EVE Search - The Next Patch And Combat Changes

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The Next Patch And Combat Changes

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 02:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Stavros on 04/08/2003 02:53:24 I am hearing a large amount of speculation and comment about the upcoming changes in this next patch. So WHAT is the big deal about this next patch? Well basically for those who dont know there will now be a delay on jumping and docking at stations for the initiator of any agressive actions. Some people have said that this will result in far more pirates getting caught and/or killed. I think however that this is a rather large error on their part. As an example let us assume that there are 4 pirates camping a gate and in warp 20 battleships intent on killing them. Will the 4 pirates stay and open fire? I doubt it they will just jump and laugh about it on the other side. This will be made even better if the attacking 20 ships actually take agressive action against the 4 pirates before they jump, as the much larger force won't now be able to pursue. So this is a win for pirates. Now assume that those same pirates are back at a gate, except this time they have just killed a ship when the 20 ship anti-pirate fleet warps in. Unable to jump what will they do, will they be caught and killed? This is highly unlikely as the attacking fleet has a 10 second delay before they can even start to lock the pirates. This gives the pirates ample time to warp AWAY from the gate to safety. Oh dear the anti-pirates just spent all that time for nothing. Another win for pirates. Both the above scenarios also apply to station combat although this is less common with pirates. Now let us look at two equally sized fleets, a and b. Fleet a is outside a station, when suddenly in warps fleet b 30km away from the station, intent on the destruction of the fleet a. But who fires first? If fleet a fires they loose their advantage and can't dock, if fleet b fires they loose nothing as they are too far out to dock anyway. However they will probably want to move in closer to the station in order that they can dock if the fight goes badly. Net result? A Boring stalemate with both sides afraid to fire and loose their docking priveleges. Is this really what is good for eve? Less pvp and more boring stalement, slaggin fests where two parties duel each other using only the weapons of 'foul language' and insulting each others mothers? The basic point of what I am saying is, this patch will do nothing to help anti-pirates infact with the removal of microwarping straight out of warp it is likely to hurt honest people more as they can no longer speed past camped gates. What it IS going to do is make pvp even more boring and tedious. In difference to my normal ending statements, if you have a logical arguement against any of the things I have said, pls feel free to disagree. Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Derek	Posted - 2003.08.04 02:57:00 - [2] I think if anyone fires a shot then all stations and gates should be shut down to all ships in the system for a peroid of time. This would make it much more interesting. The only Problem with this is that Traders could NEVER run a blockade if he was shot at. I imagine this is what the devs were trying to avoid. _______________________________________________2005.05.02 03:56:57combatYour Mega Pulse Laser II perfectly strikes Sansha's Battletower, wrecking for 1190.5 damage._
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 02:58:00 - [3] Which is exactly why the time penalty on gate usage for killing someone should be at least 10 minutes. Besides, why would you warp in with 20 battleships all at once? If you were smart you'd warp in an indy or something, then the fleet once the pirates have opened fire.
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:01:00 - [4] Ok xelios at least read my post pls. I said that about the indy being warped in first. EVEN if the pirates are unable to jump dock for an hour. They will ALWAYS get AT LEAST 10 seconds of free warp time when the enemy fleet warps to the gate/station they are camping. So its just a simple matter of moving to a moon and waiting for the timer to run out, then just leave the system. Easy... Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Tyrion Nydaerin	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:11:00 - [5] Edited by: Tyrion Nydaerin on 04/08/2003 03:12:08 As much as it pains me to admit it, Stavr0s makes a lot of sense here. My only point would be that if one is actually going to engage a pirate fleet with a mind to destroying it, warping to where they are camping does not work, howevever if you are simply trying to break up a blockade then warping your fleet there might have the intended effect. In this case, making it so that the pirate's cant jump or dock doesnt make much difference, the can always just go to some moon and either wait it our or log in space and come back later. The only real way to use the new system to your advantage would be to have a fleet at every single location in the system, and even then if they have a bookmark in the middle of space you've lost them. --- -=Fountain Alliance High Council Member=-
Femme Fatal	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:14:00 - [6] Basically.. true. It will end up with two sides looking at each other trying to get the other side to start firing. In the first few weeks this will result in ppl warping in, targetting each other and activating all their ECM (until the Devs emergency fix this to make ECM a hostile act) or any other non offensive module, till one side has the clear advantage, at which the other side if smart will run/dock either before the fight starts or after returning a few shots.
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:19:00 - [7] Edited by: j0sephine on 04/08/2003 03:20:08 "(until the Devs emergency fix this to make ECM a hostile act)" They already did. :s ... as far as i can tell the content of this thread has been beaten to death already in the Patch Review section, with no visible result...
