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Del369	Posted - 2005.10.08 11:46:00 - [1] just wondering if this is on the cards for some future date, 3rd person is teh sux0or3, i'd love to be able to fly first person with joystick (scuse teh pun) :)
Asestorian	Posted - 2005.10.08 11:49:00 - [2] Never gonna happen in EVE, its just not what it's designed for I'm afraid.. You could always try SWG JTL if you really wanted that kinda play. Originally by: Oveur I do not recall having intellectual intercourse with Paint.
Del369	Posted - 2005.10.08 14:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Asestorian Never gonna happen in EVE, its just not what it's designed for I'm afraid.. You could always try SWG JTL if you really wanted that kinda play. not a chance shoebox shooters just dont cut it, thing is they probably could do it in eve, bit of a redesign, i'll keep wishing a n00bies wishes :)
Rodge	Posted - 2005.10.08 16:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Del369 thing is they probably could do it in eve, bit of a redesign, i'll keep wishing a n00bies wishes :) It's more than a "bit of a redesign". It's a complete redesign of Eve and it's almost certain to never happen. [ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.10.08 20:11:00 - [5] Clearly, you have no future as a game designer. How would joystick flight be applicable to the game mode of Eve? What would the benefit be? What would the alternative to joystick flight be? Are you even aware that such a suggestion is so freaking disconnected from all sort of reality it is just too sad of me to even bother explaining why? As I said, no future.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2005.10.08 20:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Clearly, you have no future as a game designer. How would joystick flight be applicable to the game mode of Eve? What would the benefit be? What would the alternative to joystick flight be? Are you even aware that such a suggestion is so freaking disconnected from all sort of reality it is just too sad of me to even bother explaining why? As I said, no future. QFT --------------------------------- KORKY Is Recruiting now! Convo me for More Details.
Del369	Posted - 2005.10.08 21:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Clearly, you have no future as a game designer. How would joystick flight be applicable to the game mode of Eve? What would the benefit be? What would the alternative to joystick flight be? Are you even aware that such a suggestion is so freaking disconnected from all sort of reality it is just too sad of me to even bother explaining why? As I said, no future. if i'd even remotely suggested a future as a game designer you might just have a point.
Caldorous	Posted - 2005.10.08 22:25:00 - [8] Edited by: Caldorous on 08/10/2005 22:25:39 THIS GAME IS NOT A FIGHTER (combat) SIMULATOR so the joystick is pointless. Why do you want a joystick? The turrets shoot where is the target automatically and not in direction to the front of your ship, always at full speed since they are automatic... and this ships are soposed to be like the star trek ships, (as in star wars are known as capital ships) so they are not soposed to be piloted by one pilot using a joystick (although for a strange technology we are piloting the ship more or less alone and by ourselves) ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
Betelgeuze	Posted - 2005.10.08 23:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Clearly, you have no future as a game designer. How would joystick flight be applicable to the game mode of Eve? What would the benefit be? What would the alternative to joystick flight be? Are you even aware that such a suggestion is so freaking disconnected from all sort of reality it is just too sad of me to even bother explaining why? As I said, no future. A JS would be a great replacement for the stupid double-click navigation we have to live with. Double-clicks that always seems to fail because you will hit within 200 pixels from some stupid icon representing an object some 60 AU away :/ Btw, S! del :) Are you on an extended leave from WWII?
