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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.15 21:54:00 -
[1]
Seeing that missiles are the current favorite whipping boy in the game... it's no real surprise that Phoenix pilots are stuck with only one weapon choice for Dreads - Citadel torpedos.
Is there any plan to introduce a cruise launcher for Dreads? The current borked sig radii of POS structures will castrate torp damage... not to mention the laughable damage Citadel torps do to most ships. Add to this the fact that missile have no wrecking shots and a Phoenix with torps is more like a parakeet.
It would be great to see some missile launcher alternatives for Caldari Dread pilots.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.10.15 21:58:00 -
[2]
Ok, Ill agree there the Citadel torps should do 80% dmg on battleships and 100% on pos's and stations.
Hello. |
Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 10:05:00 -
[3]
we all agree, but theres no action taken : (
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Hannah Loan
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Posted - 2005.10.16 10:18:00 -
[4]
Errrm.....so why don't you simply mount a CM-launcher???
Maybe i'm missing a point over here, but you want a "weapon" that already exists?
Or do you want an extra "icanpwnposandbsandbcandcruiseranditwouldbelovelyifitpwnsfrigsaswell"-weaponry???  
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Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 10:43:00 -
[5]
CM-launcher ?
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.10.16 10:46:00 -
[6]
There is no XL-CM-missilelauncher.
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel
Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.10.16 11:42:00 -
[7]
There is also no XL-Heavy Beam Laser or XL-720mm arty, well guess what dreads are not the pwnALL-ship you might have thought. Though I agree that citadels should do full dmg on POS.
Wreaking shots? Thats the trade off for the "always hit" feature you get with missiles.
Go use any other dread and you'd be suprised to even hit something thats moving faster than 100m/s!
Intercepting since BETA |
Taraniis
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Posted - 2005.10.16 12:11:00 -
[8]
Yet another Caldari moaning about missiles. Just load a cruise missile launcher for crying out loud.
Now before you have a go at me for suggesting such a devious and sickening act of commons sense, maybe you should note the irony. The only dread really any good at hurting smaller craft is the Moros, but thats only through its ability to use a lag inducing amount of drones.
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Joe
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Posted - 2005.10.16 12:29:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Kunming
There is also no XL-Heavy Beam Laser or XL-720mm arty, well guess what dreads are not the pwnALL-ship you might have thought.
Actually There is a xl beam varient, and xl pulse varient, just as there is an xl rail, and blaster.
It would make sense that Caldari dreads get 2 different Missle varients. Or is the Xl Rail the other option for caldari bs?
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.10.16 12:30:00 -
[10]
no Cm launcher for dreads unless we get a Capital nost.
i want a moros with 3 capital nosts.
mowhahaha
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Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 12:44:00 -
[11]
so the dreads are still unfinished : ( i want phoenix so much, but i dont want to be destroyed by 3 bs's
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.10.16 13:11:00 -
[12]
o and don't forget that capital smartbomb.
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Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 13:18:00 -
[13]
indeed : )
but still it isnt so good, think how long would dread lock a bs, about 30secs : (
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franny
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Posted - 2005.10.16 13:48:00 -
[14]
cap nos would scare me
You know, a war is boring when the side that declared the war doesn't even show
you here that Free Traders, stop hiding 40ish jumps away in another region |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2005.10.16 13:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Taraniis
Yet another Caldari moaning about missiles. Just load a cruise missile launcher for crying out loud.
Now before you have a go at me for suggesting such a devious and sickening act of commons sense, maybe you should note the irony. The only dread really any good at hurting smaller craft is the Moros, but thats only through its ability to use a lag inducing amount of drones.
stop acting like a retard!
"We brake for nobody"
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DeepfriedTator
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Posted - 2005.10.16 14:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kunming
There is also no XL-Heavy Beam Laser or XL-720mm arty, well guess what dreads are not the pwnALL-ship you might have thought. Though I agree that citadels should do full dmg on POS.
Wreaking shots? Thats the trade off for the "always hit" feature you get with missiles.
Go use any other dread and you'd be suprised to even hit something thats moving faster than 100m/s!
