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Lojak 2501
The Black Hole Republic
16
   |
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
ok ive been in eve since the last 1/2 of 06 and and i have an odd question that just got shoved to the back burner and never answered. so here it is
ive been in and out of high sec, low sec, and null. but out in null i noticed that there were no mining ops. why is this? major alliences and corps gotta build or import everything from high sec. traders ive seen hell a buddy of mine made LOADS of isk in a blockaded runner and alot of time.
ive kept an eye (at that time) for belt ops but never saw any. and even in recruitment channels when recruiters are out and about for new blood they want combat pilots over the builders and miners anyday.
so my question i guess is really why arent there more miners out there? even before this mineral rebalance stuff i just thought this was odd
|
Danni stark
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
because until this rebalance happens, you make more isk in high sec where you can go afk and not give a damn, or have to bother with tedious logistics etc. basically.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor
Black Core Alliance
923
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are plenty of miners in null. Just open the game map and set statistics to industry upgrades. Those level 3-4 and 5 systems didn't get that way on their own.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Lojak 2501
The Black Hole Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 16:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
so it was more the miners not wanting to go out there. where as i thought it was miners werent wanted out there?
makes sence considering. |
Danni stark
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 17:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lojak 2501 wrote:so it was more the miners not wanting to go out there. where as i thought it was miners werent wanted out there?
makes sence considering.
bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.
corps aren't going to go out of their way to accommodate people who have very little to contribute, and if people aren't given a reason to go there then they won't.
neither factor is to blame on it's own, it is a bit of a combination of both, mainly the lack of reason to be in null to be honest. those miners that are there, are there for more than the mining.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Xessej
Darqsyde Exploration Limited
Mass - Effect
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lojak 2501 wrote:so my question i guess is really why arent there more miners out there? even before this mineral rebalance stuff i just thought this was odd
There are a lot of miners out there those industrial upgrades didn't just appear. Miners in null don't mine in belts since they have those great grav sites. Also they tend to dock up if a nuetral is in system. |
Erloas
Unorthodox Operations
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
I haven't been in that many different alliances, but the ones I have been in have all had mining ops at some frequency.
Usually ice mining is specifically for POS fuel and only done when supplies are getting low and regular mining is for ISK and depends mostly on the individual player.
You will *never* see a miner in null sec though unless they are in your alliance (or coalition for those larger then alliance alliances) because you learn quickly that any neutral in space is worth docking for and waiting out or switching ships and hunting down.
Also many alliances or corps won't specifically recruit for industrialists because it makes them an easy target. If you can go to the forums and easily see Corp X is heavily recruiting for industrialists then you figure out what systems they frequent and go hunt them down or war-dec them and try to intercept their hauling operations to high-sec. |
Krax As
Silent Tears in Space
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:...snappp
bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.
....snippet.
so miners do not contribute ? to the game or the corp in null ?
or to what ?? don-¦t get me wrong , I just want to unerstand..
and what about the most precious ores in the game ?? (ABC) ? I always thought those are in null ? I thought those are worth something ??
stupid me |
Danni stark
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 19:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krax As wrote:Danni stark wrote:...snappp
bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.
....snippet. so miners do not contribute ? to the game or the corp in null ? or to what ?? don-¦t get me wrong , I just want to unerstand.. and what about the most precious ores in the game ?? (ABC) ? I always thought those are in null ? I thought those are worth something ?? stupid me
i was mostly referring to corps. mining isn't a taxable activity. refining is, however it's been a while since i was in null and i *think* refining tax goes to the corp that owns the station, not the corp that you belong to. (feel free to correct me if that isn't the case)
so no, miners aren't really contributing anything to the corp in that respect.
odds are they can't fly a combat ship to join CTAs and the like (if they can, why are they mining? ratting is a superior source of isk (or, so i've been led to believe)).
the problem is there's no real synergy between miners, and corps. neither one really has anything to offer the other. the only way miners end up in corps is if the corp has some thing to offer the miner that isn't mining related (eg, pos for research, or some other kind of benefit.)
i'll wager the people that do mine in 0.0 aren't exclusively miners, like some high sec players are (some being me, although i don't think i'm the only one. at least, i hope not)
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Ersahi Kir
Infinite Mobility
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
147
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Krax As wrote:Danni stark wrote:...snappp
bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.