Del369	Posted - 2005.10.08 23:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Caldorous Edited by: Caldorous on 08/10/2005 22:25:39 THIS GAME IS NOT A FIGHTER (combat) SIMULATOR so the joystick is pointless. Why do you want a joystick? The turrets shoot where is the target automatically and not in direction to the front of your ship, always at full speed since they are automatic... and this ships are soposed to be like the star trek ships, (as in star wars are known as capital ships) so they are not soposed to be piloted by one pilot using a joystick (although for a strange technology we are piloting the ship more or less alone and by ourselves) tbh 3rd person sux sweaty donleys nuts simply put, dealable because this is an excellent game, but it still sux one the less.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.08 23:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Del369 Originally by: Caldorous Edited by: Caldorous on 08/10/2005 22:25:39 THIS GAME IS NOT A FIGHTER (combat) SIMULATOR so the joystick is pointless. Why do you want a joystick? The turrets shoot where is the target automatically and not in direction to the front of your ship, always at full speed since they are automatic... and this ships are soposed to be like the star trek ships, (as in star wars are known as capital ships) so they are not soposed to be piloted by one pilot using a joystick (although for a strange technology we are piloting the ship more or less alone and by ourselves) tbh 3rd person sux sweaty donleys nuts simply put, dealable because this is an excellent game, but it still sux one the less. EVE is supposed to be more like Homeworld than a fighter sim. -- Proud member of the [23].
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.10.09 05:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Betelgeuze A JS would be a great replacement for the stupid double-click navigation we have to live with. You do realize that changing the controls in that manner would mean we're switching genres? You're asking System of a Down to change into black metal, really. Basically, the pro-joystick followers are using the following logic : "Sausage tastes so good, Im gonna eat it with my cereals dipped in chocolate water.".
F'nog	Posted - 2005.10.09 06:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Del369 Originally by: Caldorous Edited by: Caldorous on 08/10/2005 22:25:39 THIS GAME IS NOT A FIGHTER (combat) SIMULATOR so the joystick is pointless. Why do you want a joystick? The turrets shoot where is the target automatically and not in direction to the front of your ship, always at full speed since they are automatic... and this ships are soposed to be like the star trek ships, (as in star wars are known as capital ships) so they are not soposed to be piloted by one pilot using a joystick (although for a strange technology we are piloting the ship more or less alone and by ourselves) tbh 3rd person sux sweaty donleys nuts simply put, dealable because this is an excellent game, but it still sux one the less. You REALLY do have a preoccupation with gonads, don't you? I'd see somebody about that. It can't be healthy. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
Telekon	Posted - 2005.10.09 13:13:00 - [14] Edited by: Telekon on 09/10/2005 13:15:21 It's worth differentiating between joystick control (which doesn't really fit in an RPG) and first-person view. While I wouldn't want to engage in combat in a*****pit view, immersion while traveling and mining would be enhanced with a first-person, in-the-cockpit option IMHO. Edit: this automated swear-word filter is silly.
Asestorian	Posted - 2005.10.09 15:33:00 - [15] You are failing to understand what EVE is. EVE, isn't JUST combat, though it is a part. Also, Joystick controls, suddenly means EVE has to have, not only a complete redesign of the engine and stuff, but of the backstory too, which... well tbh is just stupid and pointless, simply because some people want to play an FPS in space instead of EVE. Originally by: Oveur I do not recall having intellectual intercourse with Paint.
Betelgeuze	Posted - 2005.10.09 18:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan Originally by: Betelgeuze A JS would be a great replacement for the stupid double-click navigation we have to live with. You do realize that changing the controls in that manner would mean we're switching genres? You're asking System of a Down to change into black metal, really. Basically, the pro-joystick followers are using the following logic : "Sausage tastes so good, Im gonna eat it with my cereals dipped in chocolate water.". Switching genres? Howcome? All I'm saying is that we would get a better way to change direction. One that actually would work .. If adding JS support is all that bad, just allow us to turn using the arrow keys :/ I'm fed up trying to turn and fail because I'm hitting a hotspot for a remote gate instead of clear sky.
Solar Sailor	Posted - 2005.10.09 18:40:00 - [17] Edited by: Solar Sailor on 09/10/2005 18:41:20 There is NO ****pit - therefore no first person Read some of the great background to find out why. (though maybe if/when Jove come out we'll get their funky hull sensor cotrol to replace Camera drone ) edit - ohh and no joystick, because these are multi million tonne ships, not some sort of fighter ------- Bringer of Squirrelly Wrath - Foaminian Card Cult
Jebediah	Posted - 2005.10.09 19:07:00 - [18] http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/apr01-02.asp That's why.
