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Ore thiefs finally going to get the GANK

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.11 17:56:00 - [1] not really bothered by the mining side but all cans being tied to a particular player is plain daft as a relatively new player i am currently doing reasonable business following enyos and the like into complexes and sweeping up the cargo cans they leave behind as they progress through the complex as far as i'm aware the ore theft problem came about when players started using jet cans in a novel way - surely if there is now a major probelm with this the easiest and least inhibiting (to everyone else) solution is to prevent jet cans being used in this way if in RL i left my car with engine running outside a shop to speed up my time away from the computer and someone pinched it the insurance company wouldn't pay out - very little difference here as far as it goes - if you are willing to leave unsecured items hanging around then you have to accept that there are always elements in any society RL or RPG that will take advantage preventing me from making a few extra isk as a relative noob doing something that no-one seems to worry about is just overkill (in roid belts miners regularly allow me to scoop any cargo from rats they've blown as its of little use to them) - especially when the situation has developed not from a pirate 'hack' but from a mining one i'm not sure how far towards completion this is but i would seriously reconsider it if i were CCP - possibly going along with something like the larger container with slow decay time idea the miners created the problem so it should be they who 'suffer' to have the problem removed - and if 'suffering' means one or two extra trips per hour then so be it - there'll be short term inflation but the economy will be fine in the long run and the rest of the players in the game can carry on as before
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.11 18:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Melkisadek on 11/10/2005 18:32:48 goldenratio - the problem as i see it is that you are coming at this solely from the point of view of a miner and you seem to care very little about other players sweeping up cargo cans left by players who have no interest in them should NOT be a criminal act picking up cargo left by miners in a roid belt (from rats) after they've left should NOT be a criminal act and taking ore from a non-secured container should NOT be a criminal act - just a slightly morally dubious one there are ways around this from the mining side and those options should be exhausted before criminal flagging is brought into the game for jet cans or does it suddenly become fair game for me to go into a complex and jettison a can with ammo in it and rename it as a complex ammunition container? - you can go on about pop-ups all you want but most reasonably experienced players will have that little 'don't show again' checkbox ticked before you can say "jet can" - should they then be at the mercy of someone because they actually do something in the game other than mine??
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.11 22:54:00 - [3] Originally by: The GoldenRatio After 20 minutes if untouched, jet/loot cans of all types should lose their ownership. There. and how do you suggest CCP change the complex rules to allow me to follow a ship through a complex acceleration gate after 20 mins??? think about it from a non-mining point of view - at the moment the only problem is that MINERS are using jet cans to store ore - the thieving comes from that and nothing else the simple answer is to ban jet can mining - but this would annoy the MINERS who are causing the problem in the first place... basically if you can't secure your containers then you need to up hte price of the goods you sell when it costs you more to buy pre-secured containers - simple economics there should be no in game changes other than the introduction of better secure containers to solve the ore thief problem - the solution is already available
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.12 10:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Melkisadek if in RL i left my car with engine running outside a shop to speed up my time away from the computer and someone pinched it the insurance company wouldn't pay out - very little difference here as far as it goes - if you are willing to leave unsecured items hanging around then you have to accept that there are always elements in any society RL or RPG that will take advantage Insurance company is one thing, they have a financial reason not to pay out. Concord are NOT an insurance company, they are the law enforcer. In your example, if the police caught the guy taking your car, they would STILL prosecute - it is still theft to take something that is not yours, no matter how easily available it appeared to be. in the uk at least the police will also prosecute the owner of the vehicle for leaving it with engine running - so should the miner be flagged as criminally irresponsible for leaving unsecured items lying around as well? anyone with a positive sec status should then be able to shoot at said miner for encouraging lawlessness in empire space - perfect solution methinks
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.12 11:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Quote: anyone with a positive sec status should then be able to shoot at said miner for encouraging lawlessness in empire space - perfect solution methinks Razz is just depressingly stupid. If you follow that logic then I should be able to pod anyone I can because I have bigger guns and they're encouraging me to do it by having smaller guns. Don't fly shuttles.... it was supposed to sound ridiculous because thats what it is - but it is in effect what is going to happen because miners don't seem capable of accepting the fact that an 'exploit' they use to their advantage comes with related problems that they need to solve themselves without the intervention of CCP (except in the case of new style secure containers) nerf jet cans and the problem disappears - as no-one wants that to happen then the solution has to come from the mining angle NOT the thieving angle whether that comes from larger secure containers or flagging the goods themselves as contraband is up to CCP but the currently proposed system introduces far more bad elements than good and adversely affects hundreds of newish players who don't have anything to do with mining or ore theft any fix should be almost invisible to anyone not involved and as i said earlier - if a certain party has to take a hit somewhere then it has to be the miners as they are the ones who ultimately caused the problem the only in game change to other players will then be a hike in prices as the economy re-adjusts
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.12 14:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Cardassius Just make it so that ppl who are not in gang with eachother lose security status with concord every time they take something from a can in high sec space. Many people won't like low security standing with concord so they stop thieving ;) so i should get a sec status hit for being a member of the junk-picker-upperers guild simple answer - nerf the jet cans slightly less simple but still exceedingly simple answer that doesn't change gameplay - introduce a new style of cargo container with large capacity but passwordable slightly less simple but still exceedingly simple answer that does change gameplay - make jet cans ONLY taggable as owned and apply any new rules to those cans only - mark them clearly in the overview and don't tamper with rat/complex drops - i.e. waste a lot of time and effort coding something to let miners get round the ore thief problem THAT THEY CREATED
Melkisadek	Posted - 2005.10.12 17:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Sonreir Edited by: Sonreir on 12/10/2005 15:10:37 Originally by: Melkisadek simple answer - nerf the jet cans So you're cool with paying 200 million for your next battleship? If ore gets harder to mine, then prices for minerals will go up. Also, I don't like the way you seem to pin the problem on the miners. Looking to rationalize your own thieving, eh? Or maybe you're one of those guys that complains about the amount of sec containers floating around as well. You just figure that miners are the root of all evil, huh? How dare they try to earn a few ISK without blowing someone up! if you take the time to read back through th ethread then you'll see exactly what i do for a living in eve and ore theft is certainly not it!! i've also already gone through the fact that a) i don't want to see jet cans nerfed and b) the economy will suffer if they are BUT i still feel that the solution to the ore thief problem has to come from the same mining community that caused the problem in the first place - if the only way to do this is to nerf jet cans then so be it there have been quite a few good suggestions in this thread as to ways around the problem that don't involve flagging non ore-thieves as criminal for going about their daily business in eve - all tose options need exhausting before tinkering with the underlying game mechanic to suit the miners

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