....snippet. so miners do not contribute ? to the game or the corp in null ? or to what ?? don-¦t get me wrong , I just want to unerstand.. and what about the most precious ores in the game ?? (ABC) ? I always thought those are in null ? I thought those are worth something ?? stupid me
Most miners only want to mine, they don't want to be bothered with call to arms. I think it's ok if you have a few miners and you log them off and only play your main when doing fleet ops, but it's a lot less useful to the corp if you log off all your toons if you don't want to fight at all.
Another issue, that may be getting addressed in June, is that null sec industry is difficult to pull off because of the lack of basic minerals in null sec ores. With just a handful of miners you can pull in the rare ores needed for high end production, and it's much easier to just jump freighter in all the low valued materials needed to produce ships and modules. I know that if we had enough miners to fully seed our local null trade hub it would be terrific, but honestly it's often much more efficient to just blow up some pirates and pay for the things you need to be jumped out.
So I guess my final conclusion is that it's a combination of having access to isk generating activities, the miners not being interested in participating in fleet ops, and the prevalence of mass jumping capability that combine in making null sec miners rare. |
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
95
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 20:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
The nature of miners and PvP'ers dont mix. Miners are not going to make a huge exodus to null to set up the large-scale mining ops that CCP invisions for null without some protection. PvP'ers arent going to sit around all day twitteling thumbs hoping someone might attack the mining op their protecting. There will be some who go and find some success, but most wont go, or quickly turn around and head home to Hi.
As for people suggesting null PvP'ers bring their mining alts back to null, I doubt it. They mine in hi so theycan afk while they PvP their main. They won't be able to do that if they have to babysit their mining alt. The ones that do go, would be dedicated miners, who are awake at the keyboard chatting up while mining. Question is, how long will they stay when they become a primary target with no protection from the crp they mine for? |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 21:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Most of the above comments seem to confirm what I thought would happen after the June changes. The spodumain won't get mined to a large extent, the jump freighters will continue to travel to high sec to buy low ends, and the mineral prices will recover.
There was a fair bit of fuss to get these low ends provided in null but not much interest in mining them. |
Danni stark
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 21:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Most of the above comments seem to confirm what I thought would happen after the June changes. The spodumain won't get mined to a large extent, the jump freighters will continue to travel to high sec to buy low ends, and the mineral prices will recover.
There was a fair bit of fuss to get these low ends provided in null but not much interest in mining them.
spod will get mined just as much after odyssey as it does now, in proportion to the other ores in null sec.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
49
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 05:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think it will depend on whether the outpost changes have gone far enough. Local production would drive local mining, not just prices.
Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Centurion Dorn
Simplified Operations
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 21:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
There needs to exist a synergy between the mining toons and PvP toons of null sec corps, but currently there is not.
I think in the grand vision of CCP they see miners toiling away in fields to haul in ore that is then turned into ships that the PvPers use to either defend their space or go on the attack. That just isn't happening because of:
a) the player base - as stated by someone in here, miners "contribute nothing". This is both true and false. True in the case that, a miner brought in to a null sec corp isn't forced to sell the ore he/she brings in to the corp/alliance. So that miner can either just sell it outright at whatever price they can get, or make items to sell at whatever price point works out to be profitable. False in the fact that a miner CAN contribute quite a bit to a null corp, but they are seen as not because of the mentality of "They don't play the way I do, so they're wrong". PvP'ers see miners just sitting around with lasers on rocks and think that that's all they do. But if an industrialist turned their production skills to output strictly for corp purposes, you could see corp coffers filled and hangers full of whatever you need.
b) mechanics - Most miners like it safe, and any miner that heads out to null is going to know that it's not safe, but it needs to be made so within reason. Any null-sec corp can have guard toons on standby, but that's not going to help in alot of situations. One cloaker in system will shut down your operations because they know a blop cannot be far behind. I've said on a few occasions where CCP really needs to make a new destroyer that can hunt down cloaked ships, but that doesn't appear to be happening ever. So it's easier to sit in high-sec, mine, build, sell and let the nullers deal with the logistics.
CCP seems to be moving toward making it more expensive to operate large logistics moves to null while at the same time making industry |
Zoairon Dread
Renzler Industries
Omnium Libertatem
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 08:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
I really don't understand that the same arguments are repeated over & over when they're just completely false.