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2005.10.09 19:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Del369 Originally by: Caldorous Edited by: Caldorous on 08/10/2005 22:25:39 THIS GAME IS NOT A FIGHTER (combat) SIMULATOR so the joystick is pointless. Why do you want a joystick? The turrets shoot where is the target automatically and not in direction to the front of your ship, always at full speed since they are automatic... and this ships are soposed to be like the star trek ships, (as in star wars are known as capital ships) so they are not soposed to be piloted by one pilot using a joystick (although for a strange technology we are piloting the ship more or less alone and by ourselves) tbh 3rd person sux sweaty donleys nuts simply put, dealable because this is an excellent game, but it still sux one the less. EVE is supposed to be more like Homeworld than a fighter sim. nah i think eve is more like Nexus - The Jupiter Incident ( damn i love that gane :)) i ♥♥♥ my domi
Pwyle Kenobi	Posted - 2005.10.10 05:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Del369 just wondering if this is on the cards for some future date, 3rd person is teh sux0or3, i'd love to be able to fly first person with joystick (scuse teh pun) :) Sacrilege and blasphemy! The horror! Oh, the horror.
Joshua Deakin	Posted - 2005.10.12 10:11:00 - [21] Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 12/10/2005 10:13:24 Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 12/10/2005 10:12:26 I would be pleased just with the first person view and FOV, if for nothing else than to realize the size differences between objects, adds to the immersion factor. I just have to echo the suprised thoughts when people saw the comparison picture of different ships elsewhere on the forum. For example, I never realized in game that the Gallente freighter was so immense in size, look so tiny in game.
ArchenTheGreat	Posted - 2005.10.12 11:07:00 - [22] Originally by: Dark Shikari EVE is supposed to be more like Homeworld than a fighter sim. Well, to be correct there was FPP in Homeworld: Cataclysm. You had not control of the ship but you could see from perspective of the pilot. I think limited version of this feature could be fine in EVE when frapsing fights. You could issue command "Look at this ship with pilot eyes" and since then look from over the nose of the ship. No control of course - just like in "Look at" command.
Solar Sailor	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:09:00 - [23] Edited by: Solar Sailor on 12/10/2005 12:10:36 Originally by: ArchenTheGreat "Look at this ship with pilot eyes" The pilot is inside an armoured egg with no windows, how would looking at your goo filled surroundings be of benefit to a frapser? ------- Bringer of Squirrelly Wrath - Foaminian Card Cult
Joshua Deakin	Posted - 2005.10.12 13:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Joshua Deakin on 12/10/2005 13:26:33 Originally by: Solar Sailor Edited by: Solar Sailor on 12/10/2005 12:10:36 Originally by: ArchenTheGreat "Look at this ship with pilot eyes" The pilot is inside an armoured egg with no windows, how would looking at your goo filled surroundings be of benefit to a frapser? Cybernetic "eyes" or cameras in the hull perhaps... if you really want to split hairs. Or how is it possible the current situation that you can circle around an object which is 30km away. Or zoom to a tactical overhead view without a "robot or the like" flying above, and why does "up" and "down" exist in EVE in the first place? Edit, view Pilot point of view? Because looking miniatyres all day is boring...
Charlie3	Posted - 2005.10.12 18:36:00 - [25] Quote: Btw, S! del :) Are you on an extended leave from WWII? Bunch of us are on leave... nice game ya got here.
