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Amanda Chelian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:05:00 - [1] - Quote If I understand correctly, all current gravimetric sites will become cosmic anomalies called "Ore Sites" when Odyssey arrives. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this make ore sites in w-space even more pointless than they already are? Currently, their ISK/hour is about the same you'd get in a decent nullsec system, and you can't rely on local as an advance warning to get ready to PvP, so you have to be constantly spamming d-scan to detect probes. If they turn them into anomalies, then the advance warning you get due to someone having to scan down your site (or your ship) is gone, no? They can just fly around with a cov ops and pinpoint your location without you having any remote idea that you need to get out of your mining ships and into combat ones. I really hope I'm wrong, because I like to occasionally mine in order to replenish ammo and other consumables, but if the new ore sites are going to be glorified deathtraps, I might as well import everything.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost 36	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:41:00 - [2] - Quote You forget that the new overlay makes it a lot easier to see new incoming wormholes. You can see new signatures without probes.
Amanda Chelian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:44:00 - [3] - Quote Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range.
Svodola Darkfury Heaven's End League of Infamy 184	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:52:00 - [4] - Quote Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect).
Amanda Chelian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:56:00 - [5] - Quote Well, that's good news, then. But still, it forces me to collapse all active wormholes and immediately stop everything as soon as a new signature pops up. It's a shame that I'll have to pick between mining and having visitors in my system.
Chitsa Jason Infinity Explorers Exhale. 527	Posted - 2013.05.26 19:57:00 - [6] - Quote Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
Crozo Yotosala Team Pizza No Holes Barred 315	Posted - 2013.05.26 20:48:00 - [7] - Quote You're never safe in Eve. Get used to it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=51224&find=unread
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 1507	Posted - 2013.05.26 21:06:00 - [8] - Quote Right now, the overlay isn't instant. New signatures won't appear until you change your filters. So the new dscan smashing is flipping filter settings around. It may be a bug, or they might leave it that way, hard to say. Of course, you'll have to dscan smash as well. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1385	Posted - 2013.05.26 21:07:00 - [9] - Quote Amanda Chelian wrote: Well, that's good news, then. But still, it forces me to collapse all active wormholes and immediately stop everything as soon as a new signature pops up. It's a shame that I'll have to pick between mining and having visitors in my system. Which is what most WH miners do already? Mining with open WH's is a bad idea regardless. And mining has always been mostly pointless in WH's. The isk/hr sucks compared to almost any other activity. You can't get any efficient refine. And the only way you can get the ore out without totally losing your sanity is to invest huge isk in a rorq to compress it. Personally I'm delighted. Its one more thing I can easily right click and ignore when roaming WH space for either an exit or targets. And knowing most miners. They will still mine away.
Skeln Thargensen Thargensen Plumbing Services 170	Posted - 2013.05.26 21:20:00 - [10] - Quote I don't really know why they don't have everything in signatures, it's very easy to stalk people in covops ships. freelance space bum
Amanda Chelian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.26 23:11:00 - [11] - Quote Crozo Yotosala wrote: You're never safe in Eve. Get used to it. I'm quite used to it. If I wasn't, I'd still be in high-sec flying ships that aren't worth suicide-ganking, not screwing around in w-space. My gripe with this change is that it arbitrarily makes players in gravimetric sites a whole lot more vulnerable than other sites for no apparent reason, other than making ore sites easier to find. And while easy-to-scan ore sites must sound great for high-sec dwellers, in w-space it does nothing but add a significant security risk for a reward that was already bad and underused. Derath Ellecon wrote: Which is what most WH miners do already? Mining with open WH's is a bad idea regardless. If mining is the only thing you want to be doing, then it's a bad idea, sure. But if you're mining to pass the time and would welcome visitors to your system (with a hail of bullets ) then closing wormholes is awful as far as potential pewpewing goes. I really like the current system because there is some effort involved in finding someone in a gravimetric belt, which offers the miner a bit of time to get in a proper combat ship, provided they're willing to spam the d-scan for potential threats. But with Odyssey, it seems I'll have to make a binary choice of either sitting around being bored until players stroll in (PvP), or destroying all wormholes so I can mine without the risk of an undetectable ambush (PvE).Something that used to combine the best of both worlds will now be fragmented into two that ensure a lot of boredom. Feels like CCP just wants us to completely ignore ore in w-space and just import everything.
