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Number 17 COLD-Wing 0	Posted - 2013.05.22 18:23:00 - [1] - Quote I know that with recent changes interceptors have been left behind and are pretty much repleaceable by any other frig. One of the interceptor bonuses is the warp speed, each race has a 9au/s and a 13.5au/s warp speed interceptor, but in reality this translates to pretty much nothing. The ideal of warping 2 or 3 seconds behind a bigger ship and landing before it is more or less an illusion except on really long warps where you get a 1 or 2 second advantage. I noticed that on a mid range 50 au warp you are more or less 30 seconds in warp, with a 13.5au/s ceptor. In reality you are only travelling at full warp speed for about 3 to 4 seconds. So what about adding a warp speed acceleration bonus so that instead of 10% of the time it turns to 60% of the warp time at full speed. And since I'm already writing to santa I might add: why not extend this bonus to mwd acceleration too? It's effects are pretty obvious and I would love to try it.
OfBalance Caldari State 503	Posted - 2013.05.22 18:26:00 - [2] - Quote Number 17 wrote: I know that with recent changes interceptors have been left behind and are pretty much repleaceable by any other frig. No, not really.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 899	Posted - 2013.05.22 18:34:00 - [3] - Quote All the inties are more or less terrible Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus) BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 225	Posted - 2013.05.22 19:05:00 - [4] - Quote for 1vs1 vs another frig yes they are terrible but that's not what they were designed for. The warp speed is fine, they can catch many things even if they warp after them a few seconds later
Drunken Bum 330	Posted - 2013.05.22 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand. Spare some change?-á
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 209	Posted - 2013.05.23 02:05:00 - [6] - Quote The Interceptors definitely need some love and I'm confident CCP is going to give some when they rebalance them. They just need slots, fitting and stat buffs, their bonuses are fine as it is and MWD sig reduction bonus is huge on tackling ships as well as point range, the combat interceptors especially were hit hard by the introduction of T1 attack frigs.
Ines Tegator Towels R Us 303	Posted - 2013.05.23 04:19:00 - [7] - Quote They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there?
Froggy Storm Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 39	Posted - 2013.05.23 08:15:00 - [8] - Quote My complaint is also the target range. I'd like to have more targets locked up as I circle in so I can see what is breaking away due to damage and what is just fleeing. This would allow better decision making on the part of the interceptors to lock down people trying to pull out of fleet engagements without putting you in as much danger. But that goes back to what folks have said above. Interceptors are a fleet specialist hull. Even in smaller gangs they can be less than ideal since they have low DPS and low staying power most of the time.
Number 17 COLD-Wing 1	Posted - 2013.05.23 08:36:00 - [9] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short. No they are not, hence my thread. Maybe my solution is not the best, but it is clear that something needs to be done about this, maybe if you undocked you would notice that you see all sorts of frigates replacing interceptors in fleets. mostly faction frigs. I eve fleet composition is about every pilot adding to the fleet, interceptors add very little nowadays and sometimes they are a -1.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 9525	Posted - 2013.05.23 09:42:00 - [10] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: All the inties are more or less terrible Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus) Combat Interceptors aren't great, because they're treading on the toes of what AFs and the T1 combat frigates do, and the idea of tiercide is that T2 isn't always automatically better. They probably need a new role (like "super god damb fast" for instance) The Tackle Interceptors have the point range bonus that makes them unarguably better at their specific role: getting and maintaining a point. They not intended to be better at raw boat-violence than even the T1 combat frigates. Anyone who disagrees is a moron. 1 Kings 12:11
Garresh Team Chicken and Waffles 208	Posted - 2013.05.23 09:59:00 - [11] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: All the inties are more or less terrible Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus) I agree in regards to combat/dps frigs, but the long point tackle ceptors are still useful in their niche. the 29km point by default, with their stupidly good speeds allows them to outrun drones and hold points on larger ships. ..That said, I still wind up using a Jaguar more often than a Stiletto when flying tackle, so I also think that ALL interceptors need some love. But TBH, that's because I often run my tackle Jags with a scram dual prop fit. Basically it's a fit designed specifically to **** on sniper fleets, which are incredibly common these days. Tldr; Combat inties suck the big one, Tackle inties are viable, but can be outclassed depending on fleet comp and targets. This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 169	Posted - 2013.05.23 11:48:00 - [12] - Quote Ines Tegator wrote: They are still the #1 fast tackle ship. Which is what they were designed for. You know, intercepting targets for your fleet. The only problem they have, IMO, is their targeting range is too short. Given their role this is the only thing I don't like about them too. They're cheap and effective for what they're used for, namely as an augmentation to a fleet for - tackle (duh) - scouting - setting up perches - setting up safes - going ahead of the fleet to form a rolling safe - establishing a tow-line - uncloaking ships on a gate Seems to me when I add all that up, that it's acutaly a damned USEFUL ship to have a few of in a fleet. It would be nice, however, if they could actually lock a target that you're approaching before you get in point range. I find it irritating that an "interceptor" with a point range bonus has such a short locking range that you're usually well within point range before you can get a lock, giving the other guy (imo) too much of a chance to get away . Lock ranges really need to be 60-70km. Otherwise things just happen too fast. Sure, they're squishy as hell but if they weren't you'd have an uber tackler and they'd be overpowered. That's why they were nerfed to begin with. I'm siding with "working as intended"
