3. Etc.
Three: Buy IHub upgrades to better your system. These would be a mixture of military or economic benefits that would be available at different tiers. Station lockout for enemy militia? Tier one upgrade. Reduced clone cost, research slots, or manufacturing boots? Tier one with the choice of upgrading the benefit with each subsequent tier. Other upgrade ideas could include:
Timer rollbacks on abandoned plexes. Defensive plexing LP for that system only. Notifications for Cerain. Activation of mission agents if present in system. More friendly NPC's in plexes or slower plex spawns. (Only available at low tiers) Sentry guns on IHub. Station lockouts for WT. (tier 4 or 5. WT are not the same as enemy militia) Moon or PI production upgrades. Anomaly or rat upgrades.
Add any other upgrades you might think of here. As CCP adds things like Ice anomalies or tags for sec status new upgrades could be introduced as well.
Four: The upgrades can be destroyed only by system conquest or directly by the opposing militia. Tired of stealth bomber mission runners? Get a fleet together and go shoot up Dal/Eszur.
Honestly a monkey could have created a better system them the steaming pile of crap we have now. It unfortunately is based upon the process of capturing systems rather then cultivating them after ownership is attained. Good job CCP!
+1 FOR ZARNAK!!!! ZARNAK!! ZARNAK!!! ZARNAK!!!! CCP is a bunch of monkeys :P |

Stalking Mantis
Amarrian Vengeance
261
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 08:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time? I suspect that you let Nulli Secunda to all the hard work for you..
He did.
I have never seen him in a plex, busting a bunker nor in any of the highlevel intel channels doing any 'stratigic planning'. So unless he is using another alt that I don't know of....
And frankly I'm tired of him turning every FW thread into a novel by replying EVERYONE in the thread regardless of wither or not they were talking to him to begin with using 4 paragraph long posts. Nothing kills a thread like Cearain.
|

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
659
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 08:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:...Sentry guns on IHub.. Creating incentive for 'da blob' or Dread drops just to get rid of bombers .. seems a rather high price to pay Remove the iHub system entirely, EHP grinds that are not directly pew related has no place in a face-stab game like Eve. Surely there are tools and/or resources to cook an alternative up that encourages stabbing instead of the opposite .. I see the introduction of reinforcement timers and EHP grinds as what was available at the time and their continuation as a sign of excessive laziness (or fear of players) on Devs part.
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Honestly a monkey could have created a better system them the steaming pile of crap we have now. It unfortunately is based upon the process of capturing systems rather then cultivating them after ownership is attained. Good job CCP! How else could they have done it when the goal was to create a farm without impacting on their beer-time? 
One of the first posts after the FF presentation last year and the concept of system upgrade paths was a plea to make conquered space matter more than the act of conquering it .. no idea why they went the route they did, makes zero sense which is why there must have interests beyond what is known/seen that influenced it. |

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
581
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 10:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time? I suspect that you let Nulli Secunda to all the hard work for you.. He did. I have never seen him in a plex, busting a bunker nor in any of the highlevel intel channels doing any 'stratigic planning'. So unless he is using another alt that I don't know of.... And frankly I'm tired of him turning every FW thread into a novel by replying EVERYONE in the thread regardless of wither or not they were talking to him to begin with using 4 paragraph long posts. Nothing kills a thread like Cearain.
I guess it is important to get the grunts perspective. Those of us who had input on the metagaming, that actually played the metagame, that know nulli brought their tier push forwards because they were losing vulnerable systems, that gallentes metagaming caldari shell corps worked perfectly etc SHOULD have a counter opinion plastered in every thread to show what the happenings in inferno looked like from a completely uninformed and excluded perspective.
Its sometimes too much to ask that someone take the wrong side of nearly all arguments but as a master of insignificance he is there to deliver the wrong answers time and time again. For that i thank you for sacrificing your credibility cretin.
I did see him in a plex once though, that didnt go very well for him. |

ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 11:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
im with you on all points apart from this
cearain wrote: Notifications for Cerain.
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
581
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 12:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
How about defender missiles on hubs instead of sentries to address bomber busting. :p |

