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Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote: Villore GÇô The man who opened fire at a Minmatar cultural festival, killing 59 and wounding 303 others, has been identified as Gerne Broteau and was brought before the Caille District Court today, where he was charged with 59 counts of first degree murder, 362 counts of assault with a deadly weapon, and 12 counts of mayhem with the intent to incite terror, along with numerous other charges.
Broteau has been identified as a man of Gallente ethnicity in good health. He does not have a criminal record prior to his rampage that claimed the life of Sebiestor Tribal Chief Karin Midular. He is being characterized as a loner who worked without accomplice, apparently motivated by a nationalistic, anti-foreigner stance.
He remained under police guard for over a month as a full investigation was launched into his motives and the possibility he was part of a criminal terror cell. However, after repeated attempts at interrogation, no evidence was uncovered that Broteau was working with any other group.
Appearing in restraints in a prison jumpsuit, Broteau stood silent and impassive as the numerous charges against him were read without fanfare. The presiding judge had to request silence twice before the gallery quieted enough to finish reading the charges.
GalNet searches have revealed the Broteau frequented numerous anti-foreigner forums and frequently posted about his hatred of Minmatar immigrants, desire to remove all non-Gallente elements from the Federation, and admiration for the Black Eagles and Director Mentas Blaque. Before becoming the director of the Black Eagles, Mentas Blaque was known as an outspoken leader of the Sociocrats party, which has long espoused isolation and strict immigration controls for the Federation.
The Black Eagles have issued a statement in response to the findings, denouncing Broteau and saying, GÇ£The man does not, never has, and never will have any involvement with the Special Department of Internal Investigations and Federal Security.GÇ¥
Broteau's trial is scheduled to begin on Monday.
== [Source] Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
115
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
This can only end well. Captain Lieutenant Midshipman Ms Lady Dame Dudette Otsito the Third. Lord High Thingamadoodle and Satrapess of the Paper Birds. The One who used to be The Keeper of the Toothbrush Threat Level: lol |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
422
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
See? These gallentean bastards don't want to kill just Caldari, they want to kill everyone who are not Gallente!
Well, I am not really interested in immigration politics of the Federation and what Blaque wanted to do about it, but I would be very content, if they banned emigration from the Federation, so all this gallentean filth remained inside Federal borders. |
Vikarion
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
482
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Well, I am not really interested in immigration politics of the Federation and what Blaque wanted to do about it, but I would be very content, if they banned emigration from the Federation, so all this gallentean filth remained inside Federal borders.
Uh...if you ban all emigration, then the other ethnicities can't get out either. |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5316
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is a distinct difference between the Federation and the actions of its citizens. The manner in which to detemine the position of the Federation is the subsequent lawsuit against the accused, if my understanding is correct.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
928
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 06:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:See? These gallentean bastards don't want to kill just Caldari, they want to kill everyone who are not Gallente!
Because one man represents a multi billion person empire.
Your stupidity knows no bounds. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Larissa Newport
The Black Talons Chapter Company of Spacefarers
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 06:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
What a farce this trial is going to be, mark my words. -- Chaos always wins, it is simply better organized. |
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.05.12 06:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh, that is kind of a twist.
But at least the quadrants are complete now. |
Tarren Vetal
EVE University Ivy League
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 06:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:See? These gallentean bastards don't want to kill just Caldari, they want to kill everyone who are not Gallente!
Don't be ridiculous. The actions of one killer hardly redound to the rest of the Federation.
I hope at least this trial will serve to put an end to some of the more ridiculous speculation that has surrounded this whole affair. If the Gallente administration plays its cards right, it might even be able to appease some of the anger of the Minmatar in the process. |
Adreena Madeveda
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
That's what the Federation was so protective about ? A lone gallente nutcase ? ...................\o\ /o/................... |
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Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
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Posted - 2013.05.12 07:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've got five hundred isk that says he's ex SDII My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
183
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adreena Madeveda wrote:That's what the Federation was so protective about ? A lone gallente nutcase ?
Ayup. Do you see how ridiculous and egotistic Shakor and his Parliament sycophants are now?
If I were Roden, I'd be expecting a letter of pardon after this; but knowing Republic's vanity, that will never happen.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim ___________________________ Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation recruitment open. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
So.
Why exactly could this information not have been released a week or two ago? What was the "national security" that demanded that it be kept, despite the rising emotions?
And where is the statement from Tribal Council?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor Tribe |
Darius Shakor
Second Shakor Clan
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
So this is the reason the Federation were tight lipped? Embarrassed by the factions within your perfect society that seek to attack other cultures within your borders?
Was this really worth antagonising our people over for the last month by keeping us in the dark over the nature of the shooting and even denying our government access to ongoing information?
Gallente vanity at its finest. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
493
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh, goddess, here we go about a Black Eagle conspiracy. Because alienating an ally is totally a unilateral strategic gain. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1128
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote: Was this really worth antagonising our people over for the last month by keeping us in the dark over the nature of the shooting and even denying our government access to ongoing information?
Because the Republic couldn't just trust our government and who could have thought that the Matari leaders are not reasonable people and they would use 15 Naglafar-class dreadnaughts againts us.
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Darius Shakor
Second Shakor Clan
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Darius Shakor wrote: Was this really worth antagonising our people over for the last month by keeping us in the dark over the nature of the shooting and even denying our government access to ongoing information?
Because the Republic couldn't just trust our government and who could have thought that the Matari leaders are not reasonable people and they would use 15 Naglafar-class dreadnaughts againts us.
An initial error in judgement by your government can be forgiven. Sticking to their pig-headed stance after seeing how strongly we feel about this compounds the error further and forgiveness goes by the wayside.
Overall the biggest blow to relations is not the actions of people here but the demonstration that the Gallente truely have no understanding of our culture after all these years. And if the shooter's proposed motivations are anything to go by this is clearly a deeper issue in your own back yard. But I guess it is easier to deflect it all onto us after the fleet crossed over your borders.
If you want me to say it then, yes, I agree they were stupid to do so. Though even without that the damage was being done by your government being completely obstinate. I doubt, though, you will agree. Why waste my breath further. |
Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 08:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote:
An initial error in judgement by your government can be forgiven. Sticking to their pig-headed stance after seeing how strongly we feel about this compounds the error further and forgiveness goes by the wayside.
