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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Masta Killa
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Posted - 2005.10.18 15:55:00 -
[1]
A long time ago in a galaxy quite close by, the might of warring corps was measured by just how hard their brass balls were and what kind of cool things they had done.
Those days are long since dead and all that's left are self proclaimed guerilla kings.
Being in an alliance is a joke now, all it gives you is more corps camping the local bottlenecks and more people flying around your regions with cloakers, scouts, instas, safespots, pos's and balls the size of gr ape seeds.
Eve doesn't have the slightest hint of a cold war, this is the middle east and you can take one guess at which party us alliances are.
Overusing things is dumb so I'm not going to say I wish SA/CA was back, since it's 90% nostalgia that makes ppl say "Those were the days".
I don't know how but I do know why this game needs changes, any changes to push players away from this "sitting in a hole until some poor sob walks by" sh*t that's ruling Eve.
If Eve keeps becoming more and more of an Al Quaeda guerilla training game then I don't think many people will be playing it in the coming years.
This argument of mine isn't intended for any special corp or alliance, in case anyone's wondering (logging in less than once a week leaves little room for being ganked).
I hope this argument of mine can bring up a discussion of why the current status of Eve is heading in the wrong direction and ofc for arguments against mine.
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Hail Stian Allaince and the emperor who can't spell. ;]
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Cloned Mark
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:01:00 -
[2]
This game was better before Exodus IMO
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:01:00 -
[3]
"don't speak english. Anchor, anchor, anchor"
PoS warfare certainly doesn't help, imo.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:03:00 -
[4]
they need to make more people want to control 0.0, and increase the usefulness of fleet battles (ie nerf the pos spam)
maybe then people in 0.0 will be having big battles again, and those will be what conts instead of the pos' or the guerilla snorefest
Killing the rich and giving to me |
Aeon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:04:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Professor McFly
"don't speak english. Anchor, anchor, anchor".
lol, classic
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Imran
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:07:00 -
[6]
safespot with guns 4tl.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:13:00 -
[7]
stop destroying the evolution... chance is good.. even if all dont like it... maybe next month... " masta killa omg this owns.. thx ccp "... ccp keeps adding new things.. something for everybody
Teddycorp signature... By myal terego
www.evepirates.com/ |
Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:16:00 -
[8]
So your complaining you dont have enough targets?
Just trying to understand what your talking about.
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
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Velios
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Velios on 18/10/2005 16:18:43
The simplicity of EVE that we used to know is now gone, it went with the introduction of T2, then POS's and now capital ships. All of these things though have not ruined EVE for me, they add variety, scope and room for strategies that revolve around more than the size of your fleet.
With a little tweaking the sovereignty situation will be made more acceptable, and it's now possible for industrial power bases to have a real impact on the strength of the alliance they belong to by withholding product from the enemy in ways that simply were not possible with T1.
I enjoy EVE more each day because of these things, and the new situations that arise. But in some respects Masta, I see why you feel this way.
M.Corp BPC Packages |
Intak Atak
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:19:00 -
[10]
Remove bookmarks. It will force people to not claim more space than they can. And it will make the strategy more interesting.
Ohh and the lag will be reduced.
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Drunk Driver
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:32:00 -
[11]
The answer is 42.
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Masta Killa
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
stop destroying the evolution... chance is good.. even if all dont like it... maybe next month... " masta killa omg this owns.. thx ccp "... ccp keeps adding new things.. something for everybody
This evolution (into a bad direction if I might add) is what I'm trying to protest. Everyone flying in small ganking crews isn't something for everybody, it's f-ing boring!
I think Parmizan put it best, a "guerilla snorefest" is what we got all day every day.
Thx for all the replies so fast... I was half expecting like 1 answer or something 
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Hail Stian Allaince and the emperor who can't spell. ;]
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:34:00 -
[13]
i had already thought about a similar post and ended up comparing eve with other mmporgs.
The main difference i found was that eve has one highly praised feature which ironically leads to the worst "negative feature".
You lose isk on taking risks.
Ships, especially the new goodies (faction ships, dreads, implants, t2 items, named t2 items) are all moneysinks and bring a huge loss to those who fit and use them. The risk of beeing shot down doesnt warrant the extra 10% and quiet frankly it puts many ppl off to take risks or to just accept a "fun fight".
