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Sadly For The Duelist, Treachery is Inevitable?

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xJESTERx	Posted - 2005.10.28 11:53:00 - [61] Originally by: The Hanz Does quoting make you feel better about being a liar? No matter how you dress it, you screwed the pooch on this one and it's ugly. where in that statement did i lie? i merely stated my view on warfare. if ya don't like it hanzy, pick up your guns.
Karistis	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:01:00 - [62] Montcalm: refer to this guide if you want advice on how to deal with lamers like Pilots of Honor (ROFL I still think that name is hilarious). Hope you fare better against others Montcalm; dishonorable punks like taylor04 and his corp just should'nt be PvPing. _________________________________________ 2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice.
xJESTERx	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:08:00 - [63] i haven't yet touched this whole 1v1 issue yet, but here i go. First off i wasn't there, much like most of the people on this thread, though i was on our TS and on Eve at the time. Through all this "dishonour duel" talk i think taylor mixed up his words and adress it as a 1v1. all i heard on TS was "don't agree to the 1v1 just join his gang and fight and if he uses his jammers well help" or something along the lines. (not possitive, could be right, could be wrong) i don't even want to get involved on this topic but, personaly my view on dueling with ew is frowned upon. ive soloed ppl but not actually duelled, but to me a duel is an evenly matched as possible fight between two people. With eve not having "effective" jamming counter-measures, who ever is getting jammed just sits there. not much of a duel there imo. i don't recall thomas jefferson taking alexander hamilton's pistol away before their duel.
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:12:00 - [64] Originally by: xJESTERx i haven't yet touched this whole 1v1 issue yet, but here i go. First off i wasn't there, much like most of the people on this thread, though i was on our TS and on Eve at the time. Through all this "dishonour duel" talk i think taylor mixed up his words and adress it as a 1v1. all i heard on TS was "don't agree to the 1v1 just join his gang and fight and if he uses his jammers well help" or something along the lines. (not possitive, could be right, could be wrong) i don't even want to get involved on this topic but, personaly my view on dueling with ew is frowned upon. ive soloed ppl but not actually duelled, but to me a duel is an evenly matched as possible fight between two people. With eve not having "effective" jamming counter-measures, who ever is getting jammed just sits there. not much of a duel there imo. i don't recall thomas jefferson taking alexander hamilton's pistol away before their duel. nice speech, fact is though, your guy 1 v 1'd and then broke his word. PoH's name is now worth ****... what's more - instead of admitting it and dealing with it - the corp is here defending his actions so now you ALL look like liars and cheats.
xJESTERx	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:26:00 - [65] Edited by: xJESTERx on 28/10/2005 12:28:08 i just thought this post by grizzo zarr was kinda cool "I most certainly do NOT want some carebear game where everybody skips around singing and licking lollypops while the sun shines and birds chirp. I like an element of danger, of intrigue, of not knowing 100% if the person I'm talking to I can really trust. Sometimes, it rains and storms and you are betrayed...I find that fascinating, and the risk makes the game even more fun." Hey, we all have our opinions. If one person calls a box black and another person calls that same box white, what color is the box? -edit- and if you don't get what that means, your one of the "special" people, and the reason why we need warning labels on everything.
Indigo Callypso	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:49:00 - [66] Originally by: xJESTERx i haven't yet touched this whole 1v1 issue yet, but here i go. First off i wasn't there, much like most of the people on this thread, though i was on our TS and on Eve at the time. Through all this "dishonour duel" talk i think taylor mixed up his words and adress it as a 1v1. all i heard on TS was "don't agree to the 1v1 just join his gang and fight and if he uses his jammers well help" or something along the lines. (not possitive, could be right, could be wrong) i don't even want to get involved on this topic but, personaly my view on dueling with ew is frowned upon. ive soloed ppl but not actually duelled, but to me a duel is an evenly matched as possible fight between two people. With eve not having "effective" jamming counter-measures, who ever is getting jammed just sits there. not much of a duel there imo. i don't recall thomas jefferson taking alexander hamilton's pistol away before their duel. This is the second time in this thread someone has referred to old dueling. If you are going to use this particular code duello, then you must each use the same ships and set-ups, same damage types in your weapons and all. The only difference being the skill set you as a participant brings to the table. That's why they made MATCHED duelling sets. This code is obviously not the one used by people when they agree to a 1-v-1. I have also seen where people are saying Taylor mistakenly said 1-v-1. To those people...if you are going to be so nitpicky...even to the point of being a sea-lawyer about the actual words, then a mistaken utterance of 1-v-1 is DEFINATELY grounds for invoking the 1-v-1. It is extremely obvious from the chat posted so far, that a 1-v-1 was INTENDED by both sides. As to the use of ew...that can be debated as there are no written rules. However, it's pretty obvious here in this thread and every other thread I have ever read of this nature that the overwhelming majority believes 1-v-1 is anything as long as it stays 1-v-1, unless stipulated by the two duelists before hand.
