EVE Search - Orca and MWD+cloak: what do

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Orca and MWD+cloak: what do

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Certainlynot Analt University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 06:40:00 - [1] - Quote I'm having a devil of a time getting the MWD+cloak trick to work on my Orca. As I understand it: Align to target Hit cloak Also immediately hit MWD Cancel MWD so it only goes for one run As the MWD is finishing its run, drop cloak Instantly hit warp I like to think I'm not braindead but I can't get this to work. When the MWD cycle finishes I'm only at about 20 m/s, which is about 25% speed for the Orca, not 75%. I can compensate by dropping cloak about halfway through the MWD cycle, so I spend some time accelerating really quickly courtesy of the MWD, but that means I spend about five seconds accelerating to warp while uncloaked, pointable, and super-easy to lock because of the MWD. What am I doing wrong? (This is for hisec hauling.)
Frillo Teslar 2plus2isfive Nulli Legio 12	Posted - 2013.05.21 06:57:00 - [2] - Quote Certainlynot Analt wrote: What am I doing wrong? (This is for hisec hauling.) It's simple, you're using an orca. The mwd-cloak trick doesn't work on an orca as there are no cap sized MWDs.
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 157	Posted - 2013.05.21 08:16:00 - [3] - Quote Basically, the Orca's too massive to take advantage of the MWD+cloak trick. You can rig an Orca to combine MWD and a brick tank (rig with one ACR, fit T2 damage control and reinforced bulkheads in the lows, use shield hardeners in the mids alongside the MWD), which, while not being invisible, will act as a good deterrent to gankers (200,000 EHP or greater even if your other rigs are Cargohold Optimization) and achieve ten-second warps from a standing start. (Hint: right-click your MWD and set "auto-repeat" to "off". That way, you don't have to worry about missing the shutdown point.) Just remember not to carry so much valuable cargo that the gankers consider you to be worth the expense. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 545	Posted - 2013.05.21 09:23:00 - [4] - Quote lol this must be a troll thread 3/10
Caerfinon Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 66	Posted - 2013.05.21 10:16:00 - [5] - Quote I have no problems in an orca fit with a 10MN MWD. align cloak mwd 1 cycle drop cloak warp ..... profit Cheers C. @caerfinon-á
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 71	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:03:00 - [6] - Quote Frillo Teslar wrote: The mwd-cloak trick doesn't work on an orca as there are no cap sized MWDs. It does work. Without cap-sized MWD. The trick is, it requires not fitting for max cargo.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 216	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:10:00 - [7] - Quote Caerfinon wrote: I have no problems in an orca fit with a 10MN MWD. align cloak mwd 1 cycle drop cloak warp ..... profit top speed on orca is 75m/s at max skills mwd with cloak up is 26m/s so how do you get up to 60m/s while cloaked?
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 206	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:22:00 - [8] - Quote Not sure if I'm EFTing it wrong, but Orca with Prototype 100mn MWD and Improved Cloaking Device has a top speed of 77.3m/s, you need to get to 56.25m/s within 1 cycle of the MWD to properly pull off the trick correct? If that's the case, it seems possible with speed, align time and mwd cycle increase modules/rigs and implants, but it will still probably be really close and will require a massive amount of investment.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 216	Posted - 2013.05.21 12:30:00 - [9] - Quote You cant align fast enough with a 100mn mwd 44.9sec align time lol in fact wont even work with a 10mn
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 464	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:04:00 - [10] - Quote On a side note, Orca barely works with align+mwd "trick" (just to reduce align time to ~10 s), without "cloak" part. With it, well... Maybe I should try all-out nano Orca fit or something though.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 206	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:18:00 - [11] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: You cant align fast enough with a 100mn mwd 44.9sec align time lol in fact wont even work with a 10mn Fully implanted and with rigs, you can bring that align time down to 25.7seconds with the MWD + Cloak on and with a top speed of 100m/s, I don't know how to calculate what speed you'll be at after a 10 second cycle (I'm assuming just straight up division and multiplication isn't right as initially your speed increases faster) but it seems really close. Massive investment though. Edit// Actually I derped, completely forgot I used MWD cycle-time increase rigs meaning you can align for 15.6 seconds before having to deactivate your cloak, in other words it should actually be possible.
