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Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.10 10:51:00 -
[1]
We all know now that carriers will be out before the end of this year, but we still dont have any idea what they will be capable of apart from XL Drones.
The XL drones will mainly, as stated in E-ON, be anti BS drones that can do quite a large amount of damage with the right skills, but what else can a carrier do?
Ideas:
1- Seige Shielding: carriers should have the ability to become a battle platform while large scale fleet battles are going on. It should be able to magnify its shields to encompas a larger area such as a POS shield.
2- Repairing: While inside the shield your cap should recharge at double the rate and the carrier should be able to repair armour and hull quite quickly, basically making it a portable repair station.
3- Gang Boosts: It should be allowed to use the gang modules, up to 3 at a time.
What do you think?
Discuss.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.10 10:55:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
1- Seige Shielding: carriers should have the ability to become a battle platform while large scale fleet battles are going on. It should be able to magnify its shields to encompas a larger area such as a POS shield.
So long as you can't shoot outside of the shield when in it, like a POS shield, then sure.
I think CCP said they were trying to do this in E-On anyway.
Quote:
2- Repairing: While inside the shield your cap should recharge at double the rate and the carrier should be able to repair armour and hull quite quickly, basically making it a portable repair station.
They said this too.
Quote:
3- Gang Boosts: It should be allowed to use the gang modules, up to 3 at a time.
And this, I think.
Well, that was a short discussion! CCP could well be doing all of those things. Yay. \o/
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Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.10 10:58:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Quote:
1- Seige Shielding: carriers should have the ability to become a battle platform while large scale fleet battles are going on. It should be able to magnify its shields to encompas a larger area such as a POS shield.
So long as you can't shoot outside of the shield when in it, like a POS shield, then sure.
I think CCP said they were trying to do this in E-On anyway.
Quote:
2- Repairing: While inside the shield your cap should recharge at double the rate and the carrier should be able to repair armour and hull quite quickly, basically making it a portable repair station.
They said this too.
Quote:
3- Gang Boosts: It should be allowed to use the gang modules, up to 3 at a time.
And this, I think.
Well, that was a short discussion! CCP could well be doing all of those things. Yay. \o/
I just re-read the carrier section and all it mentioned was the fact it would have huge SHIELD and ARMOUR repairing ability's.
Nothing about seige shielding or gang modules.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Snappers
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Quote:
1- Seige Shielding: carriers should have the ability to become a battle platform while large scale fleet battles are going on. It should be able to magnify its shields to encompas a larger area such as a POS shield.
So long as you can't shoot outside of the shield when in it, like a POS shield, then sure.
I think CCP said they were trying to do this in E-On anyway.
Quote:
2- Repairing: While inside the shield your cap should recharge at double the rate and the carrier should be able to repair armour and hull quite quickly, basically making it a portable repair station.
They said this too.
Quote:
3- Gang Boosts: It should be allowed to use the gang modules, up to 3 at a time.
And this, I think.
Well, that was a short discussion! CCP could well be doing all of those things. Yay. \o/
I just re-read the carrier section and all it mentioned was the fact it would have huge SHIELD and ARMOUR repairing ability's.
Nothing about seige shielding or gang modules.
Yup, my bad, it says 'massive shield and energy transfers'. When I first read that I just assumed it meant a big shield and some energy transfers as well. 
But I'm pretty sure it said there was a chance of both Titans and Carriers having gang module capabilities...
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:10:00 -
[5]
I dont think this is open for general disscussion. So why start a thread over somthing you are not involved with? You can talk all you want about it and your thoughts and ideas are about 1 year too late.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |
Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I dont think this is open for general disscussion. So why start a thread over somthing you are not involved with? You can talk all you want about it and your thoughts and ideas are about 1 year too late.
Actually, as far as im aware, the models for the carriers arent finnished yet, therefore development of them hasnt finnished. They allready have the code for POS shields so why not expand that?
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Rufus Roughneck
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:28:00 -
[7]
I see it already.