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 904	Posted - 2013.05.23 11:52:00 - [13] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Garviel Tarrant wrote: All the inties are more or less terrible Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus) Combat Interceptors aren't great, because they're treading on the toes of what AFs and the T1 combat frigates do, and the idea of tiercide is that T2 isn't always automatically better. They probably need a new role (like "super god damb fast" for instance) The Tackle Interceptors have the point range bonus that makes them unarguably better at their specific role: getting and maintaining a point. They not intended to be better at raw boat-violence than even the T1 combat frigates. Anyone who disagrees is a moron. Point range is cool, although long range pointing is mostly done by recons atm. But their targeting range is pathetic and their fittings are a joke. You seem to think that i'm saying that the tackle inties are bad because they aren't good at fighting, i reserve that for the combat ones. The truth is that the only tackling inti thats properly useful is the stiletto and even that is rather pathetic. The thing is that interceptors cannot function properly with JUST speed and point range. They also need the fittings to actually put crap on the ships, they need tank to survive long enough to hold tackle (At the moment they sort of tend to die before anything else can show up) they need the dps to be able to shoot down drones and they need midslots to field proper ewar (On a frigate, a midslot is worth two lows basically) So i say again, yes the tackling range on inties is nice. But they are still ****. TL:DR; Tackling inties are better than combat inties at their given role but they are still terrible. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Meditril T.R.I.A.D 284	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:50:00 - [14] - Quote Lets go trough the list of interceptors: Crusader: Crap. completely overshadowed by the Slicer. In fact it should be like the Slicer on steroids. Give it same bonuses as slicer in addition to small signature etc. Malediction: Absolutely awesome ship! In my opinion it is the best interceptor in the game. Crow: Use similar to Malediction, more DPS but less tank and point range. Good to use. Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one. Ares: Crap, but I never flow one. Taranis: In theory and past this was a DPS beast with high speed... but double webs everywhere killed it. Claw: Really crap. Too short range, too short less DPS, no tank all if you wanne be speedy. Stiletto: Good for tacking due to 4 slots. In my opinion following things are needed to fix interceptors: raise their targeting range by 30% in general. give all of them one more medium slot. all combat interceptors should get a range bonus for their guns: Crusader, Taranis and Claw. (Crow is fine as it is)
DeadDuck The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 40	Posted - 2013.05.23 12:52:00 - [15] - Quote Mostly all the tec2 ships, except, recons and AF's need a revamp. I'm quite sure that after these late changes to tec1 ships CCP will start looking at HAC's, Command Ships, etc..
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 169	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:31:00 - [16] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: The thing is that interceptors cannot function properly with JUST speed and point range. Depends on the role you've assigned to them. Personally I think that most people fit them incorrectly because they don't fully understand the role they're playing and/or they use them for a role for which they aren't ideally suited (putting a square peg in a round hole), which can give one the impression that they aren't very useful ships. Take a raptor, for example. It's easily fit to be faster than heavy missiles or even the fastest drones. And with the full monty of bonuses, heat, drugs and implants, that ship is faster than flaming snot. The raptor is also quite flexible. It can have a locking range out to 50km (before bonuses) with a sensor booster or it can use the utility mid for a module of your choice, like an AB, target painter, turret disruptor, scram, web or even a medium ASB or a shield extender if you don't like sig/speed-tanking. It also has more than enough dps to shoot down light drones if any do manage to get close. Add to that some mild pimping with a 33km point (before bonus) and I would describe it as anything besides useless for the role of light tackle..... and that's only ONE of the roles it can have in a fleet. You're obviously not going to use it to solo a battleship but you'll certainly hold on to one long enough for your friends to get there. In fact, the bigger the target, the more useful an interceptor becomes. Where they become useless is when you try to do things with them that they're not good at.... but what ship isn't?
