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Aeciro
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Posted - 2005.10.23 02:06:00 -
[91]
Instas or no instas...I no longer go below .5 space until they somehow remove gate camping. The day that happens Eve becomes a whole new game to my friends and I.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.10.23 02:13:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 23/10/2005 02:13:52
 Originally by: Aeciro
Instas or no instas...I no longer go below .5 space until they somehow remove gate camping. The day that happens Eve becomes a whole new game to my friends and I.
The day CCP kills local user list, will be a whole new eve for me too. Everytime you go to belt hunt for miners that are not worth beans in money they just safespot when you jump in.
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.10.23 02:13:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And I repeat, you're not going to be able to use a negative stick to make people come to 0.0. They just won't, in the same way people won't move BPO's into 0.0 regardless of any build time incentives. When you use the stick, you just lose players.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.23 02:14:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Aeciro
Instas or no instas...I no longer go below .5 space until they somehow remove gate camping. The day that happens Eve becomes a whole new game to my friends and I.
No, the day that happens hell freezes over.
I suppose you'd like all of space to be 1.0, just with progressively better ores? Oh, and elves? And leveling up? And +5 swords of Pwnzorlicious?
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forum whoring -  |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.23 03:30:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/10/2005 21:55:08
Sobeseki Pawi, you need a dose of reality. The way things are not, the alliances will tear themselves apart before they start "local wars". You cannot re-write the social landscape of Eve with a technical fix. All you will serve is to destroy the 0.0 population.
Alliances that tear themselves apart because they can't attack people distant from them...well I frankly don't give a damn if they fall apart.
But one thing I'm not convinced you understand is that what is being talked about here is the removal of instas with a game mechanic designed to make travel faster. Not forcing everyone to warp 15 km from a gate.
Then WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL?
I personally say remove the stargate system altogether, it's a cheap excuse for a badly planned system network. Some other people have less radical ideas.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Darkenral
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Posted - 2005.10.23 03:49:00 -
[96]
Nero the reference to DAoC was an analogy, look it up, better yet here from websters online;
Main Entry: analÀoÀgy
Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others
2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike
I realise having dialog not laced with profanity is tough, give it a shot ;)
As an aside FYI, I run the pipe from Taisy to HW and back atm and previously from Orvolle to Fountain all the dam time, with a dam frig/shuttle scouting to make sure my hauler full of zyd/mega makes it ok it's not *snip* rocket science. I am atm relocating my base back out of 0.0 becuase it is just not worth the hassle.
So I couldn't give 2 *snip* what they do w/instas personally, its about making the game more fun.
It is ok for ALL the ppl paying to play a game to have a reasonable expectation of enjoying it right?
The only thing that matters is what the dev's implement and the reaction of the player base thereto.
We will all see in due time what side of this arguement is correct.
Dark
Please don't try to bypass the profanity filter - Teblin.
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Vlad Karamazov
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Posted - 2005.10.23 04:06:00 -
[97]
What most of you forget is that
a) The instas will be removed sooner or later. We dont know when. Devs don't know when. So saying that they will not is just daydreaming.
b) There are things to partialy replace it.
For single player trying to get to the other side of the known universe there is option of just kind of-clone jumping (no idea what happens to implants - I'd like to belive they stay).
For 0.0 alliances there is suposed to be kind of fleet jump that will allow your fleet to travel fast between 2 areas that you own. Which should make defence easier and attack more difficult then now.
For normal travel there are suposed to be modules and/or skills that will make it faster. Same as it is now - If I want my rax to go faster I put nanofibre in it ( I'm crazy I know). It nerfs my tank but it gives me new other combat options against specific targets. Trade of. Same what the instas module will be.
What I would like to know is what will happen to the other uses of BMs. For safespoting and geting within system to places like mates mission warpgate or mission drops after you finish mission and want to go back in a cargo ship with MWD.
What about having places around belts BMed so you warp in next a roid and can start mining and the warp to the same place to pick the can with ore.
What about places like 400-800km from a gate to have a look who is camping it. What about 200km from the gate for a gank. Not only pirates want to gank. Ganks work on pirates as well as on anybody else and shame more ppl do not try it.