Tashima Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety 5	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:44:00 - [12] - Quote It's not a 100% solution. Done correctly you get 11s from decloak to in warp. (cycle-time of the MWD + 1s for aligning and uncloak). If you wait with cloaking just a few seconds after align/MWD, you can time it so that you come out of cloak at the same time as the MWD turns off. You will not be cloaked during the whole aligntime, but almost.
feihcsiM Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 241	Posted - 2013.05.21 13:58:00 - [13] - Quote Suprised no one has mentioned to overload the MWD yet It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Goldiiee Tax and War Haven 388	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:05:00 - [14] - Quote Wow I have rarely seen so many bad posts on a simple subject, must be a whole bunch of EFT warriors that have never flown an Orca. First of all a 100mn MWD is easily fitted with one 5% eg-605 implant. Move the MWD up to the F1 position on your Hud, right click and turn off GÇÿauto-repeatGÇÖ. When you spawn in a new system simply click GÇÿJumpGÇÖ on the next gate in your route and hit the F1 key. 10s later you will be in warp, additionally when you undock from a station double click in space behind your Orca (As if to turn around) and hit F1, this will reduce your undock speed to 0 in one MWD cycle. Then without pause when your first cycle completes click GÇÿJumpGÇÖ on the first gate in your route and press F1 again (10s to warp). I have been told of the MWD Cloak trick, but have yet to see anyone in two years actually demonstrate it to me GÇÖ WorkingGÇÖ on an Orca. I just tried every variation of the order of Module activation I could think of and it seems to take me longer than hitting GÇÿJump, F1GÇÖ. [Orca, Hauler] Improved Cloaking Device II Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Survey Scanner II Ship Scanner II Cargo Scanner II Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II 2x Large Cargohold Optimization II Large Cargohold Optimization I Effective HP: 213,758 (Eve: 204,711) You my friend,-ádefy the whole theory of Natural Selection.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 217	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:29:00 - [15] - Quote feihcsiM wrote: Suprised no one has mentioned to overload the MWD yet Will that change anything? absolutely not. Your align time still far outstrips the mwd cycle time which means you will lose too much speed before you can actually warp. TL:DR for anyone joining the thread now: it's not possible to do the MWD+cloak on an orca.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 72	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:55:00 - [16] - Quote Goldiiee wrote: Wow I have rarely seen so many bad posts on a simple subject, must be a whole bunch of EFT warriors that have never flown an Orca. So true, unfortunately. Fact 1: From 0 speed (i.e. gate cloak) Orca enters warp after single cycle of 100MN MWD. Always. Fact 2: When using Improved Cloaking Device II or better, Orca gets almost to the warp initiation speed at the end of the cycle of said 100MN MWD. @Goldiiee: last time I checked the purpose of cloak+MWD is not speeding entering the warp per se, but avoiding lock and subsequent scram in the process. I believe I managed this feast in my Orca but it was only tested against a t1 frigate with scripted sebos. If you want to (dis)proove it yourself, contact me in game and we can arrange a meeting against a ship of your choice.
Caerfinon Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 66	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:00:00 - [17] - Quote Caerfinon wrote: I have no problems in an orca fit with a 10MN MWD. meant 100MN MWD - D'oh! Cheers @caerfinon Patron of the Interstellar Geographic Society-á
Certainlynot Analt University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.22 06:03:00 - [18] - Quote Thanks for the theorycrafting, everyone. Yes, I've read it all. Marc Callan wrote: You can rig an Orca to combine MWD and a brick tank ... which, while not being invisible, will act as a good deterrent to gankers (200,000 EHP ...) Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. My current fit is: (I know, hardly ideal, which is why I'm here) [Orca, Max EHP] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Marc Callan wrote: Just remember not to carry so much valuable cargo that the gankers consider you to be worth the expense. Can anyone explain the exact cutoff? I'm sure suicide gankers have calculated the exact cost to break through a freighter's ~200k EHP before Concord says hi. The Orca can actually hit 240k or so, which is kind of cute. hmskrecik wrote: Frillo Teslar wrote: The mwd-cloak trick doesn't work on an orca as there are no cap sized MWDs. It does work. Without cap-sized MWD. The trick is, it requires not fitting for max cargo. There were a couple "it totally works brah" replies like this. If there's someone out there that can instawarp out of cloak, could you actually post your fit? Dato Koppla wrote: Edit// Actually I derped, completely forgot I used MWD cycle-time increase rigs meaning you can align for 15.6 seconds before having to deactivate your cloak, in other words it should actually be possible. Edit2 Derped again, forgot that now the new target speed to reach align time is 72m/s so speed increase rigs actually didn't help at all. So yeah, don't think it's possible. Could you elaborate on your second edit? If you're using rigs that extend AB/MWD cycle duration, that seems huge. (This was actually the most exciting reply for me, as I wasn't aware of those rigs.) I don't understand how fitting those rigs changes the target speed to enter warp. The fit that best uses those Engine Thermal Shielding rigs that I could