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 226	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:40:00 - [17] - Quote ^ wholeheartedly agree with above post. What I've been taught in e-uni by an exceptional inty pilot from (i think) agony is that there's 3 layers of tackle. There's no universal "tackle" roles. Initial or first tackle: it's job is to hold it on grid, by any means prevent the warp. Stay alive long enough for secondary tackle to arrive. Second tackle: it's job is to slow the target down enough for the rest of the fleet to catch up and if necessary take over initial point if the other guy is getting low on hp. Fast frigate (often another inty but more directed towards tank and fit with a web as well as point.) 3rd tackle: glorified dps fit with web+scram. It's job is to be as unappealing target as possible to the victim while locking it down. inties are great at the first 2.
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 169	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:48:00 - [18] - Quote Meditril wrote: Lets go trough the list of interceptors: Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one. Ares: Crap, but I never flow one. I'm not trying to be rude, but that ^^ pretty much says it all. I think if you're going to declare something "crap" it's a good idea to have flown it at least once. And sure, dual webs are bad. so are smart bombs if you're trying to orbit at zero. The reason it think people have trouble flying interceptors is because they're tying to do the wrong things with them. (hint) The interceptor's guns literally should never be put on the primary target. It's best used as a fleet support vessel, not a solo PVP vessel..... They're supposed to get tackle and the GTFO as soon as someone in fleet has a secondary point. You're not supposed to go in balls deep with them on everything you attack..... Understand their role and you will understand that none of them are "crap". If you're going to try actually killing the primary with a frigate sized ship then look at AF's. I think you'll find that they can actually do what you seem to be expecting from interceptors. Quote: In my opinion following things are needed to fix interceptors: raise their targeting range by 30% in general. give all of them one more medium slot. all combat interceptors should get a range bonus for their guns: Crusader, Taranis and Claw. (Crow is fine as it is) I'd fully support point #1. Point #2 isn't really a big deal for inty's that have 3 slots already but for the couple that only have 2 slots it would really improve your options. Point 3 doesn't make any sense to me. The guns only need to have enough range to deal with light drones in order to do with those guns what they're meant for.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1385	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:04:00 - [19] - Quote Drunken Bum wrote: Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand. +100 Geez people. They are already on the list to get some love.
Meditril T.R.I.A.D 284	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:12:00 - [20] - Quote Tinu Moorhsum wrote: Meditril wrote: Lets go trough the list of interceptors: Raptor: Basically crap in my opinon, but I never flow one. Ares: Crap, but I never flow one. I'm not trying to be rude, but that ^^ pretty much says it all. I think if you're going to declare something "crap" it's a good idea to have flown it at least once. Sorry for being too short here. I think they are crap because so far I haven't found their benefit over Malediction and Stilletto from looking and toying with their fits, this is also the reason why I haven't tried them out. But I would be happy if you could enlight me and tell me where or under which conditions they excel over Malediction and Stilletto.
