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Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
230
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
This is a simple risk/reward issue. Rewards for running an OGB's is too big in comparison to the risk the OGB runners take, especially in the low-sec FW enviroment.
Smart players have figured this out and are using it to their benefit. However, the best counter to an OGB is get an OGB yourself, which means that the trend is viral and self-reinforcing, which is *bad* for a game. Same problem existed with the nano-age, where you couldn't compete unless you nanoed too.
Bringing the booster on grid is one possibility of introducing more risk. Until then, people will use OGB's, even those who don't like them will need to use OGB's simply because it is the most efficient way to keep competing. |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1245
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:chatgris wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Those are going to be the most delicious tears Eve has ever seen. I can't wait for the, "OMG WILL U REIMBURSE MY SKILLSPOINTS?" threads.  This. I am so looking forward to this. All the pro pvpers crying... Is going to be a sight.
That will be pebbles coming down a hill compared to the avalanche of a future supercap rebalance thread tbh. |

Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1449
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:2. No i don't care about fair, i'm in Dread Cartel for fucks sake. A ship providing a 50% boost without requiring to be piloted; with absolutely minimal risk (Or no risk at all if its posed up) is terrible, terrible gameplay.
You mean Coward Cartel?  Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
944
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Posted - 2013.05.28 21:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:2. No i don't care about fair, i'm in Dread Cartel for fucks sake. A ship providing a 50% boost without requiring to be piloted; with absolutely minimal risk (Or no risk at all if its posed up) is terrible, terrible gameplay.
You mean Coward Cartel? 
Hmm.. how did this go.. kettle.. black.. something..
 BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
600
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:59:00 -
[65] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:The devs put out a blog on changes to the strength imbalances between of tech IIIs and command ships. Until their grand plan of removing the off-grid booster is complete surely they could just implement the proposed nerf to the power of Tech III command links.
It's very simple, and will partially fix the problem, tamp down the complaints, and maybe make command ships relevant again until the grand fix. All it would take is a simple change in one value in the database.
Not really, these guys will always be complaining about something.
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Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron Caldari State Capturing
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
I have a complaint.
....erm....
somewhere in here.......two secs.....
Damn!
Why can't I find my complaint CCP Fix this **** please!!!! That is the Way, the Tao. Balance is everything.
We are recruiting CrAzY Pilots https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235985&find=unread |

Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1450
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Xolve wrote:You mean Coward Cartel?  Hmm.. how did this go.. kettle.. black.. something.. 
Hey man, you can spin whatever narrative you want if it makes you feel better about being a scrub, sweetheart. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Xolve wrote: Coward Cartel? it seems that someone has achieved this, for what he had paid additional $ 15
IMHO sad but true. |

Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 05:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
You can always go to the Orgrimmar system and duel if you don't want to solo roam out of high sec. |

Feffri
Dark Circle Enforcement Imperial Outlaws.
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 05:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
I don't understand why they don't just make it so they can't be activated in a pos and make it so t3's are as easy to scan down as any other cruiser. With the new scan mechanics and scan strength modules, and if ogb's were not allowed in pos's and if they were as easy to scan down as a cruiser. I feel there would be significant risk to losing ogb.s If anything bringing a cheap scanning alt would take the advantage away by just dropping some combat probes. having it so you need perfect scan skills and 3bil in virtue implants to scan it down is what makes it not risky. Just get rid of the whole nearly unscanable thing and pos thing.. |
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mindimoo
Black Watch Guard Amarr 7th Fleet
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 11:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Speaking as a OGB myself I would love to have them nerfed, mostly because I am also a maxed skilled Falcon and flying one can be about the funniest thing in Eve. |

Major Trant
The Flowing Penguins Iron Oxide.
179
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Nobody seems to have thought about the most serious problem concerning the removal of OGBs... What excuse will you use when you can no longer blame your loss on an OGB?
I use OGBs where I can, which is about 1/3rd of the times that I'm accused of using them.
Snakes? Nerf Snakes. Nerf all implants. In fact do away with them completely...
Guns? Make it so that any pilot with more than 50M SP can only fit one gun. And if you're really pro you will fit a civilian gun.
OGB is an option. Gief moer options! Then L2P |

Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
237
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Major Trant wrote: OGB is an option. Gief moer options! Then L2P
The problem is not that OGBs are an option, the problem is that they are *the* option.
As I pointed out before, all options need comparable risk/reward ratio's to be viable options and they need to have a non-viral component (proliferance of A is best countered by B, and not also doing A)
OGBs are too easy and cheap for their benefit and best countered by getting one of your own: poor game design.
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sten mattson
1st Praetorian Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.05.31 13:34:00 -
[74] - Quote
tbh with the new scanning changes , OGB will be a lot easier to scan down unless they are in a POS IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!! |

James 420
EVE Corporation 98188875
12
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Posted - 2013.06.01 06:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kirkwood Ross wrote:You can always go to the Orgrimmar system and duel if you don't want to solo roam out of high sec. Yup eve is too hardcore for balance, duuuuuuuuude you can scam people and lie; IN A VIDEOGAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't agree with me you should go back to world of warcraft (a casual game booooooooooooooooooooo, can you even lie in your casual themepark game?) am i right guys? Proud enforcer of 420 BLAZE IT |

Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
82
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 08:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
lvl 1 ibis lvl 10 - drake lvl 30 - tengu lvl 50 - dampener hookbill lvl 60 - 100MN tengu under 1 OGB lvl 70 - damp hookbill under 2 OGB lvl 80 - 100MN tengu under 3 OGB and scout in adjacent system.

WoW in eve: 1 buffer - Ship w remote tracklink/sebo 2 aura - OGB 3 mana - capacitor 4 spells - active modules 5 dungeon - lvl 4 mission 6 mob farming field - anomaly 7 debuff - E-war 8 buff - remote links 9 mob - npc 10 exp - skillpoints 11 siege golem - dreadnought 12 siege SUPER golem - titan 13 standard account - PLEX paid 14 premium account - RM paid 15 premium ingame money (dont know how it called in WoW) - AUR 16 rings/amulets - implants 17 long time farmed item (unique probably) - deadspace item 18 boss - officer 19 duel - duel 20 farmer - carebear 21 invis - cloacking device
nooooooo- we are scummed |

LaserzPewPew
Origin. Black Legion.
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 19:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
There is no fair fight in eve. The only fair fight is the one you lose. |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1252
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 21:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
I had a few hours before I had to go to work today. Rather then log into Eve I found myself blowing the dust off of Dragon Age (first one). Had I logged into Eve I know pretty much what to expect:
Auga - Minmatar has at least two boosters set up. Kourm/Huola - Multiple OGB as well as various gate camps. I haven't gone here outside of a gang in months to be perfectly honest. Taff - Dual OGB. Siseide - Missy will be baiting people while having a cloaked logi in the plex with her. OGB of course. Amamake - Multiple OGB between pirates and PL Gulm - Pirates with OGB.
So I could find out which system Imperial Outlaws is currently harvesting with our own OGB. (yawn). Or I can roam looking for those few without boosts. I recall having the same empty roams in Null. The excitement of low sec is quick action. But if you need to have a booster in tow - it no longer is quick. People sit in their respective 'castles' and harvest noob kills while taking very few chances of their own. OGB makes cowards of everyone. It's as simple as that. |

Major Killz
200
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 22:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I had a few hours before I had to go to work today. Rather then log into Eve I found myself blowing the dust off of Dragon Age (first one). Had I logged into Eve I know pretty much what to expect:
Auga - Minmatar has at least two boosters set up. Kourm/Huola - Multiple OGB as well as various gate camps. I haven't gone here outside of a gang in months to be perfectly honest. Taff - Dual OGB. Siseide - Missy will be baiting people while having a cloaked logi in the plex with her. OGB of course. Amamake - Multiple OGB between pirates and PL Gulm - Pirates with OGB.
So I could find out which system Imperial Outlaws is currently harvesting with our own OGB. (yawn). Or I can roam looking for those few without boosts. I recall having the same empty roams in Null. The excitement of low sec is quick action. But if you need to have a booster in tow - it no longer is quick. People sit in their respective 'castles' and harvest noob kills while taking very few chances of their own. OGB makes cowards of everyone. It's as simple as that.
Congrats! That was a depressing read. |