Muaddid	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Muaddid on 04/08/2003 03:19:47 ok who's impersonating stavros ? hes making sense, cant be him... theres no "<Stavr0s> omg omg omg" in his post either... something's wrong here... did hell freeze over ? ahhhhh no it makes sense... the person who posted is "Stavros" and not "Stavr0s" On vacations (need a new sig too)
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:19:00 - [9] Sorry Stav, was in a hurry to read that. You're right about the warping out advantage, but really the victims of gate camps have that same advantage. Not allowing gate pirates to jump will level the playing field. I don't think the intent of this was to doom gate campers to certain death the minute a fleet shows up, but to give attackers a level playing field, one in which warp scrambling a target will prevent him from escaping. period. Unless he's carrying a stabilizer ;)
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:33:00 - [10] Edited by: Stavros on 04/08/2003 03:34:02 I would really like for this to get some attention though. The fundemental problem with combat in eve is it is too hard to get into and too easy to get out of. This will not fix the problem and will imho just exascerbate it :-( In reply to your second post xelios the patch miserably fails to achieve that goal as well, as there is a 10 second period when the attackers can do nothing but sit there and watch the pirates simply warp away. PS: I only use Stavr0s with a zero on irc as some GIMP already had stavros with a o. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Endureth	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:41:00 - [11] Here's another scenario. Stavros is sitting at a gate. Stavros is a well know griefer. That or he role-plays a heartless, cold-blooded killer really well. In warps a frigate. Pretty crappy little frigate, must be a newb. Stavros locks on and fires on the little guy. Then suddenly a fleet warps in. Uh-oh, Stavros is in trouble. He better warp to a moon quickly so he doesn't get caught. Some smack talk goes back and forth until Stavros decides his time has expired and warps to the other gate to find a new spot for the night. He warps to the gate in the system. Uh-oh, the forces of good are camped there waiting for him. He once again tries the first gate. No way! Stavros is trapped. Looks like Stavros has a new skill to learn, gate-crashing. Well, since he doesn't have that skill trained it looks like Stavros is going to be the mouse in a cat and mouse chase throughout the system while he tries to evade the forces of good hunting parties. Sounds like fun :) -E
Muaddid	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:45:00 - [12] or he just warp to one of the middle-of-nowhere-bookmark he has, stop his ship and go to sleep to login a few hours later when everyone is gone out of boredom... On vacations (need a new sig too)
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:46:00 - [13] Edited by: Stavros on 04/08/2003 03:47:17 Cheers muadid for yet again convincing me that not everyone that plays this game is a moron. Heheh... Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:48:00 - [14] Edited by: la'Rei on 04/08/2003 03:51:20 Muaddid - it's the one and only Stavr0s. Same one. no diffrent. Stavros - let me show you how you get people to say it's bad. I like this! This is such a great idea! It makes gate camping so much easier, and it will make killing people at the gates so much eaiser too! I LOVE this patch!!! COME PEOPLE! Come to my GATE! you cant use MWD now!!! COME DIE!!! did I mention... DIE! becasue of this patch!!! BUAHAHHA. Serisouly tho. this patch does nothing agianst us pirates. it only helps us. jeez poping frigates in 1 volley aint as fun as you would think. -Rei _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 03:53:00 - [15] Edited by: Xelios on 04/08/2003 03:55:33 Yeah Stav, good point, but how do we stop people from warping out right away without making it impossible for someone warping into, say, a gatecamp to escape? If the 10 second inveunerability period was taken out it would be almost impossible to avoid a gate camp, and it will be impossible now that you can't activate a MWD in warp anymore. Tracking systems should go a long way in helping pvp combat, that way if your target warps out you can at least follow him. Basically any changes made to make pvp easier to get into will also make gate camping more foolproof, not that I have anything against gate camping but it should be hard to do considering the impact it has on normal travellers. -edit- You could still easily avoid a gate camp by simply not warping to the gate, but there should be an option to at least try and run the blockade, even if it's at a great risk. Without a 10 sec inveunerability time, and without the ability to activate MWD in warp, the chances of getting through a gate camp would slim to none.
Tyrion Nydaerin	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Tyrion Nydaerin on 04/08/2003 04:03:30 Quote: You could still easily avoid a gate camp by simply not warping to the gate So you're saying we should just... not... travel? --- -=Fountain Alliance High Council Member=-
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:04:00 - [17] Edited by: la'Rei on 04/08/2003 04:06:41 Xelios here is an example of the chances of a cruiser to run a gate with 4 b-ships built for gate camping. You have 3 Huge heavy tanks with huge .50 cal machine guns on each tank pointing at you at a gate into town. You also have a "super tar" truck laying down tar you cant walk over because it's too sticky. You are a marine! You get your little machine gun. and you want to get to that gate... alive and well. enough said. it wont happen, unless the 3 tanks and tar truck mess up. Basically 4 b-ships at a gate camping, should be uhh... Breakable... yes. Runnable... no. Think about it. it should also be the same for a pirate who warps into a web of bounty hunters like that. But pirates are smart, and cautious of that and normally dont fall for it :) -Rei _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
orrin	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:07:00 - [18] I think stavros is partly right. If a defending fleet decides to run immidiately, it always can. The following is the situation where this upcoming patch is going to cause ppl to die (which may be a good thing). 2 relatively even fleets engage in combat(therefore both sides decide to engage). If the defenders fire first and it turns out they are going to lose now comes the trouble. They can't jump out and since they decided to fight some of them may be in warp jamming range and be jammed. Now what? In the past all ships could escape, now it seems some members of the defending fleet will die. This is a good thing I think. May cause the pirates to lose an occasional ship more frequently. If that ship is a Battleship it could get expensive replacing constant losses. Orrin
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:14:00 - [19] la'Rei, you are forgetting about MWD. It doesn't matter how big your guns are if you can't track something and don't have time to lock onto it before it is able to get away. Try hitting a supersonic jet with a battleship cannon and you'll get the idea. Tyrion, not at all, but warping into a gate camp by yourself if you know you can't make it with a MWD is just dumb. Sometimes it's best to accept it and wait it out, or find a route around it, or pay a toll.