Dak Hakin	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Ficti0n Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 26/10/2005 17:20:29 I would like to repeat something I've said many times before. Dishonoring a 1v1 for ANY REASON is LAME. I cant agree more, Pirates of honour, your the kind of corp that really dosnt belong in EVE. /signed _______________________________________________ I lost my parrot
Shimpu	Posted - 2005.10.28 12:57:00 - [68] Just lame! I'm sure you made many "friends" with such behavior...
Alazais	Posted - 2005.10.28 13:05:00 - [69] Wow isn't this a flamefest >.< Hey guys calm down, i don't think our guys are trying to justify ganking this dude, cause thats what they did. It wasn't fair.... thats obvious, neither was using EW against Taylors tempest. It may have been fair game, thats the issue here... however it wasn't "fair" by that all i mean the fight is like 95% of the time completely one sided when EW comes into play during 1v1. While that is only my opinion, its why i never do 1v1's as they usually lead to trouble. As for the people who think we've ruined our reputation you're completely missing the big picture. This guy who got killed in the Domi, his corp has declared war on a defenceless corp, its sick really. We're just here to defend them. As for us having no honour, if we had none then we wouldn't even be here to discuss it, we'd just say whatever. I'm not saying everyone in our corp is 100% filled with honour, but that doesn't mean just because of the actions of one person that everyone in my corp is a liar and dishonourable person. So please leave generalisations out of this thread. Thanks.
xJESTERx	Posted - 2005.10.28 13:06:00 - [70] Originally by: Shimpu Just lame! I'm sure you made many "friends" with such behavior... we sure have. we hit the pubs together every friday night and drink tea and play twister on sundays \¦.¦/
Brastagi	Posted - 2005.10.28 13:39:00 - [71] Edited by: Brastagi on 28/10/2005 13:43:58 So I guess the saying "Mano e mano" is dead now? /me miss the good old day back in junior highschool where he used to watch kids beat eachother ass on one-on-one brawl.... --------- For the ancient Archipelago Terra
KIATolon	Posted - 2005.10.28 14:05:00 - [72] Quote: As for the people who think we've ruined our reputation you're completely missing the big picture. Agreed. Your reputation as I saw it remains just as soiled now as it did before you guys did this... as it's the kind of thing I have seen you do before. It's tough to ruin the kind of rep you guys have made for yourselves ;)
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.10.28 15:08:00 - [73] Originally by: KIATolon Quote: As for the people who think we've ruined our reputation you're completely missing the big picture. Agreed. Your reputation as I saw it remains just as soiled now as it did before you guys did this... as it's the kind of thing I have seen you do before. It's tough to ruin the kind of rep you guys have made for yourselves ;) Cosmic Fusion KB
Coupo	Posted - 2005.10.28 16:42:00 - [74] Edited by: Coupo on 28/10/2005 16:43:19 Heres a little bit about honour: I give my word to one master and serve him until my end or his. So those who have been in more than one corp are dishonourable, i myself have left and rejoined PH so technically i have no honour until i have been forgiven by my CEO. Well i was invited back into PH, so the system dictates that i have honour again. If i had asked then i would be a slave to the CEO until he decides otherwise. I protect the weak We do not attack those that have the capability to defend themselves. If you are in 0.0 space then you are expected to be able to fight. If you cannot you can demand amnesty for removal from the area. If seen in that area again you are seen as dishonourable, and henceforth attacked on sight by all who reside there. This part includes "i will not attempt to extort money from the weak", it is perfectly acceptable though to demand money off those who are not weak. My word is my Bond it is dishonourable to say one thing and do another. Those who have posted will most likely latch onto this one and cry havoc but the fact of the matter is taylor never said "lets 1vs1" he said lets fight, yes he may appear to have been deceiving to montcalm who turns out to be a 12 year old, but the fact is he wasnt. I shall not deceive my peers or my equals Hidden weapons, things that make unfair fights are dishonourable. That for eve makes EW unfair, i myself never use it in 1vs1s. I have had many 1vs1s that funnily turn out to be ganks, i attest that F-E/IRON/G/PA/5/SE/SA/FREGE/NXU resident corps and even member corps have attempted to gank me during a 1 on 1, infact ive never had a 1vs1 that didnt turn out to be a gank. Honour does not dictate that the Corp/Alliance is at fault but the person, and therefore not shown honour in return from that point on until they rectify the fault. Peers: Executors of alliances and CEOs of corporations that demand respect. Equals: Fellow PVPers who show honour, ie not killing someone when they call for amnesty. Most of the poeple in EVE who PVP do not show honour, montcalms corp is one of them. Dueling It is infact dishonourable to kill your opponent during a duel unless the opponent agress it is to the death. This means it is dishonourable to pod the opponent, once the duel has been fought the person is given amnesty to return