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Fioda Skiza
Exiles of the Stars
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
After watching the EVE Keynotes from FF2013 I noticed that percents are removed from the scanner: screenshot http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8099/dspodyssey.png The percent readings are crucial for a popular scanning technique: DSP signature filtering. 1. Launch one Deep Space probe, set max radius 2. Filter results by signal strength 3. Use the reference signature strength table - you now can ignore up to 90% of signals if you are looking for a given type of an anomaly.
The video of the method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TYh5J7U4g The specialized website: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/nullsec.html
Do not break this smart and elegant method of scanning! Add those fancy color bars, but keep the percents as well. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1338
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
That is an excellent point. I have been watching for a devblog on the subject in order to post somewhere that a dev actually reads (not that they don't here, we've seen CCP Fozzie in here before). |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1788
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
I heard from corp mates that they raised it with CCP at fanfest and that they were going to look into it.
Personally, I'd be happy for it to go since ive always considered the method fairly dodgy. Also, if you probe enough you can tell what sig is what based on the results without needing any external reference so it doesnt really matter. |
Zeras Allyndar
Mass Disruption
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I heard from corp mates that they raised it with CCP at fanfest and that they were going to look into it.
Personally, I'd be happy for it to go since ive always considered the method fairly dodgy. Also, if you probe enough you can tell what sig is what based on the results without needing any external reference so it doesnt really matter.
I agree. I feel that all of the "advanced" scanning methods/tricks only benefit those who are not skilled enough or are too lazy to learn to scan properly. The DSP should exist to show you all signatures in a single scan and nothing more. ISD Ezwal: "Well, lets put it this way, if I would clean this thread by the forum rules, there would be very little left." |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zeras Allyndar wrote:
I agree. I feel that all of the "advanced" scanning methods/tricks only benefit those who are not skilled enough or are too lazy to learn to scan properly. The DSP should exist to show you all signatures in a single scan and nothing more.
OH YEAH THOSE CHEATING BASTARDS THAT CAN FLY A TITAN WHILE I CAN'T CAUE I DIDN"T TRAIN FOR THEM. Cheaters. they should be banned. Oh and the guys flying command ships too, or any other ship that i didn't train for yet.
genious post
ON TOPIC. the sig strength % was replaced with a bar, as far as i could tell. same thing, just hidden. almost. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1338
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zeras Allyndar wrote:Jack Miton wrote:I heard from corp mates that they raised it with CCP at fanfest and that they were going to look into it.
Personally, I'd be happy for it to go since ive always considered the method fairly dodgy. Also, if you probe enough you can tell what sig is what based on the results without needing any external reference so it doesnt really matter. I agree. I feel that all of the "advanced" scanning methods/tricks only benefit those who are not skilled enough or are too lazy to learn to scan properly. The DSP should exist to show you all signatures in a single scan and nothing more.
What a bunch of elitist bullshit. While there are multiple ways of getting an initial read on signatures without the use of a DSP, they certainly aren't simply for the lazy or stupid. I've been scanning WH's for almost 2 years now and have it down very well. I still like the DSP's and find them very accurate when used properly.
That being said, the loss of percentages will affect you "advanced" scanners as well, as you won't get a good initial read via any types of probes. So its very likely going to make scanning that empty WH with 40 sigs to find the exit even more tedious.
Additionally, it is potentially annoying, if you consider that outside of jump portal mods the only real reason to bother training astrometrics to 5 is for DSP's. |
Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
120
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't get it, all you need to do after the change is take a system full of sigs, launch a deep space probe and scan, then you note down how far the bars are filled for all the sigs and then scan down the sigs regularly and then couple this with the initial "fulness" of the bar. Voila, you now know what each signature strength looks like in the new system and nothing has changed, except that now you do not see a percentage, but how full the bar is. At good skills (which you should have when using a DS) the bands of signature strenght should be clearly visible on the bars. You can also always wait 2 days until someone else has done all this and has compiled a nice little website/chart that tells you how the bars look like at your skills for each signature strength.