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:16:00 - [20] Quote: la'Rei, you are forgetting about MWD. It doesn't matter how big your guns are if you can't track something and don't have time to lock onto it before it is able to get away. Try hitting a supersonic jet with a battleship cannon and you'll get the idea. Tyrion, not at all, but warping into a gate camp by yourself if you know you can't make it with a MWD is just dumb. Sometimes it's best to accept it and wait it out, or find a route around it, or pay a toll. yes/no you are right, but your also wrong. Their changeing MWD You have to come to a "full and complete" stop before you can fire it up. it will take about 5-10 secodns to stop. by then the scorpion sitting at the spawn site, has you insta locked and you have 6 webs on you and dont forget 2 warp jammers. You are now going 81m/s with your MWD on at max speed. -Rei _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
Cymoril	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:21:00 - [21] The changes to gateing/docking certainly don't make the game any worse, and that it the most important part about the change. If you don't think they will make it any better, fine. But, it's not going to make it worse. Who knows what changes will come AFTER this one, but at least this one will already be in place when the next one DOES come.
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:28:00 - [22] Edited by: Xelios on 04/08/2003 04:29:04 Yeah, and that will be the root of the problem. Sure a battleship fleet at a gate can be chased off, but by making the MWD useless for running blockades there is very simply no way for a person to avoid a gate camp. The victim has 0 chance of making it through, forcing him to either pay or log until the campers leave. It shouldn't be like this at all. I don't think gate camps should be 100% effective, it makes travel impossible to entire regions (camps like HED-GP or PF-346 that block off a vital route). As for paying a toll, I don't bother, it's way too easy for a pirate to take a toll then blow you up anyway. -edit again- as a side note, I just had a run in with tekforce, his laser beam was almost as big as my Rupture, but before you get too worried... I'm ok.
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:30:00 - [23] Xelios - What were you doing so close to Tek's lasers? grins _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:32:00 - [24] Actually I jumped into PF-346 about the same time he did, and saw him grill some guy at the jump in point as I autopiloted to the stargate, so I waited for him there and when he showed up he stripped my sheilds to half in one volley from about 35km away, then I jumped =P
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 04:35:00 - [25] I'm gonna get a ship like that soon too :) Makes me a proud amarr, that our ships stomp all over them slave minitar junk piles, they call ships. -Rei _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 05:03:00 - [26] Yeah I'm getting myself an Apoc in 5 days once my skill is done, simply cause I'm sick of flying trash bins through the galaxy =P
la'Rei	Posted - 2003.08.04 05:32:00 - [27] a... slave... flying the most... prestigous... of all... ships... NEVER! YOU MUST DIE! -Rei _________________________ Trolling is bad. Please dont do it. -rei
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 05:38:00 - [28] The rebellion has begun!
Jojin	Posted - 2003.08.04 05:54:00 - [29] I vote the gates should be shut down and docking prohibited if you are the initiator or the recipient of aggressive actions. This makes more sense from a realism standpoint. The goal is to protect the stations and gates from damage and the best way to do this is to keep them neutral. I mean just because two (2) individuals arrived at a gate and one shoots first at another, it doesnÆt mean the one who shot first is the æbad guyÆ. Heck he could be a bounty hunter who is in a chase trying to catch the guy who just blew up 20 passenger transports. I do realize this will mean blockade running will become a thing of the past, because blockades will have to be removed prior to getting through. This sounds to me like a great way to spice things up, where pirate hunters and those whishing to take on a good guy role will have a job. For those who do commit a crime and are being chased by the local navy or Concorde will not have the option to just run to the nearest station and dock or jump gate and jump. Those who wish to setup a blockade will also then have to realize they might not be able to flee should a group decide to come in a bust the blockade.
Lieserl	Posted - 2003.08.04 06:15:00 - [30] Thank you Stavros, I attempted to get these points across in another thread and now even a pirate says the same thing
RazorDreamz	Posted - 2003.08.04 06:38:00 - [31] Why not simply warp in an indy, with EW. Once they start shooting pick one target and warp jam him. Then send in the fleet. All the pirates jump away. The one target has to stay cause he is jammed. Sure he probably blows up the indy, but as long as the indy lasts that 10 seconds for the rest of the team to target the pirate then someone else could continue the warp jam.. Now you will probably only get one pirate with this tactic, but I think it could work well. Could subsitute the indy or a blackbird or something else with tons to shield mods to keep it alive longer to ensure that your backup can make it in. --------------------------------------- CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003: Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.08.04 06:53:00 - [32] Razor, Nice idea - use a Badger Mk II and you might just last those 10 seconds. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Wolf Leader	Posted - 2003.08.04 07:11:00 - [33] Edited by: Wolf Leader on 04/08/2003 07:15:15 Edited by: Wolf Leader on 04/08/2003 07:11:58 Razor one of the finest ideas ive heard in a while. To think that when pirates form up tactics of escape and evasion. That Pirate Hunters should think of tacticts on thier own. I have seen a few smart hunting forces but very rarely. Most pirate hunters think they can warp in with an overwhelming force and just start shooting. Or in the example a corp completely without thought or planning. Last night Molly(Domnix), Ryoko(BLackB) ,and i(Moa) were blocking a gate. 3 Voyager Combine members appear in system. We think ok we may be in for a little fight. Bout 30 mins later in comes A BlackB a Domnix and some other cruiser. the BlackB target jams molly, ryoko scrambles dom and target jams it, i web it. realizing mollys bship cant attack i attack the BB bout 40 secs later bb warps away dmged. molly opens up on dom brining it to 5% hull about. ryoko has cap bug and scrambler drops off. dom runs away we chase to station. molly tanks sentry guns and shoots at dom agian bb undocks and jams molly i procede to blow up bb but was too late and the dom docked. Comes to our attenttion afterwards that none of their ships has any weapons on. At this point i fall out of my chair laughing. Their excuse for almost losing a dom and losing a bb was and i quote "Oh its only pocket change". Now is that smart tactics! When more bounty hunters start thinking more pirates might start dying. Props to misa or whatever your name was in the apoc who almost killed me and did whatever you came to do much more tactical than the other 3 goons... This got lotsa grammatical errors but i dont got time to go over it sorry to all who have to read it But im a nice guy.....