What I am trying to say the BMs/Instas are used not only in the avoid a blockade and travel fast kind of way.
Some of those other uses are so well supported by the game how can they be removed?
Example:
No BMs = no safespots so whats the point of probes and some ships bonusses supporting probes.
Is going to be that no BMs within say 50km from a gate?
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.23 04:19:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Darkenral
Nero the reference to DAoC was an analogy, look it up, better yet here from websters online;
I know it was an analogy, but it was a bad one. DAoC and EVE are very different games. It'd be like me saying we should all be able to walk around with guns in our hands, because Half Life does that, and HL is a good game.
Originally by: Darkenral
I realise having dialog not laced with profanity is tough, give it a shot ;)
You do realise the irony of saying that and then swearing multiple times yourself?
Originally by: Darkenral
As an aside FYI, I run the pipe from Taisy to HW and back atm and previously from Orvolle to Fountain all the dam time, with a dam frig/shuttle scouting to make sure my hauler full of zyd/mega makes it ok it's not *snip* rocket science. I am atm relocating my base back out of 0.0 becuase it is just not worth the hassle.
Thanks for proving me right. It's possible to avoid being ganked. Making it any easier would just be pointless - yes, you could then do it solo, but is that what we want? The high-end content of the game soloable? That just devalues it.
What we need is more incentive to entering 0.0. Something that would make it worth the hassle.
Originally by: Darkenral
It is ok for ALL the ppl paying to play a game to have a reasonable expectation of enjoying it right?
Not if they have incorrect expectations of the game, and then try to change it when they realise it isn't what they thought it was. EVE isn't a PvE game. The PvE, frankly, sucks. Missions are repetitive and tedious, the worst kind of grind. And there are almost literally hundreds of MMORPGs out there that have excellent PvE components. So if you want to play a game where you PvE, have fun, and don't get hassled by gankers, go play them.
This is not an insult, it's common ******* sense.
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forum whoring - |
Dak Hakin
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Posted - 2005.10.23 05:09:00 -
[99]
Well, no matter what CCP does, there is no chance that everyone will be happy...
_______________________________________________
I lost my parrot
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WolfGang H
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Posted - 2005.10.23 08:01:00 -
[100]
"WolfGang H, dead wrong. I AM an inty pilot. And I'm very much against removal at the present time."
I never said all interceptor pilots are for removing instas. I simply said no slow moving ship person, other than a blobber, would even think of sugesting insta be removed with nothing to compensate for it.
"And if you are moving heavy ships, YES< you should use a scout. Move *10* nhaulers with 2 scouts. Much better ratio, eh?"
No. Not at all. Any time I want to move something in 0.0 I have to wait untill primetime when my corp mates are on, wait for them to get theuir haulers loaded, and wait for 2 pilots to scout for us? Sorry, only roleplayers, story writers, and people who have no clue what they are talking about would really suggest that.
---
<a href="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=236499"</a> |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2005.10.23 08:32:00 -
[101]
Well I'm waiting for this single change like a few years ...
in my case this very issue will decide if I ever will really enjoy this game again ...
And I'm all in favor of removing them, and in my case I dont think we even need a compensation but bleh ... this wont happen 
the impact on haulers may be the greatest disadvantage at the beginning but exactly this one on the other hand will in the end benefit us all. how? simply put it will favor teamwork, even more it means less minerals which in the end means higher prices which is an isk sink! Afterall those haulers who stay alive will be rewareded even more ...
regarding combat ... well cant think of a single reason how this would damage the combat system at all ... but bleh ... many do find a retarded reason
a change is needed ... however the decision they make on this one will have more of an impact than any other expansion we had so far.
Greetings Grim |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.23 12:53:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Vlad Karamazov
Is going to be that no BMs within say 50km from a gate?
It's have to be no BM's within ~120km of the gate. Think about warp-to distances...
WolfGang H, Then use a blockade runner. You know, the nifty fast T2 indys. But don't expect to move a fragile ship solo in 0.0. This is a MMO.
Grim, you lie. I saw you in a Freighter in Orvolle the other day. So you're just posturing. Go away.