Overall the biggest blow to relations is not the actions of people here but the demonstration that the Gallente truely have no understanding of our culture after all these years. And if the shooter's proposed motivations are anything to go by this is clearly a deeper issue in your own back yard. But I guess it is easier to deflect it all onto us after the fleet crossed over your borders.
If you want me to say it then, yes, I agree they were stupid to do so. Though even without that the damage was being done by your government being completely obstinate. I doubt, though, you will agree. Why waste my breath further.
Funny that. I would have thought fifteen hostile dreadnoughts were pretty hard to beat as far as "blows to relations" go. After all even if the Gallente were keeping the truth tight to their chest, I would have thought that alone would not justify the deployment of Dreadnought class assets. Yes the Gallente might have been playing fast and loose with the truth but lies by themselves do not kill people. All you tribals needed to do was play a little diplomacy with the Gallente and the matter would have been over in due course, all you needed to do was understand your ally's culture in turn.
Lets not forget, before you start talking about deeper issues in people's back yards, that you may want to get your own house in order before you start commenting on other people's back yards. The scriptures talk of men without sin and casting the first stone, and the Minmatar are certainly not without sin in that regard. My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
1M isk says this "Gerne Broteau" gets assassinated by a "Gallente patriot", before the trial is complete. The patriot will ofc, be suffering from some deadly disease, and will die before any investigation is complete.
The question of conspiracy will then linger like a bad smell for decades to come.
Of course, in the Gallente Federation, as in the Minmatar republic, citizens can freely purchase all manner of small arms and other weapons. In the Empire and State, such arsenals cannot be freely obtained. Instead, only high-tech small arms that have a safety net preventing illegal use, may be purchased by the private citizen. |
Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
635
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:So.
Why exactly could this information not have been released a week or two ago? What was the "national security" that demanded that it be kept, despite the rising emotions?
And where is the statement from Tribal Council?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor Tribe
Quote:He remained under police guard for over a month as a full investigation was launched into his motives and the possibility he was part of a criminal terror cell. However, after repeated attempts at interrogation, no evidence was uncovered that Broteau was working with any other group.
Straight from the article. This is what I've been telling people is the most likely situation; they didn't want to give away any details that might help any co-conspirators disappear or otherwise avoid the authorities. (Not saying it was the best reason, but that's the reason they gave)
Still, I am relieved they have finally begun legal proceedings and with the release of his name. Just please remember to try not to make them more famous than Midular. http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2623
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote:If you want me to say it then, yes, I agree they were stupid to do so. Though even without that the damage was being done by your government being completely obstinate. I doubt, though, you will agree. Why waste my breath further. No. You don't get to do this. You don't get to spit in the face of all the work the Federation has done over the years to help the Minmatar people reclaim their dignity and become a self-sufficient international power, send hostile military forces into our sovereign territory, kill thousands of Navy crewmen aboard starships crewed by officers who gave your forces ample opportunity to retreat without violence and then tell us it's our government's fault for not sharing enough information.
If you continue to maintain that after all this time, the Federation have learnt nothing about the Minmatar, then let me retort that the Minmatar have clearly learned nothing about the Federation. We allowed the unsanctioned and illegal entry of hostile warships into our space to go unanswered once before - never again. Mane 614
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Denak Calamari
Ozark Cartel White Mountain Coalition
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why do we have to argue if the Matari or the Gallenteans are more at fault in this whole farse? As Grideris said, the most likely reason the identity was kept secret to make sure no allies or co-conspirators would disappear before the investigation was done. In my honest opinion both the Republic and the Federation are at fault here, and blaming either side isn't going to help anyone. All these Black Eagle conspiracies are also ******* stupid, because when was breaking the trust of your own ally was ever a good idea?
But anyway, I am glad his identity finally came public, and I hope he gets a fair trial and is punished accordingly. Immortality is overrated. |
Tootenh'amon
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Darius Shakor wrote:If you want me to say it then, yes, I agree they were stupid to do so. Though even without that the damage was being done by your government being completely obstinate. I doubt, though, you will agree. Why waste my breath further. No. You don't get to do this. You don't get to spit in the face of all the work the Federation has done over the years to help the Minmatar people reclaim their dignity and become a self-sufficient international power, send hostile military forces into our sovereign territory, kill thousands of Navy crewmen aboard starships crewed by officers who gave your forces ample opportunity to retreat without violence and then tell us it's our government's fault for not sharing enough information.
Funny, for the Federation owes much of what it is now to Minmatar immigrant workforce. What you're saying only proves one point: you believe the Republic has to be greatful enough to the Federation not to make any noise when it comes to significant issues of foreign policy. There go all the ideas of the Gallente selflessly helping someone out of the goodness of their heart. The Republic isn't and never will be a Federation colony. We've had to bow before one empire before. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2623
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tootenh'amon wrote:you believe the Republic has to be greatful enough to the Federation not to make any noise when it comes to significant issues of foreign policy. No, I believe that you can be as grateful or ungrateful as you want, but I also believe that you don't get to whine about our lack of respect for your culture after invading us. Mane 614
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Tootenh'amon
9
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Posted - 2013.05.12 10:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tootenh'amon wrote:you believe the Republic has to be greatful enough to the Federation not to make any noise when it comes to significant issues of foreign policy. No, I believe that you can be as grateful or ungrateful as you want, but I also believe that you don't get to whine about our lack of respect for your culture after invading us.
What does one have to do with the other? If you really knew our culture you'd know that our leaders won't take lightly to being slapped in the face with a big fat "no". If you really do know us, than it means you knew full well what would happen at Colelie. Then the whole incident looks like a ploy to push Republic away from the Federation, for whatever reason. I wonder what were the crew complements of the Moroses destroyed in that battle and how many Minmatar actually perished in the destruction of your fleet... |
Darius Shakor
Second Shakor Clan
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Darius Shakor wrote:If you want me to say it then, yes, I agree they were stupid to do so. Though even without that the damage was being done by your government being completely obstinate. I doubt, though, you will agree. Why waste my breath further. No. You don't get to do this. You don't get to spit in the face of all the work the Federation has done over the years to help the Minmatar people reclaim their dignity and become a self-sufficient international power, send hostile military forces into our sovereign territory, kill thousands of Navy crewmen aboard starships crewed by officers who gave your forces ample opportunity to retreat without violence and then tell us it's our government's fault for not sharing enough information. If you continue to maintain that after all this time, the Federation have learnt nothing about the Minmatar, then let me retort that the Minmatar have clearly learned nothing about the Federation. We allowed the unsanctioned and illegal entry of hostile warships into our space to go unanswered once before - never again.
