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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.12 16:36:00 -
[1]
Personally I think the fitting it now to low but I need to test more.
Large shield extender T2
46CPU
165 Powergrid (123.75 with skills)
25 sig penetly
The sig Penalty seems perfect to me. Powergrid I think might be to low. I would bump it up closer to what it used to be. CPU I was hoping they would aim for 80 to 95CPU per module so 46 was a surprise. At 46 CPU I can fit a full row of 425mm railguns and 3 shield extenders, 2 hardeners and shield relays in the low slots.
What is everyone elseÆs views? I would be happy if they bumped CPU up to 50 ish bumped powergrid up a little. More hitpoints would be nice to.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.10.12 16:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: keepiru on 12/10/2005 16:41:36
Whoa, that looks indeed low... its less than 1/2 TQ values. Must hop on sisi to test. >:)
25 sig tbh is a little low too compared to what armor plates get for that hp.
Well, either one is too low or the other is too high. I'm verging towards armor penalty being too high and shield fitting too low myself.
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WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.10.12 16:44:00 -
[3]
Those look like cruiser fittings, and I guess they are thinking about adding a XLarge Shield Extender.. would make sense honestly, since the medium extender is not up to par with other cruiser plating.
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.12 16:55:00 -
[4]
I just looked at the medium extender T2 for you
34cpu
31PG without skills.
+7sig.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.12 16:58:00 -
[5]
"What is everyone elseÆs views? I would be happy if they bumped CPU up to 50 ish bumped powergrid up a little. More hitpoints would be nice to."
This looks good at the glance... the large shield extender is designed for top-end cruisers and battlecruisers i think, it has fittings like 800 mm plate... so +25 to sig sounds about right.
the grid fitting appears almost too good, aye, considering there's skill to reduce it further. I'd expect it to be more like 200 grid for tech.2 extender, 175 for tech.1 or something like that o.O;
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.12 17:06:00 -
[6]
With there being a mention of the Flux modules in the dev chat I thought it was worth looking in the data base. I came across this
Flux Module 10
Shield Boost Bonus
900 %
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Har Ganeth
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Posted - 2005.10.12 17:15:00 -
[7]
A 25% sig penalty? Is that not like being permanently target painted?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.12 17:20:00 -
[8]
No not 25% just 25.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.12 17:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/10/2005 17:21:14
edit: doh, Pottsey has higher level of rapid posting skill..
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.10.12 18:56:00 -
[10]
Yay! I can finally passive tank in a way that pottsey has for months! *Hoards extenders*
---
 Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:00:00 -
[11]
I hope they are adding an XL extender. The current large one is really only worth it for cruisers, and the new fitting on sisi kinda makes it possible to actualy use them on other things than BCs. Battleship extenders need more HP though.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.10.12 19:17:00 -
[12]
this is perfect in my eyes
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Put your panties on your head! |
The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nafri
this is perfect in my eyes
whats the armor fitting any way?
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Pottsey on 12/10/2005 20:26:44
At first I didnÆt like the changeÆs but now they have grown on me. Sig is fine how it is the extra sig did not bother me in combat. My current setup has 154.3 HP regen with T1 low slot modules. I wish I had T2.
Decent resistance from the new Invul fields. Only using 1 until stacking is fixed so 37.5% to all and 18k shields
521 CPU free
10754 PG free
In the high slots I can fit a much better weapon system then before. Tomorrow I am going to try and lower my HP regen down to 120HP/s to match an Xlarge shield booster then use up the free slots to boost more resistance and/or fit EW modules.
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:39:00 -
[15]
My God... is this a tiny bit of Caldari love that I see? On top of all the penalties we've been hit with recently?
It looks as if the Devs may be reading these forums after all.
Now if they'll just read the posts regarding the t2 BCU CPU use, missile DPS, and Caldari HACs then we might be coming close to a level playing field.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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Ashareth
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Posted - 2005.10.12 20:55:00 -
[16]
OH MY GOD!!!