Xelios	Posted - 2003.08.04 07:27:00 - [34] Good idea Razor. Only downside is there has to be a pirate within 20km of the indy when it comes out of warp, and of course the indy has to survive long enough. I have my doubts that it would last even 10 seconds, as tekforce stripped the sheilds of my Rupture to half in one volley today, which has 3x more sheild than the Mk2 =P
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.04 07:37:00 - [35] Edited by: drunkenmaster on 04/08/2003 07:39:45 What's funniest is that soon, first strike will include taking a security hit, If Saturdays Sec drop for hunting a bounty in 0.0 is anything to go by... I lost more sec status tracking a neg sec bounty outside the empire than I have in 2 weeks of piracy.. Soon bounty hunters will have lower sec than me. 2 or 3 bounties, and they will be -5 sec. And thus unable to travel in high sec systems, and will be chased down by the police simply for trying to buy a skill. Also, I will be able to attack them anywhere, and suffer no consequences, as they appear to be 'worse' than me, and Concord will protect me. To be honest, I still haven't managed to think up a solution that will keep all parties happy. If you nerf the pirates, you super-nerf the bounty hunters. If you buff bounty hunting, you will inadvertantly be buffing pirates (and we know how popular that would be). Tough situation. --- <edit> concerning the above situation. The indy would die. We would all warp to moons. Pirates aren't stupid, we'd see it coming a mile off, unless you were waiting in another system, in which case it simply wouldn't work at all. .
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.08.04 07:43:00 - [36] "Soon bounty hunters will have lower sec than me. 2 or 3 bounties, and they will be -5 sec. And thus unable to travel in high sec systems, and will be chased down by the police simply for trying to buy a skill." 'tis what the agents with their sec status fix abilities are for... ;s
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.04 08:11:00 - [37] Quote: "Soon bounty hunters will have lower sec than me. 2 or 3 bounties, and they will be -5 sec. And thus unable to travel in high sec systems, and will be chased down by the police simply for trying to buy a skill." 'tis what the agents with their sec status fix abilities are for... ;s Oh yeah, forgot about that.. Good job I have an assload of agents. Until someone insists that pirates cant use agent sec boosts, or something equally daft .
Bongbla	Posted - 2003.08.04 10:00:00 - [38] Quote: concerning the above situation. The indy would die. We would all warp to moons. Pirates aren't stupid, we'd see it coming a mile off, unless you were waiting in another system, in which case it simply wouldn't work at all. So, what you're saying is in order to break up a blockade and send you all running, all I'll need to do is come in with an indy ship with a warp scrambler?
Tharrn	Posted - 2003.08.04 10:06:00 - [39] I haven't read it all, but...err...Stavros, what exactly will make it different from how it is now? Now: If a larger fleet warps in you jump or warp to safety. Then: If a larger fleet warps in you jump or warp to safety. Warp-tracking would solve the warp-away issue (including those comfy safe spots in the middle of nowhere). scratches head
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2003.08.04 10:27:00 - [40] Some way of tracking where a player is as long as you are in the same sector, would be very handy. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347 www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.04 10:28:00 - [41] Quote: Quote: concerning the above situation. The indy would die. We would all warp to moons. Pirates aren't stupid, we'd see it coming a mile off, unless you were waiting in another system, in which case it simply wouldn't work at all. So, what you're saying is in order to break up a blockade and send you all running, all I'll need to do is come in with an indy ship with a warp scrambler? No, I'm saying that if you tried this, we'd toast your indy. THEN, if you had a gank squad behind you, we'd jump away. If not, we'd pick through your remains like a pack of hyenas. Although you're welcome to try. .