Namdor	Posted - 2005.10.12 18:57:00 - [26] Quote: Cybernetic "eyes" or cameras in the hull perhaps... if you really want to split hairs. Or how is it possible the current situation that you can circle around an object which is 30km away. Or zoom to a tactical overhead view without a "robot or the like" flying above, and why does "up" and "down" exist in EVE in the first place? Step 1. Read previous posts. Step 2. Provide input. Just about everything mentioned in your post was answered in a previous post that provided the backstory segment explaining the POV in Eve. You didn't read it the first time, so it's probably silly to assume that you'll actually bother to read it this time, but you can't fault me for trying: http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/apr01-02.asp
Solar Sailor	Posted - 2005.10.12 19:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Joshua Deakin Cybernetic "eyes" or cameras in the hull perhaps... if you really want to split hairs. Or how is it possible the current situation that you can circle around an object which is 30km away. Or zoom to a tactical overhead view without a "robot or the like" flying above, and why does "up" and "down" exist in EVE in the first place? Edit, view Pilot point of view? Because looking miniatyres all day is boring... You need to read up on camera drones. They gave up on hull mounted camera systems because it made pod pilots feel disorientated. As for the up and down, again these are more for human orientation than anything, we are used to navigating nice planets where there is only very little upward/downward motion. It will take centuries to beat that out of our collective minds. So an up/down reference (even in space) helps local manual navigation. ------- Bringer of Squirrelly Wrath - Foaminian Card Cult
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2006.02.20 13:42:00 - [28] Hey sorry to dig this up guys, but I was thinking about this and there are a few problems with implementing such a feature. You say: But why can I not use cursor keys or a joystick to move my ship? From the obvious points stated, the turrets auto-track and are not fixed to the front of the ship. Another point people did not mention, is the amount of network messages cursor keys or a joystick would incur. The 'double click to go' method only requires the server knowing which direction the player wants to travel in. The 'control with cursor or joystick' would have a constant stream of messages being sent to the server. Just wanted to make that point in case anyone else does a search for this :)
Flicky G	Posted - 2006.02.20 14:00:00 - [29] Edited by: Flicky G on 20/02/2006 14:01:36 /what he said
Green Master	Posted - 2006.02.20 14:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Green Master on 20/02/2006 14:03:15 Hey, Joystick: No 1st Person: Well, I don't think the inside of a pod warants it. Do you? But at the same time, clicking a 2d space which represents 3d needs a clever implementation. I wouldn't want the third dimension implemented as it is in homeworld, but the 'click - no not that way' dance is the only thing in eve which winds me up. Just my 2ISK
Riku Suzuki	Posted - 2006.02.20 14:14:00 - [31] Well again the thing is that EVE is not supposed to be a space simulation, it's supposed to a an MMORPG in a space setting. And therefore the flying abilities should be more closely tied to the character's skills than the out of game skills of the player (unlike a space sim, which is exactly the opposite). So I tend to think that the point and click approach is pretty egalitarian in that anyone can do it pretty much equally well, and it doesn't depend much on out of game skill.
Lillith Blackheart	Posted - 2006.02.20 14:28:00 - [32] Two comments: 1. I wish we could just right-click on an empty spot in space and click "move", and thusly fix the double-click propblem. 2. (THIS IS NOT A COMMENT IMPLYING I WANT TO USE A JOYSTICK HERE!! If I did, I'd go back to playing IWar2) Quote: It will take centuries to beat that out of our collective minds. So an up/down reference (even in space) helps local manual navigation. One of the things that differentiates a lot of people who are good at the SCS (space-combat sims) are that they can suspend the "up/down" frame of reference being in relation to a "static" location to up being wherever the Z axis is at any given time, whether laying down or not. Those types tend to excell from the get-go, usually pulling off some absolutely insane-lookin maneuvers until they crash into a planet. My favorite part of IWar2 (as mentioned above, heh!, and least fav, too) was that you could turn off the engines that forced a "friction reference" on you and just use lateral thrusters to pilot your ship. Downside: It only had lateral thrusters, and no verticle. Booo. Me.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.02.20 17:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Telekon Edited by: Telekon on 09/10/2005 13:15:21 It's worth differentiating between joystick control (which doesn't really fit in an RPG) and first-person view. While I wouldn't want to engage in combat in a*****pit view, immersion while traveling and mining would be enhanced with a first-person, in-the-cockpit option IMHO. Mining with Mouse - You sit and stare at a rock. Mining with joystick - You sit and stare at a rock. Travelling with Joystick - You point where you want to go and hit warp, then come out of warp, and point where you want to go and use the throttle, and fly there, and I assume you would then have to actually bother flying round the proper side of the stargates and docking at stations and all that malarkey. Travelling with Mouse - You open the map browser, select destination, hit autopilot, then go make a cup of coffee and a sandwich. Hmm.....mouse for the win then. Besides, joysticks give me RSI.