A massive shield blob around a Carrier which gangwarps this portable 40 million hp-safespot around systems and regions untill it finds a target to unleash its fleet upon.
ahem, let's not.
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.10.10 11:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Snappers
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I dont think this is open for general disscussion. So why start a thread over somthing you are not involved with? You can talk all you want about it and your thoughts and ideas are about 1 year too late.
And are you a programer for CCP? The point is, we the players have very little to do with devlopment of the game. AFTER the item is brought into SISI will we have an input.
So this thread is a waste of space, on a very busy server.
Actually, as far as im aware, the models for the carriers arent finnished yet, therefore development of them hasnt finnished. They allready have the code for POS shields so why not expand that?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.10 12:13:00 -
[9]
Quote:
But I'm pretty sure it said there was a chance of both Titans and Carriers having gang module capabilities...
It does hint about having them as 'leadership enabled' ships in E-ON. Read the last part about leadership in the article again, it's in there. So I guess gang mods will be the order of the day with Carriers.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.10 12:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
I dont think this is open for general disscussion. So why start a thread over somthing you are not involved with? You can talk all you want about it and your thoughts and ideas are about 1 year too late.
Jesus, what's your problem? Everybody here is involved with it, because we all play the game. Go away if you don't want to discuss things that involve the game, because this is the EVE general discussion forum last I checked.
We discuss things in here.
About EVE.
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Musketeer
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:00:00 -
[11]
Well said Nero. I'm with you 100% on this one. I have nothing to say on the discussion, but I won't flame it.
Keep going guys.
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Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:10:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Snappers on 10/10/2005 13:11:03
Let me explain my idea in a bit more depth.
Seige Shielding:
Charge Time - 2.5min
Shield area - X Axis 10km Y Axis 10km
Shield HP - 75.000.000
Resistances:
EM - 55%
Therm - 35%
EXP - 55%
Kin - 45%
(Not taking into effect hardeners - but this is only once the seige shields are up)
Once seige shields are enabled you are unable to move until your shields are taken down or you remove the seige state.
-------
This basically enables a Carrier to get within range of a POS then in relative saftey a few dreads can intiate their cynosaural fields and jump INSIDE the bubble of the carrier - The POS owners will be able to, so attackers should have the same privelage - and a bit more of an advantage since a carrier will cost a damn sight more than a POS.
Well thats what i thought anyway...
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Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Snappers
Edited by: Snappers on 10/10/2005 13:11:03
Let me explain my idea in a bit more depth.
Seige Shielding:
Charge Time - 2.5min
Shield area - X Axis 10km Y Axis 10km
Shield HP - 75.000.000
Resistances:
EM - 55%
Therm - 35%
EXP - 55%
Kin - 45%
(Not taking into effect hardeners - but this is only once the seige shields are up)
Once seige shields are enabled you are unable to move until your shields are taken down or you remove the seige state.
-------
This basically enables a Carrier to get within range of a POS then in relative saftey a few dreads can intiate their cynosaural fields and jump INSIDE the bubble of the carrier - The POS owners will be able to, so attackers should have the same privelage - and a bit more of an advantage since a carrier will cost a damn sight more than a POS.
Well thats what i thought anyway...
So basically you've just stolen a dreads seige mode idea and tried to re-explain it as a carrier. As someone said earlier nothings gonna change what their doing... just sit back relax and wait for their release! 
-----------------------
Join the oveur fan club today and recive an e-flower!
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Snappers
We all know now that carriers will be out before the end of this year,
I do not know this.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:48:00 -
[15]
If "Project Rebirht", is gonna be implemented, then you could stash a clone on a carrier
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.10 13:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Snappers
We all know now that carriers will be out before the end of this year,
I do not know this.
Then you should buy E-ON.
SOE-- I mean, CCP, have said enough times already that if you want to find out anything about the game you play and subscribe to, you also have to subscribe to their crappy specialist magazine.