From the above post there is an agreement that alliances/PvP'ers do not benefit from miners in any way and that nullsec is just to dangerous for the poor little carebears. This is just plainly WRONG.
1. Synergy miners/alliance.
Any alliance will benefit greatly from a good mining/indy corp joining them. Having an industrial base setup in deep blue 0.0 makes it sooo much easier for all the other members of the alliance to procure ship/ammo/equipment/rigs/etc... When JF into highsec will become a lot more expensive in Odyssy why would go through all the trouble & cost of an expensive logistic JF/JB route when you can just make it where you live?
Also many make the argument nobody mines in 0.0 because there are easier ways to make isk. That may be, but miners mine not only for the isk, but simply because they like to mine. Some people get their enjoyment from shooting a rock, refining said rocks and making stuff for a profit. This might as alien to a regular 0.0 PvP'er as PvP for me, but to each his own.
And aside from that, miner/indy corps will just pay a monthly tax to their blue overlords. Since they make a crapton of money from mining/indy in 0.0, just let them pay taxes.
2. Its 0.0...RUUUUUUUUUUN
Highsec is not safe to mine lol. Anytime you can get suicide ganked just for fun or people try to blackmail you (James315 for example) while you're competing over crappy rocks with a fuckton of other miners. Anytime Hulkageddon is held or when the Goonies are bored highsec is just to unsafe for mining.
Compared to deep 0.0, what danger is there? If you don't react to an enemy fleet coming through 15 systems towards you, u deserve to die. Besides that there are only rats??? |
xCassiopiax
Naari LLC
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 14:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reuben Johnson wrote:The nature of miners and PvP'ers dont mix. Miners are not going to make a huge exodus to null to set up the large-scale mining ops that CCP invisions for null without some protection. PvP'ers arent going to sit around all day twitteling thumbs hoping someone might attack the mining op their protecting. There will be some who go and find some success, but most wont go, or quickly turn around and head home to Hi.
As for people suggesting null PvP'ers bring their mining alts back to null, I doubt it. They mine in hi so theycan afk while they PvP their main. They won't be able to do that if they have to babysit their mining alt. The ones that do go, would be dedicated miners, who are awake at the keyboard chatting up while mining. Question is, how long will they stay when they become a primary target with no protection from the crp they mine for?
^^ This, this upcoming patch will benefit miners that are already established in null. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
610
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I think it will depend on whether the outpost changes have gone far enough. Local production would drive local mining, not just prices.
Not if the risk for miners goes up.
Some simple facts about null sec mining.
Currently less than 1 in 10 null sec roaming ships fits a probe launcher for tracking down targets.
the only way to find a miner in a hidden belt grav site is by using probes to scan them down.
This means only about 1 in 10 or 10% of the roaming PVPers are a threat to the miners, as the rest do not have probe launchers.
With the change from grav sites to anomalies that number goes from 10% to 100%.
That is at a minimum 10 times the threat level or a 1000% increase in risk.
If null sec mining is not so popular now, how is it going to be more popular at 1000% higher risk?
Will a 10-20% increase in reward be enough to offset that increase in risk?
If you think the answer is yes, you must be smoking the same stuff as Fozzie.... |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
610
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 18:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
xCassiopiax wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:The nature of miners and PvP'ers dont mix. Miners are not going to make a huge exodus to null to set up the large-scale mining ops that CCP invisions for null without some protection. PvP'ers arent going to sit around all day twitteling thumbs hoping someone might attack the mining op their protecting. There will be some who go and find some success, but most wont go, or quickly turn around and head home to Hi.
As for people suggesting null PvP'ers bring their mining alts back to null, I doubt it. They mine in hi so theycan afk while they PvP their main. They won't be able to do that if they have to babysit their mining alt. The ones that do go, would be dedicated miners, who are awake at the keyboard chatting up while mining. Question is, how long will they stay when they become a primary target with no protection from the crp they mine for? ^^ This, this upcoming patch will benefit miners that are already established in null.
how many already established miners in null rely on the safety of hidden belts for protection against roaming gangs?
With this change that protection will be gone.
Fozzie says this protection will need to be replaced by the corp/alliance combat pilots(PVPers) protecting the mining fleets.
That is not going to happen.
Currently established miners in null will see there risk going up 1000% with only a small boost to profits. If anything this will drive a lot of those established miners out of null sec. |
Klarion Sythis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 19:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Fozzie says this protection will need to be replaced by the corp/alliance combat pilots(PVPers) protecting the mining fleets.