come up with was: [Orca, Sneaky Zoom] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 100MN Digital Booster Rockets Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Engine Thermal Shielding II Large Engine Thermal Shielding II Large Engine Thermal Shielding II ... but (at least for me) that's a 32.6 sec align time and a 20sec MWD cycle duration (and it sacrifices a lot of EHP to get there). That's still twenty seconds for a ganker to meander on over and pop you out of cloak, too. Right now the conclusion I'm reaching is that it's impossible to instawarp out of cloak, so I should give up on hauling loads that are profitable to suicide gank and just focus on EHP. Here's what I'm settling on: [Orca, Max EHP] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Cargohold Optimization II Large Cargohold Optimization II ... with about 243k EHP with skills at all 5's. (Replacing the Cargohold II's with Shield Extender I's puts it at about 260k. Sadly, I don't think there are hull rigs.) Notice that I had to throw an Ancillary Current Router on there. At least one person fit a 100MN MWD with no powergrid-increasing modules or rigs. There's a storyline 100MN MWD that only needs 1125 powergrid (the Digital Rocket Boosters) but that's silly expensive, north of 600M. I'm assuming the difference is a +powergrid implant, right? Finally, since it seems like I won't be instawarping out of cloak, when exactly do you lose the ability to cloak: when another player BEGINS locking you, or when they FINISH locking you? Thanks again.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 72	Posted - 2013.05.22 08:09:00 - [19] - Quote Certainlynot Analt wrote: hmskrecik wrote: Frillo Teslar wrote: The mwd-cloak trick doesn't work on an orca as there are no cap sized MWDs. It does work. Without cap-sized MWD. The trick is, it requires not fitting for max cargo. There were a couple "it totally works brah" replies like this. If there's someone out there that can instawarp out of cloak, could you actually post your fit? Here you go: Free Willy. A T1 frigate fitted with 1 or 2 (I don't remember exactly) scripted sebos couldn't get lock on it. Inertia stabs instead of nanofibers proposed in this thread because former don't gimp hull hp and the agility is what actually matters, not speed bonus.
Certainlynot Analt University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.22 08:35:00 - [20] - Quote Interesting. That's... close enough to be very interesting. In EFT it comes to a 19.2 sec align time with all 5s and a full Low-Grade Nomad set. 26.2s without the implants. Completely right about the Inertia Stabilizers, by the way. Have you flown a similar fit yourself, by any chance? I'm really curious how a fit that says 19.2s (instead of ~10s) in EFT can be close to instawarping post-cloak, but I agree that my current Orca fit feels closer to warping post-cloak than it should be according to EFT. Edit: the EFT fit for anyone curious: [Orca, Instawarp MWD+Cloak] Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I EM Ward Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Cloaking Device [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints II Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints II Large Ancillary Current Router I
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 159	Posted - 2013.05.22 08:50:00 - [21] - Quote Keep in mind that EFT isn't smart enough to automatically calculate the effect of pulsing the MWD - it assumes that a module is either steady-on or steady-off. @Analt: if you're going for pure tank, instead of the double ACR's (large ACR's are hideously expensive these days), you might consider a Large Core Defense Field Extender and a third hardener in place of the shield extender (optimum choice would probably be either a Thermal or an EM hardener, depending on whether you're more worried about a Brutix gank or an alpha Tornado). And my rule of thumb has always been that the biggest gank threat to something like an Orca or a freighter comes from a suicide Tornado, which will cost about 100 million ISK and do 10,000 EHP alpha. That comes to roughly 10,000 ISK per EHP, which is probably on the high side, because gankers will often factor in the possibility of salvaging and recovering the suicide ships. Red Frog doesn't trust their freighters with more than a billion ISK of cargo, so that's probably a good guideline. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 72	Posted - 2013.05.22 08:59:00 - [22] - Quote Certainlynot Analt wrote: Interesting. That's... close enough to be very interesting. In EFT it comes to a 19.2 sec align time with all 5s and a full Low-Grade Nomad set. 26.2s without the implants. Completely right about the Inertia Stabilizers, by the way. Have you flown a similar fit yourself, by any chance? I'm really curious how a fit that says 19.2s (instead of ~10s) in EFT can be close to instawarping post-cloak, but I agree that my current Orca fit feels closer to warping post-cloak than it should be according to EFT. Mate, I thought mentioned it clearly enough that this fit was tested in game. I won't comment on EFT numbers because I'm not totally sure how to read them. What mattered to me was if I was able to escape simulated gate camp.
Certainlynot Analt University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:40:00 - [23] - Quote Marc Callan wrote: @Analt: if you're going for pure tank ... you might consider ... a third hardener in place of the shield extender (optimum choice would probably be either a Thermal or an EM hardener, depending on whether you're more worried about a Brutix gank or an alpha Tornado). Could you explain this? If I'm facing arty tornados they can pick whatever damage type they like by choosing ammo types, right? A quick search suggests gankers would be using EMP L (EM) or Quake L (explosive).