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.02.20 18:32:00 - [34] Even with all the negetive coments to the OP, I too would like to see the ability to control your ship in a better way they we currently have. I'm not saying get rid of the way turrents work, becuase that's part of the game play, but I'd like for immersions(sp?) sake to be able to direct where my ship goes a little more intuitively then with the damned mouse clicked. hell, even something like was used in Freelancer. I want to be able to move among ships more easily. I know it'll never happen, as that's not what they want. But someday they'll make it possible in some MMO Space game.. - - - - Q: Can I change skills without logging in or Que skills? A: no. to both. End of story. Q: Wheres the Search button on the forums? A: There isn't one. go here. www.eve-search.com
TiraX	Posted - 2006.02.20 20:02:00 - [35] "First person", basicly a camera infront of the ship would be nice. And sure a*****pit would be awesome but it's not eve. The game you (and me, and many others) is not eve and has not arrived yet. ---- No brain, No pain
Kaffeine	Posted - 2006.02.20 20:34:00 - [36] As someone stated earlier, the constant stream of packets required for turning with a joystick would bog down the server. Besides, the ships don't turn instantly. You upgrade skills to be able to turn faster. That said, I do agree the interface could use some work. Double clicking to move in a direction sucks, especially when you click on an object instead of somewhere in space.
MrTripps	Posted - 2006.02.20 21:09:00 - [37] I'm not sure how a joystick would work in Eve. Maybe as a new kind of ship that is fully manual? A manually guided missle? One thing that does annoy me is that the game does not remember camera distance between docks. I like to be zoomed out so I can see what is going on. Still, everytime I undock I have to use the scroll wheel to get the camera back to the same distance I like. I would rather that it would remember the camera distance I docked with.
Tony Fats	Posted - 2006.02.20 21:10:00 - [38] You're not the pilot, you're actually strapped into a cocoon with a bunch of wires processing your thoughts.
Lillith Blackheart	Posted - 2006.02.21 13:38:00 - [39] I agree heartily with the "I'd like it to save the Camera Position when I dock". That would be joyous. And wouldn't take much for it to save to the cache. But I'd like to repeat that all of the movement issues people have would EASILY be correct by, instead of just the double-click option, you could just right-click anywhere in space and select "move" or "approach" and have it go that way, because the biggest double-clicking problem is the latency, you just click a thousand times to get it to move. OR you end up 1pixel too close to something. Even being able to right-click on a distant planet or structure and chose "move" instead of "warp to" would be great. Down with double-clicking, up with right-click menus! Me.
Gornax Garrul	Posted - 2006.02.22 17:48:00 - [40] One possible compromise might be to have a mode (similar to CTL-F9) that puts you at the ship's center of gravity, disables your ship graphic, and disables the on screen hot spots. That way you could just rotate around and double click for the "go thataway" command. As far as EVE goes, I like 3rd person for the additional situational awareness that it gives, particularly with the tactical overlay. ** People like you make me want to access your brain and type "rm -rf /*"
Aendaan	Posted - 2006.02.26 09:11:00 - [41] the simple answer (maybe not coding, but to stick the the core of the game 'vision') would be to implement something akin to a spherical overlay to your ship and be able to use an axis-type of arrow to move
Yilan Cheran	Posted - 2006.02.26 12:23:00 - [42] First person view does not really sound all that useful (although I would kind of like to see what the inside of a pod looks like ;) ) Joystick might, in some rare cases be nice, for example when you are inside a hollow asteroid and are trying to worm your way out of it... That takes a little too much doubleclicking for my taste, atm. Or of course it would help if there were no cargo containers or structures inside hollow asteroids- or if I weren't so greedy.
