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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please, please talk to one of the w-space CSMs (old or new) and work closely with them in implementing the new system. It's quite obvious that the person designing these changes does not do a lot of scanning in game.
1. Preserve the feature that the scan result list can be copy-pasted. Even if it shows only bars in the game, selecting and copying it should give us the readout we currently get, including result strength numbers. Why is this important? Because many of us use chain-mapping sites that accept this input and populate the sig list, so we only have to do one scan and copy-paste the results instead of typing in every sig individually. If you remove this feature, the new system will be worse for us than what we have now, regardless of what other changes you make.
2. Change the hotkeys, for god's sake. As mentioned, alt+shift toggles the language settings on windows systems, so it's an absolute no-no. Also really awkward to use. Why does pressing just Alt not do anything anymore? It's the obvious choice for adjusting the distance between probes.
You should keep the current hotkeys as there is no reason to change them really. Alt for adjusting distance between probes, Shift for adjusting probe scan range.
3. Why only 7 probes? You really need to talk to some good scanners if you think that 7 probes is all we need. Yes, most people use 7 or less, but most people suck at scanning. They think they are good scanners because they can find every signature. A good scanner is a FAST scanner. Please talk to Jack Miton and let him explain to you why we need 8 probes, hmkay? If anything, you should change it so we can use 9 probes...
4. Why is the sorting of results gone? Sometimes I want to sort by strength, sometimes by type or sig id. Please bring this back.
To end this on a positive note: I like that many things that required fiddly clicking and multiple key presses now work by just dragging the mouse. Also that brackets do not get in the way anymore.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wow, I just realized that they also changed sig sizes or probe strength. I can scan to 25% what used to be size-10s with the default formation and 8 AU scan range, using a mediocre-skilled alt and none of the new scanning mods. On TQ I'd have to go down to 2 AU probe range to do that. This should speed up sweeping systems a lot. I think I like it 
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Wow, I just realized that they also changed sig sizes or probe strength. I can scan to 25% what used to be size-10s with the default formation and 8 AU scan range, using a mediocre-skilled alt and none of the new scanning mods. On TQ I'd have to go down to 2 AU probe range to do that. This should speed up sweeping systems a lot. I think I like it
I just got a w-space data site (=radar) to >25% by going directly from 8 AU to 2 AU and not even touching the keyboard, just dragging the mouse. Scanning is going to be really easy and fast.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
David Campbell wrote:Being able to filter signatures by types (data, relics, gas, etc...) even though the percentage to identify them isn't reached yet is a bit overpowered.
I can warp into system, launch probes in wide formation and via the filters, I know in a few seconds what kind of sites are in systems and how many of each types. Talk about dumbing things down.
How do you do that? I don't think this is the case.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:He stated earlier they aren't reimbursing SP difference due to multiplier change. WHAT?
There is no multiplier change.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
435
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
People complaining specifically about the DSP removal have not understood the new system. DSPs are now in fact useless.
You want to look for new signatures? The new sensor overlay will show them even without any probes launched.
You want to sort sigs? You can do that almost as well with a combat probe, and with probing becoming extremely easy and fast there is really no need anyway. In a system with 40 sigs 20-30 of them will show their group on your first 8 AU scan.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
435
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
You are right, I forgot about pvp scanning. I use DSPs like that myself sometimes.
In any case, there is simply no reason to remove them. It's not like they use server resources or anything.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
435
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think there is more consideration behind the changes than many here realize.
CCP decided that scanning should become easier and faster in general. It's legitimate to disagree with this goal, but that is what they want. I for my part support this goal because I believe it can bring more players into w-space who are now put off because they don't like scanning. It may also lead to more connections and thus more activity in w-space because people will open more wormholes in the same amount of time spent on scanning.
Scanning has become faster and easier in general. But it is wrong or at least premature to say that personal skill has become irrelevant. There will probably still be ways to get an edge compared to a bad scanner. That everyone will be faster than now does not mean that everyone will be equally fast.
The limit of 7 probes may be justified because with 8, probing would have become even faster and easier. It makes little sense to complain that scanning is now too easy and then demand to get more probes. Keep in mind that with the changed skills, everyone would be able to launch 8 probes, not only those with good skills.
After several hours of testing, I am quite positive towards this change GÇô if some issues are resolved before release.
But, the removal of DSPs is at least unnecessary. They should remain in game.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
447
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Posted - 2013.05.13 13:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Regarding removing the DSP GÇô the DSP basically allowed people to quickly get a picture of everything in the system (including ships), in a kind of a GÇ£cheatingGÇ¥ way as it didnGÇÖt really use the probe scan system (no triangulation or anything). This and the heavy overlap with the Sensor Overlay system made us decide to remove them. There are other ways to find/track ships in systems; apart from the D-Scan, there are also the combat probes, which really are there to do what the DSP just did better.
This is a valid reason for removing them. You should have given that from the start instead of just asserting that they will be removed because they had become useless ;)
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.15 09:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
The amount of whining and bitter tears in this thread is horrible. Half of the people giving 'feedback' didn't even read the known issues list. Why don't you morons get out of the thread and let the people give real feedback who are actually interested in getting the game improved?
