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Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:01:00 - [1] Short and sweet, im a close range pilot. As it will take me about the same amount of time to get any of the races assault frigates, i want to know which one is the best for close range combat. Please dont try and warn me about drones and NOS i know the risks, but i dont do things by half, AF's are my aim and i intend on getting the skills neccessary to level 5. If anyone has a good argument for long range AF's then please make it here, i want to make an informed choice before committing the hours needed to train for them. Also if someone would like to post a list of useful "secondary" (i.e not on the direct path of achieving an AF) then that would be much appreciated. Free Websites
Mortuus	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:04:00 - [2] Wolf at range or up close is a mean ship. Same goes for the Enyo. Jaguar and Ishkur can do it as well. Retribution is amazing for damage up close with 3 HS 2's and med pulses. The only ones I'm not sure of up close are the caldari ones. The real trick is getting into range with a short range AF. Which is why long range ones seems to be more popular. Honestly, AF's are highly adaptable and can do almost anything you want them to.
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:09:00 - [3] Hmm, I hear the Ishkur is quite a popular ride atm, and quiet feared, wouldnt the extra slot on the enyo make it better? Or is it the Ishkurs drone bay that makes it so hot? And i dont know why i just prefer close range, i plan on going long range with the HAC but i want to put the assault to good use while i toast to the enemy pilots good health through the wind-screen Free Websites
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:29:00 - [4] Well close range leads to the most damage over time. It also serves a good advantage when someone has longer range fitted (Tracking is slower). It's just the fact of getting into range or being sniped that scares people to go that route. That's why so many people fly interceptors now. They have the speed and with the armor plates the way they are they have the tank. So they can get right up on you and rip you a part with blasters/autocannons. So going that route with an assault can be very deadly. I dono really what is the best. A lot of pilots do favor the Ishkur because of the obvious "Drones". Drones really are to much of an advantage over frigates. They have long ranges, deal good damage, require very little skill to utilize, and of course had great speeds/tracking. So you get the option of fitting long range and or short range and let something else (Drones) fight for you to make it all up (Having close range and long range tactics in one boat basicly). I personaly fly a Wolf with autocannons. I like it a lot. I can smack down plated inty setups. That's why I actually fly my Wolf. For the most part, most Harpy's can't out tank me if I'm in my range because most don't fit blasters. So It does good vs normal non-drone assaults with long range as well. But I just gate to gate pvp. So anyone on a gate camping. That's who I engage. Even sometimes let people come to me. When I assume they got close range setups (Using range against them). All and all. All the assault are fun to play. They all can be deadly and pretty outspoken. Shouldn't really fly a ship because it's the best. Should fly one that fits you the best. Don't just go Ishkur because you have no real skill and have to rely on drones. Go something that fits you... -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
May Ectoria	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:30:00 - [5] If you're going Gallente then the Enyo is a good bet - you can use blasters which would be very close range, however - remember you have one mid slot so you have a choice to either web or scramble. If you don't web, ceptors can pin you down and kill you with ease and if you don't scramble, your target will warp. That is a moot point if you're not going solo however. Ishkur has 3 mid slots making it more viable for a blaster boat and a nice dronebay to boot. you could use 3 ion II and 1 small NOS. Have a play around with setups and see what you enjoy. :))) Keep us posted!