Yes the ALWAYS HIT FEATURE.. Are you kidding... Okay i will agree with you they always hit... your hit does 0.4 damage or 5.4 damage instead of the full damage. you can't just say the always hits.. thats no longer a valid statement. when was the last time you saw a torp or a cruise missle hit a building or ship and because it was a small house or a small boat do hardly any damage..... most times you get a pothole or a sinking ship.
not a complaint.. just tired of people saying missle always hit. yes they do ... but 0.3 and 1.2 dam hits might as well be a miss. and don't say get your skills up got all of the new ones to 4. well the main point of the rant and rave is they need to fix the dread torps. give the caldari a reacharound if your going to give it to us atleast
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.16 14:37:00 -
[17]
"There is also no XL-Heavy Beam Laser or XL-720mm arty, well guess what dreads are not the pwnALL-ship you might have thought."
But there is xl-autocannon and xl-artillery. As well as xl-beam and xl-pulse. As well as xl-blaster and xl-railgun.
Yet there's only xl-torpedo launcher, and no xl-cruise.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.10.16 16:07:00 -
[18]
Everyone goes around saying "maybe dreads aren't the pwn all ships you thought they'd be" and "dreads suck for PVP" etc etc... doesn't it strike you as odd that the devs were saying Dreadnoughts ARE the top of the PVP food chain? And that we shouldn't expect much fight out of Titans or other capital ships because Dreads are as good as we get?
They're kinda crap for 'as good as we get' ;\
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.10.16 16:25:00 -
[19]
Just a question about the Moros.
It's drones can't get through a POS field, can they?
If they can't, the Moros still has 3 XL guns hitting for full damage, not bad.
And drones do full damage to ships, from interceptors to battleships, and with 1000 m¦ dronebay you can kill a lot of drones before the ship runs out of 'I rule them all' weapon.
With 300m¦ dronebay, the Phoenix, on the other hand, is only 2 heavies better than a geddon, heh
Kill mails |
Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 16:36:00 -
[20]
im just saying that ccp must put xl cruise, or get like 100% dmg on structures & 80-70% on bs's, then it would be rather ballanced
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.16 17:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kunming
There is also no XL-Heavy Beam Laser or XL-720mm arty, well guess what dreads are not the pwnALL-ship you might have thought. Though I agree that citadels should do full dmg on POS.
Wreaking shots? Thats the trade off for the "always hit" feature you get with missiles.
Go use any other dread and you'd be suprised to even hit something thats moving faster than 100m/s!
There are two options for each X-Large turret type - two XL lasers, two XL hybrids, two XL projectiles... yet there is only one XL missile launcher.
The constantly regurgitated argument of 'but your missiles always hit and that makes them awesome' is complete and utter nonsense. How about this? You trade me your wrecking shots for my missiles hitting for 2.4 points of damage every time.
Do the math. One very, very light wrecking shot from an XL turret will hit for WELL over 2000... but let's just use the round number of 2000 for sake of simplicity. That single shot equates to approximately ONE THOUSAND MISSILES.
Granted... I understand that Dreads went in with balancing needed... which is precisely why I am trying to start up a thread regarding this matter.
At the moment a large POS... with large turrets and various buildings costs VERY little to construct and maintain. It would take contstant operation of that POS for well over a year to equate to only a portion of the cost of a Dread. Now factor in how much money that POS is going to make in that year...
That fact on top of the Phoenix using sub-par missiles does NOT make it an attractive option.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.10.16 17:55:00 -
[22]
I'd like to see a new long range missile for the dreads, I even have a name for it  . Dread missile. similar to cruise missile but with ranges and damage fitting for the Dread(also has FoF ability)
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The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Dragy
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Posted - 2005.10.16 18:14:00 -
[23]
now i dont know what to doo =( if nothing changes ill drop dread thing and will be flying bs's and will go for t2 bs's. this will be the only way. only phoenix is a good looking dread, but its 2 weak with citadel torps atm : (
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.10.16 19:26:00 -
[24]
While this is indeed a problem, there is the common sense work around right now to simply have your mates put 4 sensor dampners on the target.
It doesn't mean there isn't a problem, but there is a simple work around for the time being.
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2005.10.16 19:43:00 -
[25]
I agree missiles should be doing full damage to structures, problem is I don't know how easy is that to implement.