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.10 14:10:00 -
[17]
Quote:
SOE-- I mean, CCP
Oooo, shame on you. Thats a low blow.
And actually, the devs have hinted as much that they will be out before the years end. On the one hand, they say titans and carriers will be at the start of Kali. On the other they say Kali will be before the end of the year. As such carriers and titans will... well you get the deduction I am making.
And in real terms, carriers today are used as centre pieces of the fleets, and the admirals of today have shifted their focus from having a large battleship as their flag ship to having the carrier. And todays carriers have more command and control and support options available than war ships. Stands to reason that a carrier will be the same with more tactical advantages than offensive power.
And I like the idea in E-ON about them being able to act as a mobile cloning station and a place to refit ships like the POS ship maintenance array. Having one of these just off grid from an enemy POS will be valuable as people can rejoin the battle if their ship is destroyed.
Same as a Titan too, as they will store ships and player (or at least in concept last I heard) and be able to keep stocks of battleships, while carriers are frigate>cruiser focused like a smaller scale titan. (Again, as stated in the concept in E-ON.)
I don't think they will act as a mobile forcefield for the fleet personally, or they become the ultimate gate camper utility even if they cannot target people while in the field. And the aim of these ships is to shift away from gates and such.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.11 07:46:00 -
[18]
Well i must personally admit that the fact that it maybe a mobile shield is a very encouraging thing. Who will want a ship that does nothing but sits outside of a fleet battle with Xlarge drones doing nothing?
It needs a field operation, they are MEANT to be MOBILE stations, stations have shields, why not give this ship a bit more in the sense of defensivness.
Seige Shield mode will be comparable to Seige mode on a Dread apart from the increase in damage output. Instead of that you are able to repair your allies much faster - repair a battleship with one run of a mod? - It should be a flagship, a ship that holds back to make sure the fleet is doing what it should be doing while enabling them to have a safe area to return to should they need it.
I wont compare carriers in real life to ones in eve - there is no point, EvE carriers need a special characteristic and i think seige shields are the way to go. Just look at Titans they get super-weapons, so why not give a carrier the ability to defend itself?
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.11 10:34:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Well i must personally admit that the fact that it maybe a mobile shield is a very encouraging thing. Who will want a ship that does nothing but sits outside of a fleet battle with Xlarge drones doing nothing?
It is all speculation still remember, but I doubt that a capital class ship will die quickly in a battle meaning that it will sit out of grid. I only gave the POS example because it seemed more logical to have the clone/ship refit position out of the firing line. No one wants to board a new ship in range of enemy guns. And I think Dreads are the centre piece for actually sitting siege on a POS.
But in a fleet battle, tactics take a life of their own and I bet they will happily warp in to the frey, given that their drones are more of a threat to other ships.
Quote:
It needs a field operation, they are MEANT to be MOBILE stations, stations have shields, why not give this ship a bit more in the sense of defensivness.
Again, I speculate, but I imagine it's shields will be on a par with those of the dread, perhapse even more. I just say I don't think it will act as a forceshield like a POS has where it protects all ships around it. E-ON says they will make more use of transfer arrays and remote repairers.
But think about it being a POS shield philosophy for a moment. So compare to a POS siege. You have the enemy ships inside the shield where they cannot be targeted, and cannot target you... they are stuck there and the POS takes all the damage. The same will be with the carriers, except their shields will be smaller for the sake of practicality. It will die quick while not being able to mount a defence. It's ships in the field piloted by players would have to move out of the shield to even take part in the battle, and they suddenly become primary and are ganked before they can lock a single guy and get a volley off. The back to the carrier again.
I think it's best if the way they work in a fleet fight becomes more like what we have now, but bigger. Thats where the real tactics come in, again what the Devs are after with these ships and other balances like the Mk2 Project where they define the role of a ship better.