In other games ppl are encouraged to get into fights because they have nothing to lose but their honor and maybe that they become a virtual score on somoenes killboard. However in eve you will always wage risk vs reward and then compare it to fun because you put "worktime" (time you need to replay your losses) on the line.
Now before you start shouting "thats what we like and that what makes a victory sweet" think about the "good old days" where ships + equipment costs were nearly fully covered by insurance. Often you met ppl 3-4 times an evening with different ships, because they wanted to fight, enjoyed it and could afford it.
On the otherhand a point i found interesting is the fact that "carebears" got more and more moved out of 0.0. Those were the "easy preys" and ofc the "next generation of pvpers". This removal did the game not a favour because only tough boys, read those who want to win and know when they can win, will stick around in 0.0 while the lesser selfconfident and more money orientated ppl stick to empire (higher rewards compared to the risk of losing stuff in 0.0).
Alliances generally lost out on some of the major drives towards 0.0. Minerals in the early days were the most promising and best money making maschine in eve. These days production and agentrunning took away that flavour.
Alliances in their current form only hold their space because of pride (name on the map 4tw) or because it gurantees them the ability to pvp with foes and neighbours at choice.
Minerals and Npcs in those regions are just a plus (or the only solution for those who hate agentmissions or production).
In the age of PoS no alliance needs multiple regions for its shrinking memberbase anymore, refinerys are close by and help to explore the vast space, ironically while membercounts drop and drop compared to the % of "all players".
If those issues werent enough we also see serious lagproblems, actually denying bigscale fights the fun factor they could have and an ageing community, veterans knowing every trick and every ship by heart and having a reputation often preventing good fights because their opposition tries to outsmart them instead of attempting to beat them in a frontal fight.
Since this is not an alliance or corp orientated post i would prefer if noone tries to make any connection between my personal views/thoughts and actions of my corp / alliance. This is a very objective discussion about gameproblems and shouldnt be tainted by flames or accusations.
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thebold
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:39:00 -
[14]
ang on mastah i got a plan.
wmahaha :p
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Currently Down, Mahhy=lazy |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:41:00 -
[15]
Fleetbattles are not working right now in this game. They are too laggy. Secondly, I think small'ish teams is where the fun is at.
Oh and I disagree with your complaints about the cloaker, damage bs combo. It's fun fun fun... :)
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Darcuese
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Intak Atak
Remove bookmarks. It will force people to not claim more space than they can. And it will make the strategy more interesting.
Ohh and the lag will be reduced.
I agree with this. It would certinaly change current strategies in more then one way. If bookmarks wouldnt exist then maybe warping distance to gate could be cut to 10 km
Can someone point me out to Minmatar Vengance? I have ammo i have to get ridd of |
Kirin
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Posted - 2005.10.18 16:48:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kirin on 18/10/2005 16:50:53
Originally by: Kcel Chim
If those issues werent enough we also see serious lagproblems, actually denying bigscale fights the fun factor they could have and an ageing community, veterans knowing every trick and every ship by heart and having a reputation often preventing good fights because their opposition tries to outsmart them instead of attempting to beat them in a frontal fight.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. With the intense lag that is generated anytime there is 50+ pilots in one system trying to fight. Eve has been reduced down to 10-15 pilot gank squads. Very few alliances or long time pvpers would frown away from full scale fleet engagements if it wasn't for the fact that if you attempt such now you spend the first 5 minutes of your fight trying to get your screen to load, modules to activate, game to respond. After that it doesn't matter cuz you're already in a pod or CTD'd. Large scale battles are a thing of the past because they are no longer tactical operations or who has the better loadout/skills. Now it's all about luck of who can load the game through the lag first. 
Remember the toes you step on today are still connected to the arse you may have to kiss tomorrow.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.10.18 19:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Heinky
There are some things that would definently fix eve alot.
1. Move lvl 4 agents to 0.0 or low sec only(might make empire piracy more interesting)
2. only 1-2 npc station per 0.0 region
3. put more conquareable stations in 0.0 and remove the stupied sovernty rule so people can take the stations without having a force of carebears to setup and fuel pos,s, i think u would get alot more fighting and dedication to defend and atteck.
CCP listen to this man.