At last!:)
For weeks now i was hopping to see a boost to extenders hp to have something decent... and now it's seem that devs have finally realised that nearly no one used shield tanking because nobody could and it was pretty ineffective! :)
Great news.
Pottsey, thx for the info(i think you should get a medal for all your great work on shield tanking and passing information to us.;)).
The extenders are perfect right now, since they seems to be in line with the plates( 800 plates for large extender) in terms of fitting and hp bonus, AND malus! :)
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:02:00 -
[17]
Ok, now I'm really worried about Medium shield extenders becoming too good for Frigates. I thought they were great already, and now they are better.
Now I can get over 1500 shields, 2 passive resistance amplifiers, 1 Invulnerability field, and 2 shield power relays, for a very tough Merlin.
However, I've never really been an armor tanker, so I can't really compare it to a good armor tank.
PS. I've got the BPO for the Invulnerability Field II on Sisi. Should I start building them for others to use? |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:11:00 -
[18]
Thy can adjust passive tanking later, but first we need them to be usable for my fleet tempest 
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Put your panties on your head! |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:21:00 -
[19]
Some very good news here regarding shield tanking.
It would be nice to have more mids to play with on shield tanking ships smaller than BS's, so that these nice mods can actually be fitted in pvp (which seemed to be one reason for the changes).
I was thinking about proposing propulsion mods (ab/mwd) to be fitted in low slots instead of mids, so that your typical pvp stuffs (propulsion mod/web/scram) impacts armor tanking a bit more and shield tanking a bit less. I'm not feeling like being flamed today, for whatever good or bad reason, so i'm not (really) doing it.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
---
Originally by: theRaptor
Its even funnier when half the forum is crying for damage mod nerfs and the other half for plate nerfs. 
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:23:00 -
[20]
Finally balanced to armor plates! The sig penalty seems perfect. Not too much but still significant. Powergrid is okay, the ships that these changes are aimed at might exclude your dominix that seemed to have 7k grid spare. I'll see you tomorrow on test hopefully to test your new passively tanked Dominix. That way you can compare to yesterday.
By the way, shield extenders still take a precious medium slot and have less hitpoints added. This, the signature radii increase and the very tight powergrid on most shield tanking ships offsets the low powergrid demand.
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel
Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:26:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/10/2005 22:27:52
Originally by: Kldraina
Now I can get over 1500 shields, 2 passive resistance amplifiers, 1 Invulnerability field, and 2 shield power relays, for a very tough Merlin.
However, I've never really been an armor tanker, so I can't really compare it to a good armor tank.
The punisher can get such a setup on armor aswel, with some big plate and two adaptative nano, it's no big deal. Merlin benefits from shield recharge whereas punisher will run his small rep (merlin uses cap for invulnerability field, punisher for the rep but none for the adaptative nanos). Now, is this merlin (or the punisher) very useful... often not, unless a corpmate want to test the damage output of his t1 frig on another one.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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Originally by: theRaptor
Its even funnier when half the forum is crying for damage mod nerfs and the other half for plate nerfs.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:33:00 -
[22]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/10/2005 22:34:05
"Now I can get over 1500 shields, 2 passive resistance amplifiers, 1 Invulnerability field, and 2 shield power relays, for a very tough Merlin."
It leaves 77 cpu and 18.75 grid with max skills.. meaning you get the ship which can't fit guns better than 75mm rails (5.5 km optimal) no propulsion to get within that optimal, no means to hold down the enemy, and the cap recharge that's not high enough to sustain neither the single active hardener it uses nor the guns -- when running both hardener and guns, full capacitor runs out completely in exactly 2 minutes, and then takes 4 minutes to recharge.
In other words, not exactly something to be feared of. a regular Punisher is likely to outmatch that setup both in damage and tanking ability...