EDIT: Also, the astrometrics skill gets a decent boost, making it worthwile to skil lto V. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1338
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:I don't get it, all you need to do after the change is take a system full of sigs, launch a deep space probe and scan, then you note down how far the bars are filled for all the sigs and then scan down the sigs regularly and then couple this with the initial "fulness" of the bar. Voila, you now know what each signature strength looks like in the new system and nothing has changed, except that now you do not see a percentage, but how full the bar is. At good skills (which you should have when using a DS) the bands of signature strenght should be clearly visible on the bars. You can also always wait 2 days until someone else has done all this and has compiled a nice little website/chart that tells you how the bars look like at your skills for each signature strength.
EDIT: Also, the astrometrics skill gets a decent boost, making it worthwile to skil lto V.
True if the bars are "accurate". It will just be an adjustment.
What about the astrometrics skill? What kind of boost does it get, cause right now all it gives you is 1 additional probe per level. |
Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
120
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455
Under scanning changes. Though unconfirmed, the latest data dump indicates that the scanning skills will be adjusted to this:
Astrometrics - 5% Reduced scan time, 5% reduced scan deviation and 5% increased scan strength per level Astrometric Acquisition - Changes from 10% reduced scan time per level to 5.0% per level Astrometric Pinpointing- Changes from 10% reduced scan deviation per level to 5.0% per level Astrometric Rangefinding- Changes from 10% increased probe strength per level to 5.0% per level |
MdZt
Starsoul Corporation Brotherhood of Starbridge
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
The method will not work with color bars because of the scale. You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good. |
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Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
120
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 15:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
MdZt wrote:The method will not work with color bars because of the scale. You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good.
Considering that you can sort by scan strength you will most definitly be able to see the bands in the signature strenghts at times where filtering sigs will be timesaving. Obviously if there are only 3 or 4 sigs in the system it might be hard to determine if the highest one is at 5% or 8%, but at those times it is not that much of a difference if you scan them down real quick. In systems where you have about 60+ signatures you will see the different bands in sig strength pretty clearly. In my opinion this is acutally a pretty nice improvement. This will make people decide at what number of sigs they will still scan out the entire system and when to use the DS method. I strongly believe that the DS method as it is now is dumbing down the hole scanning process too much. |
Phaderift
Sky Fighters Talocan United
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Indo Nira wrote:Zeras Allyndar wrote:
I agree. I feel that all of the "advanced" scanning methods/tricks only benefit those who are not skilled enough or are too lazy to learn to scan properly. The DSP should exist to show you all signatures in a single scan and nothing more.
OH YEAH THOSE CHEATING BASTARDS THAT CAN FLY A TITAN WHILE I CAN'T CAUE I DIDN"T TRAIN FOR THEM. Cheaters. they should be banned. Oh and the guys flying command ships too, or any other ship that i didn't train for yet. genious post ON TOPIC. the sig strength % was replaced with a bar, as far as i could tell. same thing, just hidden. almost.
the devs at the exploration round table had mentioned though it would not be shown in the % bar there was a high chance that you could mouse over the sig to get its strength. Also when it was brought up they said there would be other information there .. but it may not be enough to be used in the same way it is now .. EI sig strengths may gain some variation. |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
The only reason so little people draw an advantage out of using DSPs is the lack of astrometrics V and people dodging that train.
Out of all things, a deep space probe is nice to have in a covops, to quickly map a chain in short time. Just think of a c4GåÆc4-chain, normally crowded with sigs, and always a 2 minute scan effort just using a dsp. If it were to be taken out of the game, I'd consider it a serious punch in the face of people actually being creative at scanning and orientating - and yet another step to decrease the need for actual scanning skill or dependence on. |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Anomalous Existence Existential Anxiety
117
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:The only reason so little people draw an advantage out of using DSPs is the lack of astrometrics V and people dodging that train.
Out of all things, a deep space probe is nice to have in a covops, to quickly map a chain in short time. Just think of a c4GåÆc4-chain, normally crowded with sigs, and always a 2 minute scan effort just using a dsp. If it were to be taken out of the game, I'd consider it a serious punch in the face of people actually being creative at scanning and orientating - and yet another step to decrease the need for actual scanning skill or dependence on. Tech Two probe launchers require it as well. I use them on things like closing ships, where you really don't want to shell out for a Sisters launcher, but a scan boost is helpful in case you have to scan your way out after a botched roll.