However, I don't think they need a cruise launcher. Even if every other dread can choose between 2 different guns, the choice is between long range and short range. If dreads had the ability of mounting uber cruise missile launchers with a rocket launcher's RoF, well, that would pretty much pwn everything within 250km. A good answer would be to add a new kind of XL missile, with less payload than the citadel torpedo but way faster to cover the long range weapon the naglfar and the phoenix now lack. An easier fix would be upping the speed on citadel torps so that they can work on both roles and there's no need for a second launcher.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.16 20:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd
I agree missiles should be doing full damage to structures, problem is I don't know how easy is that to implement.
However, I don't think they need a cruise launcher. Even if every other dread can choose between 2 different guns, the choice is between long range and short range. If dreads had the ability of mounting uber cruise missile launchers with a rocket launcher's RoF, well, that would pretty much pwn everything within 250km. A good answer would be to add a new kind of XL missile, with less payload than the citadel torpedo but way faster to cover the long range weapon the naglfar and the phoenix now lack. An easier fix would be upping the speed on citadel torps so that they can work on both roles and there's no need for a second launcher.
I would love to see such a solution. However, I think such incredible flexibility with ammo might create too great an advantage over turrets and turret ammo.
One missile launcher type being able to fire such huge variations of ammo would be pretty damn powerful. It would be akin to having a turret that could be either a blaster or a railgun with only a single reload.
I do think CCP will provide a proper solution... both to current missile issues and to the Phoenix specifically. However, I hope the solution is on the horizon and not months away.
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.16 22:29:00 -
[27]
One very significant comment that I would like to add to my last post (which I am choosing to make as a reply and not an edit since it is a HUGE qualification) -
With the Phoenix doing incredibly poor damage due to sig radii issues and missile math... add in the effect a single defender missile can have on a Phoenix's DPS.
That seems incredibly unbalanced to me for some reason. A Phoenix... flagship of the Caldari fleet, most powerful Caldari ship in the game, losing 33% of it's DPS to a single defender missile.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.16 23:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tovarishch
add in the effect a single defender missile can have on a Phoenix's DPS.
That seems incredibly unbalanced to me for some reason. A Phoenix... flagship of the Caldari fleet, most powerful Caldari ship in the game, losing 33% of it's DPS to a single defender missile.
Uhh a citadel torp has 650hp. It would take 9 defenders to take down one torp so wtf are you going on about?
Oh and have you ever heard of tracking disruptors
Now besides this pointless whining i do agree that there should be another dread missile launcher and that citadel torps should do full damage on structures.
________________________________________________________
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2005.10.17 00:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd
I agree missiles should be doing full damage to structures, problem is I don't know how easy is that to implement.
However, I don't think they need a cruise launcher. Even if every other dread can choose between 2 different guns, the choice is between long range and short range. If dreads had the ability of mounting uber cruise missile launchers with a rocket launcher's RoF, well, that would pretty much pwn everything within 250km. A good answer would be to add a new kind of XL missile, with less payload than the citadel torpedo but way faster to cover the long range weapon the naglfar and the phoenix now lack. An easier fix would be upping the speed on citadel torps so that they can work on both roles and there's no need for a second launcher.
I would love to see such a solution. However, I think such incredible flexibility with ammo might create too great an advantage over turrets and turret ammo.
One missile launcher type being able to fire such huge variations of ammo would be pretty damn powerful. It would be akin to having a turret that could be either a blaster or a railgun with only a single reload.
I do think CCP will provide a proper solution... both to current missile issues and to the Phoenix specifically. However, I hope the solution is on the horizon and not months away.
I did not explain myself as well as I might have liked. The new missile I was talking about should have it's own launcher ;).
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.10.17 00:01:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 17/10/2005 00:06:41
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Tovarishch
add in the effect a single defender missile can have on a Phoenix's DPS.
That seems incredibly unbalanced to me for some reason. A Phoenix... flagship of the Caldari fleet, most powerful Caldari ship in the game, losing 33% of it's DPS to a single defender missile.
Uhh a citadel torp has 650hp. It would take 9 defenders to take down one torp so wtf are you going on about?
Oh and have you ever heard of tracking disruptors
Now besides this pointless whining i do agree that there should be another dread missile launcher and that citadel torps should do full damage on structures.
Last I heard missile hit points have no relevance on the fact that it takes one defender to blow a missile up... that may have changed... dunno.
However, your repeated and deliciously ironic whining about people 'whining' is entertaining. Please keep it up cause it's always worth a laugh.
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