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.12 22:40:00 -
[23]
i think i would increase HP, increase CPU to 50, PG to 250 and sig upto 30
then i would add an xlarge extender class
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Kldraina
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Posted - 2005.10.13 03:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
The punisher can get such a setup on armor aswel, with some big plate and two adaptative nano, it's no big deal. Merlin benefits from shield recharge whereas punisher will run his small rep (merlin uses cap for invulnerability field, punisher for the rep but none for the adaptative nanos). Now, is this merlin (or the punisher) very useful... often not, unless a corpmate want to test the damage output of his t1 frig on another one.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Thanks for the info. I'll probably try fitting a punisher with that later, to try it out.
Originally by: j0sephine
It leaves 77 cpu and 18.75 grid with max skills.. meaning you get the ship which can't fit guns better than 75mm rails (5.5 km optimal) no propulsion to get within that optimal, no means to hold down the enemy, and the cap recharge that's not high enough to sustain neither the single active hardener it uses nor the guns -- when running both hardener and guns, full capacitor runs out completely in exactly 2 minutes, and then takes 4 minutes to recharge.
In other words, not exactly something to be feared of. a regular Punisher is likely to outmatch that setup both in damage and tanking ability...
With level 5 shield upgrades, an implant reducing PG requirments another 3%, and Engineering 5, I had about 21 pg left (and about half my cpu). This was enough to equip 2 'Arbalest' standard launchers. I also fitted 2 125mm autocannons just to fill the extra space.
The cap use was actually quite affordable. I was using a named Invulnerability field which took 40 energy every 12 seconds. If I had the skills for tech 2 I could sustain it indefinitely. Since none of my weapons took any cap, it was just the 3.3 cap/sec when my max regen was about 3.2/sec.
While it is slower than a Punisher, those missiles had a range of about 28km (and it could be more with more skills). I don't know of any frigate guns that can match that range.
I admit that it won't fare well in most PvP, but it should do very well in PvE. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.13 03:33:00 -
[25]
"This was enough to equip 2 'Arbalest' standard launchers. I also fitted 2 125mm autocannons just to fill the extra space."
Sorry, i should've worded it better ^^ the remaining grid allows to fit 2x standard launchers and 2x 75mm rails.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.10.13 04:27:00 -
[26]
More hp than 800mm plate (about 25% more) for comparable fitting - less pg more cpu.
High time they removed the speed penalty on plates then, and hopefully there'll be some HP adjustment between the equivalent classes.
We'll probably see it when they put XLs in, which should be equivalent to 1600s.
Looking good overall :D
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WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.10.13 05:49:00 -
[27]
ôI'll see you tomorrow on test hopefully to test your new passively tanked Dominix. That way you can compare to yesterday.ö
I will be on but we might have to put off testing or limit testing. I was getting crazy results yesterday due to a stacking bug when using more then 1 hardeners. 98%+ to everything. Hopefully its fixed today.
The good news is I have twice as much CPU free for decent 425mm railguns.
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Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:16:00 -
[28]
hmmmm
I wonder if the sig penalty is effected by painters, or even worse MWD's
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:18:00 -
[29]
I would expect it to be affected in the same was as your normal sig radius.
Ie: Total sig (base+extender penalty) * mwd/painter penalty multiplier.
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WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P |
Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2005.10.13 08:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Some very good news here regarding shield tanking.
It would be nice to have more mids to play with on shield tanking ships smaller than BS's, so that these nice mods can actually be fitted in pvp (which seemed to be one reason for the changes).
I was thinking about proposing propulsion mods (ab/mwd) to be fitted in low slots instead of mids, so that your typical pvp stuffs (propulsion mod/web/scram) impacts armor tanking a bit more and shield tanking a bit less. I'm not feeling like being flamed today, for whatever good or bad reason, so i'm not (really) doing it.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Ditto on the first thing.
I only disagree with lowering AB`s to lows. Low slots in my easy should be reserved for basic non active systems only, meaning passive.
It iw was lowerd, all my minmatar setup would be screwed because then I would not be able to fit a rcu/pdu to fit the weapons.
Solution to the problem if what me and nafri proposed, more specialized med hardpoints(and low), by narfi called utility hps/EW hps. So that adding 2 med slots to a 3 med slot ship wont turn in to a "I WIN" button.
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