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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 53 post(s)
Veyer Erastus Red-dormice 14	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:00:00 - [481] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: is it just me or did the cans get faster after the patch today? Confirming this. Cans fly and disappear much faster than it was two days ago, tested on the same spot. I can't even get half the cans now.
Zircon Dasher 198	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:06:00 - [482] - Quote Naren Vintas wrote: You really don't have to remove it from the game, just change the purpose of it. And Naren Vintas wrote: If they decide to remove the can pinata altogether and not make it as failure possibility, and failure should not give loot at all, as it does now, it is all fine by me. Are not equivalent statements as there is no logical reason to assume the latter from the former. I am glad you clarified your statement. I wonder if you were unclear about what you meant re: only getting some loot as being "punishment enough" as well. The only way "some" loot could be a punishment would be if you felt entitled to all the loot.....But that would be silly in relation to failure OR success. Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 199	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:10:00 - [483] - Quote Veyer Erastus wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: is it just me or did the cans get faster after the patch today? Confirming this. Cans fly and disappear much faster than it was two days ago, tested on the same spot. I can't even get half the cans now. I tried to sympathize with devs on the loot pinata and thought it was bearable after the slowing they got few days ago, but this is too much. I can't even start understanding why would you return all this pain and agony again. It probably has something to do with everyone talking about how they "can get 80% of the cans by themselves now" and also to do with how loot now maps to specific can types. I have to say that they definitely start disappearing a bit too quickly now; I barely have time to see what all the cans are before I have to start dealing with them disappearing.
Veyer Erastus Red-dormice 14	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:23:00 - [484] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: It probably has something to do with everyone talking about how they "can get 80% of the cans by themselves now" and also to do with how loot now maps to specific can types. I have to say that they definitely start disappearing a bit too quickly now; I barely have time to see what all the cans are before I have to start dealing with them disappearing. Loot was mapping to can types for a long time already. And i don't really see any issue with getting 80%. Come on, let's be frank. Going solo is one of the main incentives of exploration and 95% do it like this.
Tsubutai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 208	Posted - 2013.06.02 06:29:00 - [485] - Quote Ran a Ruined Sansha Monument Site in my tengu (120/40 coherence/strength). Hacked all cans successfully, although one required two attempts. The spew cans do seem to be moving a bit more quickly than they were previously; coupled with their faster rate of expiry, that meant that I was only able to get 40-50% of the cans emitted after successful hacking attempts. However, the mapping of loot to specific can types seems to be working - I cargo scanned the hacking containers before accessing them and only missed out on one valuable drop (a stack of 4 Intact Armor Plates). My total haul for the site was 94m worth of salvage and a 3-run True Sansha Large Pulse Laser battery blueprint, worth 60m if you dump the built batteries onto buy orders or 180m if you go by sell order prices. That gives a total loot value of 150-270m for the site, plus around 80m of Intact Armor Plates that I missed. Seems like a pretty good return for 15 minutes of clicking around. I then ran a Ruined Sansha Monument Site - hacked everything without issue but was surprised that I wasn't getting any loot. Only realised on the last can that my cargo was full and that was preventing me from scooping anything. It might be helpful to make the 'cargo full' notification more prominent or to have some kind of sound to alert people when they fail to loot a spew can because their cargo is full, especially given the volume of some of the components you get from the data sites. edit: it's still a little tricky to pick the spew cans you want immediately after you first hack a container because they're all right on top of one-another when they're first ejected. Cherry-picking becomes more viable after a few seconds once the spew cans have separated a bit, but it would be nice if they were more clearly distinguished from the get-go. edit 2: in crude ISK/hour terms, that monument site was worth between 600m isk/hr on the low end and 1.4b isk/hr on the high end. You really, really should not be able to get that kind of ISK in a cloaky, nullified, triple-stabbed ship with the align time of a frigate. If you are determined to keep the virus strength bonus on the Emergent Locus Analyzer subsystems, it would probably be sensible to put a corresponding -10 strength malus on the Interdiction Nullifier sub in order to maintain some semblance of risk:reward balance.