Think about it. Your enemy fleet is there, they have a hand full of battle ships a fleet of assault cruisers and a single carrier... where do you direct your power? At the many enemy ships you know you can crush in short order, but meaning the carrier goes unharmed and able to launch a legion of fighters at you under it's direct control that can chop your fleet up? or at the single carrier that will take all your mustered fire power to kill, but you leave the other players free to move in and play the fight their way?
A mobile force shield would just make that kind of fight pointless because your only target is the Carrier anyway. It becomes less of a choice of which egg to break first, to a game of only one egg to break, followed by the others in that order every time. So boring and carriers will hardly turn the tide of a battle in that sense.
Quote:
Seige Shield mode will be comparable to Seige mode on a Dread apart from the increase in damage output. Instead of that you are able to repair your allies much faster - repair a battleship with one run of a mod? - It should be a flagship, a ship that holds back to make sure the fleet is doing what it should be doing while enabling them to have a safe area to return to should they need it.
Agreed except on the safe area bit for reasons explained above. A siege mode would be good for a carrier too, but only as a means of preserving itself. And the repair allies faster is a good idea too. So it should be called something like 'Logistic Mode' or something instead if thats the main focus.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.11 10:44:00 -
[20]
The biggest guns/launchers the Carrier should be able to fit are cruiser sized. Keep it defensively minded, save for it's drone/fighter/whatever compliment.
As for being the Baby Titan...that might be a good idea.
~Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Biomass fears me. |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.11 10:49:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I wont compare carriers in real life to ones in eve - there is no point, EvE carriers need a special characteristic and i think seige shields are the way to go.
Why not comapre to real life carriers? I don't mean in their ability and eqipment or anything like that, because you can't obviously. But you can compare them to reality in their role. Afterall, where do you think the devs get their ideas for ship roles in the first place. They come form real life military hardware.
Stealth Bombers: Able to get close without being seen on sensors, then unlease large firepower at the expense of being seen (Yes real life stealths are more visable when dropping bombs because the bay doors increase the radar cross section. An F-117 was shot down over Iraq years ago by a missile made in 1965, all because a rivvet on the wing was not fully flushed.)
Interceptors: Able to fly very fast to catch just about anything, but no war they can outgun the big boys. (Like in real life, an F-5 could catch an F-15E, but it would regret it later)
Missile Boats: Yes, in the real nave there are boats with no guns, and just vertical missile slots for long range bombardment. How is the raven in EVE any different to an Aegis class cruiser firing cruise missiles over 100km away? (Except the shields and the fact that a raven dows not float)
You see the point? So why should people not look at modern carriers and the ones in EVE and compare those too?
Modern Carrier:
Fleet centre piece
Command Centre to co-ordinate the fleet assets
Repair centre for its fighters and other ships
able to launch fighters
EVE Carrier
Capital class ship
leadership enabled for gang control
Offers support for repairs to fellow gang members
able to launch fighters
Yes, there are differences as well, because they will have shields (unlike reality) and they will have energy weapons (unlike reality) and they fly (unlike reality) but thats ability. I comapre them for their role, not their looks, or ability.
Sorry if that seemed to go on, but I dislike the whole 'This is a Sci-Fi game, why should it be realistic?' nonsence. Why did they have a back story then? Why are ships being given roles? Why don't all weapons do max damage to everything every time? Why do they employ a guy with a PHd in mathamatical physics to code the game and it's probability engine? yes we can have far fetched stuff like jump drives and warp engines and neutron blasters as well. But it needs a reality to function in too.
Quote:
Just look at Titans they get super-weapons, so why not give a carrier the ability to defend itself?
Again, I agree. Whoever said the carriers would be without shields at all? Just not a shield that can protect everything within it's reach because that would only stale the combat, not enhance it by tipping the balance of priority on battle.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.10.11 11:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 11/10/2005 11:22:51
I wouldn't give carriers any remote boosting abilities, that would only make logistics ships even more worthless.
I would however, create a new mid slot module that repairs drones in the drone bay.
