That, combined with the new tracking bonus along with increased agility and speed will hopefully provide for a very powerful laser platform.

TYPHOON FLEET ISSUE
With the Typhoon Fleet Issue we wanted to offer a home for the heavily trained Minmatar pilot who loves the extreme versatility that Matar can offer. To make that possible, while also picking up some of the new flavor from the tech 1 Typhoon, we are giving this ship the same treatment as the new Scythe Fleet Issue by making the split weapon bonus stronger. The Typhoon Fleet Issue will also be the GÇÿattackGÇÖ battleship, and like its former version, it is extremely fast for a battleship.

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+7.5% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 7L(-1); 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 13000 PWG(-125), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 9000(-316) / 9000(-316)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5800(+800) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 138(-5) / .11(-.0001) / 102600000 (-1000000) / 14.93s(-.059s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 200
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Ladar Sensor Strength(+.5)
Signature radius: 320

Because Giving the Fleet Phoon 9.6 effective launchers is just a teeeny bit OP mate. As it is, it gets 9.2 and the best missile alpha of any subcap.

Some really cool stuff. Navy Apoc and Scorp are the big winners here, but the Raven and Phoon also look sexual. I do appreciate the throwback nature of the Navy Domi, as well.

There are some significant changes with cruise missiles and missile platforms in general. The final thing that I think is holding cruise missiles back is the HP of the missile itself. The cruise missile has the same HP as a heavy missile combined with a slower speed. The translation, of course, is that the missiles can be smartbombed off fairly trivially. That and the cruise missile platforms aren't exactly mobile. It would be a shame if these great ships get marginalized because of missile mechanics.

Until there's an ewar that works on missiles like TDs do, I think it's good that smartbombs can counter them

I strongly disagree with this. You're nerfing the torp RNI in favor of the cruise variant, and go so far as to explicitly tell us you're basing the entire ship design off of cruise. Then you keep the cruise missile velocity bonus. Given that you're pigeon holing the ship into cruise, doesn't it make far more sense to trade the velocity bonus for the explosion radius bonus instead?

For PvE specifically, I'd rather drop the target painter and keep the rigors (In fact I'll probably go to 2x T2 Rigor, 1x T2 Flare), because juggling the painter is annoying and :effort:

That gives 2 mids to play with, and I'm looking at a boost amp and drone mod so that I can use medium drones instead of lights to kill frigates....

It's not the same result, though: it's qualitatively superior in damage application and alpha.

They'll both be equally good for shooting structures and capitals, I suppose. For anything else, the CNR will be a quantum step ahead.

Is there any plans on the torpedo's ?
As Liang has already "proved" .. the raven is put up for being a cruise missile ship, and torpedos are still bad.

Can you propose a scenario where the CNR will be worse on June 5th than it is right now?

So you abandoned the Amarr re-balancing thread despite the heavy criticism on the Apoc changes and made the same changes the the napoc.

I think we all understand the meaning of asking for feedback a little better now.

wait what?

wait what?

In this thread alone, "the community" has complained both that the Fleet Typhoon is "useless" and "grossly OP". Similar dichotimies are presented for the other ships. Which view should we be representing, in your view of the CSM?

This is only true if you completely ignore the Signature/explosion-radius part of the equation...

Thank GOD you didnt ruin the navy geddon. That's about all.

PS: LOL at the navy apoc changes :P lost cap, cap use AND tank? on a scale of 1-Lots, how mad is RnK right about now?

Can you give me a scenario where the CNR post June 5th won't be better than it is now?

Can you give me a scenario where the CNR post June 5th won't be better than it is now?

Thank GOD you didnt ruin the navy geddon. That's about all.

PS: LOL at the navy apoc changes :P lost cap, cap use AND tank? on a scale of 1-Lots, how mad is RnK right about now?

What you've said is true, but not related to the ship. Instead, this is related to the CM Buff. The current slot-layout and bonus's would be better in a lot of cases (like shooting other BS's, or Caps/ structures). While the new slot-layout only favours PvP in the absence of other TP's and webs.

You can't call it a CNR buff just because the weapon gets buffed. Infact, the CNR gets a nerf which isn't even remotely compensated by the buff it gets. While the new CNR is a bit better at solo PvP'ing, this isn't remotely helpful, as noone will use them at PvP, just because the standard-raven will perform equally, especially if grouped with fleet support.

That's the whole point of my rage, the CNR gets a questionable "buff", while it's beeing nerf for the majority of cases. I agree that it still seems balanced (!), given that it will project almost 1k dps at long distances, but:

is the Faction price tag worth that? For PvE, the Golem and the freakin SNI will perform better (golem has double dmg-application bonus and an active Tank bonus, while the SNI provides more significantly more tank than the CNR, with almost equal damage).

The only reason to use the CNR is it's range, so it's either Torps or GTFO, as it's likely that noone will need the speed-bonus for CM's. Therefore, the CNR will be weaker than almost every single alternative in the majority of the cases.

That's why this change is not well thought out, and that's why I'm raging.