Tsubutai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 208	Posted - 2013.06.02 07:04:00 - [486] - Quote Regarding the balance of the hacking minigame, I think it's currently in a pretty good state for people who have everything maxed out - in an (effectively) all-V character flying a strength-bonused ship with T2 analyzers, I am able to easily smash through the highsec sites without any issue, almost never run into trouble with lowsec ones, and only occasionally require a second attempt in even the hardest nullsec sites as long as I don't do anything stupid. However, because the T2 analyzers are so much stronger than their T1 counterparts, anyone who doesn't have hacking/archaeology V is at a major disadvantage in nullsec sites and the tougher lowsec ones. In addition, hacking ships are currently very cheap to fit since there are no faction modules that are useful for hackers. I think that a nice way of addressing this would be to introduce faction analyzers (possibly from the SoE LP store?) with the same SP requirements as the T1 modules but with the same strength as the T2 variants and a little more coherence. That would allow less-skilled explorers to compete with max-skilled vets on a more level playing field at the cost of a bigger ISK investment, and also provide at least some incentive for the vets to go with slightly more expensive fits than are required at present.
Omnathious Deninard The Scope Gallente Federation 1108	Posted - 2013.06.02 07:40:00 - [487] - Quote Tsubutai wrote: edit 2: in crude ISK/hour terms, that monument site was worth between 600m isk/hr on the low end and 1.4b isk/hr on the high end. You really, really should not be able to get that kind of ISK in a cloaky, nullified, triple-stabbed ship with the align time of a frigate. You completely devote a ship to one role and then complain that it works well. I don't understand that logic. Tsubutai wrote: If you are determined to keep the virus strength bonus on the Emergent Locus Analyzer subsystems, it would probably be sensible to put a corresponding -10 strength malus on the Interdiction Nullifier sub in order to maintain some semblance of risk:reward balance. In that same light, a nullified T3 should have a penalty to there tank. With the ability to avoid bubbles it is redundant. All of these counter T3 arguments seem to be applying to Sov space, I have not heard one WH dweller complain about the virus strength bonus on the T3 ships. Ideas for Drone Improvement-á
Tsubutai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 208	Posted - 2013.06.02 07:57:00 - [488] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: You completely devote a ship to one role and then complain that it works well. I don't understand that logic. Specialized/focused ships should be good at what they do but not so crushingly good as to render all alternatives redundant or completely trivialize the content. Do you think it would be OK for a "completely devoted" machariel fit to be capable of soloing a DED 10/10 or high end wormhole anom in 10 minutes while also fitting multiple stabs, having a covops cloak, and being bubble-proof? Quote: In that same light, a nullified T3 should have a penalty to there tank. With the ability to avoid bubbles it is redundant. Nullfiers do hurt your tank/dps because they provide 1 low slot fewer than the other propulsion subs. In addition, fitting one of the cloaky subsystems dramatically reduces your DPS output relative to that achieved with the other offensive subs. That's a very important part of their balancing - the massive benefits provided by being cloaky and nullified come with significant balancing drawbacks that hurt the ship's performance in other respects. Consequently, cloaky nullified T3s are incapable of completing the high-end PvE content that is currently available on TQ; if you want to do nullsec DED sites or w-space anoms, you need to use ships that are exposed to much higher levels of risk. The same should apply to high-end hacking content.
Omnathious Deninard The Scope Gallente Federation 1108	Posted - 2013.06.02 08:18:00 - [489] - Quote Tsubutai wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: You completely devote a ship to one role and then complain that it works well. I don't understand that logic. Do you think it would be OK for a "completely devoted" machariel fit to be capable of soloing a DED 10/10 or high end wormhole anom in 10 minutes? Do you feel a assault frigate should be able to compete with that Machariel on the same level? Ideas for Drone Improvement-á
Johan Toralen Clockwork X3 81	Posted - 2013.06.02 12:05:00 - [490] - Quote Tsubutai wrote: edit 2: in crude ISK/hour terms, that monument site was worth between 600m isk/hr on the low end and 1.4b isk/hr on the high end. That's a strange way to look at isk/h. When i station trade and make a billion profit on some item does that mean my isk/h is around 60b? I would be really really surprised if i play for 4 hours on tuesday night and come back with 2-6 billion. Pretty unrealistic unless i luck into a pos bpc.

Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 220	Posted - 2013.06.03 11:42:00 - [491] - Quote Veyer Erastus wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: It probably has something to do with everyone talking about how they "can get 80% of the cans by themselves now" and also to do with how loot now maps to specific can types. I have to say that they definitely start disappearing a bit too quickly now; I barely have time to see what all the cans are before I have to start dealing with them disappearing. Loot was mapping to can types for a long time already. And i don't really see any issue with getting 80%. Come on, let's be frank. Going solo is one of the main incentives of exploration and 95% do it like this. I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying that CCP is trying to actively (and maybe it feels like "aggressively") promote people to explore in groups and when people say "I can get 80% of the loot by myself" that maybe seems like it will defeat what they're trying to accomplish.
Degin'eth Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2013.06.03 12:18:00 - [492] - Quote I tried submitting this bug through the in-game interface. Got an error: Data Site named "Digital Compund" is actually a combat site even though it shows as a Data Site in the scan window.

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 339	Posted - 2013.06.03 13:44:00 - [493] - Quote Degin'eth wrote: I tried submitting this bug through the in-game interface. Got an error: Data Site named "Digital Compund" is actually a combat site even though it shows as a Data Site in the scan window. Yup there is a small problem with the bug report site which is currently getting worked on. I'll let the relevant team know about this issue. Thanks, CCP RedDawn Team Prototyping Rocks

Johan Toralen Clockwork X3 81	Posted - 2013.06.03 13:53:00 - [494] - Quote Some people have bragged too much imo with what they got from the sites based on their anecdotal evidence. Would be sad if CCP thinks that's the norm. I've tested for two weeks and never lucked in a jackpot, only a handful acceptable drops. Overall not enough that i would consider doing this for a regular source of income. Low sec seemed ok for a short time then loot was nerved again from what i can tell. Have yet to find a nullsec site that yields me over 100m. I only got close to that 80% cans mark with 4 tractor II and insta lock fit which was a bit pointless to fit after the cans got slowed down and vanished quicker. Let's see how it actualy turns out on TQ. Sisi doesn't really provide an accurate perception with the low spawn rate of sites and lack of hostiles.
Omnathious Deninard The Scope Gallente Federation 1120	Posted - 2013.06.03 14:07:00 - [495] - Quote I have only ever been able to grab 66% of the cans, as such it spews out 12 cans and I get 8 on average, before I could get 8 and I can still get 8 now but it is much harder and I usually end up grabbing random cans in the end. Ideas for Drone Improvement-á
S Kills Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.03 14:53:00 - [496] - Quote i never got my reward and i did everything you said
Scuzzy Logic Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce 23	Posted - 2013.06.03 15:24:00 - [497] - Quote Regarding the new can speed: F*** you CCP. Just when I thought you listened, you had to go and backhand us. Someone's not getting my money come september.
Scuzzy Logic Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce 23	Posted - 2013.06.03 15:25:00 - [498] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Veyer Erastus wrote: Alvatore DiMarco wrote: It probably has something to do with everyone talking about how they "can get 80% of the cans by themselves now" and also to do with how loot now maps to specific can types. I have to say that they definitely start disappearing a bit too quickly now; I barely have time to see what all the cans are before I have to start dealing with them disappearing. Loot was mapping to can types for a long time already. And i don't really see any issue with getting 80%. Come on, let's be frank. Going solo is one of the main incentives of exploration and 95% do it like this. I'm not disagreeing. I'm saying that CCP is trying to actively (and maybe it feels like "aggressively") promote people to explore in groups and when people say "I can get 80% of the loot by myself" that maybe seems like it will defeat what they're trying to accomplish. Hello, my name is CCP and I think anything but blobbing should be nerfed.
Johan Toralen Clockwork X3 81	Posted - 2013.06.03 15:51:00 - [499] - Quote Scuzzy Logic wrote: Regarding the new can speed: F*** you CCP. Just when I thought you listened, you had to go and backhand us. Someone's not getting my money come september. CCP needs to get real. This mechanic is crap and nothing's gonna change that. People only started to find it bearable and be a bit more positive about it when they got most of the goodies they were looking for. But of course that defeated the whole purpose of the mechanic. So now we're back where most people get fed up with it again. I said it before, it's a bad design on a fundamental level and the symptoms show. It's all about the psychology. You can't induce positive feelings with something that will always make a player feel like he's is losing out on stuff.
Gris X Core Industry. Insidious Empire 13	Posted - 2013.06.03 16:51:00 - [500] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Tim Ryder, we'd like to try to make it work for everyone so if you could suggest some changes that might improve your ability to see these things well enough to interact with them we'll definitely try to improve things. I am color blind. Do not use colors like yellow and green together as different state. blue and either yellow/green is better. Thanks

Mocktar Olachenko 20	Posted - 2013.06.03 17:02:00 - [501] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: I just want to tackle a few of these points. Firstly I don't think a mechanic can be inherently bad if a portion of people like it and the trend we've seen so far on these threads is that as we make changes the feedback is becoming more positive. I think the mechanic in it's original form is annoying, unsatisfying and feels bad because it is inherently random. A few people like being slapped in the face. And slapping someone in the face with less force is indeed a more positive thing. But the bottom line is that you're slapping us in the face. I understand that's a tired metaphor but it illustrates what you're trying to tell us. I appreciate that you're both listening and responding to the feedback on this issue, which is the only dark spot in what looks like a great expansion. No matter how much you try to force it, both myself and many others will continue to explore solo. It's one of the few things in the game you can do by yourself, and it's very satisfying in its present state. I'm not completely against incorporating more cooperative features into it, but there has to be a better way than "hey man, tag along and MASH BUTTAN every few minutes." Please find some compromise that doesn't discourage our favored playstyle.