Odd, I am the second Minmatar you have told what we cannot do. So tell me, what can I do?
Oh wait, that is not your call! Let me tell you about never again, Gallente. Never again is being told by people with a lofty opinion of their cultural superiority what we are allowed to do. Never presume to tell me or another Minmatar what opinions we should have. Never.
With that said, I am not trying to recover any high ground on my people's behalf. The fleet have dug us all a very big hole we have to climb out of. Don't even think for one minute that we are not now allowed to at least try and climb out of it by admitting that our fleet and the Tribal Assembly have some fault in this. That is nothing more than being humble and I would thank you for not throwing that back in my face.
Or am I supposed to sit here and just spout completely anti-Gallente sentiments because that is easier for you to deal with? I should maybe just point the finger entirely at your people at this point in time and admit no wrong on our part. And then you can do the same, and admit no wrong on your government's part. Because that is really how we progress past this, isn't it?
I am willing to budge a little on my opinion of the current situation. Clearly, you and your kind are not. |
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote:I am willing to budge a little on my opinion of the current situation. Clearly, you and your kind are not.
Don't worry about Andreus Ixiris.
He's just bent out of shape that the Blood Raiders didn't want his help in sacrificing women and children on their altars.
Cos that's what he offered to help with. Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/ |
Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tootenh'amon wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tootenh'amon wrote:you believe the Republic has to be greatful enough to the Federation not to make any noise when it comes to significant issues of foreign policy. No, I believe that you can be as grateful or ungrateful as you want, but I also believe that you don't get to whine about our lack of respect for your culture after invading us. What does one have to do with the other? If you really knew our culture you'd know that our leaders won't take lightly to being slapped in the face with a big fat "no". If you really do know us, than it means you knew full well what would happen at Colelie. Then the whole incident looks like a ploy to push Republic away from the Federation, for whatever reason. I wonder what were the crew complements of the Moroses destroyed in that battle and how many Minmatar actually perished in the destruction of your fleet...
Congratulations you have just reduced the entire Minmatar race to a toddler having a tantrum. He's being told "no you cannot have your ball" and so he's hurling his toys out of the pram. The difference is that the toddler is not expected to know better and the toddler does not have control of dreadnought type assets. Everyone has to deal with being told "no" now and again, and mature reasonable people can move past that and compromise, or failing that, say "okay, but next time you want to trade with us, taxes on your imports will be higher" Clearly we may be expecting too much of Shakor and his cabinet. My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Tootenh'amon
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Louella Dougans wrote:Darius Shakor wrote:I am willing to budge a little on my opinion of the current situation. Clearly, you and your kind are not. Don't worry about Andreus Ixiris. He's just bent out of shape that the Blood Raiders didn't want his help in sacrificing women and children on their altars. Cos that's what he offered to help with.
The levels some people will stoop to |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
I find myself completely in agreement with Darius Shakor and willing to state so in public without any feelings of resentment.
The universe has truly gone mad.
Else |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2627
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote:Odd, I am the second Minmatar you have told what we cannot do. So tell me, what can I do?
Oh wait, that is not your call! Let me tell you about never again, Gallente. Never again is being told by people with a lofty opinion of their cultural superiority what we are allowed to do. Never presume to tell me or another Minmatar what opinions we should have. Never. I'll presume to do whatever the **** I please, and if you feel particularly strongly that I shouldn't be doing something you may register your displeasure with me in person.
Darius Shakor wrote:With that said, I am not trying to recover any high ground on my people's behalf. The fleet have dug us all a very big hole we have to climb out of. Don't even think for one minute that we are not now allowed to at least try and climb out of it by admitting that our fleet and the Tribal Assembly have some fault in this. That is nothing more than being humble and I would thank you for not throwing that back in my face. That's very gracious of you, but the fact is there's a hell of a lot of fault being implied on the part of the Federation where very little actually exists. This was a crime committed on Federation territory against a large number of Federation citizens and one important foreign dignitary by a man we now know to have been a Federation national. If the Ray of Matar had not been involved in this atrocity the Republic would have had no diplomatic stake in the matter whatsoever. The fact that it was a tribal leader and a person of vast spiritual significance to the Minmatar was deeply tragic, but it certainly doesn't automatically give the Republic the right to the extradition of the criminal to their territory, nor is the Republic best served by the release of partial information on the shooter if it means potential collaborators could go to ground.
Perhaps the Federal government could have intimated the possibility of collaborators or the need to complete a thorough investigation more clearly but there is definitely not an equality of fault here. Mane 614
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote: If the Ray of Matar had not been involved in this atrocity the Republic would have had no diplomatic stake in the matter whatsoever.
You choose to conveniently forget the fact that the other victims where members of the tribes too, and also the fact that this was a crime committed with a motive against the tribes specifically. That makes it the Republic's business, like it or not. I am quite fine with negotiating with the Federation about how this should be handled, considering that laws and traditions conflict. The categorical denial that we even have a stake is offensive, however, and serves only as further provocation.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor Tribe |
Tootenh'amon
9
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Posted - 2013.05.12 10:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:If the Ray of Matar had not been involved in this atrocity the Republic would have had no diplomatic stake in the matter whatsoever.
Have you no sense of decency? 58 dead, 304 wounded, many of them Minmatar. I'd say that's still a pretty big reason to have an interest in the shooter. If you think we value the lives of our people so little, you really don't get our culture. |
Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
58 dead and 304 wounded? You call that a big deal? I'd hate to think how big a deal you consider the loss of a capital fleet, considering most Capsuleers turn in those kind of bodycounts every time we turn around. My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Tootenh'amon
9
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Posted - 2013.05.12 10:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:58 dead and 304 wounded? You call that a big deal? I'd hate to think how big a deal you consider the loss of a capital fleet, considering most Capsuleers turn in those kind of bodycounts every time we turn around.