Luc Boye	Posted - 2003.08.04 10:42:00 - [42] Why not just make "jump scrambler" as well? Simple and straightforward, without all this crap. I am sure that someone can rpg a background story for such a module. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Ackath	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:03:00 - [43] Hi all, been around these boards since beta but didnt bother to make and suggestion, till now :) : As Stavros said the pvp combat system in eve is hard to get in and easy to get out. Its obvious that you can get in combat only at SGs, stations, asteroid belts and rarely planets, moons or stars and changing this would require some change in game mechanics (although teh scanner could be made to trace all ships in system with some special skills) Now about getting out of the battle my suggestion is to make the area (maybe the grid) that the battle takes place in unwarpable and unjumpable (think space disturbance created by ammo etc..) that would make pirates travel a while before warping out thus giving a chance to the 20 BSs warping in to actually get a lock on. Of course the situation could be reversed, pirates warping in for instance :P This suggestion doesnt help with the blockade situations but, hey, its 0.0 after all...give pvp combat a chance! My 2 m00's ...err isks See ya
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:06:00 - [44] Quote: Now: If a larger fleet warps in you jump or warp to safety. Then: If a larger fleet warps in you jump or warp to safety. Yes, it's quite hard to spot the pirating nerf in this isn't it :p As far as i can see, given the mwd-outta-warp nerf, this is one up for the bad guys, one down for the travellers. But, you know, i fail to see this being a biggie... ________________________________________________ Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:35:00 - [45] About the MWD: There is a thread in patch review where I exchanged some ideas with DrunkenMaster and other peeps (it's always a pleasure to exchange POVs and ideas with reasonable people). About the combat: There is also a thread in the idea lab with some good ideas about it. Basically, there are combat systems all over the World, implemented in other MMORPGs. They have been tested for years, but EVE have to come with something new... . treat an individual or the gang he is in as ONE entity you attack a player. He (and his gang) can fire back for 30 minutes, no matter where you warp, where you go, what you do (logout, dock, jump, etc). Once the aggressor flag is up, it will be reset if you engage in combat (if you fire up any offensive module), so the 30 minutes start again. Problem solved. Oh, btw, CCP MUST fix this damn exploit where you can fight in 1.0 space without any trouble with the cops. Also, what about 9.9 sec rating pirates and -4.x + pirates flying unharmed through 1.0 space ? _______________________________________________
Molly	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:39:00 - [46] Oh, btw, CCP MUST fix this damn exploit where you can fight in 1.0 space without any trouble with the cops. Oh, btw, that's bull****. As soon as you destroy a ship there you get your arse jammed by CONCORD and you need to leave. So you might fight someone there, but surely not without any trouble. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:49:00 - [47] In my humble opinion Molly, you and your ilks should be KOS for Concord while in 1.0 systems. Plain and simple, and very realistic. :-) ________________________________________________ Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.08.04 11:50:00 - [48] Edited by: StealthNet on 04/08/2003 11:52:19 Quote: Oh, btw, CCP MUST fix this damn exploit where you can fight in 1.0 space without any trouble with the cops. Oh, btw, that's bull****. As soon as you destroy a ship there you get your arse jammed by CONCORD and you need to leave. So you might fight someone there, but surely not without any trouble. No, it is not bs when it's YOUR ship that was destroyed. It is not supposed to work this way, but it does. _______________________________________________
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.08.04 13:06:00 - [49] Basicly you have to use your brains now, and ill give you guys free advice: Load 2 scorpions full with 2 warpscramblers/ 1 stasis each, 1 large shieldbooster and some resistance shields. And 1 ECM of choice. Thats the mid slots... High slots: 1 gun by choice 1 launcher with heavy missles by choice... 2 launchers with anti rockets... Low slots: Put this full with 400mm's (give 500hp) And some PDS so you have bonus to many other items. These scorps jump in and starting scrambling 1 or 2 targets. They counter the heavy missles used by the pirates, and do some damage with their own stuff. Since the pirates in 4 battleships they starting to shoot, since they checked if a large force was comming but thats a system further.... Full in battle, by the time they notice the fleet the scorp have their victim caught and its a nice ride for the pirates to sit out. By the time the scorps are damaged, the large fleet a system further has passed the gates and warp in to finish of the two pirates scrambled... Their buddies will offcourse flee. And the smart bounty hunters who read my story will save the day __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Kel 'dra	Posted - 2003.08.04 13:57:00 - [50] Edited by: Kel 'dra on 04/08/2003 13:57:44 On a unrelated topic here. This patch is going to suck for people who are trying to protect there ore in HIGH security space. Example: There is a guy that is going around with a indy in 1.0 space steal ore out of peoples containers. Only thing that can be done to this point is to lure him to a station open fire on him, kill him fast and then redock. Once the patch comes out. We will have no way of killing these little theifs. They will be completely protected by CONCORD. I though they where supposed to protect the good guys. Not the bad guys! This would never happen in 0.0 space! Why is it so hard to protect your ore in HIGH Security space?
Eldariel	Posted - 2003.08.04 14:43:00 - [51] Edited by: Eldariel on 04/08/2003 14:44:50 I have no idea what TomB meant by this in last weeks CSM .... Quote: TomB > 4. Bounty hunter tools such as ******** will be coming in very soon, but also story related ... but it may make tracking pirates easier, in which just jumping away may not be sufficient ... Guess we'll have to wait and see
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 14:48:00 - [52] Edited by: Stavros on 04/08/2003 14:51:23 Ok basic problem with this game and fleets, is that fleets are already loathe to engage unless there is a 100% chance of a fairly lossless victory for them. So with this new patch, you wont see many more fleets dieing (ok so it might happen once or twice at the start) you'll just see less fleets fighting. Fleet A warps in, looks at fleet B, judeges they are of about equal size, and just says ah screw this and warps out. Then comes back later when half of fleet B has logged off. This patch doesn't do anything except ADD to the problems with combat in this game and that imho is DEFINITELY not a good thing. I have still yet to see a logical and well detailed example of WHY these changes are infact any good at all. Also I am no way advocating the removal of the 10 second warp in immunity thing. This was put in in beta due to people dieing before their computers had even loaded the gate/new system they had just warped/jumped to. So sadly it is a totally necessary evil, if a bit of an unrealistic one. Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Viceroy	Posted - 2003.08.04 14:52:00 - [53] Heh, if i see a lone scorp warp to gate with no backup while his friends are on local, i'll run for my life then :) But i agree that pirate hunters should use better tactics and ocasionally their brains. Pirates have very lethal tactics, but pirate hunters think that they can just warp in and destroy everything. Well, as Wolf said, thats not the case, if you warp in with a bigger force, we warp/jump out and you're left with your **** in your hand after all that organization and pep talk on gang chat But tactics like the jamming scorp/indy can make a pirates life considerably harder. You just need to invent a good strategy to fight pirates, even I've though up a few anti-pirate tactics that can be VERY annoying, but i'm not telling heh -
Jeff Jones	Posted - 2003.08.04 15:07:00 - [54] As has been said the easiest and simplest way to fix the "Warp to a bookmark in the midle of nowhere" is to allow tracking people as they warp around a system. To do so would require that you have them on screen first to, feck think up an RP reason "analysize their enginge signature" to stop people being able to make a beeline for others just after entering s system. That would still leave the jump/dock problem but would fix the warp away problem.