May Ectoria	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:33:00 - [6] Edited by: May Ectoria on 20/10/2005 08:32:45 Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Don't just go Ishkur because you have no real skill and have to rely on drones. Go something that fits you... Most people's Ishkur setups are close range and saying that you have no 'real skill' to fly one is ridiculous to be honest.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 08:38:18 Originally by: May Ectoria Edited by: May Ectoria on 20/10/2005 08:32:45 Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Don't just go Ishkur because you have no real skill and have to rely on drones. Go something that fits you... Most people's Ishkur setups are close range and saying that you have no 'real skill' to fly one is ridiculous to be honest. Drones do majority of the damage if you're not already in range of your blasters. Drones are a great advantage over any frigate. That's why people fly the ship. They don't fly it because it fits blasters. They fly it for the drone bay and everything else is just a bonus. If it was just about the blasters. Everyone wouldn't be asking for the Megathron to be boosted some more. The slots and everything else on the Mega are fine. It's the point of able to get in range with blasters. Frigates can do it much better I know, but webbing is more of a factor in frigate warfare than it is with battleships. I never leave dock without my webber on my frig. Besides that. Drones are long range. I wish I could have both autocannons and long range on my wolf. Like having 8 high slots. 4 with autocannons, 4 with STD launchers (When missiles get upped more snicker). -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Lord Aradon on 20/10/2005 08:39:26 Aye, well heres the thing, i totally screwed up when creating me Im a caldari with stacks of charisma cough I prefer Blasters over Missles and close range to long so go figure Think imma go the route of the ishkur, should be in one by christmas hehe And another thing, i dont use drones, dont believe in them tbh, thats why i fly a vigilant and not a Thorax Free Websites
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Lord Aradon And another thing, i dont use drones, dont believe in them tbh Dont get in an Ishkur then Originally by: Oveur I do not recall having intellectual intercourse with Paint. DPS Sheet
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:46:00 - [10] Edited by: Lord Aradon on 20/10/2005 08:46:19 Christ if the only reason someone flys a ship is because it can fit a few drones, then i pity the day the come across a few smarties. As a rule i dont use them, but as they could come in handy and seem to fit the role of what i want to do ill train the drone skills i need and take em for a spin. Free Websites
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.10.20 08:59:00 - [11] You're dropping everything that makes the Ishkur special if you go without drones. It is a decent gunship, and an excellent ship when using drones. It has fewer high slots because a large part of it's arsenal lies in the drone bay. Not using the drone bay is like tapping up water in the kitchen for no reason while you're taking a shower. Wasted potential, inefficient usage of water. Since it doesn't need to power 4 turrets, it can divert power to an MWD instead. MWDs are generally considered unfavorable on Assault Frigs, but the Ishkur can fit one and tank at the same time, since drones don't have fitting requirements and cap usage. This makes the Ishkur a strong anti-ceptor, and gives it an advantage to other Assault Frigates.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.10.20 09:18:00 - [12] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 09:20:01 Originally by: Lord Aradon Edited by: Lord Aradon on 20/10/2005 08:46:19 Christ if the only reason someone flys a ship is because it can fit a few drones, then i pity the day the come across a few smarties. As a rule i dont use them, but as they could come in handy and seem to fit the role of what i want to do ill train the drone skills i need and take em for a spin. Smartbombs are nice for that role. Yet there is only one assault frig that can fit drones. It's like taking one medium slot I have to fit a Minmatar named ECM. Sure I will be able to jam any Claw/Stiletto/Wolf 99% with it but what happens if he is Amarr? Using my nifty new QuickFit Utility. This is what I got for 5 Hobgoblin II's fitted in the drone bay of a Ishkur. Note its only 5. 0 EM 60 Explosive 40 Kinetic 30 Thermal Damage Mod per Drone - 2.488 DPS with Drones - 3.484 Total DPS with Drones - 17.418 Light Neutron Blaster II's Damage Mod - 7.219 DPS per Blaster - 21.007 DPS with all - 80.439 DPS of Drones/Blasters - 100.937 200mm Autocannon II's Damage Mod - 3.898 DPS per Autocannon - 16.088 DPS with all - 64.35 DPS with 2 Damage Mods - 91.05 So yeah the Wolf can get pretty close to the DPS + 5 drones of an Iskur. This is just with guns with no damage mods keep in mind. That's only 5 tech II drones. I believe they can hold more than 5 right? -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.20 09:50:00 - [13] DPS factors in tracking doesnt it? - Just a simple warrior.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.10.20 09:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 09:57:07 Originally by: Khaldorn Murino DPS factors in tracking doesnt it? tracking plays a part in damage. But impossiable to really put in the DPS. Got a point there being autocannons would track and do overall better hits in the long run. But the Ishkur with 5 drones is not the full drone bay. -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