Oxandrolone Bite Me inc Bitten. 179	Posted - 2013.05.27 00:17:00 - [12] - Quote Chitsa Jason wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing!
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1893	Posted - 2013.05.27 00:36:00 - [13] - Quote Svodola Darkfury wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect). is it actually in odyssey? because it's not at the moment you know, it's 64au.
Aquila Sagitta Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS 35	Posted - 2013.05.27 00:45:00 - [14] - Quote Amanda Chelian wrote: But if you're mining to pass the time and would welcome visitors to your system (with a hail of bullets ) then closing wormholes is awful as far as potential pewpewing goes. Bait Skiff
Chitsa Jason Infinity Explorers Exhale. 530	Posted - 2013.05.27 01:21:00 - [15] - Quote Oxandrolone wrote: Chitsa Jason wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing! How do you propose it should work then? CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1893	Posted - 2013.05.27 02:45:00 - [16] - Quote Chitsa Jason wrote: Oxandrolone wrote: Chitsa Jason wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing! How do you propose it should work then? new sigs should not just pop up automatically, it's silly. should require you to hit scan at the very least, preferably with probes out.
Warlord Shat Bite Me inc Bitten. 10	Posted - 2013.05.27 03:17:00 - [17] - Quote Create a separate category for WH sigs so they don't show on this new scan tool thing This is not a change that can go through
Indo Nira DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized. 76	Posted - 2013.05.27 04:01:00 - [18] - Quote yo. how the **** does anyone know how the new system works? ENTIRELY?? did you sit on sisi in a wormhole for 24 hours waiting for new sigs? i'm not sure you can certainly say how it works or not just yet. jump off the fuckin bandwagon, will ya? and yes it is infinite range, and you don't have to change filters, all you do is alt+d twice then the scanner window is refreshed (when you jump into a new system)
Van Kuzco Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno 66	Posted - 2013.05.27 04:31:00 - [19] - Quote Oxandrolone wrote: Chitsa Jason wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing! Please do something about this! New signatures popping up instantly is absolutely horrible. Put in a delay at the very least (1 hour or so)! Instant signatures on overlay means safer wormholes. No WH dweller worth their salt would want this.
James Arget Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 129	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:03:00 - [20] - Quote Van Kuzco wrote: Oxandrolone wrote: Chitsa Jason wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. New overlay will have infinite scanning range. chitsa please bring this up with your CSM powers This is a ridiculous change they already said over and over that cap escalation farming is too easy now they're going to get warning of new sigs without even probing! Please do something about this! New signatures popping up instantly is absolutely horrible. Put in a delay at the very least (1 hour or so)! Instant signatures on overlay means safer wormholes. No WH dweller worth their salt would want this. An hour is pretty long. That said, there is an argument to be made that the time should be greater than zero. A lot of the specifics are not set in stone yet, so we'll be talking with CCP about how different design choices they have will affect wspace people as well as kspace. James Arget for CSM 8! Wormholes and the Player Perspective http://csm.fcftw.org
Pitt POssum Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 4	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:31:00 - [21] - Quote How about...just not showing sigs on that thing, only anos (and stuff thats automatically 100% with onboardscanner). I mean they went full CCP here again. This is the typicall not thinking it through at all thing they pull every now and then. No they always do, not only every now and then. And its not like they will change it anytime soon, because "its kinda working now". Also why remove sleepers from radar and mag, might aswell pull em of ladars too then, so those we are 5 ppl in a c5 and farm all day corps can get internet spaceships rich, while never ever have to worry about getting jumped while farming ever.
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 462	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:04:00 - [22] - Quote Pitt POssum wrote: Also why remove sleepers from radar and mag, might aswell pull em of ladars too then, so those we are 5 ppl in a c5 and farm all day corps can get internet spaceships rich, while never ever have to worry about getting jumped while farming ever. Good thing then that it's not going to happen. .