Hatsim	Posted - 2003.08.04 15:41:00 - [55] I just have to say this...! lets see when ppl get brain and skills. To be smart 4thewin! and ofc the bugged POS factor ingame should be solved! so lets see in 3-4 months if ppl still play! Me > you. Me > YOU! \o/
Shadowspawn	Posted - 2003.08.04 15:58:00 - [56] Possible Solution: a) Have a module that reduces the time it takes to lock on a ship when coming out of warp.. or hell reduce it across the board. In my opinon 10 seconds is waaaay to long of a time to begin with b) make a module that can "jam" gates and prevent either individuals that you "scramble" from warping through them or jam the gate itself so that NO ONE can warp through them... make the energy cost very high to use it.. and yes this would eliminate blockade runners but the no MWD out of warp probably will do that anyhow.. this way the attacking force can jam the gate to prevent their prey from escaping c) If you don't have either of the above and want to take out the pirates it is a simple matter of having a large enough force to wait on the other side of the gate for your prey to jump through. First group warps into sector and spooks the campers into the other system.. other system allready has gates camped.. the group that spooked them warps in to same sector and chases them around.. in some systems this would not be feasible but if the system only has 2 or 3 gates and a station or two a group of 10 battleships and some cruisers could lock it down pretty well.. the problem? getting behind the force
Len SaiMauni	Posted - 2003.08.04 16:41:00 - [57] Any of you guys (gals, whatever) "Starfire" players? There are similarities in this problem to warp point assults in that game. The main difference is that here you're dealing with low-down, dirty, skulking, thieving, no-good pirates who scurry away like the*****roaches they are when you flip on the kitchen light. That's as opposed to military forces who are conducting a point defense on a warp point, who won't run, but will fight to hold their space, which is the norm in "Starfire." There are still similarities though, such as the problem of breaching the point when your ships are suffering massive sensor and systems impacts from transit disorientation. It leaves you vulnerable for several turns to counter-attack from the defenders, and is simply a part of the process you have to deal with when assaulting a warp point, which is why the task is not undertaken lightly. In warp point assaults, you are going to lose a significant portion of your assulting forces, even if you accomplish the goal. That's simply a given. As I stated, however, since the tactical goals are different in this case, (for now; somebody start a multi-empire war, please), some of the tactics don't apply. However, there is one thing that comes to mind from my experiences with"Starfire" warp point assaults that might be workable in this case: warp-capable SBM-HAWK's, or Strategic Bombardment Missile, Homing All the Way Killer drones. The basic idea is that a drone is loaded up with independently targetable missile payloads, then sent through the warp-point (or stargate, in this case)to attack anything that falls within the parameters of its Rules of Engagement. Similarly, there's a tactic where carriers warp in, launch all fighters, and warp back out, only returning after a set time period to recover/re-arm. I'm aware none of this is possible within the game as it exists, I'm just throwing out ideas so that the problem could be addressed within the realm of combat gameplay, rather than through an arbitrary nerf. I don't like nerfs in general, but in a PvP-oriented game they can be devastating to playability. Personally, I'd like to see massive drone carriers, or even PF tenders (basically carriers for frigates) in the game. I think the best way to solve a combat-oriented problem is to give the opposing parties more toys to work with, rather than limiting their abilities arbitrarily. It's the way the real world works, after all: Side A develops SuperDuperKillerWeapon X, and it forces Side B to develop Anti-SDKW X countermeasures, or better yet, build SDKW XI.