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
602
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 23:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I had a few hours before I had to go to work today. Rather then log into Eve I found myself blowing the dust off of Dragon Age (first one). Had I logged into Eve I know pretty much what to expect:
Auga - Minmatar has at least two boosters set up. Kourm/Huola - Multiple OGB as well as various gate camps. I haven't gone here outside of a gang in months to be perfectly honest. Taff - Dual OGB. Siseide - Missy will be baiting people while having a cloaked logi in the plex with her. OGB of course. Amamake - Multiple OGB between pirates and PL Gulm - Pirates with OGB.
So I could find out which system Imperial Outlaws is currently harvesting with our own OGB. (yawn). Or I can roam looking for those few without boosts. I recall having the same empty roams in Null. The excitement of low sec is quick action. But if you need to have a booster in tow - it no longer is quick. People sit in their respective 'castles' and harvest noob kills while taking very few chances of their own. OGB makes cowards of everyone. It's as simple as that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nL48gIeKic Cowardly?
It takes a bit of effort to have a viable mobile booster. Too much effort for many it would seem. However, i find my booster can just about keep up with my nano frigate. The time it takes me to warp to a plex and enter is usually enough time to reach a safe or reapproach gate.
The whole argument about boosters slowing down gameplay makes no sense to me. Sure my booster isnt always the safest but it enables some great fights. A lot of the time people convo me after, most are not bitter about the booster, just surprised i engaged and shocked at the outcome.
Though i think im on my 38th maulus, so boosts dont make you invicible. |
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Damsel in Distress
FATAL Warfare
63
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 00:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
My corp hasn't seen me log in in months due to OGB. Someone wake me up when they're gone. |

Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 07:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
"By letting be buy a reward I can always benefit from and never have to risk losing, I can finally compete against those people better at the game than me! I think it's great they removed risk vs reward... it's been the best thing to happen to my guild"
I can't wait to see what "mechanic" / "gameplay" is introduced when CCP decides it needs everyone to have three accounts per player.
And it will happen, or something along those lines, it's just a matter of time.
Why do you think we threw such a **** storm when they tried their "brave" aurum gold ammo crap? Because once they start milking you for cash to compete beyond your initial subscription.. it's all down pay-to-win hill from there.
Once OGB really took off, most of us expected they'd fix it. Now they say "oh, well actually we need to recode half the game to fix this because of techtalk".... I'm sure they'll get right on that. You won't just get another excuse 2 years from now followed with "oops, oh well, sorry, guess that mandatory 2nd account stuff is here to stay... did I mention we have another POWER OF TWO sale this week??? Please click my apology to be linked to the 'give us money' window.
Players that want to pay to win will, the players that don't won't compete and will leave. And the company won't care because they'll still be making money.
But how?!?! Because while they lose some players not willing to shell out the cash, the ones willing to pay to win will (usually) pay enough to cover 3 or more of the previous frugal customers. At least this is what microtransaction research would indicate.
So in the end the company will make more money. However the game/gameplay ultimately pays the price as what players will get in the end is a sandbox replaced with a cat litter box.
"No seriously guys, everyone has a third account for system cobobulationsings. Quit being a scrub. I have 6 accounts so I can get the full bonus, most my friends do. It doesn't need changed, you're just too poor to compete with the serious players. Working as intended."
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Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
240
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 08:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:week??? Please click my apology to be linked to the 'give us money' window.[/i]
Players that want to pay to win will, the players that don't won't compete and will leave. And the company won't care because they'll still be making money.
But how?!?! Because while they lose some players not willing to shell out the cash, the ones willing to pay to win will (usually) pay enough to cover 3 or more of the previous frugal customers. At least this is what microtransaction research would indicate.
Well, if that is true, it is still stupid of CCP to let OGB's stay at this risk/reward level. Why, you ask?
Before players had to pay for a Snake set, a Halo set and faction tackle mods achieve the same effect, and they would lose these more often, thus costing more and requiring more plex than the 1/month.
This is besides the scouting/Falcon alt these players were already paying for. Now they simply have an OGB on that character slot.
A lot of players that were still doubting to get a second account, can now benefit from their OGB alt that sits in a POS in-system and don't need to get their won, again reducing CCP proft.
In short, even if what you say is true (which I think it isn't) *it still doesn't make good business sense for CCP to allow OGB's at their current risk/reward level*
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 09:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:
Well, if that is true, it is still stupid of CCP to let OGB's stay at this risk/reward level. Why, you ask?
Before players had to pay for a Snake set, a Halo set and faction tackle mods achieve the same effect, and they would lose these more often, thus costing more and requiring more plex than the 1/month.
This is besides the scouting/Falcon alt these players were already paying for. Now they simply have an OGB on that character slot.
A lot of players that were still doubting to get a second account, can now benefit from their OGB alt that sits in a POS in-system and don't need to get their won, again reducing CCP proft.
In short, even if what you say is true (which I think it isn't) *it still doesn't make good business sense for CCP to allow OGB's at their current risk/reward level*
Well it only makes business sense if the numbers work. If more people are willing to buy 2nd accounts than people that leave over OGB, it will. If not, it won't.
As everyone has already become accustomed to the power of two being ok for matters of convenience and alternate game-play options, it's become easier to accept second accounts that establish a pay-to-win scenario.
As people are starting to see them prevalent to the point solo players are using them just like falcon alts (but without the vulnerability of needing to warp into the situation where the advantage is being applied.) They've figured out the ruse. But since they were eased into it I doubt you'll see the sharp reaction and mass unsubs like you might with something as blatent as GOLD +150 AMMO
Only time will tell which survives, but do remember that what is best for the game mechanics has nothing to do with popularity or profit forecasts. Just because OGB is terrible for the game doesn't mean it's going anywhere.
In fact, it a logical conclusion that the problem may very well get worse should the company feel it's enough of a success that it warrants upping the ante again.
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Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
242
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 10:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:[quote=Merdaneth] As people are starting to see them prevalent to the point solo players are using them just like falcon alts (but without the vulnerability of needing to warp into the situation where the advantage is being applied.) They've figured out the ruse. But since they were eased into it I doubt you'll see the sharp reaction and mass unsubs like you might with something as blatent as GOLD +150 AMMO
Any equivalent of gold ammo makes more business sense though, since ammo actually gets expended. OGB's do not (or at least rarely). It is bad both from a gameplay perspective and as a business model.
But, I doubt CCP intended OGBs to drive a second-account business model. And if they did, they would make OGBs only boost one other ship. That would make more sense.
OGBs are simply a game-design oops.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 10:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote: Any equivalent of gold ammo makes more business sense though, since ammo actually gets expended. OGB's do not (or at least rarely). It is bad both from a gameplay perspective and as a business model.
But, I doubt CCP intended OGBs to drive a second-account business model. And if they did, they would make OGBs only boost one other ship. That would make more sense.
OGBs are simply a game-design oops.
No one says unintended consequences can't be capitalized on.
I'm sure once CCP realized OGB were driving second account purchases beyond expectations, no one stood up in the room and said "we gotta stop this, we're making more money on accident!" |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
969
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 11:33:00 -
[87] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Merdaneth wrote: Any equivalent of gold ammo makes more business sense though, since ammo actually gets expended. OGB's do not (or at least rarely). It is bad both from a gameplay perspective and as a business model.
But, I doubt CCP intended OGBs to drive a second-account business model. And if they did, they would make OGBs only boost one other ship. That would make more sense.
OGBs are simply a game-design oops.
No one says unintended consequences can't be capitalized on. I'm sure once CCP realized OGB were driving second account purchases beyond expectations, no one stood up in the room and said "we gotta stop this, we're making more money on accident!"
They aren't really
****** gameplay stunts the growth of the game. They would make more money in the long run with improving the gameplay. BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 11:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: ****** gameplay stunts the growth of the game. They would make more money in the long run with improving the gameplay.
I agree. The question is, will they?
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
970
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 12:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: ****** gameplay stunts the growth of the game. They would make more money in the long run with improving the gameplay.
I agree. The question is, will they?
Yes because otherwise i will start hanging on Fozzies leg during fanfest/player meets BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 12:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: ****** gameplay stunts the growth of the game. They would make more money in the long run with improving the gameplay.
I agree. The question is, will they? Yes because otherwise i will start hanging on Fozzies leg during fanfest/player meets
Bite it. Like a dog.
Human mouths are disgusting. Perhaps a leg infection will show them we mean business.  |
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