home. And the list goes on and on and on and on and on.. Honour is not a simple "i choose that part and this part but ill ignore this part" it is a way of life, many people who have posted do not understand honour otherwise they would not have posted. The list goes on and on and on and on.. Finally: This entire thread can be solved in one action.. montcalm demanding a 1vs1, when its fought everyone who has posted here is honourbound to say "we were wrong we offer our appologies". This will be evemailed to montcalm himself and he can choose the time and place he will be alloud to fight ONE 1vs1 versus taylor, once fought if he loses he is to post on here retracting his statement, if he wins taylor will post offering his appologies. Afterwards this honour dispute will be solved. Those who will laugh at this post and or refuse to accept it , should think again before posting in a thread about honour as you obviously have none. I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.28 17:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Alazais It wasn't fair.... thats obvious, neither was using EW against Taylors tempest. Why? Since when is using EW not allowed in a duel? You never agreed that it was, according to the logs. So why claim that it wasn't fair? Or did you just make that up? - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Firstname Lastname	Posted - 2005.10.28 17:52:00 - [76] MORE LIKE PILATES OF HONOR
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.10.28 18:01:00 - [77] Treachery certainly isn't inevitable. I've done lots of duels and they've all been relatively honorable, once I ctded as I warped to the guy I was dueling ;p and once I got on again I was in a pod, but that was just bad luck. When doing a duel you just need to make sure that both parties understand the rules, and that if it's someone you don't trust all that much that he doesn't have lots of backup in system. Usually people care more about their reputation than about blowing up a single battleship.. One thing I did once was make a forum thread listing the rules and terms of a duel and bringing a neutral referee in to oversee the duel :¦ That way is most fun since you can let people gamble and it's so public that people won't dishonor it.. Anyways, I've never had problems with the people I've dueled, nor the people who've ransomed me for that matter. http://eve.klaki.net/
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.10.28 18:06:00 - [78] I'm absolutely convinced that those whining about people using EW in 1v1s are just "limited" intelligence types who didn't pass the fractions unit in math class in the 7th grade(I know it's a push to assume that their age >/= 12) and have no chance in understanding how EW works these days
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.10.28 19:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Coupo Edited by: Coupo on 28/10/2005 16:47:03 Edited for spelling. Heres a little bit about honour: I give my word to one master and serve him until my end or his. So those who have been in more than one corp are dishonourable, i myself have left and rejoined PH so technically i have no honour until i have been forgiven by my CEO. Well i was invited back into PH, so the system dictates that i have honour again. If i had asked then i would be a slave to the CEO until he decides otherwise. I protect the weak We do not attack those that have the capability to defend themselves. If you are in 0.0 space then you are expected to be able to fight. If you cannot you can demand amnesty for removal from the area. If seen in that area again you are seen as dishonourable, and henceforth attacked on sight by all who reside there. This part includes "i will not attempt to extort money from the weak", it is perfectly acceptable though to demand money off those who are not weak. My word is my Bond it is dishonourable to say one thing and do another. Those who have posted will most likely latch onto this one and cry havoc but the fact of the matter is taylor never said "lets 1vs1" he said lets fight, yes he may appear to have been deceiving to montcalm who turns out to be a 12 year old, but the fact is he wasnt. I shall not deceive my peers or my equals Hidden weapons, things that make unfair fights are dishonourable. That for eve makes EW unfair, i myself never use it in 1vs1s. I have had many 1vs1s that funnily turn out to be ganks, i attest that F-E/IRON/G/PA/5/SE/SA/FREGE/NXU resident corps and even member corps have attempted to gank me during a 1 on 1, infact ive never had a 1vs1 that didnt turn out to be a gank. Honour does not dictate that the Corp/Alliance is at fault but the person, and therefore not shown honour in return from that point on until they rectify the fault. Peers: Executors of alliances and CEOs of corporations that demand respect. Equals: Fellow PVPers who show honour, ie not killing someone when they call for amnesty. Most of the poeple in EVE who PVP do not show honour, montcalms corp is one of them. Dueling It is infact dishonourable to kill your opponent during a duel unless the opponent agress it is to the death. This means it is dishonourable to pod the opponent, once the duel has been fought the person is given amnesty to return home. And the list goes on and on and on and on and on.. Honour is not a simple "i choose that part and this part but ill ignore this part" it is a way of life, many people who have posted do not understand honour otherwise they would not have posted. The list goes on and on and on and on.. Finally: This entire thread can be solved in one action.. montcalm demanding a 1vs1, when its fought everyone who has posted here is honourbound to say "we were wrong we offer our appologies". This will be evemailed to montcalm himself and he can choose the time and place he will be alloud to fight ONE 1vs1 versus taylor, once fought the matter of honour is solved. Those who will laugh at this post and or refuse to accept it , should think again before posting in a thread about honour as you obviously have none. So basically, Alexander Hamilton should had his cronies jump in and kill Aaron Burr. Dumb bastard. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Coupo	Posted - 2005.10.28 20:05:00 - [80] oh i see, so a code of honour is dumb? right then why is everyone *****ing? problem solved right there I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.10.28 20:09:00 - [81] Originally by: Coupo oh i see, so a code of honour is dumb? Not at all, what is dumb is not including duels on that code of honor...esp in Eve. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Malacore	Posted - 2005.10.28 20:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi So basically, Alexander Hamilton should had his cronies jump in and kill Aaron Burr. Dumb bastard. Alexander Hamilton shouldn't have dueled Aaron Burr at all because the man was unstable.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.10.28 20:39:00 - [83] Originally by: Malacore Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi So basically, Alexander Hamilton should had his cronies jump in and kill Aaron Burr. Dumb bastard. Alexander Hamilton shouldn't have dueled Aaron Burr at all because the man was unstable. ~Captain Cutie, HFS Event Horizon Biomass fears me. Sovereignty 2.0
Coupo	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:26:00 - [84] Quote: Not at all, what is dumb is not including duels on that code of honor...esp in Eve. Standard pilots cannot take on duels during war, only people who can are the leaders of the armies, ie corps, when the duel is complete the victor of the duel is the winner of the war. I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
insuperable	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:26:00 - [85] I can assure you we stick to our word. Im sure most of our past enemies would state that. Including Everlasting Vendetta, maybe you should change your name? Your vendettas dont seem to last long, afterall you joined Forsaken Empire. ParMizaN, I was not aware of that. I know that we had a few 1 vs 1 and afaik they were honoured. Unfortunatly I have been away for a few days and am not entirely aware of the situation, however, Montcalm if you would like to convo me ig, we could sort this out, and that goes for anyone who has a problem with our corp or our name. Interesting... Gallery
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.10.28 21:35:00 - [86] Originally by: Coupo Quote: Not at all, what is dumb is not including duels on that code of honor...esp in Eve. Standard pilots cannot take on duels during war Why? Because you said so? And if so, why did you let your member take on a duel? - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Apaullo	Posted - 2005.10.28 22:34:00 - [87] The honorable man would have lost his ship and preserved his honor, even if there was a "foul" committed. The coward calls for his back-up rather than lose his ship. Even had I been "fouled" rather than ruin my own honor by calling in help, I would have lost my ship before turning coward. The "foul" can be redressed at a later date. Of course as I see it there was no foul, only a BS excuse to gank someone. The rules of an engagement, if it is to have rules, must be laid out beforehand. If you challenge me to a fight on the street and I dislocate every joint in your body, it's too late to say "oh, I meant boxing rules only, no Aikido". You wanted to box it must be stated beforehand. Any repercussions for your ineptitude only highlight that ineptitude and your lack of honor.
Phant Zon	Posted - 2005.10.28 22:56:00 - [88] The lesson to be learned from all this is, ALWAYS have dependable seconds at your duel.
Gronsak	Posted - 2005.10.29 01:20:00 - [89] Originally by: Karistis Don't accept 1v1s with Pilots of Honor or The Munchkins. They both use Send me a mail ingame and let me know where these guys hang out, although I doubt I will get any kills if they are using these kinds of tactics. them there are fighting words buddie just did a check on your -5 ass and ur not loged on, or id of found you and shown you what a single PH pilot can do
Firstname Lastname	Posted - 2005.10.29 02:26:00 - [90] Edited by: Firstname Lastname on 29/10/2005 02:26:41 Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Karistis Don't accept 1v1s with Pilots of Honor or The Munchkins. They both use Send me a mail ingame and let me know where these guys hang out, although I doubt I will get any kills if they are using these kinds of tactics. them there are fighting words buddie just did a check on your -5 ass and ur not loged on, or id of found you and shown you what a single PH pilot can do Call his friends in and ambush someone? P.S. I'll save you some time: I'm in Reblier, come get me cowboy

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