May Ectoria	Posted - 2005.10.20 10:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 08:40:51 Originally by: May Ectoria Edited by: May Ectoria on 20/10/2005 08:32:45 Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Don't just go Ishkur because you have no real skill and have to rely on drones. Go something that fits you... Most people's Ishkur setups are close range and saying that you have no 'real skill' to fly one is ridiculous to be honest. Drones do majority of the damage if you're not already in range of your blasters. Drones are a great advantage over any frigate. That's why people fly the ship. They don't fly it because it fits blasters. They fly it for the drone bay and everything else is just a bonus. If it was just about the blasters. Everyone wouldn't be asking for the Megathron to be boosted some more. The slots and everything else on the Mega are fine. It's the point of able to get in range with blasters. Frigates can do it much better I know, but webbing is more of a factor in frigate warfare than it is with battleships. I never leave dock without my webber on my frig. Besides that. Drones are long range. I wish I could have both autocannons and long range on my wolf. Like having 8 high slots. 4 with autocannons, 4 with STD launchers (When missiles get upped more snicker). There is just no way I could defeat a Ishkur with my wolf. It can tank nice and dish out good damage with blasters. It's having the extra tech II drones all around me. It's not to hard to grasp. What the hell? Drones have long range, o.k, but what's that worth when you get to such a range that you can no longer pin down your target, i.e within web range? Otherwise providing your target has a brain he/she will move out of range and warp. You have also neglected to mention the fact that if you have to warp before scooping your drones, you are useless. What about smart bombs? To say that flying the ship is 'easy' because if it's drone bay, highlights how much of an ill informed individual you really are.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.20 10:08:00 - [16] See that worries me alot. People spread DPS values all over the place, but tracking (at least in my minnie experience) effects damage a hell of a lot. For example, i was running numbers thru the tracking calculator thingy (which is pretty cool btw) and then looked at the dps values, which werent that great, then looked at the hit % which was 50. So that cuts the dps in half. So surely, when people quote DPS (not picking on famine at all here, just general) they should surely quote the relative tracking next to it? - Just a simple warrior.
May Ectoria	Posted - 2005.10.20 10:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 09:20:01 Originally by: Lord Aradon Edited by: Lord Aradon on 20/10/2005 08:46:19 Christ if the only reason someone flys a ship is because it can fit a few drones, then i pity the day the come across a few smarties. As a rule i dont use them, but as they could come in handy and seem to fit the role of what i want to do ill train the drone skills i need and take em for a spin. Smartbombs are nice for that role. Yet there is only one assault frig that can fit drones. It's like taking one medium slot I have to fit a Minmatar named ECM. Sure I will be able to jam any Claw/Stiletto/Wolf 99% with it but what happens if he is Amarr? Using my nifty new QuickFit Utility. This is what I got for 5 Hobgoblin II's fitted in the drone bay of a Ishkur. Note its only 5. 0 EM 60 Explosive 40 Kinetic 30 Thermal Damage Mod per Drone - 2.488 DPS with Drones - 3.484 Total DPS with Drones - 17.418 Light Neutron Blaster II's Damage Mod - 7.219 DPS per Blaster - 21.007 DPS with all - 80.439 DPS of Drones/Blasters - 100.937 200mm Autocannon II's Damage Mod - 3.898 DPS per Autocannon - 16.088 DPS with all - 64.35 DPS with 2 Damage Mods - 91.05 So yeah the Wolf can get pretty close to the DPS + 5 drones of an Iskur. This is just with guns with no damage mods keep in mind. That's only 5 tech II drones. I believe they can hold more than 5 right? WTB Ishkur with 4 turret slots.