F'nog	Posted - 2006.02.26 13:50:00 - [43] Edited by: F''nog on 26/02/2006 13:51:47 Originally by: Yilan Cheran (although I would kind of like to see what the inside of a pod looks like ;) ) Step 1 - Close your eyes. There. Now you know what the inside of a pod looks like. Note - for the optimal experience, you should submerge yourself in a large vat of Jell-o. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
Adira Saxx	Posted - 2006.02.26 19:46:00 - [44] Edited by: Adira Saxx on 26/02/2006 19:48:13 First Person View: Technically, this should be rather easy to implement. It's just a matter of adding a keyboard shortcut or something to flip between normal camera mode and "stuck on the bow" camera mode. Is it useful? Hell no. It would make pretty neat movies though - sticking the camera on the nose of a Hammerhead that's engaging a battleship... (And since everything we see on screen is technically a VR-world projected to us inside our pods, moving the camera around doesn't in any way conflict with the theme of the game.) Joystick Control: Joystick, or any other form of direct control over the ship, be it via mouse, keyboard or shoving your fingers into a usb port is not going to happen - because of the game design. The reason we can have 200 people in one system, and 20,000 people on the same cluster is simple: the data that needs to be exchanged between clients and servers are kept at a bare minimum. As someone said, you tell the server "make me go that way" and the server goes "ok" and your ship starts to turn. On a laggy day, it may take 3 seconds for the ship to actually respond, but that's ok; we are captains - not pilots. Imagine having 3 second lag when trying to steer by joystick. You'd fly like a drunken monkey on drugs. Implementing direct control of the ship would mean we have to 1) magically reduce internet lag by 500-ish percent 2) eliminate server lag 3) upgrade CCPs internet to support a data feed from the clients that's about 100 times greater than it currently is and 4) give CCP access to a new breed of supercomputers to handle the data. There is a reason you can't have 10,000 people on a single tribes, quake or doom server. It simply can't be done currently - especially when the server is in Europe and some players are in Japan. Haveing the entire world on one server means that it must be rather insensitive to lag - like EvE is. And now, if anyone is about to comment that, "hey, WoW has first person view and direct control!" you need to remember that WoW has hundreds of servers, in the US, Europe and Asia - and even though the players are all playing on servers close to home, with a small number of players on each server - lag is still a major issue. You see players teleporting back and forth as the servers desperately try to cope with the client's lagged out data. This is an issue that doesn't exist in EvE - because it was designed in a fundamentally different way. I'd love to find a first person-space-sim mmorpg. There just isn't one yet, and EvE can't become one. A.S.
Doom Pickle	Posted - 2006.02.27 02:42:00 - [45] I read most of this post, so I hope this hasn't been covered yet, but in Earth and Beyond, you could "drag" your ship with the mouse in the direction you wanted to steer, but the turrets still auto-locked. There was an orbit function, if I remember correctly, and between the two, you could just about play the way you wanted to, switching between the two styles as was best for the situation. They also had a pretty sweet in*****pit view to accompany the action.
Doom Pickle	Posted - 2006.02.27 02:44:00 - [46] You can't say***pit? what the hell is up with that? **pit...eh? will that work?
Doom Pickle	Posted - 2006.02.27 02:46:00 - [47] roosterpit...there, is that ok? too vague? bah, I'm tired...sorry for the x3 posting, but I had to get that out.

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