Nero, people DO leave when you nerf things. This isn't even up for debate. How MANY people leave? Well, that's a different matter. You're being extremely selfish with YOUR PoV - you can't see beyond your PvP. Look at the people poppin in here to agree with me, neh? Yes, they're unknowns and carebears. But there's a lot more of them then there are types like us.
If you make 0.0 essential, all you will do is force a lot of people out of the game because they won't be able to have fun. And yes, Mega and Zyd costs would go up. It's happened before (frex when CCP nerfed the mega and zyd from T2 components - PS, CCP, you said one day I'd regret recycling them. When will this day be, because it's sure not happened yet. Heh). It was ncessary because of mineral prices THEN - but mineral prices are FINE at the moment. It's *perfectly* profitable to mine in 0.0.
If people are not, then it's more due to y'know, WARS, than anything.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
maximyus
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Posted - 2005.10.23 13:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Aeciro
Instas or no instas...I no longer go below .5 space until they somehow remove gate camping. The day that happens Eve becomes a whole new game to my friends and I.
No, the day that happens hell freezes over.
I suppose you'd like all of space to be 1.0, just with progressively better ores? Oh, and elves? And leveling up? And +5 swords of Pwnzorlicious?
You sir are a **** not everyone in this game wants to get ganked by u and 50 of ur friends ,people play this game for different reason so why not ket the guy have his say without flaming him u got nothing better to do than troll this forum .
Flame away like i care i do have a life get laid LOSERS ;p |
Darkenral
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Posted - 2005.10.23 15:03:00 -
[104]
What we need is more incentive to entering 0.0. Something that would make it worth the hassle.
OMG in a round about weird kinda way Nero & I agree on something.
<Will need to give this serious thought, something must be wrong>
=P
Dark
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Vlad Karamazov
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Posted - 2005.10.24 01:28:00 -
[105]
Any incentive to enter 0.0 will have to result in better characters for ppl doing that. More money , better implants or modules. However the ppl to benefit from it will not be ppl who ask for it now but mainly ppl who are already in 0.0. They have the infrastructure to exploit such boosts much faster and better then 0.1+ based corps. So more funky stuff in 0.0 = stronger 0.0 alliances being able to enforce anti carebears rules even better.
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WolfGang H
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Posted - 2005.10.24 02:14:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
WolfGang H, Then use a blockade runner. You know, the nifty fast T2 indys. But don't expect to move a fragile ship solo in 0.0. This is a MMO.
T2 haulers are a total waste of money for 0.0. They only carry a significantly higer amount of volume if you fit them with hundreds of millions in expanders, which is not smart to do in 0.0. Sure, you can fit MWD and they have good resistances, but in many cases if 3+ ships are webbing/scrambling you whether you have 1000 hp or 60,000 hp you are still gonig to die. I'd chose an iteron V over a t2 blockade runner for routine transporting needs any day.
Taking out instas without any alternate travel method being implemented (like that one persons WARP CAPACITOR idea!) would destroy 0.0.
The most basic activity one can do in 0.0 is travel. Nerf it so one person cannot even travel with any degree of saftey and you will see even less people trying to check 0.0 out. Even with the current instabookmark system there is a good deal of danger when traveling through 0.0, unless you are in a fast/agile ship.
---
<a href="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=236499"</a> |
DirkPitt
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Posted - 2005.10.25 11:44:00 -
[107]
now i just cant decide whether i want insta's or not, but i do think sniping gates should be made more difficult if insta's are nerfed
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Shiraz Merlot
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Posted - 2005.10.25 12:17:00 -
[108]
There should just be systems for actively countering instas.
I have a proposal for Gate Scramblers and/or Mobile Deadspace Generators here.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.25 12:20:00 -
[109]
thats what bubbles are for but in 0.0 only perhaps low sec bubble generator ?
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Shiraz Merlot
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Posted - 2005.10.25 13:42:00 -
[110]
Originally by: sonofollo
thats what bubbles are for but in 0.0 only perhaps low sec bubble generator ?
No it's the opposite. You can't warp out of bubbles. You can't warp in to a deadspace.