As to the 'pixel hunting' issue: wouldn't that be fixed by scaling the bars according to the strongest sig present? (not perfect, but far better than the alternative). |
Zeras Allyndar
Mass Disruption
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:What a bunch of elitist bullshit.
How is it being "elitist" to say that taking the time to hone your skills and practice should be valued over simply training an extra 14 (or however many) days to use an item which lets you essentially circumvent a large portion of the scanning mechanic? You still have to actually find and resolve the Signature to 100%, so the DSP isn't simply an "easy button", but IMO it should not be so easy to filter out the Anoms that you are not interested in.
In regards to Indo's post; I believe the point you are making is that taking the time to train a skill should reward you over those who did not take the time to train. I agree with this statement, but I don't believe that there is any other skill in the game which takes only a few days and allows you to cut your effort by such a fraction as the DSP does. For example, lets take a system which has 10 sigs; you could spend a minute scanning each signature until you find the one you are looking for. With the DSP you could have your potential scans instantly cut in half, or a third, or even down to just one signature. There is no other 14 days skill in the game that gives you a 100% increase in your ability to do something and doesn't even require an ISK investment either. The transition to T2 guns does not double your DPS. It does provide a significant increase but it is not an instant "win fights" button.
The point which I was trying to make is that the DSP method provides too significant a reduction in time needed to "Explore" for the investment need to unlock it.
ISD Ezwal: "Well, lets put it this way, if I would clean this thread by the forum rules, there would be very little left." |
Grizzly Kreyszig
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 19:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
You don't need a DSP to determine the size of a sig. Core and combat probes work perfectly fine. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1339
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zeras Allyndar wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:What a bunch of elitist bullshit. How is it being "elitist" to say that taking the time to hone your skills and practice should be valued over simply training an extra 14 (or however many) days to use an item which lets you essentially circumvent a large portion of the scanning mechanic? You still have to actually find and resolve the Signature to 100%, so the DSP isn't simply an "easy button", but IMO it should not be so easy to filter out the Anoms that you are not interested in.
It isn't. Unfortunately what you just said here Isn't what you said up in post #4.
Benefiting from using DSP, and scanning skills are not mutually exclusive. To take what you actually said in post #4 would indicate that if I derive benefit from using DSP's then it must be because I'm too stupid or too lazy to scan properly. I assure you neither is the case.
Zeras Allyndar wrote:In regards to Indo's post; I believe the point you are making is that taking the time to train a skill should reward you over those who did not take the time to train. I agree with this statement, but I don't believe that there is any other skill in the game which takes only a few days and allows you to cut your effort by such a fraction as the DSP does. For example, lets take a system which has 10 sigs; you could spend a minute scanning each signature until you find the one you are looking for. With the DSP you could have your potential scans instantly cut in half, or a third, or even down to just one signature. There is no other 14 days skill in the game that gives you a 100% increase in your ability to do something and doesn't even require an ISK investment either. The transition to T2 guns does not double your DPS. It does provide a significant increase but it is not an instant "win fights" button.
The point which I was trying to make is that the DSP method provides too significant a reduction in time needed to "Explore" for the investment need to unlock it.
Nice argument, however you give the DSP too much credit. Similar result can be had using a single combat probe. Although the DSP results will generally be more accurate, especially in large systems.
And the core of this thread is that moving from exact percentages to inexact "strength bars" has the potential to affect everyone's abilities to filter signature strength whether they are using core, combat or DSP.
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MdZt
Starsoul Corporation Brotherhood of Starbridge
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 23:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
I fail to see DSP scanning as a hack. Maybe it was not intended like this by the devs but it is a beautiful and logical method. There is a solid physical footing underneath. There's a line between simplification for usability and dumbing the game down. Please don't force us to do the pixel hunting. Keep the real %% on screen. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
272
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 23:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
I will put it simple. I like the scanning minigame as it. Dont mess with it. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1790
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 07:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:What a bunch of elitist bullshit. While there are multiple ways of getting an initial read on signatures without the use of a DSP, they certainly aren't simply for the lazy or stupid. I've been scanning WH's for almost 2 years now and have it down very well. I still like the DSP's and find them very accurate when used properly.