On the ship bonus front, they should all have a bonus to max drones controlled. The other ship bonus would vary by race:
Gallente: +5% damage from Gallente drones per level.
Minmatar: +5% drone range per level or +10% drone velocity per level.
Amarr: +5% drone range per level or +5% drone armour per level
Caldari: +5% drone shields per level.
Some sort of reduction in gang module CPU as per the battlecruisers would not be amiss either, as long as it's not as great as with the battlecruisers.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.11 11:33:00 -
[23]
Quote:
I would however, create a new mid slot module that repairs drones in the drone bay.
Ahmen... gah you amarrians and your infectious religion.
Quote:
Gallente: +5% damage from Gallente drones per level.
Minmatar: +5% drone range per level or +10% drone velocity per level.
Amarr: +5% drone range per level or +5% drone armour per level
Caldari: +5% drone shields per level.
The minmatar one for speed would be better. Rapid docking so you can get out of dodge is more a hit-and-run thing for the minmatar.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Logan Xerxes
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Posted - 2005.10.11 11:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Caldari: +5% drone shields per level.
Yaaaaaaaaay for the useless bonus yet again. CALDARI FOR THE WIN!!!!
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.10.11 11:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Caldari: +5% drone shields per level.
Yaaaaaaaaay for the useless bonus yet again. CALDARI FOR THE WIN!!!!
You're forgetting they will use XL drones.
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Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.11 12:41:00 -
[26]
Darius one single point on your reply made it all pointless. A Carrier (if it had seige shielding) would have MORE shields than a POS. Look at the price differance! Pos 100mil tops Carrier 5-10bil? Possibly more?
If it doesnt have more shields then it is an absolutley un-practical ship. It should be able to hold its own against a full fleet of focused fire for quite some time without having to retreat or eventually be destroyed.
People see carriers as they see battleships, but they are seige platforms, mobile stations and should not in any way shape or form be likened to a battleship or any other ship for that matter.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.11 12:49:00 -
[27]
gang modules and benefits come in the form of battlecruisers. Drone carriers are there purley to deploy XL drones in combat and some armour and tanking abilities - what we need is a large shield recharger - capital ship class somewhere in between a dread and a carrier
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Snappers
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Posted - 2005.10.11 13:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: sonofollo
gang modules and benefits come in the form of battlecruisers. Drone carriers are there purley to deploy XL drones in combat and some armour and tanking abilities - what we need is a large shield recharger - capital ship class somewhere in between a dread and a carrier
You are joking right? The repairer is the Carrier its allready been stated by CCP.
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.10.11 13:21:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Darius one single point on your reply made it all pointless. A Carrier (if it had seige shielding) would have MORE shields than a POS. Look at the price differance! Pos 100mil tops Carrier 5-10bil? Possibly more?
You think because it costs more it will have more shields? Dreads don't have more shields than a POS and they are around the same.
Amarr Dread - 3bil+ isk and 22,500 shields.
Amarr Small tower - 25mil+ isk and 10,000,000
Thats hardly an argument for it having as much shield as a POS.
And again, I never said they should not have a siege mod, in fact I agree with it. What I am saying is that their shields should not cover other ships like a POS shield does. And that a siege mode or something similar would only benefit the carrier directly and the rest of the fleet remotely.
Quote:
People see carriers as they see battleships, but they are seige platforms
Dreads are siege platforms. a few drones, even the XL ones, do not make pratical siege weapons compared to a dreads XL turrets. And E-ON states that there will be more than likely only one turret/missile point capabel to fit an XL weapon, if any at all. How will they be siege platforms?
They will be fleet centre pieces, tough ones at that but mainly for a fleet. And yes, maybe they can assist in a POS fight, but not as the main assault ship.
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Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.10.11 13:49:00 -
[30]
Carriers are going to carry frigates, cruisers, etc., if Rebirth and other dev comments are any indication. I assume they are not going to be able to face Dreadnoughts in battle and be victorious...
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
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