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Sirial Soulfly
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Posted - 2005.10.25 19:50:00 -
[111]
I really do not understand why people want to keep the current insta system, personally it irritates the hell out of me, try copying 600 of them , are you enjoying that ?, when done try copying them back from where you got them, are we having fun yet ?
Besides what is the difference between a freighter and an inty ? velocity wise ? none when you have instas.
Now to safely fly around lower sec systems with this insta system is cramping my style, i dont like it, something new has to be created, something user friendly, something automatic.
Something way way better, I believe CCP will be able to do this, at least I hope they will because this game deserves something better.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.25 22:33:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/10/2005 21:55:08
Sobeseki Pawi, you need a dose of reality. The way things are not, the alliances will tear themselves apart before they start "local wars". You cannot re-write the social landscape of Eve with a technical fix. All you will serve is to destroy the 0.0 population.
Alliances that tear themselves apart because they can't attack people distant from them...well I frankly don't give a damn if they fall apart.
But one thing I'm not convinced you understand is that what is being talked about here is the removal of instas with a game mechanic designed to make travel faster. Not forcing everyone to warp 15 km from a gate.
Then WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL?
I personally say remove the stargate system altogether, it's a cheap excuse for a badly planned system network. Some other people have less radical ideas.
The alternative would be a completely different game to Eve, and you know it.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.10.25 23:48:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/10/2005 21:55:08
Sobeseki Pawi, you need a dose of reality. The way things are not, the alliances will tear themselves apart before they start "local wars". You cannot re-write the social landscape of Eve with a technical fix. All you will serve is to destroy the 0.0 population.
Alliances that tear themselves apart because they can't attack people distant from them...well I frankly don't give a damn if they fall apart.
But one thing I'm not convinced you understand is that what is being talked about here is the removal of instas with a game mechanic designed to make travel faster. Not forcing everyone to warp 15 km from a gate.
Then WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL?
I personally say remove the stargate system altogether, it's a cheap excuse for a badly planned system network. Some other people have less radical ideas.
The alternative would be a completely different game to Eve, and you know it.
Different to how Eve is now yes. But how is that a bad thing since obviously the way it is now creates the biggest problem it faces.
~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
Caerleus
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Posted - 2005.10.26 00:51:00 -
[114]
hmm ok, so how to satisfy all camps..
People want fast travel, some safety if possible, but others also want the ability to engage targets.
Now this is an assumption, that most of the bad points about instas occur in low sec and beyond to 0.0.
Now, if this assumption holds out to be true, it means we can use the jumpgates and sec rating of the system itself to govern jump distances.
Something along the lines of 1.0 space is perfect gates..0km..bang your on top of them..then every sec level lower, you add 1.5km to the distance.
So out in 0.0, you can only warp to 15km.
This could be put down to the technology in the gates.
Higher sec gates provide better signals etc for your warp engines.
With that,you could also then create a new skill and a new module, that allows you to compensate for siganl loss and allow you to warp closer to the gates.
As a counter against that, another skill and module could be created that could be used to limit the gate signal, thereby increasing the warp in distance.
Any gate to gate instas could then be deleted, leaving mining instas and safe spots useable...although..it would be far better if they also made scan probes spherical like the scanner.
It sounds overly simplistic but would hopefully increase game speed for those that need it whilst still allowing the PVP aspect to develope.
It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required. |
Aeciro
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Posted - 2005.10.26 01:16:00 -
[115]
Wow lol..I did aggravate atleast one gate ganking ***** didn't I heh.
Naw I think PvP belongs in Eve. The only thing I don't think belongs (in any game) is zone line camping.
IMO the damage to the game from instas is obvious...and it is a good thing they're looking at it. But that's just my opinion.
But then IMO people who PvP at gates ganking people as they gate in and out are pansy wannabees. Again..just my opinion.
Personally I think we need LESS high sec space. But no way to pvp right around gates. Then again the person whos ire I raised doesn't actually care what I think heh.
Sigh...a pwnz0rlicious sword would be cool though...
In the end we're not playing in our world...in our game. We're playing in CCP's...and whatever they decide is gonna be the way it is. For better or worse those who can hack it will..and those who won't will simply choose something else.
Nothin wrong with that. 
Aeciro
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