Yes, such loss of civilian life is a big deal. To some people at least. |
Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Clearly. I turned in those kind of numbers last time I farted so there we go. Yet in response you're willing to unleash a dreadnought fleet which is over a thousand men per boat, and they all get taken out with no real return on investment? That's got to suck hard My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Tootenh'amon
9
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Posted - 2013.05.12 10:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm not going to discuss with you about questions of humanitarianism, as it appears you don't grasp its basics, nor about honor you know even less of. |
Zsaryna Adrelana
The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 11:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sure, go for a personal attack I don't care. But unlike some, I like to keep my jabs above the belt so I will say this. Given the current state of the Republic, can you really afford to throw away billions of isk for fifty dead and three hundred and something wounded? I think you'll agree the answer there is no. My alt has two Gnosis, how does he smell?Awful. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2627
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 11:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tootenh'amon wrote:Have you no sense of decency? 58 dead, 304 wounded, many of them Minmatar. I'd say that's still a pretty big reason to have an interest in the shooter. If you think we value the lives of our people so little, you really don't get our culture. 58 dead, 304 wounded, all of whom - with the exception of Karin Midular - were Federal citizens. So yes, the Minmatar would certainly have had social stake in the matter, but not a diplomatic one. The fact that one of the victims was a foreign dignitary most certainly does give you a diplomatic stake in the matter.
It does not give you cart+¬ blanche to invade our sovereign territory, kill our navymen and then blame us for not being forthcoming enough for your tastes. Mane 614
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Tootenh'amon
9
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Posted - 2013.05.12 11:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tootenh'amon wrote:Have you no sense of decency? 58 dead, 304 wounded, many of them Minmatar. I'd say that's still a pretty big reason to have an interest in the shooter. If you think we value the lives of our people so little, you really don't get our culture. 58 dead, 304 wounded, all of whom - with the exception of Karin Midular - were Federal citizens.
Perhaps you should watch the re-runs of news reports. |
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Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
You all are missing the point somewhat ferociously. You have bought in to the story as presented and play into the Federations plan by falling upon one another and attempting to rip out eachother's throats. Consider this instead.
Agents inside the Federation wish to destabilize Federation and Republic relations. An assassination attempt against Midular is attempted but fails. The Republic crosses into Federation space but does not fire and leaves peacefully. An investigation into the assassin does not mean the Republic officials have to be kept out of the loop. But yet they are to further destabilize relations. Once the Republic loses their restraint and attacks, only then is the killer revealed. His purpose fulfilled.
Personally I could not give a **** if both of your governments collapsed. But it is the welfare of the civillians that spurrs me to action here. Stop this fighting amoung yourselves and realize what your own governments are doing you fools. |
Bastian Valoron
Gallente Independent Progressive Alternative
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.
It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence. |
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Tootenh'amon wrote:Have you no sense of decency? 58 dead, 304 wounded, many of them Minmatar. I'd say that's still a pretty big reason to have an interest in the shooter. If you think we value the lives of our people so little, you really don't get our culture. 58 dead, 304 wounded, all of whom - with the exception of Karin Midular - were Federal citizens. So yes, the Minmatar would certainly have had social stake in the matter, but not a diplomatic one. The fact that one of the victims was a foreign dignitary most certainly does give you a diplomatic stake in the matter. It does not give you cart+¬ blanche to invade our sovereign territory, kill our navymen and then blame us for not being forthcoming enough for your tastes.
It's not a matter of casualty numbers, it's about something higher, in the Minmatar civilization we have a concept called "respect."
Our nation signed up to be an ALLY not a COLONY.
You say we should learn to handle "no." That's not the language of allies, that's the language of child-care. Grown men are not required to take "no" for an answer.
If the Gallente cannot treat with the Minmatar people as an equal partner, then we have no future as allies. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
431
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 12:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bastian Valoron wrote:Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.
It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence.
Yes.
|
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient Electus Matari
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote: GalNet searches have revealed the Broteau frequented numerous anti-foreigner forums and frequently posted about his hatred of Minmatar immigrants, desire to remove all non-Gallente elements from the Federation, and admiration for the Black Eagles and Director Mentas Blaque. Before becoming the director of the Black Eagles, Mentas Blaque was known as an outspoken leader of the Sociocrats party, which has long espoused isolation and strict immigration controls for the Federation.
The Black Eagles have issued a statement in response to the findings, denouncing Broteau and saying, GÇ£The man does not, never has, and never will have any involvement with the Special Department of Internal Investigations and Federal Security.GÇ¥
Expressing admiration for a Man and his Organisation is not the same as claiming to be a member of that organisation.
Strange that the SDII felt it was necessary for their statement to categorically deny that this man had any official connection to them or Federal Security. Then connect that to claims by Federal Officials that the identity of the shooter was being concealed due to National Security...
If the SDII intended to reassure people and reduce speculation with that statement, they failed miserably. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
921
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 13:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
So many Republican tears.
Perhaps we would allow you to have a say in this trial if you didn't invade our country hmm?
Nonetheless, justice will be delivered. However, this is a huge stain on Mentas Blaque's political career. Someone with similar beliefs as him is not standing in front of a court for mass murder. This is a good thing of course, the more we can discredit Mentas Blaque, the less likely we are to turn into a totalitarian regime.
I hope the Republic will remember this. Us going forth with the trial after their defeat at Colelie could not be a more humiliating punishment for their heinous crimes against the Federation.
Hmmm, speaking of crimes, Shakor is probably the next person who should stand trial. Colelie was like what, the fourth or fifth 5th time he breached the Yulai Convention? Clearly his government is not fond of honoring a century old agreement. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
439
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Perhaps if you had allowed us a say, no one had felt the need to resort to warships, hmh?
No comment on Shakor.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor tribe |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
931
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:So.
Why exactly could this information not have been released a week or two ago? What was the "national security" that demanded that it be kept, despite the rising emotions?
Really Elsebeth, I give you far more credit than the levels of density you've been showing as of late.
It's in the report itself as to why things had been kept quiet, you don't release details as an investigation is ongoing. What if he'd been part of a bigger group? What if it had links within the Republic and your obsessive need for details had caused them to be released and allowed said people to go to ground?
Come on, it's simple investigative work. Even you know how this stuff works when you're capable of thinking rationally and your judgement isn't clouded by emotion. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
921
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Perhaps if you had allowed us a say, no one had felt the need to resort to warships, hmh?
I cannot speak for why you were not allowed a say earlier on. That involves politics (and possible conspiracy) high up in the government that I can only speculate on. I was always supportive of a joint Federation-Republic investigation and trial, never one or the other entirely. However after Colelie, it is very obvious that the Republic does not share my opinion on this.
All I know, is that an invasion was not the answer to your demands. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
449
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
It's so cute how the Minmatar accuse the Gallente of being insensitive to their cultural values in the same paragraph where they put their own values over the laws of the Federation and the values that caused those laws to come in to being.
