Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range.

Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range.

Well, that's good news, then.

But still, it forces me to collapse all active wormholes and immediately stop everything as soon as a new signature pops up. It's a shame that I'll have to pick between mining and having visitors in my system.

You're never safe in Eve. Get used to it.

Which is what most WH miners do already? Mining with open WH's is a bad idea regardless.

New overlay will have infinite scanning range.

No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect).

But if you're mining to pass the time and would welcome visitors to your system (with a hail of bullets ) then closing wormholes is awful as far as potential pewpewing goes.

chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers

This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing!

How do you propose it should work then?

chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers

This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing!

Please do something about this! New signatures popping up instantly is absolutely horrible. Put in a delay at the very least (1 hour or so)!

Instant signatures on overlay means safer wormholes. No WH dweller worth their salt would want this.

Also why remove sleepers from radar and mag, might aswell pull em of ladars too then, so those we are 5 ppl in a c5 and farm all day corps can get internet spaceships rich, while never ever have to worry about getting jumped while farming ever.

is it actually in odyssey?
because it's not at the moment you know, it's 64au.

I was thinking 100% same thing. Normal on-board is up to 64AU, it's not a deep-space scanner obvious.

I don't even get it whilst persons/corps are complaining about getting ganked during mining ops in a WH. Obvious they're doing things wrong.

Me and James are talking to CCP about probing and overlay. Your concerns are posted on internal CSM/CCP forums and CCP is aware of the issues.

I was thinking 100% same thing. Normal on-board is up to 64AU, it's not a deep-space scanner obvious.

I don't even get it whilst persons/corps are complaining about getting ganked during mining ops in a WH. Obvious they're doing things wrong.

How do you propose it should work then?

@ CCP, is there a delay in time between a new signature spawning and the "discovery scanner" detecting the new signature?

If not i would suggest that you add one. Add a 5 minute delay between a new signature (i.e. a wormhole) spawning and the discovery scanner being able to detect it... but for pilots that are using probes and actively pressing the scan button, reward their efforts by having no delay between probe scanning and new signature detection.

WHAT SAY YOU?

Thanks for passing this onto CCP.

Cap escalations are already notoriously hard to catch, this change just makes it ridiculous...

Chitsa im counting on you!

No way in hell that farmers don't have to drop probes to check for incoming wormholes. You know as much as me, that little extra time where they don't notice the new sig can make or break if you catch them or not.

Tuna

Chitsa im counting on you!

No way in hell that farmers don't have to drop probes to check for incoming wormholes. You know as much as me, that little extra time where they don't notice the new sig can make or break if you catch them or not.

Tuna

I know this will change alot of wormhole mechanics.. But imagine the glory in nullsec.. Jump in warp right to ice belt bubble and PEW PEW.. It will be glorious..
NULL tears shall create new rivers!

I know this will change alot of wormhole mechanics.. But imagine the glory in nullsec.. Jump in warp right to ice belt bubble and PEW PEW.. It will be glorious..

NULL tears shall create new rivers!

An hour is pretty long. That said, there is an argument to be made that the time should be greater than zero.

A lot of the specifics are not set in stone yet, so we'll be talking with CCP about how different design choices they have will affect wspace people as well as kspace.

Tuna I am aware of how ridiculous this will be for catching people in whs as I do this myself. Believe when I say that I am interested myself for this mechanic do get delayed mode or even to remove sigs from overlay.

The instant intel from the DS is the replacement for the gankers no longer needing to put out probes to find the grav site. Removing the possibility for the miner to GTFO when they see trouble coming will kill mining in lower-class WHs--thus reducing the number of targets you have available.

Honestly, it's balanced right now.

Tranquility server: Gankers have to put out probes to find the miner, miner can see probes on dscan.
Odyssey patch: Gankers don't have to put out probes to find the miner, miner can see new sigs on overlay.

It's already a bigger buff to the gankers, since the time it takes to find a miner has been sped up greatly. It's also a win for the gankers if you find an already-open hole.

This is a much bigger issue than ganking miners. Cap escalation fleets, t3s doing sites, industrials doing PI. The list goes on and on. I am honestly confused how any WH resident could call this "balanced" now.

it isnt just about miners, it's about getting any wort of kills, specifically capital escalation fleets.

It is an issue. Although I am curious on a sidenote about Cap escalation fleets. I haven't yet had the priviledge of playing at the varsity level, but I don't understand the difficulty catching a cap escalation fleet. When the dreads on field siege aren't they stuck? so essentially depending on the timing the fleet is stuck there for 5 minutes if a new sig spawns, unless they wanted to leave the sieged caps behind?