Guess you didn't catch the sarcasm dude. I read the whole thread but you seem to only hark on about the CNR.

I've mentioned it in this thread. I'll be pushing for a review of this stat because I don't see why the Navgeddon needs to be so fat.

For their price tags they are just horrible. And some are even more horrible than their t1 counterparts.

Here is the main idea behind tiercide:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/9129

...and here is the relevant picture about Navy stuff

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Shiptech_1920.jpg

So current CNR is performing better than Golem, which is a specialized T2 ship.

After the patch it will still be a great improvement from T1, but Golem will outperform it at its specialized area.

/me looks at the picture again.

Tiercide working as intended.

They adressed CNR's shortcoming of cruise missiles for PvP. An inbuilt non-stacking target painter + very fast missiles for fast damage application. For both PvP and PvE it is a better choice than its t1 version, albeit at a higher price. The tech2 PvE ship outperforms it for PvE.

Yup. Working as intended.

Old CNR:

http://scr.hu/4s/uu30c

New CNR:

http://scr.hu/4s/ldtjp




And plenty of CPU with 3xRigor missile stats:

http://scr.hu/4s/nnsdx

Why comparing CNR to Golem if Golem will be changed, like all marauders, maybe even with totally different bonuses/roles.
CCP have the long term plan and they know what they doing. Just stop posting nonsens ffs...

Dude, seriously.. get a Golem. Best advice you can probably get.

After all, you have the mini Golem allready.. shouldn't be much of a change (and might actually improve your missile experience).

There is just no reason to fly a CNR in PvE any longer.

How should the Golem be differentiated from the CNR?

Fleet Phoon
This ship is superior to the CNR for the same reason that the old CNR was superior to the old Golem - the extra raw damage output overwhelms the superior damage application.

Phoon: 8.25 effective launchers
CNR: 8 effective launchers

The CNR has two damage application bonuses; missile velocity and explosion radius.

I don't think that "overwhelm" is the appropriate verb for doing 33/32 = 3.12% more raw DPS.

In fact I'm going to go right ahead and say that the CNR (and ipso facto the Golem) is a significantly superior missile platform to the Fleet Phoon.

I have also raised the issue of torp launcher fitting costs with CCP Rise and he agreed that they're out of synch with the way that SR/LR turret fittings work. Whether this will translate into a change in the immediate future will be for him to tell us.

One of my pet peeves about missiles is that there are no low-tier options to enable fitting compromises.

I specifically said "missile platform".

Those are meta, not tier.



Say you're fitting your Megathron and you discover that you just can't get your fit to work with 7x 450mm II Rails. You have the option to drop to 350mm II Rails, losing some range, and gaining some tracking by fitting lower tier guns with reduced fitting requirements.


If you're fitting Torp launchers to your Raven, and you just can't get 6 to fit with the rest of your mods, then you have to drop one launcher, losing 1/6th of your primary DPS with no gain in any other attribute. There are no "low tier" launcher options that have a penalty to missile velocity but better explosion radius or more damage and less RoF, in return for reduced fitting costs.

Guristas are Caldari + Gallente, not jsut Caldari.

And you're seriously asking why a pirate faction ship is better than a navy faction ship?

"easymode"
"hardmode"
"tankmode"

If you want to invest another 2.5M SP (and more ISK) and you are OK with juggling Target Painters, then the Golem will incrementally outperform the CNR at PvE, which is exactly what a T2 ship should do.

Hmm, could be because Pirate BS are going to be rebalanced another time. But wait, that's way too obscure isn't it?

Maybe you should go read the changelog on : Page 1 .

Yes it gets more cap regen to offset capdrain on weapons.

I don't think you get what "tiercide" means. It means "death to tiers".

Now I don't think you get what "tier" means. It implies a heirarchy.

So which is best out of Attack and Combat?

BTW the new CNR is MUCH better for pvE han it used to be. I mean a lot.

That reason is that people are stuck in the old ways\EFT warriors... get one, shield fit it and try it is all I can say..

I love how several people were always foretelling that exactly this would be what happens and yet the whining didn't stop and people claimed the CNR was broken and useless :D

Now that Odyssey is live not a single post on how the CNR is bad.

I feel like a black woman in hindsight

fixed



#1 you cannot seperate the Ship from it's primary weapon any more than you can sperate a Nightmare from Tachyons (apologies to you Pulsemare wackos).

#2, no, a typhoon hull can't do some of the things a CNR can do because you need a serious shiled tank to do it

#3. as has been pointed out, you're looking in the wrong direction, the Phoons might need looking at, the CNR is imo (and apprently in CCPs opinion so far) perfectly ok.

[stupid forums ate post - let's try again]

Okay, if the regular Raven performed as well as the CNR, the mission wasn't hard enough for it to matter what you were flying.

The CNR has a considerably better tank, is faster and more agile, has better lock time, higher sustained DPS (because it needs to reload its launchers less often), and better applied DPS on anything smaller than battleships (and on BS as well if you use Fury on them). The CNR also has a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth, as an added little bonus.

TL;DR: You are wrong.