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: You choose to conveniently forget the fact that the other victims where members of the tribes too, and also the fact that this was a crime committed with a motive against the tribes specifically. That makes it the Republic's business, like it or not. I am quite fine with negotiating with the Federation about how this should be handled, considering that laws and traditions conflict. The categorical denial that we even have a stake is offensive, however, and serves only as further provocation.
and once again the Republic conveniently forgets that they do not speak for the whole of the Minmatar.
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Strange that the SDII felt it was necessary for their statement to categorically deny that this man had any official connection to them or Federal Security. Then connect that to claims by Federal Officials that the identity of the shooter was being concealed due to National Security...
If the SDII intended to reassure people and reduce speculation with that statement, they failed miserably.
There are plenty of idiots who take a lack of such a statement of uninvolvement as an implicit support of someone's actions. There's probably a government form for statements like that for agencies in all of the Empires.
Of course, an agency just can't win when denial is taken as evidence of conspiracy by other idiots. ==== I hope to see justice served. Though I am no friend to the Gallente or their Federation, civilians should be protected and their attackers brought to justice. I can at least respect the Federation's integrity in continuing to seek to carry out an investigation by their laws rather than succumbing to Republic bullying. |
|
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
929
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 14:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
There is talk of holding a celebration of Chief Midular's life. While I support this, it and any other respects will be secondary. Her procession has already passed.
Warships have carried her to her resting place, Corpses have carried her to the pyre. Cries for justice have been her eulogies, A needless and angry silence her hymns. A dreadnought's guns to light the kindle and fires of hate carry her aloft.
I did not know her, I was in a coma while she did her work, but my heart aches for this passage. Perhaps this is fitting. She fought valiantly against the fires that have now consumed her in her passing. With so bright a soul, it is no surprise that the fires would be bright and hot.
May that fire illuminate our faults, so that we may see them more clearly, and correct those deadly flaws she strove to heal. |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
142
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 15:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Bastian Valoron wrote:Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.
It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence. Yes.
That is precisely why the Villore Accords has taken the stance it has. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 17:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Anybody with a whit of sense who thought about the actual shooting would realize that there's no way this could be the work of a lone shooter. Simultaneous explosions. Hundreds of people wounded, dozens killed. Perhaps a lone man could have done these sorts of things if he had attacked, say, a theater with minimal security. This was a major cultural event attended by major political figures. There is no way Midular attended without a very good security force, let alone the others.
So now we've got our lone gunman. He's a crazy one, too. Seems like the sort of man who froths away in the basement while composing screeds, not the sort who could singlehandedly pull something like this off. I'm not going to engage in idle speculation about possible accomplices, but I'd bet money that accomplices exist.
But hey, who cares, right? Now we've got a real argument going about the Federation not understanding the Republic, and the Republic invading the Federation. If I were a shady puppet master, and I wanted to orchestrate a split between two allies by orchestrating Midular's assassination, I'd be giggling like a maniac and congratulating myself for succeeding beyond my wildest expectations.
Speaking personally, though, I'm feeling pretty done with the Republic. Republicans complaining that they are misunderstood while justifying an invasion as an almost natural consequence of frustrated relations? Fine. I don't want them as allies, and I certainly hope Roden feels the same way. Let them stand alone.
Bio and writing |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
731
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 17:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.
It's clear that there's blame to be placed on both sides in this dispute, however, it seems the Gallente aren't willing to accept their share.
Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Kytre Aurgnet
Better Hide R Die EVE
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:Anybody with a whit of sense who thought about the actual shooting would realize that there's no way this could be the work of a lone shooter. Simultaneous explosions. Hundreds of people wounded, dozens killed. Perhaps a lone man could have done these sorts of things if he had attacked, say, a theater with minimal security. This was a major cultural event attended by major political figures. There is no way Midular attended without a very good security force, let alone the others.
So now we've got our lone gunman. He's a crazy one, too. Seems like the sort of man who froths away in the basement while composing screeds, not the sort who could singlehandedly pull something like this off. I'm not going to engage in idle speculation about possible accomplices, but I'd bet money that accomplices exist.
I'm just hoping the Broker isn't involved in this. |
Kytre Aurgnet
Better Hide R Die EVE
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.
It's clear that there's blame to be placed on both sides in this dispute, however, it seems the Gallente aren't willing to accept their share.
Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding. In all honesty, I'm really hoping that relations smooth out over time between the Republic and Federation.
After all, if the Caldari become friends with the Minmatar they're going to lose their alliance with the Amarr very, very fast. And I have a fear that means the Amarr and Gallente would become "friends" out of necessity, and I'm sure neither side is very willing to work with the other just yet... |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
507
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote: Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.
That is a dangerous route, politically, as said just above. Gallente-Amarr agreements are not unheard of through History, contrary to the popular belief. They were actually a lot more numerous than between State and Republic. |
Tootenh'amon
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Anabella Rella wrote: Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.
That is a dangerous route, politically, as said just above. Gallente-Amarr agreements are not unheard of through History, contrary to the popular belief. They were actually a lot more numerous than between State and Republic.
Possibly, but the State and the Republic have one thing in common- the desire for freedom and independence. Funny how the Gallenteans keep shouting freedom left right and center, yet they never had to actually fight for it. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.
The irony.
But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words?
The level of stupidity among people these last few weeks has known no bounds, it's like you want to torch the bridges intentionally. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Tootenh'amon
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up. But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words?
So that's how You view alliances? Denying the other party anything because you're in a better position and your ally "has to learn his place"? |
|
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
495
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words?
The level of stupidity among people these last few weeks has known no bounds, it's like you want to torch the bridges intentionally.
Ha... |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tootenh'amon wrote:Possibly, but the State and the Republic have one thing in common- the desire for freedom and independence. Funny how the Gallenteans keep shouting freedom left right and center, yet they never had to actually fight for it.
Anyone who's not Caldari or Gallente - especially anyone whose ancestors weren't warmed by the light of Luminaire - can't possibly understand the conflict between the State and the Federation, nor the feelings of those of us who are working towards its eventual resolution.
See? Anyone can make that sort of argument. Dumb, isn't it?
But what do I know. I'm just a Gallentean, right? Bio and writing |
Fox Frijmann
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
The Republic is greatly in debt to the Gallente Federation, culturally, financially, and otherwise. As bad as conditions have been within Republic borders it would have only been much worse without Gallentean corporate and Federal backing after our Rebellion. The Republic stagnates under current leadership, and so many of us chose to live as immigrants to the Federation, who have for the most part been only welcoming.