SkyLeach	Posted - 2003.08.04 17:17:00 - [58] Edited by: SkyLeach on 04/08/2003 17:22:48 im afraid i have to compare EVE to another game for a minute... sorry. not the whole game, just one part of it. IF the travel system in EVE was a bit more like the one in Freelancer.. pirates would have more fun, could initiate fights in more places, stop trade lanes being used etc. so could their hunters... Combat in EVE would be a lot more fun and more varied, not just "hug station till victim arrives, gank them" or "hug gate till victim arrives, gank them" and no need for this annoying crap: "Target is invulnerable.." "Target is invulnerable.." "Target is invulnerable.." pwe pwe pwe pwe "Interferance from the warp Stavr0s is doing is preventing you from locking his reaper" People might be able to pod people without having to chase their pod to the station and *hope* they dont dock before you can lock, or you suffer similar to the above. People might then be able to take a bounty off an experianced PVP player, you know -- the ones who normally have bounties on their heads worth collecting. Right now combat is only possible if both sides agree to it, or because they have no option (lag, CTD) The only time i can think of people actually loosing their ships now without those factors, as in someone loosing their ship in non consensual combat is when: 1) They are AFK mining or autopiloting an indy/noob frigate. 2) They are in a frigate / indy any other senario and i can only see people dying when they are agreeing to fight, or if they bug out somehow. How about beacons marking trade lanes in systems? these can maybe be jammed with EW gear. jumpgates would need different EW gear to jam,... you shouldnt be able to fit both modules on one ship without serious penalty. my 2 isk, what you think
Skyy	Posted - 2003.08.04 17:45:00 - [59] The problem with combat in EVE, is that everyone wants to start a fight, but no one wants to finish it. Everyone wants a safe out in case their ship is gonna blow... everyone wants an easy way to win... everyone wants to be a tough guy, but as it turns out, no one wants to back it up. Do you think Mike Tyson wouldn't get in the ring unless he could magically teleport the second he knew he was gonna lose? You want to make combat fair? Here's how... if you start a fight and warp/jump away cuz you're getting your butt kicked... then you should lose your ship and crawl home crying in your pod. Especially you Billy Bob... lmao.
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.04 18:06:00 - [60] Starvos - What If we have a heavily armoured and shield dampened Battle or crusier with nothing armed but warp scrambles. You fire first the only thing he does is auto bust shields and warp jam just one of you while 2 sec after you start firing the rest of the fleet warps in not waiting for you to destroy the ship. If calculated correctly. You fire first the fleet warps in The shield is too armoured for you to take out right away. At least one of you might not get away. Call it a Kamakazee Jammer.
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 18:10:00 - [61] That might work but you have a couple problems, firstly I would smell at rat if like 10 people warped into local and then one ship approached the gate. Secondly it is highly doubtful that anything less than a bship could survive the time it would take for the other ships to warp in and save it. Best scheme so far though.. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.04 18:38:00 - [62] Edited by: Kalhan on 04/08/2003 18:39:21 I think it would work if timed just right. So 10 or 20 ppl appear in local. Your sceptical so you might not fire. You jump away smelling the trap, Nothing lost nothing gained. But lets say you take the bait. I'll play the Kammekazzee Jammer. In a ship with alot of med and low slots. Either a Dominix or a Tempest. With one or 2 Scamblers and a backup eccm, and the rest EM Shield Damps and Energized Armour mods. Maybe soon Nosforatu s In case I get close enough. But not needed. Ok.... I warp in. You are sceptical. I target you and you guys open fire. before I target you I get signal for rest, or I tell them to count to 5 after I warp to gate. Hoping that they start into warp as before the first shell hits me. With my mods your only doing less then 50% of the dmg. giveing me over 50% more survival time. When the rest of the fleet warps in either your buddies stay to finish me and try to warp out hopeing that The rest of the fleet does jam your friends. Or they run and leave you to us. Ok.... even if you don't fire I still warp jam my target. So I can't jump or dock but I am pretty sure that your friends will fire on me. then they can't as the rest of the fleet warps in.
Karif	Posted - 2003.08.04 19:21:00 - [63] You're all assuming local actually worked properly Granted, the starmap is a wee bit more reliable in getting a headcount, you don't get names, corps, etc... =============================== Deception + Information + Skill
Muaddid	Posted - 2003.08.04 19:28:00 - [64] Edited by: Muaddid on 04/08/2003 19:29:38 they should make it like in beta where when someone warped out near you, youd know where he was going by getting the warp message add to that , a "follow in warp" option for locked targets that warps out now u get some real chases :) as for MWD... i think they should reduce the penaility for using it, since its not as effective as before, and you still use alot of cap/cpu/pwoergrid. With -25% shields -25% cap, otherwise freelancers can say buh-bye to their ship if they go anywhere outside empire space On vacations (need a new sig too)
Dianabolic	Posted - 2003.08.04 19:34:00 - [65] my 2isk..... This game is about PvP, we should NEED each other. Gates should not allow ANY jumps if there is combat at the gate, AT ALL - for 5 minutes. Are you a trader? Are you annoyed you can't run the blockade? Tough, get over it - if this was a solo game you could moan - it isn't, you can't. Also, get rid of the invulnerability all together (I would like to see CCP change their loading priorities before they introduce this, so that the ship warping in is only shown in space once the client has loaded the space into which it is jumping. So, what does that leave us with? Merchant jumps in to pirate blockade - webbed, scrambled, dead. GOOD! Fleet jumps in to attack pirates, GAME ON! Everyone can lock, everyone can jam, everyone can web - we have CONFLICT. Some can run, some won't be quick enough, you WILL have battle. Also, the jump gates won't allow 2 ships to jump at the same time so, though one ship could jump to escape, because there is no delay in targetting - all it requires is ONE shot and the gate locks down. PvP!! It is why I brought this game and, atm, the mechanics seem to allow for people to avoid it if it doesn't suit them, THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED! If you don't want PvP, stay in empire space (assuming it works as advertised). The rest of us, let's have it in 0.0 - let's destroy ships - THAT, the destruction of ships, WILL stimulate the market because people will need to replace lost ships. Isn't THAT the essence of a "player driven economy"?