That being said, the loss of percentages will affect you "advanced" scanners as well, as you won't get a good initial read via any types of probes. So its very likely going to make scanning that empty WH with 40 sigs to find the exit even more tedious.
Additionally, it is potentially annoying, if you consider that outside of jump portal mods the only real reason to bother training astrometrics to 5 is for DSP's. oh good, someone who thinks they know how to scan, my favorite :)
the change isnt going to affect my scanning at all since i dont use sig sizes, ever. scanning is my bread and butter and because i don't use sig sizes, ive actually focused my efforts at beign good at scanning, not just eliminating the sigs i dont need to scan.
a 40 sig system is about 8-10 min of work to ID all sigs and BM all WHs and if youre going to have all the K162s and the vast majority of outgoing WHs first 2min fairly easily since theyre the easiest to ID sigs. you don't need to do any 'initial scan', it just wastes time 99% of the time
youre also terribly wrong about the reasons to train astro 5. the reason you train astro 5 is so you can use 8 probes.
Grizzly Kreyszig wrote:You don't need a DSP to determine the size of a sig. Core and combat probes work perfectly fine. ^also, this, so you dont need astro 5 for this method in any case.
PS: im talking here about WH scanning. i realize that kspace plex runners use the DSP method way more than anyone in WHs for good reason. Sorry guys, but i really thing you should need to put at least some token effort into finding the plexes youre after. |
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers? W-Space Realtor |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers?
No, your not. Also **** CCP for even considering such a change. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1791
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 08:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers? since sisters are better, probably. |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 09:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Axloth Okiah wrote:uhm, am I the only one who uses T2 probe launchers? since sisters are better, probably.
oh damn, time to buy some now. learning new things everyday. |
Robert Fish
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like numbers and DSP probes keep it as it is please. |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
a bar is nice but , but yaeh , keep the percentage numbers |
Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 10:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
So I checked the video. The bars fill up "a percentage" of the way.
What's the problem here?
It'll take you 15 minutes (if that) to learn that "this full" is 5%, and "this full" is 2%
Still plenty of screen real-estate on the right hand side of the bar if the % is really required to be displayed. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1339
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 11:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:oh good, someone who thinks they know how to scan, my favorite :)
Lots of words Illustrating Jacks elitist attitude towards scanning.
I don't think I know how to scan. I do. In fact my 8 probe formation is one i based off, let's see, oh yea YOUR VIDEO.
And yea Jack, it is a pretty fast method to scan. But its not the fastest.
Protip. Just because someone doesn't use the same method as you, does not mean they don't know what they are doing. |
Samuel Cole
Legion of the Lucid Misfits Ushra'Khan
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 15:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:a 40 sig system is about 8-10 min of work to ID all sigs and BM all WHs and if youre going to have all the K162s and the vast majority of outgoing WHs first 2min fairly easily since theyre the easiest to ID sigs.
I'm pretty fast at scanning, but not quite that fast. For the sake of argument, though, let's say that I could consistently scan down 40 sigs in 10 minutes.
Living in a high class wspace system, it's not uncommon for our route to kspace to be four or five systems deep, with several dead-end branches along the way. All in all, find a route to kspace typically requires scanning down seven or eight systems, and this needs to be done multiple times per day, as wormholes open and close.
That means that even if we're blazingly fast with our scanning, we're still putting in upwards of three hours of scanning time each day. Using the deep space probe method simplifies that significantly, and means that scanning down wormhole routes is part of my typical play session rather than the entirety of my typical play session.
It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better about the game, which I view as a positive. |
Space Wanderer
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 17:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:PS: im talking here about WH scanning. i realize that kspace plex runners use the DSP method way more than anyone in WHs for good reason. Sorry guys, but i really thing you should need to put at least some token effort into finding the plexes youre after.
Hearing this from somebody who doesn't even care about learning the scanning formula... Yes, we know that you see as "cheating" any attempt to understand the system, and think that we all should only use headlong trial and error grinding.