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.10.20 10:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 20/10/2005 10:49:39 You're right May. But really break it down frig vs frig. -What if the target is out of gunnery range- You can use drones. It serves both close and long ranges with great tracking. Where rails/artys wont be able to hit if the frig is orbiting at say 15km with speed. That would also leave the opponent with less damage being he/she is using longer ranged guns moving those speeds and or not dealing damage at all just tackling. You have a great advantage there to hit orbiting frigs out of web range and to fast to track with long range guns. Unless you happen to be a missile boat assault. Which there are none. Not to mention damage while being target jammed. -If they flee at 15/20km I have to scoop drones- That's 1 sacrifice you have to make. Not that big of a sacrifice being you can dish out mad damage, have close range with mad long range support. Where others just chase as soon as they warp. -Smartbombs- Like I said, who is going to fit small smartbombs on a frig Fact is, if you get all your eggs in one basket. The DPS of the drones + guns on your Ishkur will blow any non-Ishkur assault out the water. Damage > Tank... Why deny it... Like denying you don't fly it because of the elite drone bay + gunnery. CCP is even thinking about adding NoS drones, Cap boosting Drones, even EW Drones I hear. Eve is going to turn into one big drone fest. People with drone ships are going to totaly ***a lot of ships. Drones require little skill. It's the old missile system. It requires no tactical skill to utilize. There drones, it's automatic. They serve both long and close ranges. Everything is there for you. With new additions to the drones. Thoraxs are going to ***almost everything tech1 or tech2 frig. Domi's are going to be super great where the typhoon is still hanging on a thread. All because of a automatic ship that kills who is agressive to you or even commanded too. -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Kerosene	Posted - 2005.10.20 15:08:00 - [19] There's just one reason I prefer the enyo over the ishkur... I was in a battle in ASCN space vs a Vexor. He nos'd, droned and got me to structure so I warped out. That was it. No more drones. My dps was cut so much that I had to return to empire to get more drones. All you have to do is warp away from one battle and you're buggered. And enyo you can warp in and out to your hearts content and still be at 100% efficiency. So that's why I fly and enyo over an ishkur. __
zBakaz	Posted - 2005.10.20 20:16:00 - [20] i prefer my enyo to ish because the enyo can get its cap recharge and shield recharge down lower.. i run 2 power diag I's in my lows, with an armor rep and WCS. The ishkur can only run 1 power diag. It does have a little more shields and speed, and the drones, but with only 3 turrets, it tends to make fights longer than the enyo. Which means more ammo, and a harder strain on the cap/shield/armor. i mostly fight under 10km. using 125mm proto's with antimatter gives me about a 7.1km opt.. so i can switch it up for long range as needed.. the ishkur is best vs inty class ships, since i mount a webber in it.. it does alot better than the enyo vs those, but against anything else, the webber isnt as significant of a bonus..
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.10.21 00:17:00 - [21] enyo if you go against laser users than ac wolf retribution is rather long range than short range (low speed), jaguar is fast but have lower than wolf damage, harpy and hawk are snipers, ishkur is drone carrier that could be used in close and in range... and vengence... i have no idea what vengence is
Jim Sharpe	Posted - 2005.10.21 01:40:00 - [22] I agree that picking your Assault Frigate based on damage output per second makes is a good method. I personally chose the Harpy because it's range bonuses to hybrid turrets suit the kind of longer range destruction I am confortable with. I thank the developers at Eve, that they have assault ships suitable for the close in knife fighter and the longer ranged snipers like me...
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.10.21 14:27:00 - [23] Thanks for all your comments and opinions guys, much appreciated. Ive decided to go for the enyo, the extra turret and missile is too tempting tbh, and hell if i dont like it i can always give the ishkur a spin anyways. Cheers. Free Websites
TeamBETAalpha	Posted - 2005.10.21 20:30:00 - [24] Quick note, close range on af rock vs other when you have your ranges down. Just a hint on doing that to cruisers, may be funny to take out a cruiser out close range that cant hit you, but its not funny when you think you got it and he whips out the mwd, scram and webber, then **s your up with a million drones or small close range guns....been there done that, those occasions you just go fk Ever seen my sister, looks like me...would ya like a kiss?
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2005.10.21 21:35:00 - [25] Specializing in close range assault frigs is silly, imho. You are too slow to catch smaller ships (the jaguar being the exception), and you'll get pwned by cruisers that cost less. You'll be looking good against other assault frigs, provided you dont start too far away from them. I dont see the interest in that.

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