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.15 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Updates sound very nice, I think this feature will be great :)
ISquishWorms wrote:CCP asked for constructive feed back on the new expansion they plan to roll out, there are lots in this thread providing just that. Where is yours?
Further up, buried between a couple hundred whine posts :p
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 09:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just so you devs don't think players are unanimous in hating that the probe positioning is now at the system center by default: I very much like this change. Every prober starts scanning a system from the center outwards, because most of the planets are usually clustered in the center and thus most signatures are there. That CCP has made this change shows that the person who made that actually plays the game and knows how explorers work.
The far less common case of combat probing on your grid or very close to your ship may involve moving your probes once... big deal 
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 10:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:"every prober" thats total bullshit, you maybe the cookie cutters aka 60%, but you just pulled that out of your ar*e, probes and probing to those that do it daily relies on personal preference, confirming unwanted known sigs and removing them, that is not done with a super probe or from the centre.
All this abortive attempt shows is they want to reinvent from scratch instead of upgrade and refine using existing known reliable systems, they don-¦t explore they play at it sometimes and only at a rookie or basic level as they do not have the time to invest at work or at home to be proficient in it and make isk.
they really are raging against those who took to the profession, which has become devalued due to over supply of rewards, and the increased competition who at low skill levels get ar*e mopped by elite players who have invested months in skills (which get thrown away and not compensated for), they cant get it to work so they are changing it to how they think they can work it and overlay some shiny shiny to keep the morons happy.
Ok maybe I shouldn't have said "everyone". But certainly your pov isn't representative of everyone either.
I spend maybe ~70% of my play time scanning and have probed down 1500 signatures in the last 3 months alone (yes I use a tool that counts this automatically :p). So I'm not a casual scanner I think.
The new system is *not* reinventing anything from scratch, scanning still works the same in principle. It just becomes faster for everyone, which means that a bad scanner will be faster than now, but a good scanner will be even faster than the bad scanner. And I love this change. Because while I love scouting and exploration, it is more for what I will find (pvp hopefully, or at least nice pve sites) than for the scanning itself. Which is okay, but not so exciting that I want to spend hours on it everyday I play EVE, as I do currently.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
So the T2 scanning modules now require the corresponding skill at level V GÇô so much for the secondary skills now being useless  I like it.
Also their effect was greatly reduced, the pinpointing module now grants -25% deviation instead of -40%. Probably reasonable.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
I just found a 1% sig in k-space so they are not gone.
Maybe we should have a slider for how many probes to launch, and if it is less than seven, the formations are not available, instead the launched probes will just sit all in one spot. (I assume it would be hard to make sensible formations for any possible number of probes launched.)
Personally I have no problem with the 8-or-nothing. Previously you were screwed if you only had 3 or less probes with you, now that number has changed to 8. No difference at all. Just bring always at least 20 probes, there is no reason at all to fly with less. Ever.
Chris Winter wrote:Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation.
Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sulvorati Kunoki wrote:
I have no problem scanning everything with 5 probes on TQ and I'm pretty f''ing hot at it due to practice over three or four years. I am talking about pve scanning in a wormhole here. The people who are using 8 probes are doing different pvp related things i imagine.
Nope. You may think you are fast but you are not, if you only use 5 probes. While you may achieve similar speed in resolving a single signature, you will definitely need more time sweeping an entire system with ~5 or more sigs if you do not use 8 or at least 7 probes. This is a fact, because with 5 probes you cannot cover enough space and need to upsize your probes after almost every resolved signature to find the next one, then downsize again to pin it down.
With the new system where all probes are started at once, using 8 will be even more superior because it does not take more time to launch the additional probes and set them up, which currently can make using 8 probes inefficient if there are only very few sigs in the system (for example, if I just want to scan the new static after the old one has despawned or was rolled, I often use only 5 probes as well.)
It is true however that those who only used 5 or even 4 probes (lol) should be allowed to continue their inefficient ways so we good probers can rightfully feel that we are superior players. I don't want everyone to be forced to be good, people have a right to suck at EVE.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
452
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Posted - 2013.05.17 08:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:
I don't think you read what he said closely enough before agreeing with it.
I use 8 probes on my scanning alt in two groups of four to do exactly what you're talking about.
He says 'all the best' use 8, but only in a single formation, IE, just like it is right now on SiSi.
If you have two separate formations of four, you have to move them separately. You cannot even use the alt/shift key to move them all together. Which means you are horribly slow. Try for yourself and stop-clock the time you spend between scans on repositioning your probes. If it's more than five seconds maximum, you are really bad, mhkay? But please, keep on thinking that you are doing it right :)
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
462
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Posted - 2013.05.24 20:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Olari Vanderfall wrote:I am losing hope that the changes will actually make it easier to arrange probes how I want. They will definitely force me into using an inferior probe layout because it is such a pain to move from the default layout.
Why is that? I experimented with how quickly I can modify the spread formation into my old flat 8-probe layout and I find that it's almost as quick as before. With a little practice you should be able to remake your favorite formation quickly.
It's a little annoying that the center probes are now higher/lower than the other probes, but it's not too hard to correct that.
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