I can see how some might resent this, but they have no constructive solutions of their own.
I feel we can and should trust the due process of the Gallentean system, within whose borders this crime took place. While not perfect they are fair and just with hundreds of years as a free society to get it right. The social safety net here and abundant charity assures that everyone can get the basics of food, clothes, and a decent education, and there are always jobs for anyone willing to work hard.
Back home there is starvation, privation, hopelessness. In many systems people look to criminal pirate cartels like the Serpentis and Angels who exploit them terribly but are better organized than the government and provide necessities they would otherwise do without.
As ethnic Matari immigrants we chose to live here in the Federation, and Karin travelled knowing the risk anyone of her stature faces when going abroad. It could have happened anywhere. And politics being what it is, there could even be an Amarrian hand ultimately behind it. It would not surprise me as they are well known for playing the long game. Their leaders live for hundreds of years.
If the Sebiestor Tribe leadership and Parliaiment continues as they have been lately then it only justifies the (false) views that we truly are little more than the savages the Amarrians claim we are. They should butt out. Across the border, the Republic leadership holds no claim to our lives. And they bring nothing but shame to the legacy of Karin Midular.
These recent Tribal and Republican hysterics are not what Karin Midular stood for. If we truly wish to honor her and her memory, then they should back down and be patient and let justice be done with deliberation and the due process guaranteed to everyone in the Federation. And maybe watch and learn while they are at it. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
937
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tootenh'amon wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up. But that's how you view alliances? One side refuses to give you what you want so you run crying into the arms of the first people to sweet talk you with promises and fair words? So that's how You view alliances? Denying the other party anything because you're in a better position and your ally "has to learn his place"?
I don't think they've denied the Republic anything the Republic has had a right to. Just because you kick up a fuss doesn't mean you're entitled to anything.
Nor has anyone said they have to "learn their place" if you're going to quote people in an attempt to further stir up trouble, at least be accurate.
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Ha...
Glad to see you're amused Inhonores, care to share the joke? Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:So many Republican tears.
Perhaps we would allow you to have a say in this trial if you didn't invade our country hmm?
Nonetheless, justice will be delivered. However, this is a huge stain on Mentas Blaque's political career. Someone with similar beliefs as him is now standing in front of a court for mass murder. This is a good thing of course, the more we can discredit Mentas Blaque, the less likely we are to turn into a totalitarian regime.
I hope the Republic will remember this. Us going forth with the trial after their defeat at Colelie could not be a more humiliating punishment for their heinous crimes against the Federation.
Hmmm, speaking of crimes, Shakor is probably the next person who should stand trial. Colelie was like what, the fourth or fifth 5th time he breached the Yulai Convention? Clearly his government is not fond of honoring a century old agreement.
Funny your ignorance even now still shows.
For your information, it was the tribal council who ordered the RF into Colelie. Your government did something really amazing . They disrespected the Republic so much, that the whole tribal council felt the need to make a statement!
But you can keep up being an hypocrite and ignorant just like most of your fellow gallenteans, as always. |
James Syagrius
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
384
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Bastian Valoron wrote:Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.
It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence. Yes. That is precisely why the Villore Accords has taken the stance it has. It always astonishes me how many self haters arise out of the Federation.
So I am sure all you justice seekers and truth tellers will agree that a similar investigation should occur in the former Republic.
One to determine exactly who ordered the murder of all those Federal service personnel in Colelie. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
|
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
928
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote: NO U!!!!!.
There, I modified your argument which is quite similar to all of the other Republican arguments. So to which I will make my rebuttal
*Ehem*
... NO U!!!!!!! Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
929
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
[quote=Anabella Rella
Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding. [/quote]
Great idea, partner up with the Caldari who recently took massive military losses and is one spark away from civil war.
Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
216
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.
Eh.. no.
If anything like Fox above intimates this would fit more into an Amarrian conspiracy to split the Republic from the Federation, divide and conquer.
We would never form an alliance with slavers. |
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Julianus Soter wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Bastian Valoron wrote:Since keeping the identity of this man from the public has already cost more lives than what he ever alone could have taken, and jeopardized the strategic and diplomatic interests of the Federation, I hope this nonsense will now swiftly be brought to a resolution which is satisfactory to all involved parties.
It should also be investigated whether the withholding of the assailant's identity for "technical reasons" has been a severe misjudgment or an intentional plot. The authorities behind the relevant decisions should be interrogated, their backgrounds should be checked, and if nothing is found, they should be fired for incompetence. Yes. That is precisely why the Villore Accords has taken the stance it has. It always astonishes me how many self haters arise out of the Federation. So I am sure all you justice seekers and truth tellers will agree that a similar investigation should occur in the former Republic. One to determine exactly who ordered the murder of all those Federal service personnel in Colelie.
I'll leave this here for you: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/republic-fleet-force-destroyed-entering-federation-despite-capsuleer-pleas-for-peace/
Beginning of the second paragraph, if you are interested. It clearly states the "Tribal Council" ordered such action. We have already taken the first step, when can we expect for your nation to do the same. Unlike you, we do not mind "sharing" information and letting you know upfront about our actions.
We also we no reasons to be cowards nor deceiving about our actions either. We also most certainly do not require to hide important information pertaining to the both of us behind the veiled of "National Security".
But I would not have any high hopes about the members of the Tribal Council being fired though. Just to let you know, before you and your fellow Gallenteans start spouting nonsense about Shakor or Shakorites. Let me remind you once again, it was the Tribal Council as a whole who ordered the Republic Fleet into colelie. This means ,for you ignorant fools hereabout, that the Republic as a sovereign state acted as a whole, regardless and knowing full well of the consequences. This should really tell you something about the road which we both are traveling on.
Last and final, before you go back to your ignorance, please sit down and think. Do not just sit in your little CQ, surround by your ignorance and blame just one man or a group of of people for it (ie. Shakor or his supporters) for the failure of the alliance or friendship. Our relationship is far more complex, and the problems of the relationship is even deeper then that. But this is another subject entirely. If we are going to stop being allies, then we should at least know the reasons why. So if ever need to remain friends or rebuild our friendship and alliance, we can and know how to avoid such pitfalls in the future.