The VC's Spack Force 5 135	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:29:00 - [21] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Drunken Bum wrote: Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand. +100 Geez people. They are already on the list to get some love. So this. Relax guys, the balance is coming. I suspect out of all T2 frigs, inties will see the biggest changes. A few new midslots and extra fitting, more stuff. All your hopes fulfilled. It's daft that Amarr and Minnie fleet inties do combat inty better than their combat inties. I'd love to be able to fly them now but I guess I'll have to wait until ccp are done with the many other cool changes they're making and play with firetails, navy cruisers and navy BC's. One in five people are Chinese. There are five people in my family, so one must be Chinese. It's either my mum, my dad, my older brother Colin or my younger brother Ho-Cha-Chu. But I think it's Colin
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 226	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:39:00 - [22] - Quote I know the ares is quite widely used because of it's exceptional turret tracking and being able to remove light drones very efficiently. it also has the fastest base speed out of all the inties, better lock range than the malediction and tied at 2nd most agile. In fact I would say the ares is much better at it's job than the malediction. I would say the stiletto is the overall best inty simply because of it's slot layout. ASB and tracking disrupter is really strong
Gabriel Karade Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 106	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:40:00 - [23] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: All the inties are more or less terrible Anyone who disagrees is a moron (Yes i know the Taranis is sort of usable but i also know i reliably kill it in an incursus) Wrong. Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Tinu Moorhsum Random Events 169	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:44:00 - [24] - Quote Meditril wrote: Sorry for being too short here. I think they are crap because so far I haven't found their benefit over Malediction and Stilletto from looking and toying with their fits, this is also the reason why I haven't tried them out. But I would be happy if you could enlight me and tell me where or under which conditions they excel over Malediction and Stilletto. I appreciate that you have a preference, no objection there, however i'm not inclined to do someone else's homework for them. Moreover, I'm not sure that even if I did that we would settle on the same opinon, because some things really are a matter of opinion. Instead I'll give you a bit of advice. If you're EFT+¡ng things and wondering about how it would perform in game then we have great tool for turning theorizing into opinion based upon fact. It's called sisi. This honestly isn't intended to sound cynical so i hope it didn't come across like that. I'm just saying.... give a man a fish.... teach a man to fish..... sisi is an outstanding and very underutilized tool. Kind of like EFT for pros.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 905	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:44:00 - [25] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Drunken Bum wrote: Ship rebalancing is ongoing. I guess thats hard to understand. +100 Geez people. They are already on the list to get some love. Nothing wrong with making a post to try and increase CCP's awareness of it though. Don't be hating Also Tinu, You're not wrong about everything, but you are wrong about quite a few. For example Medi is completely accurate to mark those ships as crap. And all those things bout inties for tackle is good in theory but they just don't work that well. Believe me.. Inties area REALLY good at dying.. As they are now the only reason i would use an inti would be for the fast locking if i was in a fleet that didn't have the mids for remote sebo's. Comet/hookbill are superior. EDIT: And sisi is a TERRIBLE place to find anything out about your ship. Does not work at all as intended, mainly because all the people that use Sisi are on an entirely new level of terrible (Training an alt on sisi for titan links comes to mind) BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Gabriel Karade Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 106	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:44:00 - [26] - Quote Meditril wrote: Ares: Crap, but I never flow one. I'm sorry, but if you don't fly one/have never flown one you are in no position to comment. The Ares is superb at is designated role, if IF you are a competent pilot (not talking 'ace' - just not a ******). Sadly that rules out a significant proportion of New Eden. Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 905	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:46:00 - [27] - Quote Gabriel Karade wrote: Meditril wrote: Ares: Crap, but I never flow one. I'm sorry, but if you don't fly one/have never flown one you are in no position to comment. The Ares is superb at is designated role, if IF you are a competent pilot (not talking 'ace' - just not a ****). Sadly that rules out a significant proportion of New Eden. Superb? No.. But not a complete pile of **. Its usable. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
Gabriel Karade Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 106	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:49:00 - [28] - Quote ..."at it's designated role" - >5km/sec, 30km point, fend off flight of warrior II's no problem. Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1385	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:34:00 - [29] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: Nothing wrong with making a post to try and increase CCP's awareness of it though. Don't be hating No it's not. But to mitigate the potential "Hating" the OP could: 1. Put in their OP "I know these ships are slated for rebalance but..." to indicate they are aware the ships are in the rebalance queue and not just ranting unaware of this fact. 2. Post in Features and Ideas, where the devs actively monitor threads like this.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 906	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:37:00 - [30] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Garviel Tarrant wrote: Nothing wrong with making a post to try and increase CCP's awareness of it though. Don't be hating No it's not. But to mitigate the potential "Hating" the OP could: 1. Put in their OP "I know these ships are slated for rebalance but..." to indicate they are aware the ships are in the rebalance queue and not just ranting unaware of this fact. 2. Post in Features and Ideas, where the devs actively monitor threads like this. You can't post anything in the features and ideas and expect it to get noticed. the entire first page is stickies. And to Garbriel, Yes at its designated role its more or less usable. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!

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