Where did Fozzie say that?
Also, will this make miners go to null? Yes. I'm a pvper and I might finally return to Sov null to make some money from this with a mining team.. Also, as a pvper who has lived in null, low, and W-Space, I think the measures needed to mitigate risk and stay safe are laughably easy. This isn't 1000% more risky, you just need to be 1000% less AFK. |
Sir Marksalot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
417
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 20:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Krax As wrote:Danni stark wrote:...snappp
bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.
....snippet. so miners do not contribute ? to the game or the corp in null ? or to what ?? don-¦t get me wrong , I just want to unerstand.. and what about the most precious ores in the game ?? (ABC) ? I always thought those are in null ? I thought those are worth something ?? stupid me
They're not worth that much. Mining is a really terrible source of income unless you're multiboxing like mad. The upcoming expansion is going to make it less painfully bad though.
Zoairon Dread wrote:I really don't understand that the same arguments are repeated over & over when they're just completely false.
From the above post there is an agreement that alliances/PvP'ers do not benefit from miners in any way and that nullsec is just to dangerous for the poor little carebears. This is just plainly WRONG.
1. Synergy miners/alliance.
Any alliance will benefit greatly from a good mining/indy corp joining them. Having an industrial base setup in deep blue 0.0 makes it sooo much easier for all the other members of the alliance to procure ship/ammo/equipment/rigs/etc... When JF into highsec will become a lot more expensive in Odyssy why would go through all the trouble & cost of an expensive logistic JF/JB route when you can just make it where you live?
Also many make the argument nobody mines in 0.0 because there are easier ways to make isk. That may be, but miners mine not only for the isk, but simply because they like to mine. Some people get their enjoyment from shooting a rock, refining said rocks and making stuff for a profit. This might as alien to a regular 0.0 PvP'er as PvP for me, but to each his own.
And aside from that, miner/indy corps will just pay a monthly tax to their blue overlords. Since they make a crapton of money from mining/indy in 0.0, just let them pay taxes.
Why would you care about an industrial corp? There isn't that much money to be made in mining compared to just ratting. Perfect hulks with a perfect rorqual boost make about half what a bad vindicator pilot does. Why make an effort to mine as an alliance when you can just hire cheap highsec day laborers for pennies to get your minerals for you?
Zoairon Dread wrote:
2. Its 0.0...RUUUUUUUUUUN
Highsec is not safe to mine lol. Anytime you can get suicide ganked just for fun or people try to blackmail you (James315 for example) while you're competing over crappy rocks with a fuckton of other miners. Anytime Hulkageddon is held or when the Goonies are bored highsec is just to unsafe for mining.
Compared to deep 0.0, what danger is there? If you don't react to an enemy fleet coming through 15 systems towards you, u deserve to die. Besides that there are only rats???
what the christ
e: Not that things aren't made in 0.0, they just tend to be capitals and BS. And they tend to be made by very small groups of rich players. |
ravenlock37
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 07:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
There really isnt much hazards to mining in null. If any miner with half a brain is paying attention to local or corp/alliance intel channels they will know of an incoming gang before its in system or on top of them.
Even with the changes to grav sites its not an issue. I can think of one example that come to mind. While roaming in null recently I saw 3 Hulks and a few retrievers mining in a system with an ice field. Naturally I warp to the ice field, as I land the hulks are just hitting warp, and im left floating in an ice field with no targets and a bunch of cans, which I can assume were filled with ice.
Simple way for a null miner to stay safe, mine aligned to station or pos, nuet in local, get the **** out of dodge. The only thing that will make mining out in null a very hazerdous activity is if local is removed as it provides quick and easy intel of non friendly pilots in system.
Now this lets afk cloakers not only disrupt the ratters, but if a heavily mined system is found, they can disrupt the production chains of null alliances now that JFing will be more expensive with the ice changes. |
Danni stark
211
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 09:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
ravenlock37 wrote:Now this lets afk cloakers not only disrupt the ratters, but if a heavily mined system is found, they can disrupt the production chains of null alliances now that JFing will be more expensive with the ice changes.
what do you mean if one can be found? just hit f10 set it to industry index et voila map of all the systems full of miners.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 01:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Null sec miners don't broadcast their activities. |
Ian Tomalak
Kobol Defense Force
R O G U E
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Danni stark wrote:Lojak 2501 wrote:so it was more the miners not wanting to go out there. where as i thought it was miners werent wanted out there?
makes sence considering. bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth. corps aren't going to go out of their way to accommodate people who have very little to contribute, and if people aren't given a reason to go there then they won't. neither factor is to blame on it's own, it is a bit of a combination of both, mainly the lack of reason to be in null to be honest. those miners that are there, are there for more than the mining.