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1380
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 13:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:While a bunch of nice ideas.... I'll settle for timer rollbacks and more difficult rats at this point in time. |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
934
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 14:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time? I suspect that you let Nulli Secunda to all the hard work for you.. He did. I have never seen him in a plex, busting a bunker nor in any of the highlevel intel channels doing any 'stratigic planning'. So unless he is using another alt that I don't know of.... And frankly I'm tired of him turning every FW thread into a novel by replying EVERYONE in the thread regardless of wither or not they were talking to him to begin with using 4 paragraph long posts. Nothing kills a thread like Cearain.
Don't hold back, tell me what you really think.
Yes nulli did all the bunker busting. To say you never saw me in a plex well that is pretty ridiculous. Most people who see me see that I am pretty much always in a plex unless I am afk and docked up. Thats true now and when I was in amarr. I tried to push amarr to plex - for amarr - not minmatar. I was telling amarr if they wanted to get rich then just get the minmatar lp through missions instead of plexing.
Weren't you were the one who posted how you were selling things from the amarr lp store at tier 1 and that amarr should not complain. I asked you if you were really spending that much lp for a slicer and you stopped responding.
I gave my 2 cents about plexing strategies and I also was pushing some of my somewhat reluctant corp mates to plex as well. I was never a director of ILAW so I didn't pretend to speak for them, but my corp allowed everyone in the corp to say what they wanted, and I did.
I suggested that amarr stop plexing todifraun to 9999999% contested and instead move on to some other systems so we can get them vulnerable as well. I was out there with my alts trying to get those systems vunerable every night. Yes I was using alts because the ridiculous npcs made it so it was more effective to do this in a gunless frigate than in a combat ship.
I also had heated discussions with some amarr on these very boards and various blogs about doing offensive plexing instead of defensive plexing. A few amarr had the idea in their head that defensive plexing somehow showed more support for amarr than offensive plexing when in fact it just fed the minmatar rabbit horde.
The other issue I had to argue against was that many amarr wanted to flip systems as soon as they could.
Here is an example of my trying to get amarr to use smart tactics just a month after inferno was released:
http://cry-moar.blogspot.com/2012/06/from-minmatar.html
You can be sure that I shared these ideas internally before posting them publicly.
I also posted these ideas in joint amarr strategy forums. Yes these ideas seem overly simple and obvious now. But it took the amarr longer to get up to speed and forces mobilized for numerous reasons.
Slowly but surely the arguments that we should offensive plex and not flip systems until a cashout started to win out. Thats when amarr started to finally make the push to a higher tier cashout. This happened before nulli even joined fw.
So you can try to reinvent history all you want. But its well documented that I was very much pushing amarr to try to do well using the correct tactics.
Why don't you post what you were telling amarr to do a month after inferno hit?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
934
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time?
At what point in time was it smart for amarr to bust ihubs? Really try to think about that one ok.
For a long time amarr would flip a system as soon as it was vulnerable. I was trying to convince amarr to stop busting the ihub as soon as systems were vulnerable and to wait for a cashout.
I beleived we should have pushed to hit tier 5. But nulli had enough faction war so they decided to do the cashout. There was of course nothing I or anyone else in amarr could do about this decision. They started busting the ihubs and the minmifarm came. Its not like we could bring in a supercap fleet to stop them.
So no I did not spend hours personally busting I hubs to feed the mini rabbit horde. There was never a time when it was smart for amarr to bust the ihubs.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Defying
Hateful Munitions Totally Consensual
13
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ahhh,
Everyone is like this faction has to many plexers that faction has to many plexers..........
GUYS THE MASSIVE PLEXING FARMS ARE ALL JUST ALTS!
Several and when I several I mean pretty much all of the major 0.0 blocks, have an alt corp for FW in which they just massively plex. If any of you have alts in these corps you most likely already know because they have sent out corp/alliance mails about it. Most FW peeps all have alts in other factions as well just to make money off the winning/loosing side. Personally this is a problem that all of eve suffers from, its not one side or the other, its alts that ruin the mechanics. When Caldari was winning all the plexers switched sides over to us.... when gal started winning, they switched back to the mimintar!
Now I am not going to go on this "nerf alts" rampage, because thats just beating a dead horse, we all know better and it's not going to happen. The game mechanics need to be balanced in a way that you make more LP through FIGHTING IN PLEXES then just sitting there and hoping no one shows up!