Anyway, I was at the fanfest and I saw the presentation too. I don't think the changes will make DSP as it is now useless, and even if they did, I think it wouldn't be too hard to tweak the procedure to still get decent readings, although a bit less accurate. Sure, you might have to learn a little bit to estimate the bar length, but I remember in apoc beta that people were screaming left and right "scanning is hard" when deviation was still not implemented...
Now, if they were changing the scanning mechanics themselves, for instance adding a very high fluctuation in signal strength for low sigs, I would be more worried, but from what they said in the round table there should be no such changes. I am pretty sure the changes to scanning will be pretty much cosmetics, despite the expansion be "exploration oriented". We'll just have to learn some new trick, that's all.
We are still very far froma real "scan is an art" technique. Currently it is just a procedure, and a well-studied one at that. |
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Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat Dark Taboo
122
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 20:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
I am kind of wondering, in case they do not put in the percentage value, whether drawing lines on an old monitor, right over the scanning window to indicate where the 3%, 5% and 8% marks are, would be considered a bannable third party client modification. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 20:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
This was raised with the devs at fanfest already, they know we want to keep %'s |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1791
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 04:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Samuel Cole wrote:It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better about the game, which I view as a positive. it doesnt make you better, just lazier.
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MdZt
Starsoul Corporation Brotherhood of Starbridge
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:MdZt wrote:The method will not work with color bars because of the scale. You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good. Considering that you can sort by scan strength you will most definitly be able to see the bands in the signature strenghts. I messed up with the numbers. With DSP at 256AU the percents vary from 0.03% to 0.3%. With resolution of 1920x1200 the size of the scanner window is less then 500 pixels. So NO. You will NOT see the difference on the color-bar. All the results will fall between 0 pixels and 1 pixel.
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wicho lee
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 20:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP, plz do not replace signal str readings with a bar that fills up. This will make probing slower because selective probing will be almost impossible. Don't break something that works! Unless the new bars show signal strength then thats fine..I love scanning and I'm glad you guys are adding to it, there just needs to be a way to differentiate sigs with a single scan that's the whole reason I trained for DSP probes... |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
wicho lee wrote:CCP, plz do not replace signal str readings with a bar that fills up. This will make probing slower because selective probing will be almost impossible. Don't break something that works! Unless the new bars show signal strength then thats fine..I love scanning and I'm glad you guys are adding to it, there just needs to be a way to differentiate sigs with a single scan that's the whole reason I trained for DSP probes...
true words said
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
432
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 09:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
It's also very important that copy-pasting the scan results will still contain the numbers, even if they are only displayed as bars on screen. . |
Nometh Xergent
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
235
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 13:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
It would be wonderful if they could just add an option: "Show %%%%%%%%%" With great responsibility comes great DPS.-á |
Bloody Wench
329
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 13:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
MdZt wrote:The method will not work with color bars because of the scale. You wont' see the difference between 3%, 5% and 8% signal. Pixel hunting is bad! Numbers are good.
Pretty sure I can write a script to count pixels and output to an overlay. Probably shouldn't say that out loud. Support a Hi Resolution Texture Pack |
Innabiggahurry
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 18:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Samuel Cole wrote:It's not a perfect method - it will often cause you to miss wandering WHs because you're only looking for statics - but it's an excellent example of how learning more about the game can make you better about the game, which I view as a positive. it doesnt make you better, just lazier. People who spend several hours a day playing a video game should not be calling other people "lazy." If you're looking for productive and hard working, log off and go do your chores.
CCP needs to fix scanning along with many other things to remove the needless complexity. What I want to know is a 20k-year-in-the-future spaceship filled with incredible technology can't seem to do basic math without the pilot's direct intervention. At least they'll be adding probe formations; that is a step in the right direction. |
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 20:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
It was mentioned at the exploration roundtable. They weren't sure but they though the % was now in a tooltip if you hover over it. But basicly the system hasn't changed just how it is shown. But maybe the csm's should point them to this thread, i seem to remember meeting a dev in the pubcrawl that wanted to know how we used them. But i can't remeber who, to much beer :p. |
MdZt
Starsoul Corporation Brotherhood of Starbridge
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 20:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:Pretty sure I can write a script to count pixels and output to an overlay. you can't count pixels. with DSP at 256 AU all the signals will be 0 pixels or 1 pixel. |
Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 02:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Imagine my surprise that when I logged onto Sisi tonight my beloved deeps were gone.