CCP RedDawn C C P C C P Alliance 339	Posted - 2013.06.03 17:06:00 - [502] - Quote Gris X wrote: CCP Bayesian wrote: Tim Ryder, we'd like to try to make it work for everyone so if you could suggest some changes that might improve your ability to see these things well enough to interact with them we'll definitely try to improve things. I am color blind. Do not use colors like yellow and green together as different state. blue and either yellow/green is better. Thanks Hi Gris X, This is part of the feedback we have already received and we are working on making these icons more distinctive, both in shape and colour for an update soon after Odyssey. Hopefully this will alleviate any issues that you have been encountering. Thanks, CCP RedDawn Team Prototyping Rocks

Whim Aqayn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.03 18:53:00 - [503] - Quote The loot explosion is nothing short of tedious.
Johan Toralen Clockwork X3 81	Posted - 2013.06.03 19:09:00 - [504] - Quote After trying the newest iteration i would agree with who said the containers disappear too quickly. This is annoying because i still find myself wasting precious time in the beginning when the containers are close together, fighting with the interface and camera, trying to get a good look at the can names. PLEASE, put the cans in the overview. This is still so tedious and clunky. You said you want to make this work in the 3d space. Let me tell you there is no sense of where the cans are in the 3d space because the brackets are all the same size no matter the distance and position in the room. Only via wild camera acrobatics i get a sense of their positioning and then be able to check the names and choose.
S'No Flake Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 21	Posted - 2013.06.03 19:17:00 - [505] - Quote Scuzzy Logic wrote: Regarding the new can speed: F*** you CCP. Just when I thought you listened, you had to go and backhand us. Someone's not getting my money come september. Can i have your stuff
Rob Crowley State War Academy 65	Posted - 2013.06.03 19:54:00 - [506] - Quote Odyssey patch notes wrote: The Echelon now has +10 bonus to your Data and Relic Analyzer Strength I find this slightly confusing. The Echelon can't use any Relic Analyzers and since the only Data Analyzer it can use is the Sansha Purloined Data Analyzer (which can't be fitted to any other ship) why would you give a ship bonus to the Echelon instead of just altering the stats of the Sansha Analyzer?
LiKuei Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.06.03 20:02:00 - [507] - Quote With the number of additional things added to the exploration sub-career, the only addition that I would like to see dropped is the explosion of containers. I would say exploration is a sub-career in highsec and as such, many are not going to call in help to catch containers in the HOPES that the drops are worth it. Make gaining entry to the containers a little more difficult so that there is reason to skill higher levels and drop the explosion all together. REASON: If you can find it, access it and then roll on the loot table, all successfully, it justifies the changes ... adding the catch-a-container may deter people from actually going through additional steps.
Midnight Hope Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 114	Posted - 2013.06.03 20:10:00 - [508] - Quote CCP Bayesian wrote: Something we've discussed just this week is making the text box that currently displays things like "Orbiting" show what you're pulling in and allowing you to cancel and reselect another can. This is much nicer because it lets you take the risk of not getting anything in order to have more control over finding what you want. Our work to make the contents of the cans reflect the name, which should have been done much earlier, also helps a lot with the frustration of being interested in something in particular but entering into a pot luck to get it. Particularly if you've scanned the contents of the site object to find out what is in it. We need to make this visualisation much better than mouse over text. ^ +1
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 224	Posted - 2013.06.03 20:21:00 - [509] - Quote Being probably the most open-minded person on the Test Server forums in regards to the loot explosion and CCP generally trying new things as a whole.. ...I don't know what exactly you did to the loot explosion, but it's fairly terrible. I haven't been able to try it within the last 24h, but it was hard to get even half the cans. I don't know how people are managing to get more stuff by using regular tractors, since I tried it myself and end up actually getting less.
Omnathious Deninard The Scope Gallente Federation 1124	Posted - 2013.06.03 20:34:00 - [510] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Being probably the most open-minded person on the Test Server forums in regards to the loot explosion and CCP generally trying new things as a whole.. ...I don't know what exactly you did to the loot explosion, but it's fairly terrible. I haven't been able to try it within the last 24h, but it was hard to get even half the cans. I don't know how people are managing to get more stuff by using regular tractors, since I tried it myself and end up actually getting less. I have to say myself, that 2 patched ago the loot spew was manageable but now it is pretty bad again. I can handle the speed of the cans if they would hang around for a little longer. I could handle the rapid dissipation of the cans if they did not travel so fast. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious



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