Hello. |
Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2005.10.18 19:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Masta Killa
Kcel Chim I'm sorry but you misinterpreted a part of my rant so I'll make it clear; I like losing money because it makes me work harder on winning or not dying the next time.
What I don't like is the constant guerilla fighting that you can't really beat unless you bore them into moving in on your neighbour and ganking him using the same chicken tactics they used on you.
The players in Eve will always try out every option but since the horrible boredom of guerilla warfare is working, most ppl are using it.
you fail to transfer my post on the so called guerilla warfare guys.
They dont fight openly and head on even in small groups because they are afraid of losing.
So ask yourself, why do ppl fit warpcore stabs, why do they fit EW and engage bigish fleets?
Because they can engage and get away.
The problem is not YOU accepting the possible loss but "the majority of players".
You call most kills ganking but that only results from
a) ppl having multiple chances to get away
b) ppl having the abilities to avoid non consentual 1v1 and 2v1 pvp hence gankteams form up.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.10.18 20:33:00 -
[20]
Very very good points in this dicussion!
I also think that
 0.0 isn't rewarding enough
maintaining sovereignty is an exercise in frustration.
those who are not interested in PvP should be respected for their tastes and fit a rewarding role in alliances instead of thinking only about their own wallet
CCP should stop the madness with ever increasing ship costs (dreads are plain silly IMHO) so people can engage for the fun of it
CCP should limit the devastating effects on PvP from the ganking and sniping tactics
CCP should allow manufacturing of tech II and up modules in conquerable stations or outposts only
Kill mails |
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Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2005.10.18 20:43:00 -
[21]
how does any of this relate to corporations?
___________________________________
A spring day at the edge of the world.
On the edge of the world once more the day slants.
The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears
Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
Blue Adept
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Posted - 2005.10.18 21:20:00 -
[22]
I think there's a simple solution to many frustrations:
1. Make a Stargate that is a one-way jump into a 0.0 system with no planets/moons/stations/anything to warp to.
2. Make that system be only 100 km in total distance from end to another.
3. Everyone jump in and nothing gets out :P
-Blue Adept.
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Kroma BaSyl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 21:23:00 -
[23]
4) One out of every 100 jumps from anywhere take you there. <snicker>
Kroma BaSyl
Don't hate me because I am beautiful! |
Darken Two
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Posted - 2005.10.18 21:28:00 -
[24]
I say CCP should remove killmails and people will fight. My experience has been that people resort to lame tactics, ganks and other such annoyances, not because they dont have money to buy more ships but mainly because they are scared of being humiliated on a killboard. I firmly believe taht killmails ruin the game and that mainly why I have never kept and kill mails, registered on any killboard and refuse to post kills or losses. Its a pointless e-peen measuring instrument and nothing more.
On taht note, I'm glad CCP removed killboard discussions from these forums. That has made a subtle difference to the tone of the posts.
Originally by: Blind Fear
Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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Fedaykin Naib
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Masta Killa
Kcel Chim I'm sorry but you misinterpreted a part of my rant so I'll make it clear; I like losing money because it makes me work harder on winning or not dying the next time.
What I don't like is the constant guerilla fighting that you can't really beat unless you bore them into moving in on your neighbour and ganking him using the same chicken tactics they used on you.
The players in Eve will always try out every option but since the horrible boredom of guerilla warfare is working, most ppl are using it.
Ok, thats what I thought you were talking about. Theres nothing wrong with the game or its tactics you've just to many friends and not enough enemies.
"Long Live the Fighters!"
"The weak come and go with time. The strong have remained" - v ger
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Bratzo
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:34:00 -
[26]
Tbh, i dont agree to this at all.
The issue of lag is one thng that does limit the willingness of people to fight.
Appart from that, there are more wars going on atm than in the last 6 months of EvE.
PA, NBSI and FE have just declared empire war on 5
My alliance (G) and IRON are in Empire war with ASCN
BoB just more or less dissolved Imp
Theres plenty of fighting going on, its just not on the 100 vs 101 Uberfleetbattle scale it used to be.
Why arent these epic battles happening anymore?
1. Lag, it used to be bad, now its horrible
2. POS's, why risk several Bil in ships & Mods if you can anchor 3 POS's wich cost about 150mil?
As fleetfights used to be descisive in conquring a system, its the POS's now. you can win the fleetbattle (If you have the luck to load first) but after that, you still have to take out 10 POS's and take down the station shields, then set up your own POS's.