As a miner and manufacturer in null, I can state that you are dead wrong. Some of the strongest corps out there are the ones who support their industrialists. My corp has weekly mandatory mining ops, where we all show up to mine for the corp. Then the industrialists take the minerals and turn it into ships/modules which go back to the corp. So, you are wrong that miners don't contribute anything. |
Danni stark
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ian Tomalak wrote:Danni stark wrote:Lojak 2501 wrote:so it was more the miners not wanting to go out there. where as i thought it was miners werent wanted out there?
makes sence considering. bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth. corps aren't going to go out of their way to accommodate people who have very little to contribute, and if people aren't given a reason to go there then they won't. neither factor is to blame on it's own, it is a bit of a combination of both, mainly the lack of reason to be in null to be honest. those miners that are there, are there for more than the mining. As a miner and manufacturer in null, I can state that you are dead wrong. Some of the strongest corps out there are the ones who support their industrialists. My corp has weekly mandatory mining ops, where we all show up to mine for the corp. Then the industrialists take the minerals and turn it into ships/modules which go back to the corp. So, you are wrong that miners don't contribute anything.
great so you have a bunch of idiots who are ok with being used as slave labour. most miners aren't. the overt lack of synergy between miners and player run corps is blindingly obvious.
you do realise, for the same amount of man hours if you all ratted and used the ratting bounties to import 425mm railguns you'd have more minerals than your mining op, right? (contrary to popular belief, minerals you mine are not free)
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Jin Ro Chung
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well I've only gotten into EVE this month, but it strikes me that people and corps tend to give miners a wide berth because they're noobs. Mining is a great starting profession so that not only means gankers and griefers will always attack miners (free kill, no skill required whatsoever, don't even need a good ship, and often new miners think they can be AFK, obviously, because it's so mind-numbingly dull, something which griefers are only too happy to rub in) but also everyone involved in mining is carrying a big "NEWB" sign on their ships.
Considering corps tend to want to make money they're only interested in PvP and combat pilots who can protect their assets and ops. Of course the serious miners in low and nullsec who don't use barges or exhumers are making ISK billions so there's no incentive for them to invite newbs into that world, and every incentive to keep them out.
It's a real shame, lowsec or nullsec mining can be really tempting for new players, but in reality it takes years of skill training and hundreds of euros before you'll be ready for that. People who reside in lowsec and nullsec think they're teaching their prey some valuable lessons about PvP-readiness but in reality they're just territorial and taking the path of least resistance, having forgotten that even just training basic survival skills takes months/years for new players. EVE players often say "No really the smallest newb frigate can turn an entire fleet battle upside down!" but that's just cognitive dissonance: we like the EVE universe so we blindly accept that it comes with truly absurd game mechanics (ie waiting for skills). I don't see myself joining a corp or fleet warfare for years to come (I don't know how long the minimum requirement of 15M SP will take but I'm guessing years).
What I really don't get about EVE is how it's made so that you're better off NOT playing the game (only keeping your skill training queue filled) for the first months while you train up essential skills, but since I don't have the money to support such a bizarre hobby I'll actually make use of my playtime anyway and take the inevitable "educational" griefing as it comes. I also completely recognize that griefing and ganking is a valid playstyle (makes every game from Minecraft to DayZ more interesting) it's just a shame many try to actively be as douchy as they can be to new players.
It's my own fault really, I should've picked up EVE years ago, but I've always instinctively hated MMOs (and have always been proven right in that MMOs always suck and are always compulsion-based themeparks) because of their economical-compulsive properties and EVE only differs so much. Instead of active grinding you're just grinding passively (using your time) so it's at least a slight improvement over regular themepark MMOs.
Oh well, I've resigned myself to trying to have fun irrespective of the fact that I came to this game 10 years too late. |
Danni stark
226
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jin Ro Chung wrote:Oh well, I've resigned myself to trying to have fun irrespective of the fact that I came to this game 10 years too late. no, you just came to the game with the completely wrong attitude.
Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
Sir Marksalot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
443
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ian Tomalak wrote:
As a miner and manufacturer in null, I can state that you are dead wrong. Some of the strongest corps out there are the ones who support their industrialists. My corp has weekly mandatory mining ops, where we all show up to mine for the corp. Then the industrialists take the minerals and turn it into ships/modules which go back to the corp. So, you are wrong that miners don't contribute anything.
I'm not sure if you're trolling, or if you actually think this is normal and a smart thing to do.
Jin Ro Chung wrote:Well I've only gotten into EVE this month, but it strikes me that people and corps tend to give miners a wide berth because they're noobs.
Wrong on so many points already.
"Considering corps tend to want to make money they're only interested in PvP and combat pilots who can protect their assets and ops. Of course the serious miners in low and nullsec who don't use barges or exhumers are making ISK billions so there's no incentive for them to invite newbs into that world, and every incentive to keep them out."
What the christ do you think they're mining in? Titans? Exhumers are the best mining ships in the game.
"It's a real shame, lowsec or nullsec mining can be really tempting for new players, but in reality it takes years of skill training and hundreds of euros before you'll be ready for that. "
I count 30d on my skillplan to fly a competent Covetor. Again, do you think we're mining in titans?
"People who reside in lowsec and nullsec think they're teaching their prey some valuable lessons about PvP-readiness but in reality they're just territorial and taking the path of least resistance, having forgotten that even just training basic survival skills takes months/years for new players. EVE players often say "No really the smallest newb frigate can turn an entire fleet battle upside down!" but that's just cognitive dissonance: we like the EVE universe so we blindly accept that it comes with truly absurd game mechanics (ie waiting for skills). I don't see myself joining a corp or fleet warfare for years to come (I don't know how long the minimum requirement of 15M SP will take but I'm guessing years)."
There is no minimum SP requirement to enter 0.0. But please, tell us more about how things operate in this place you don't plan on going into for "years to come".
(My 6-month old alts have 12m sp)
"What I really don't get about EVE is how it's made so that you're better off NOT playing the game (only keeping your skill training queue filled) for the first months while you train up essential skills"
Whoever told you this was flat wrong.
"It's my own fault really, I should've picked up EVE years ago, but I've always instinctively hated MMOs (and have always been proven right in that MMOs always suck and are always compulsion-based themeparks) because of their economical-compulsive properties and EVE only differs so much. Instead of active grinding you're just grinding passively (using your time) so it's at least a slight improvement over regular themepark MMOs."
:spergin:
Danni stark wrote:Jin Ro Chung wrote:Oh well, I've resigned myself to trying to have fun irrespective of the fact that I came to this game 10 years too late. no, you just came to the game with the completely wrong attitude.
In conclusion, this. |
xCassiopiax
Naari LLC
0
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:xCassiopiax wrote:Reuben Johnson wrote:The nature of miners and PvP'ers dont mix. Miners are not going to make a huge exodus to null to set up the large-scale mining ops that CCP invisions for null without some protection. PvP'ers arent going to sit around all day twitteling thumbs hoping someone might attack the mining op their protecting. There will be some who go and find some success, but most wont go, or quickly turn around and head home to Hi.
As for people suggesting null PvP'ers bring their mining alts back to null, I doubt it. They mine in hi so theycan afk while they PvP their main. They won't be able to do that if they have to babysit their mining alt. The ones that do go, would be dedicated miners, who are awake at the keyboard chatting up while mining. Question is, how long will they stay when they become a primary target with no protection from the crp they mine for? ^^ This, this upcoming patch will benefit miners that are already established in null. how many already established miners in null rely on the safety of hidden belts for protection against roaming gangs? With this change that protection will be gone. Fozzie says this protection will need to be replaced by the corp/alliance combat pilots(PVPers) protecting the mining fleets. That is not going to happen. Currently established miners in null will see there risk going up 1000% with only a small boost to profits. If anything this will drive a lot of those established miners out of null sec.
I use to mine solo in Syndicate, and never once lost a Mack or Hulk. You just have to be smart about it. Actually mining in a big fleet is the worst thing you can do because it will draw gank fleets and afkers galore. Nobody is gonna afk a solo mack or hulk. From my experience your better off solo mining in null with an alt watching the other side of the gate.
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