My scanning technique involves 4 deeps and 4 combats so not sure why deeps have been removed. I'd love to see them put back in and allow for preset scanning formations using multiple probe types.
My 2 isk. |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 03:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
I want them back as well. I have 2 toons extra skilled for using them |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1805
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 04:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
Let's face it, the only reason to ever launch a DSP is to cover a whole system that is larger than 64au with a single probe when checking for new sigs. Actually probing with them is LOL terrible and the sig strength identification method works better with combat probes anyway.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1346
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 05:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Well Jack here is a dev snippet from over on the test server feedback forums to make even you go wtf
"Seven probes launched at once Probe launchers can now only launch a maximum of seven probes. These probes are now launched all together. One click, launches all." |
Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 06:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
This upsets me mightily.
I've just logged into my fav WH scanning calculation website and I see a huge message at the top in red saying that DSPs are getting removed on June 4th. CCP WTF?!
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/lowsec.html?str=11.60&f=5&sec=1
I know you can use core and combat probes in the same fashion but this is going to make scanning new static connections a serious ball ache. Scanning already takes up a lot of time in WH space but now it's going to take several times longer, especially if you connect to a new system with many sigs; finding the static exit to k space is going to be a pain.
Just my two cents. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1807
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 06:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:"Seven probes launched at once Probe launchers can now only launch a maximum of seven probes. These probes are now launched all together. One click, launches all." oh **** off...
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Duramah
Bite Me inc Bitten.
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 08:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
guys I'd visit this thread and leave a reply as to why we need the 8th probe back along with some other adjustments.
Atm all the nullbears are shadowing us over with nullsites tweaks and dumb suggestion and especially our voices need to be heard! If this doesn't happen I think this will cause a lot of pain on the casual daily life with us WH dudes when the patch comes out. |
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
211
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 09:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Your all bad and you should feel bad.
This change is ******* shite and i'm ******* MAD BRO
MY JIMMIES ARE RUSTLED.
WSpace; Best space. |
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Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 10:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Efraya wrote:Your all bad and you should feel bad.
This change is ******* shite and i'm ******* MAD BRO
MY JIMMIES ARE RUSTLED.
+1 & **** CCP for even messing with scanning. |
grassy 420
Boris Johnson's Love Children
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 10:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
personally i think the dsp's are ****** i know some people that use them. to me they are anoying, they are for people who don't feel like scanning down a system. so they just figure what out what entrances/exits there are. WHICH in some cases. is nice, if u need to gtfo.. but on daily regular basis its just sloppy. a potiental fight could happen at these sites. also your corp mates may later on love you for scanning that sig down so they can farm ect.. lastly it helps people find new sigs that havn't poped up yet or maybe later on. |
Kuklinski
Continuum. Nuclear Confusion
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 11:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
Anyone else use the DSPs for pinpointing fat-ass boats to drop right on top of?I do and have convinced myself that even if its one time in ten that they've seen DSPs and not Combats and thus havent immediately hit warp-to-gtfo then they worth using/keeping in game.
Can i ask them maybe better in the know-am i reading it correct that the new discovery scanner is going to be showing the appearance of any new sigs. that appear in a system(with auto-repeat as well?!!)......pfft. |
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
55
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 12:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
As Jack I believe said, DSP's have 1 real purpose and that is watching a large system for new K162 or other sigs. I am lazy and use the 7 probe method, but I certainly don't agree with eliminating the DSP or 8 probe option. I hate to say it, but this is simply dumbing down scanning and making it much easier for people. Good, bad, I don't know about the bigger picture that CCP is looking at. But for w-space, not having that DSP to cover your plexing system is certainly a change...