Although this MIGHT be possible, you need logistics and devotion that any RL Corp would be more than proud of.
Its not the players that arent willing to take risks. Its the game mechanics that force people that want to have fun to take risks on a difrent level. Small fleets intruding deep into hostile space for instance. Solo killers willing to wait that extra hour to take out 3 other people.
Acctually, im pretty sure that fleetfights would occure often enough even now, IF the lag didnt prevent a descent fight from the start.
There are more than enough ppl willing to fight for the sake of fighting. But they simply cant. This results in Alliances having more money than they can shake a stick at, because they simply dont loose enough money. Meaning that they can "fortify" thier space even more.
The main issue isnt the Game mechanics (although to counter the POSwars, DNs should be buffed or the POS's nerfed) its the Lag, get rid of it, and ppl will be having huge battles and destroying billions of ISK an hour simply because its fun.
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Emilia White
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: thebold
ang on mastah i got a plan.
wmahaha :p
I've heard this plan, and I fear for the SA empire dwellers if you get your way
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Kirin
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:51:00 -
[28]
/me hugs Bratzo
Remember the toes you step on today are still connected to the arse you may have to kiss tomorrow.
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Orree
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:06:00 -
[29]
Kcel Chim and Kaiser have pretty much hit the nail on the head. Nicely rendered, guys.
What it takes in terms of ships, mods and implants (and the expenses related thereto) to compete in active PvP is staggering. I'm personally fairly well-off, but it wouldn't take long for me to wipe myself out through combat-related losses. Losing T2-fitted ships and getting podded with implants ends up being egregious over time. In some cases, that time-span might be one ganking. I don't even bother ensuring ships anymore..the stuff I fly (T2-fitted T2 ships, a few implants) is uninsurable by any reasonable stretch of the imagination, anyway. As was mentioned earlier, people risk millions (or billions, sometimes) for slim advantage margins. It stands to reason they will be cautious.
People will say, "Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose." They are right, but that line of thinking relegates people to not being able to complete very well, too. In many cases, newer players are well-behind the skill learning curve vis-a-vis veteran PvPers. Not being able to at least match them in tech further exascerbates the problem. I personally don't even bother flying battleships into combat because I can't fit T2 large guns and most people we seem to fight have them. What's the point of bringing a ship to a fight that the risk of getting destroyed outweighs the reward of the damage you might do (assuming you don't get lagged-out and destroyed before your guns even activate)?
I know a lot of people that love PvP, but the grind of being able to afford being an active PvPer is daunting for some. I like that there is a death penalty in EVE. I'm just not sure it has to be as steep as it tends to be. I don't know what the answer is, though.
On another note...very few groups or alliances can go toe-to-toe with the better PvP alliances in this game. It's natural then for these smaller, younger, less affluent alliances to fight using guerilla tactics. You have to use tactics that mitigate your risks while serving as force-multipliers. I personally hate big fleet battles because of lag-issues. Of course, I might like them a bit more if I was regularly lead by the great military leaders in this game. Tenative leadership + lag = teh l0ss..especially against the likes of BoB and [5].
It probably will never happen, but I think the funnest thing that The Five and BoB could do for each other (and maybe EVE in general) is to duke it out amongst themselves. Two like-minded groups, looking for largely the same thing and encompassing the majority of active PvPers in EVE seemingly have nothing to fear from each other...so they turn their attention on smaller, less-willing groups (yes, I know there are exceptions) and wonder why they can't get a stand-up fight.
Five says they can't be destroyed. BoB says they cannot be beaten. Militarily, on the battlefield, I haven't seen too many groups beat them regularly...certainly not enough to crush them with force.
I'm thinking each alliance is the only one who is a serious threat to the other and can provide the kind of fight each is looking for. I don't really know the history and I know both groups appear to like and support each other. I think think a clash would be interesting. Think of it..EVE-wide, factions would possibly be lining up to support one or the other..good vs. evil (or evil vs. evil, as the case may be  ). It would definitely be a Clash of Titans.
I dunno...I guess I can dream, anyway...that's free enough. 
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Princess SinR
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:18:00 -
[30]
Masta Killa I so agree with u.
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