They need to give LP bonuses to fights in plexes, based on ships destroyed or how long the enemy was there before you left... but instead all you get is penalties if you chase an enemy off you have to wait 30+ minutes and in that time the plex farmers just go farm 2-3 more sites while they know you are waiting on that one... or you leave to chase them and they just come back.
SImply put right now, you have to WANT good fights in plexes to get them... You have to go poke a home system for the enemy, and stir up the bee hive in some way and the people who want to come out and fight generally will come out and fight.
Those of us who know how and where to get the good fights, are not missing out on the fights.... Hell I have had more good fights in the past 5 days then the 90 of being in 0.0.
As a result, I have some decent ideas on how to make plexes more "fighty" and less "flighty"
1.) Give bonuses for LP based on the number of pilots in a plex, instead of splitting it add a multiplier bonus to it. This mechanic has worked in many other RvR games, to encourages pilots/players to fly together, instead of selfishly trying to take plexes solo in stabbed cloak ships. Big fleets sitting, draw big fights.
2.) If a fight of any kind goes down in a plex, ADD to the lp that the plex is worth until its taken.. This encourages the losers of a fight to reship, and also again gives interest to even solo plexers, because the risk of staying and fighting now has a higher reward....
3.) Ditch the timmer system and use a bar. It starts in the middle and goes either left or right. The more people in the plex of a specific faction the faster it goes. DO NOT STOP THE BAR IF THERE IS A FIGHT! If no one is in the plex, the bar starts to go back to the neutral middle area.
3.) Ditch the dumb ass tier system, and instead transfer its bonuses to systems that have been captured. Go back to decreasing prices for LP, but put the LP stores in low sec, and base the LP bonuses soloy in the systems that have been taken and upgraded.... base the bonuses of course on the upgrade level of the system. This creates value in systems and gives corps/alliances invested interest in keeping and holding a system. It also will balance the market because things like navy drakes and CNRs will need to be transported in and out of low sec.. making their prices valuable again (aside from the ones coming from high sec) You might have to increase the amount of LP it takes to upgrade systems as a result.
4.) Stop the "Alt Snowballing effect" that happens when one side starts winning, all the plexers or others just join that side because its "easy isk". Something like shorter defensive timers, or more LP from plexes for the sides that are loosing, will cause the alts to "balance" themselves, because it will no longer be as profitable to jump sides as soon as you think the other side has easier offensive plexing, or because they have a higher tier system.
5.) Everyone should be able to make ISK in FW, however FW is kind of like Null "lite" and as a result the mechanics should be based kind of around its "mini sov" system. Corps and alliances that decide they want to take and hold a handful of systems should be rewarded for doing so.
Right now as it stands, the plexers and pvpers have separated mindsets..... PvPers dont want to wait in plexes for 15 minutes in hope of a fight, and plexers don't want to fight. There needs to be work done to bring those two together.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1380
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time? At what point in time was it smart for amarr to bust ihubs? Really try to think about that one ok. The point being that if you actually did go through the whole massive plex busting offensive once (or twice, or maybe a third time like the rest of us) you wouldn't have such fond memories of a ridiculously soul sucking operation. |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
934
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:37:00 -
[89] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:There was strategic planning involved with hitting higher tiers. How many hours did you personally spend busting IHUBS for the Amarr during this time? At what point in time was it smart for amarr to bust ihubs? Really try to think about that one ok. The point being that if you actually did go through the whole massive plex busting offensive once (or twice, or maybe a third time like the rest of us) you wouldn't have such fond memories of a ridiculously soul sucking mechanic.
We were discussing the merits of the cashout system versus the current forever grind system.
Did you know we still have to bust ihubs to flip a system even though they ended the general cashout scheme?
There is nothing that says a cashout system must use bunker busting.
Yet another non-sequitur from XG. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
934
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 15:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Defying wrote: Now I am not going to go on this "nerf alts" rampage, because thats just beating a dead horse, we all know better and it's not going to happen. The game mechanics need to be balanced in a way that you make more LP through FIGHTING IN PLEXES then just sitting there and hoping no one shows up!....
You have correctly identified the problem that has existed since faction war started. This apparently is no small task, as some people still can't see it, after being in faction war for years.
The solutions you propose may need some work though.
For example, CCP already gives about as much lp for direct kills as they can without running into exploit problems with people blowing up their own alts.
Keep in mind its easy to have a one day old alt in an empty atron join the enemy militia.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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