All I see here is wah wah wah we wormhole snowflakes don't like any change whatsoever, please hand us easy living on a plate wah wah wah.

CCP, make it much more random and give us constant change and more change, please! It should be, "OK what have we been given and how will we handle it", not "CSM this and CSM that please protect us!!".

(My main lives in a wormhole but doesn't have a gigantic blob alliance to rest on as most WH alliances have become)

Not wanting instant and free intel is not equal to wanting easy living, on the contrary. We like having to work for our intel, unlike the sheep in null.

You reference this one point of change but it's the same with any suggestion of change in wormhole life.

I think it has become pretty stale now compared to the day the first wormholes opened. Please give us back the the excitement of Apocrypha where everything was new and no one has a guaranteed, safe place.

Shake it all up, a change to every single mechanic would be nice!

If you'd bother to look up some of my posts

In short, I'm all for making things more difficult and exciting, rather than introducing even more mechanics to make things even safer for everyone.

I've previously suggested that wormholes would be scannable on both sides when they spawn, regardless of whether they are warped to or not

Thus making it even harder for a gank fleet to catch people unawares.

(My main lives in a wormhole but doesn't have a gigantic blob alliance to rest on as most WH alliances have become)

I also think CCP should change things that affect the top alliances as well as the new settlers. Use more bar graphs instead of cut and pasteable numbers to lessen the advantage of OOG tools. Monitor the tears in this forum to see what upsets the big alliances the most - they are the changes we all need!

Elite scanning carebearism has had its day. Let's have some change, any kind of change, all kind of change.

All I see here is wah wah wah we wormhole snowflakes don't like any change whatsoever, please hand us easy living on a plate wah wah wah.

buddy, post with your main or stop caring that youre being ignored. pick.

Wait, what? You think the w-space community strive for "easy living"? You think that's what they do, that's why they settled something that was not supposed to be settled in the first place.

Elite scanning carebearism has had its day. Let's have some change, any kind of change, all kind of change.

mine in order to replenish ammo and other consumables

Not the tools, the number of people who have proudly expressed all their scanning skill levels in their fight to keep DSP and the little numbers for scan strength and, with the CSM's help, prevent anyone else having a more friendly visual scanner.

Again, CCP, please shake up the whole wormhole game and give us some challenges to overcome again. Introduce all you have suggested and even some you haven't mentioned yet! Sure there'll be some rebalancing and lots of tears, but there'll also hopefully be more game and less sheepish following of all the WH guides that are now totally established and therefore stale.

The best years of Apocrypha, in my opinion of course, were when we were all trying to work out what was going on. I think we all know all the maths and game styles now, it's too much like nullsec in that sense. If WH people can't adapt, maybe freeze WH space as it is and introduce a new kind of space for, what shall we call them, explorers? You know what, CCP, maybe this new space should be engineered to make permanent residence even harder still.

Not the tools, the number of people who have proudly expressed all their scanning skill levels in their fight to keep DSP and the little numbers for scan strength and, with the CSM's help, prevent anyone else having a more friendly visual scanner.

All I see here is wah wah wah we wormhole snowflakes don't like any change whatsoever, please hand us easy living on a plate wah wah wah.

CCP, make it much more random and give us constant change and more change, please! It should be, "OK what have we been given and how will we handle it", not "CSM this and CSM that please protect us!!".

(My main lives in a wormhole but doesn't have a gigantic blob alliance to rest on as most WH alliances have become)

Except that I started this thread specifically with miners in mind, it's you guys who pulled a colossal derail on me.

While I fully agree the new overlay shouldn't give players intel on a silver platter, everyone seems to have conveniently ignored that these changes completely ruin any logical reason to mine ore in w-space. The fix is easy, too, just convert only the k-space gravimetrics into anomalies, and leave the w-space ones as signatures. Because let's be realistic here, if you're in w-space and don't have probes to find a grav belt, you have way bigger problems anyway.

[quote=Amanda Chelian]The whole notion of moving Grav sites to anoms is stupid. I've yet to see a cogent explanation from CCP as to why this is a good idea other than to make it easier for new players to find.

Seriously, what does CCP have against folks that mine in WHs?

What are you on about? You now have the same or less risk then site runners or any other pve activity in w-space(except ladars and DATA/relic sites).
Even bether then sites where the sleepers scramble !