Silas Shaw Coffee Hub 36	Posted - 2013.05.22 23:21:00 - [24] - Quote one thing only will i toss into this thread: skill your scout for leadership skills and get that 10% agility boost from skirmish warfare. ;p
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 163	Posted - 2013.05.23 07:06:00 - [25] - Quote Certainlynot Analt wrote: Marc Callan wrote: @Analt: if you're going for pure tank ... you might consider ... a third hardener in place of the shield extender (optimum choice would probably be either a Thermal or an EM hardener, depending on whether you're more worried about a Brutix gank or an alpha Tornado). Could you explain this? If I'm facing arty tornados they can pick whatever damage type they like by choosing ammo types, right? A quick search suggests gankers would be using EMP L (EM) or Quake L (explosive). Tornados can choose ammo types, but an Orca's shields will naturally have explosive damage as their peak resist, so figure the gankers will gamble on people leaving the EM shield hole open. If you're using the MWD to warp after a jump, you'll be away before they can reload their guns. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Certainlynot Analt University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:47:00 - [26] - Quote Marc Callan wrote: Tornados can choose ammo types, but an Orca's shields will naturally have explosive damage as their peak resist, so figure the gankers will gamble on people leaving the EM shield hole open. Makes sense. With Invuln II / Invuln II / EM Ward II the Orca has roughly the same EHP (270k or thereabouts) against all damage types, so I'll stick with that. Thanks for the advice.
Dark Cloud Dancing Goldcrest Enterprises 29	Posted - 2013.05.24 20:11:00 - [27] - Quote hmskrecik wrote: Certainlynot Analt wrote: hmskrecik wrote: Frillo Teslar wrote: The mwd-cloak trick doesn't work on an orca as there are no cap sized MWDs. It does work. Without cap-sized MWD. The trick is, it requires not fitting for max cargo. There were a couple "it totally works brah" replies like this. If there's someone out there that can instawarp out of cloak, could you actually post your fit? Here you go: Free Willy. A T1 frigate fitted with 1 or 2 (I don't remember exactly) scripted sebos couldn't get lock on it. Inertia stabs instead of nanofibers proposed in this thread because former don't gimp hull hp and the agility is what actually matters, not speed bonus. I use 2x Engine Thermal Shielding I rigs instead of the Low Friction Nozzle Joints II (ETS gives 20% extra MWD pulse duration, hence more time to get up to speed before you have to turn off the cloak), but otherwise very similar to Free Willy. I have a 5% agility implant (Eifyr Rogue) and all relevant agility skills maxed out. I confirm the MWD-cloak-instawarp trick works with this fit too; even with extended trips through w-space, me and my Orca have NEVER been locked. I agree you have to specifically travel fit to do it - if you fit for tank or cargo it won't work, agility is the key. Good luck with your experimenting! DCD
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1326	Posted - 2013.05.24 20:45:00 - [28] - Quote Certainlynot Analt wrote: I'm having a devil of a time getting the MWD+cloak trick to work on my Orca. As I understand it: Align to target Hit cloak Also immediately hit MWD Cancel MWD so it only goes for one run As the MWD is finishing its run, drop cloak Instantly hit warp I like to think I'm not braindead but I can't get this to work. When the MWD cycle finishes I'm only at about 20 m/s, which is about 25% speed for the Orca, not 75%. I can compensate by dropping cloak about halfway through the MWD cycle, so I spend some time accelerating really quickly courtesy of the MWD, but that means I spend about five seconds accelerating to warp while uncloaked, pointable, and super-easy to lock because of the MWD. What am I doing wrong? (This is for hisec hauling.) Bad troll is bad. 0/10 "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2013.05.24 20:45:00 - [29] - Quote Ok so with some sacrifices this is possible, good to know!
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 73	Posted - 2013.05.24 21:07:00 - [30] - Quote Dark Cloud Dancing wrote: I use 2x Engine Thermal Shielding I rigs instead of the Low Friction Nozzle Joints II (ETS gives 20% extra MWD pulse duration, hence more time to get up to speed before you have to turn off the cloak), but otherwise very similar to Free Willy. I have a 5% agility implant (Eifyr Rogue) and all relevant agility skills maxed out. I confirm the MWD-cloak-instawarp trick works with this fit too; even with extended trips through w-space, me and my Orca have NEVER been locked. I agree you have to specifically travel fit to do it - if you fit for tank or cargo it won't work, agility is the key. Good luck with your experimenting! DCD Interesting concept indeed. Though I'm a bit reluctant to it as increasing MWD cycle increases also exposure while not cloaking (like when warping through calm parts of hisec) and obviously increases time to enter the warp. I'd have to try it myself to see how annoying it is. On the bright side, this solution could give a job to this otherwise almost worthless Zor's implant.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.