Stavros	Posted - 2003.08.04 20:29:00 - [66] Ok I have heard this so called 'kamikazee' jamming scheme over and over again. It might work on idiots and it might even work on good pirates once or twice, but to be honest we never hunt in less than about 4 and you are going to need a DAMNED uber bship setup to survive a pounding by 4 bships for any length of time at all let alone the minute plus it will take your friends to enter the system, warp to the gate and start attacking. Besides it isnt realistic OR fun to have to send in some kind of kamikaze type ship JUST to trap people to kill them is it? Well not imho anyway... Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Buddy Bruehller	Posted - 2003.08.04 21:19:00 - [67] Dianabolic, single worst ideas I've heard. Per your suggestion: When mining bistot on other side of blockade. People would have to clear the gate and wait 5 minutes each time? You are retarded yes? So may as well mine kern in empire as time it takes for ENTIRE corp to come clear gate everytime is stupid. When indy comes to gate with pos sec pirates he's dead no matter how smart or how much he plans ahead. Another stupid idea. You suggestions would drive everyone but a few from the server and the few left would be camping gates at opposite ends of the universe. If you want the shoot 'em up game go elsewhere mr. elite corp. Maybe you have time to go buy a new ship twice a day but some others who pay for game like you don't. And btw PvP is SUPPOSED to be optional in this game you twit. The idea of full server is good. That means that we ALL make allowances for ALL types of players. WHo said this wan't a solo game either? You are dumb to think that about 50-60% of time spent on-line is solo? Take a poll and find out how many people spend what % of time solo. You will find even most group type people spend some time solo. Hell our hero from star wars name is Han SOLO!!! Sorry to be so rude to you but you ask game to be made just for you and that is the most selfish statements I have heard from ANYONE in long time.
Bongbla	Posted - 2003.08.04 21:36:00 - [68] Quote: but to be honest we never hunt in less than about 4 Honesty apparently isn't your strong suit, I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen you all by yourself at a stargate. I suppose it's a stretch to expect someone to be able to trust a pirate anyway.
Garramon	Posted - 2003.08.04 21:55:00 - [69] Ok, so in warps 2 EW Battleships. There are 20 other people in the system from the same corp. Pirates say "Damn we are gonna get raped." They jump out/warp out. The 20 Industrial ships full of megacyte walk through the blockade.... ------------------------------------------------
Dianabolic	Posted - 2003.08.04 22:05:00 - [70] Buddy - thanks for the salient points of your post, I'll ignore the personal attack, thanks for that anyway though. :) Yes, PvP is optional in this game, you will see that I state if that is what you want to do, you should remain in Empire space, would you disagree with that? Or do you think people should be able to solo mine in 0.0? How would YOU suggest we prevent the "we're camped within 10k of a JG, we'll jump whenever we're ready" attitude that PREVENTS the PvP for those that DO want it? And, obviously, if people are in a system that has allowed pirates to camp a gate (non-empire space) then they MUST want it. Ultimately Buddy, I'm not going to ridicule your ideas because they are just that - your ideas. Your opinion. And opinions are like ********s, we all have one and they all smell just as bad. I can't speak for anyone else who plays this game because, ultimately, I play this game for me and no one else - if that means I am selfish then i am happy to be so. All I can do, Buddy, is say what I think would make the game more rewarding for me - as indeed that is all you can do, you make a huge presumption to think you speak for anyone but yourself. Then again, maybe you are just as selfish as I am?
Kalhan	Posted - 2003.08.05 13:45:00 - [71] Starvos - Hey Hey calm down, I was just trying to give tactical scenarios not say "we can beat you and your dead". That is a setup for 2 campers and the gate maybe 3. at 4 we use 2 ships. The primary goal would be 2 keep you there without really losing the EW ship. And if you think about it, if there are 4 of you and 2 ew warp in we wouldn't need 20 other ships. Maybe just 5 more ships. 2 target jammer/missle ships and 3 heavy fighters. 2ndly I said that the rest of the fleet would practicly be on my heels. Hoping that you take the bait right away and not hiesitate to fire at me. Espiecally if as soon as I warp in and 2 of you are there I target you and warp jam fast to make you and your friend (or friends if 4 of you and 2 EW ships). So there wouldn't be no min long wait for the 5 others. It would be..... I warp in, target, Warp Jam If timed right. As soon as you shoot the first round. 5 other BS warp in. Which means they would be on my heels, or on some count. I don't see why you are taking so much offence to my post. I didn't take any to you ranting about how this new patch will help you pirates "win" according to your first post. All the patch means is that we will all need to adapt, play smarter, be more tactical. After all its not who wins or loses it how you play the game.
Jehova	Posted - 2003.08.05 19:36:00 - [72] Quote: Some way of tracking where a player is as long as you are in the same sector, would be very handy. This is in AFAIK. Just use your contacts. _________________________________________________________ [email protected]
Eliadur	Posted - 2003.08.05 20:33:00 - [73] I think it should only apply to stations. If you started the combat, then the station isn't going to let you in. The 'defending' player should be allowed in, since he is normally being the one blockaded against, and his goal is to get through. But gates, on the other hand, shouldn't. I mean if in combat you can simply warp away, so why not simply jump? -Eli ---------- I think therefore I am.
Auronof	Posted - 2003.08.05 20:37:00 - [74] I have to admit i kind of like the idea of the delay for the initiator. One of my buddies was attacked at a jumpgate i had just passed through...i came back and approached the jumpgate as if i were on autopilot...one the pirate opened fire on me i released my heavy combat drones and my buddy warped back in...the pirate jumped right away leaving me really hungry for revenge.

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.