In my opinion, I do not agree with the way the Tribal Council acted. There were many other avenues to let the Gallentee know about the seriousness of the situation. We could have kick out their ambassadors, stop trading with them and simply declare to their face that we no longer view them as allies and a reset was due. There was no reason to send in those Naglfars. But what is done is done, when push come to shove, I will defend the Republic.
But then again, I was not in any of the meetings when the diplomatic between both states were taking place. Therefore, I do not know what was said as to **** off the Tribal Council so much to cause them to respond like that. Somewhere in my head, something is nagging me though. Maybe whoever was in charge of the diplomatic talks between the Republic and the Federation was a lot like the Federation admiral of that fateful day, just a thought. This is entirely my opinion though. |
|
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:
Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.
Great idea, partner up with the Caldari who recently took massive military losses and is one spark away from civil war. Oh! And don't forget that such an alliance would force the Amarr, the largest and one of the most powerful nations of New Eden, to team up with us, the second largest and equally as powerful.
LMAO!!!
So says the guy who support Freedom and all that comes along with it!
That was truly revealing of you Fred!
By the way, what about the many mataries living in the Federation, Fred. Let me guess!
cough!
"Sold into slavery" |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps Interstellar Online Network
1462
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 00:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
Darius Shakor wrote:Embarrassed by the factions within your perfect society that seek to attack other cultures within your borders?
Funny you should mention that... the name Abel Jarek ring any bells? Q: Just how bad were missiles and drones nerfed?-á A: They're adding them to Amarr ships now. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Tribal Band
935
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 01:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Eh.. no.
If anything like Fox above intimates this would fit more into an Amarrian conspiracy to split the Republic from the Federation, divide and conquer.
We would never form an alliance with slavers.
You'd be surprised. We've actually had quite a number of mutually beneficial deals with the Amarr, even if it was just to keep us from shooting at each other.
Put it this way, if the State and Republic start working together. The Empire and Federation will have to make due with each other for a short time.
If **** hits the fan, neither of us will care about what the other believes until the threat is dealt with.
Look at what happened when Sansha's Nation showed up again, everyone became temporary allies with each other. Time and time again you will find that all you need is a common enemy to bring people together.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:
NO U!!!!!!
Oh, you again.
NO U!!!!!!!! Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
James Syagrius
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
388
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 02:09:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote: Beginning of the second paragraph, if you are interested. It clearly states the "Tribal Council" ordered such action.
Let me remind you once again, it was the Tribal Council as a whole who ordered the Republic Fleet into colelie. This means ,for you ignorant fools hereabout, that the Republic as a sovereign state acted as a whole, regardless and knowing full well of the consequences. This should really tell you something about the road which we both are traveling on.
If we are going to stop being allies, then we should at least know the reasons why. So if ever need to remain friends or rebuild our friendship and alliance, we can and know how to avoid such pitfalls in the future.
Oh I think we GÇ£ignorant foolsGÇ¥ know the reasons.
By your own admission the Tribal Council, which is what passes for a government in the former Republic, with malice of forethought made the determination to invade the Federation.
As to the future, now we know with what regard and affection you and yours hold the Federation.
You are my enemy, and I am most certainly yours. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
|
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1561
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 02:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Just give up Elsebeth. There's no point in trying to have a discussion with those whose minds are already made up.
It's clear that there's blame to be placed on both sides in this dispute, however, it seems the Gallente aren't willing to accept their share.
Oh well. The Caldari seem to want better relations with the Republic. Perhaps we should investigate that possibility, Heth's self-serving statements notwithstanding.
We've already been down this road roughly a year ago, or don't you remember?
Ishuk-Raata approached the Republic with an offer of trade. We offered it without demanding you sever ties with the Federation. We offered it without demanding you cease fighting the Amarr. We offered it in the spirit of mutual benefit.
We were summarily rejected on all approaches based on multiple criteria. You yourself, Anabella Rella, had been one of the most vocal opponents of any sort of cooperation with us. Now that the Federation has snubbed you, you suddenly change your tone and wonder what it might be like to have taken us up on our offer?
You could have already had this sort of relationship with the Caldari. You could have been partners in business with us long ago. You could have forged the way ahead by considering the powerful statement that Electus Matari and Ishuk-Raata joined in mutual trade could have meant.
You chose not to. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Sub-Director of Public Relations |
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 02:24:00 -
[76] - Quote
The senate and your president actions say otherwise.
Quote "The Gallente Senate has called an emergency session to discuss the breach of the border and hostile action by the Republic Fleet. President Jacus Roden has issued a statement saying, GÇ£The Federation is committed to peace and we will take every step necessary to preserve it.GÇ¥
If the Federation wanted war , they would have chosen war when it came knocking on their door.
So please, go back to your cubicle captain James Syagrius. |
Kytre Aurgnet
Better Hide R Die EVE
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 02:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
Looking for a peaceful solution is always the best course of action. Is it not what Midular was known for in the political arena after all, trying to promote peace between enemies?
However, if the Republic is so hell-bent on starting a war, so forgetful of what the woman they say they fight for did in life, they will get it. Continue to attack, continue to invade, continue to ignore attempts at peace...you will get your war, and if the latest battle is any indication, you may not really want it. And if they go crawling to the Caldari for aid...they will have much to worry about; far more than if they stood alone. I may not like the idea of an alliance with the Amarr, but if the times call for it then so be it. |
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 03:13:00 -
[78] - Quote
Let me be clear, as I already stated.
I did not agree with what the Tribal Council did but since we are at this cross road , I obviously am going to support my kin. I clearly stated some other routes they could have taken instead in one of my earlier post.
But let's be clear, all of this could have being avoided if the Federation has simply kept the Republic inform. But the Federation stated they did not trust us with information , as if we could not being trusted. The Federation treated the Republic at best as an neutral entity and at worst as an enemy , not as an ally or friend.
Yet I am shock to see so many Gallenteans are shocked when the Republic acted as as such. You chose your own poison.
Please be my guess, join the Amarrians. I rather be a friend to a Caldari any day of the week then to be one with an Amarrian. I am sure the Caldari will be many times more trusworthy then the Amarr. Well at least, they will be the lesser of the two evils.
Also, do try to talk to your fellow friends "the Amarr" with the same demeaning tone as you do while talking to us. Also please do try telling them that there beliefs and ideals are wrong. Finally, when a major Amarr official or Amarr Holder is assassinated in your lands, since your security services as surely amazing, please do tell them the same BS** that you have being telling us.
We will be on the sideline watching you. Good luck! |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
144
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 03:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.