Chitsa Jason Infinity Explorers Exhale. 531	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:47:00 - [23] - Quote Me and James are talking to CCP about probing and overlay. Your concerns are posted on internal CSM/CCP forums and CCP is aware of the issues. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
Euthanasia Anneto Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 9	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:52:00 - [24] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Svodola Darkfury wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect). is it actually in odyssey? because it's not at the moment you know, it's 64au. I was thinking 100% same thing. Normal on-board is up to 64AU, it's not a deep-space scanner obvious. I don't even get it whilst persons/corps are complaining about getting ganked during mining ops in a WH. Obvious they're doing things wrong.
Sushi Nardieu Bite Me inc Bitten. 126	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:39:00 - [25] - Quote 1) Require a probe to detect new signatures. Why should a ship not fit for scanning have ANY ability to find signatures? This is just as bad as the free tank mining barges get without fitting a single module. 2) Require you to press scan button. The Guns of Knowledge-á
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1385	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:55:00 - [26] - Quote Euthanasia Anneto wrote: Jack Miton wrote: Svodola Darkfury wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect). is it actually in odyssey? because it's not at the moment you know, it's 64au. I was thinking 100% same thing. Normal on-board is up to 64AU, it's not a deep-space scanner obvious. I don't even get it whilst persons/corps are complaining about getting ganked during mining ops in a WH. Obvious they're doing things wrong. Yes it is. I don't feel like going back through the threadnaught, but the devs in there had confirmed the discovery scanner is essentially infinite range, ie scans an entire system regardless of size.
TunaKross Bite Me inc Bitten. 40	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:59:00 - [27] - Quote Chitsa Jason wrote: Me and James are talking to CCP about probing and overlay. Your concerns are posted on internal CSM/CCP forums and CCP is aware of the issues. Chitsa im counting on you! No way in hell that farmers don't have to drop probes to check for incoming wormholes. You know as much as me, that little extra time where they don't notice the new sig can make or break if you catch them or not. Tuna
Gary Bell Hard Knocks Inc. 49	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:03:00 - [28] - Quote I know this will change alot of wormhole mechanics.. But imagine the glory in nullsec.. Jump in warp right to ice belt bubble and PEW PEW.. It will be glorious.. NULL tears shall create new rivers!
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost 36	Posted - 2013.05.27 12:05:00 - [29] - Quote Miners shouldn't complain, site runners already have the same thing with the normal sites now. In oddesy only the mags, radars, and gas sites need to be scanned. Maybe the thing to tweak is rather the time between scans when the autoscan runs. Since it doesn't require any effort it should be set to a longer time, unless you press the scan button manualy.
Vivian Marcos Strategic Tactics And Recon Academy Strategic Tactics And Recon Corporate Alliance 3	Posted - 2013.05.27 13:04:00 - [30] - Quote Euthanasia Anneto wrote: Jack Miton wrote: Svodola Darkfury wrote: Amanda Chelian wrote: Fair point, but won't the automatic signature detection still be limited by the scanner's 14 AU range? Most systems are considerably larger than that, which opens up the possibility of a wormhole opening up outside my mining ship's range. No. The range of the on-board scanner is infinite (256 au or so but for almost every system in the game, it's perfect). is it actually in odyssey? because it's not at the moment you know, it's 64au. I was thinking 100% same thing. Normal on-board is up to 64AU, it's not a deep-space scanner obvious. I don't even get it whilst persons/corps are complaining about getting ganked during mining ops in a WH. Obvious they're doing things wrong. normal on-board and scanner overlay are 2 different things, and it might have been a typo in that quote. The on board is 64au, the scanner overlay is going to be a built in deep space probe, with the range of it. My 2 cents is currently, if you get ganked while mining, you're an idiot, or have some really bad luck. With this new scanner overlay, only idiots or those with bad luck will still get caught in belts. No difference there :D. However (i havent set up the new sisi) i don't remember if the scanner overlay gives you a list of new sigs, if it only shows them in space then your gonna have to move that camera around :P.

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