What I didn't try on SiSi was checking to see if the new scanner runs when you jump into a wh. Not having read much on the topic, I don't know if that was proposed or not, but it does seem like a logical extension of the new feature/functionality. Anything to get targets errr I mean space friends into a site and plexing quicker (without bothering to check the surroundings) is good in my book. The enemy of my enemy is... -ájust another guy that needs killin' |
Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 15:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Let's face it, the only reason to ever launch a DSP is to cover a whole system that is larger than 64au with a single probe when checking for new sigs. Actually probing with them is LOL terrible and the sig strength identification method works better with combat probes anyway.
This is not true. They are excellent when used with combats for scanning down sigs. I use them and this scanning change dumbs down the whole process to push buttan, get sigs.
I can't believe CCP ran this by any CSM because I'd hope they'd call this nerf out.
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1351
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 23:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Having spent some time scanning on Sisi (getting myself out of our WH, 5 system chain) I can safely say I don't really miss the DSP's.
The loss of 8 probes does suck.
I fear the system scanner will make farming even safer. |
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Disavowed.
55
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 12:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Having spent some time scanning on Sisi (getting myself out of our WH, 5 system chain) I can safely say I don't really miss the DSP's.
The loss of 8 probes does suck.
I fear the system scanner will make farming even safer.
I also spent some time on SiSi tinkering with the new probe system. For anyone that hasn't, I suggest you do so and familiarize yourself with the new system. At first I really hated it because it is just not the same and muscle memory/changing techniques is a ***** TBH. As I used it and learned how it is different, I found that it really is a tad quicker now (unless you are a scanning God). One of the formations, I forget which, I think is useless due to huge gaps in the probe coverage. But maybe that's just me being OCD. The other formation works though, and you can of course still move the probes individually by hitting the "Shift" key. Dragging the "bubbles" in the map took some getting used to to change probe range... But manipulating the probe ranges and formation is not intuitive at first, and takes some getting used to. All in all, it is definitely easier.
Regarding people like wh dwellers that scan all the time, with the loss of probe 8, the DSP, and ONLY being able to launch 7 at a time (correct, you can't launch just 1 anymore), I think it is a downgrade to what we have now. For the noobs, it makes life easier. It even has Auto-Reload now. So the upside to all this is hopefully we will have more targets scanning down wh and seeing what they are about. As a 7 probe scanner, other than not being able to keep an eye on sigs in an entire system using a single DSP, and having to get used to the new mechanics, I don't really see a huge downside to the changes... The enemy of my enemy is... -ájust another guy that needs killin' |
Galileo Ohaya
Tortuga Coalition 102
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 03:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kind of upset at all the isk I have in DSPs as well.
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Matuk Grymwal
Bite Me inc Bitten.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 02:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Well just flipped to the feedback thread and I see CCP are already working on putting the 8th probe back due to overwhelming demand (and making other tweaks). I'll try to give the new changes a run tonight. See:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3006640#post3006640 |
Matuk Grymwal
Bite Me inc Bitten.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 09:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Okay I've tried out the changes and I've found some issues. Setting up custom formations is going to be much more annoying if they don't make further changes (I think anyone with half a clue about scanning will find it annoying to setup their own preferred formations).
You may want to check out my post in the main thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3018585#post3018585 |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2461
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 16:55:00 -
[61] - Quote
I have removed some trolling from this thread. New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
276
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
I tested a bit the new system and some things I like. You can now move the probes and keep them in formations easier than before, but, -+no eight probes formation?, maybe my skills in siggy are not up to date, but... No timers on probes. I haven't lost one in a while now, but I don`t know how will that impact on the market.
I still havent made up my mind.
Oh, the modules I haven`t checked them. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1375
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:No timers on probes.
I haven't seen an answer from a DEV yet, but maybe like auto recall on jumping they will auto recall on expire?
Sad if that is the case. Losing all of those "paying for entrance to Jxxxxxx" threads would, well actually be fine. But a loss of entertainment.
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Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
276
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 18:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
There are a lot of things. By default, all probes are hidden except the middle one and their spheres. They are only shown if you press shift that lets you move one by one (thou there is actually no need for that). Seven probes formatoins have being optized to the max. But I'm worried about the probes deal.
Edit: also, no names on planets or probes which improves things a lot too. And when you reduce the sizes of the probes you dont need to mo e the outer probes, it does it by default. |
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