An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided. |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 04:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
I am not sure if I should be more amused at the Gallente arrogance or Minmatar indignation in this particular case. |
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Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 05:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.
An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided.
To be honest Soter, while I did support your petition for more information and for Blaque stepping down from the FIO. The Federation is not at 100% fault here. Never should Allies send a hostle fleet into the other's space. Blasters for life
https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2752
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 06:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
If racism or a dislike of immigrants was cause for someone to pick up a gun and go on a killing spree, we would see this all of the time.
What condition was the suspect in when arrested?
As for taking a month to determine no further involvement, I think that's a lie. A month being injected with the right drugs and they can implant an entire story in any brain.
I won't be surprised if this suspect pleads guilty and repeats the exact line for a motive that we have seen in the news report.
Then what? Case closed? Who benefits from all this? |
Katarina Musana
Phyrean Logistics Inc.
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:02:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vikarion wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Well, I am not really interested in immigration politics of the Federation and what Blaque wanted to do about it, but I would be very content, if they banned emigration from the Federation, so all this gallentean filth remained inside Federal borders. Uh...if you ban all emigration, then the other ethnicities can't get out either.
I would suspect that she would feel them already too tainted to be saved.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No. You don't get to do this. You don't get to spit in the face of all the work the Federation has done over the years to help the Minmatar people reclaim their dignity and become a self-sufficient international power, send hostile military forces into our sovereign territory, kill thousands of Navy crewmen aboard starships crewed by officers who gave your forces ample opportunity to retreat without violence and then tell us it's our government's fault for not sharing enough information.
We're not saying it is the fault of the Federation that the events of Colelie happened, certainly not directly. Were their Federation actions that factored into the long-term culmination of that event? Definitely, but the final fault lies with our Republic for choosing to send in those Naglfars and to fire upon the Federation fleet.
I would hope, though, that the Federation is willing to look at the mistakes it made along the way and correct them for the future. While the fault lies with the Republic for the final choice made, there are many points along the way where things could've been done differently by either side that would've prevented the choice from ever coming up, and that's equally important.
As I once told my daughter when she she bragged about winning a fight a classmate had started with her, while he was at fault for throwing the first punch, she needed to think about what she had done to make him want to throw that first punch and consider how she could improve herself so it wouldn't happen again.
Also, for a nation that has supposedly been helping us reclaim our dignity, you guys sure seem intent on denying it to us every chance you get, constantly reminding us how we wouldn't even exist without your help, much less continue to get by.
Quote:58 dead, 304 wounded, all of whom - with the exception of Karin Midular - were Federal citizens.
Did you actually read the news? Many of the dead and wounded were Republic citizens visiting their family in the Federation.
|
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote: But let's be clear, all of this could have being avoided if the Federation has simply kept the Republic inform. But the Federation stated they did not trust us with information , as if we could not being trusted. The Federation treated the Republic at best as an neutral entity and at worst as an enemy , not as an ally or friend.
You're an odd bird, but you're not the first person to claim that the Federation hasn't kept the Republic informed of things. Why is that? I've kept up on the news and nowhere have I seen any claims by the Republic that the Federation has not kept them informed. Shakor demanded Midular be transferred to a Republic hospital, and the two RSS incursions into Federation space were to secure Midular and to forcably extradite the shooter. Different matters entirely.
The only people I've seen complaining that the Federation wasn't sharing information with them has been private pilots and reporters. I suppose you might really feel that the Federation has a duty to share the details of ongoing investigations with foreign students. Stranger people have held stranger beliefs.
P.S., what's a cubicle? You keep telling people to go back to their cubicles. Is that some sort of Amarrian thing? Bio and writing |
Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 07:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:[quote=Jelani Akinyemi Affonso] P.S., what's a cubicle? You keep telling people to go back to their cubicles. Is that some sort of Amarrian thing?
I have wondering this myself, and after some research I found that a cubicle is device from the early 21th centry before the colaspe fo the EVE Gate. I do believe that they are Caldari in origin as they were used to torture those that worked in them with clocks than ran at a slower time than the world around those increasing the amount of work one had to do. Blasters for life
https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
450
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 09:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:
It says that "according to reports" this is the case. I have seen the material on which those reports are based. It is far from conclusive; most damning are the following bits:
1) The Fleet call for help talks about how Tribal Council has discussed the issue. It then goes on to say that the Fleet person "has been instructed" to proceed. The implication to a careless reader is that these are orders by the Tribal Council, but in fact the message quite carefully does not say who gave the instruction. 2) When we on the field asked about this, the response we got was that the orders are "directly from the top". I, at least, was not given names or positions.
Make of that what you will. I know I have.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Sebiestor Tribe |
James Syagrius
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
390
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 00:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.
An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided. When I read something like this I try to console myself by considering the source.
But even still, how in the nine hells can any rational person blame the President for an military action perpetrated on the Federation by the current Tribal cabal?.
If you loath the Federation so much and have so much admiration for the Tribals and their GÇ£nobleGÇ¥ cause, then for the love of heaven... GO! GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
|
Shintoko Akahoshi
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Julianus Soter wrote:Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.
An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided. When I read something like this I try to console myself by considering the source. But even still, how in the nine hells can any rational person blame the President for a military action perpetrated on the Federation by the current Tribal cabal?
I've been puzzled for some time at the Republican argument that the Federation doesn't view the Republic as a responsible peer, that it views the Republic as a client state that isn't entirely capable of functioning as a sovereign entity. Where did they get this idea, I've wondered.
Reading Soter's response here makes it all clear. Bio and writing |
Nerva Auris
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Julianus Soter wrote:Mr. Affonso, I assure you, should any break in status of relations with the Minmatar occur, the blame will entirely rest with our present Administration.
An Administration which can only be categorized as one of two things: dangerously incompetent, or horrifically misguided. When I read something like this I try to console myself by considering the source. But even still, how in the nine hells can any rational person blame the President for a military action perpetrated on the Federation by the current Tribal cabal?. If you loath the Federation so much and have so much admiration for the Tribals and their GÇ£nobleGÇ¥ cause, then for the love of heaven... GO!
It appears that the only proper way to respect the Republic and it's Tribal traditions is to simply abandon your own laws and sovereignty any time they start shouting and smashing things.
It's a shame it didn't occur to my ancestors to claim that the former Minmatar Empire was harboring a fugitive, it would seem in that case that even the Minmatar would have considered the subsequent invasion fully justified. |
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