nah you still don't know what's in system, just that something came in. maybe it left, maybe it logged out at a safe. wh will still be good hunting grounds for the patient.
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You would have to do something to make the new one pop up or have the scanner running constantly. That's right...right? If so then it's no different than having a DSP probe out but now you can't tell for sure what the new sig is with one scan.

That is an assumption. I'm asking for a statement from CCP that this is their intent. If their intent was to prevent explorers filtering based on signal strength, they could tell us that and we can come up with other ideas that don't involve taking away the 256AU range probes.

you won't be able to tell what it is but you'll know something just spawned and you should check it out before commencing. a very powerful intel tool.

+1

There is an overzealousnouss at work here to make things more accessible, ruining the finer art of probing in the process.
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Again, I am no expert but maybe they also don't want player to have access to a 256AU range probe. Maybe they think large system should be large so you can't single scan them.

I want to murder you for continuing to portray the silly mantra of OMG CLOAKY HUNTING PVP. Seriously, people like you are depressing and make wspace sound stupid.

Nope. That's not how it works at all.

Before a K162 can exist, the cosmic signature of the wormhole existed as something else. As an example, you might have a wormhole type M555 which goes from hisec to Class 5 wormholes, and the other end appears in Class 5 wormholes as N110 (I don't know for certain, this is just an example).

If the w-space side is probed down first, what you end up with is a Wormhole (N110) on the w-space side and Wormhole (K162) on the k-space side.

If the k-space side is probed down first, what you end up with is a Wormhole(K162) on the w-space side and a Wormhole (M555) on the w-space side.

Thus nothing will change on the system scanner overview, while only the signal strength will change on the 1 x DSP @ 256AU scan results.

This is not the least bit ambiguous. Stop being obtuse.

They're nerfing DSPs ON PURPOSE.

Where does this madness end?

A few minutes with explorers who actually do exploring might have garnered some better ideas.

Instead we're stuck with, "yeah, so we broke something you use. Here's a workaround which doesn't really replace the functionality you lost," and CCP looking like they're clowns wandering around the china shop in oversized shoes.

Not ambiguous now that the devblog has come out and CCP SoniClover has explained that they had a reason for taking DSPs out. Until then, CCP Greyscale was only admitting that removing DSPs impacts the exploration gameplay and offering a workaround.

Now the concern is that other types of gameplay will be removed from exploration because skilled scanners are too good at finding ships in space compared to the unskilled ones who probe every ship from 4AU constellations one range increment at a time. The criteria offered by CCPs SoniClover and Greyscale is that when skilled players get too good at doing something compared to unskilled players, they have to nerf the game to make things harder for the skilled players and easier for the unskilled players.

So is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled PvPer can narrow someone down to a small region of space using nothing else but D-scan, then plonk a 0.5AU constellation of combat probes on that location?

Is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled trader can roll 500M ISK over and over in a series of 1% profit trades through the course of a day to make 100% gain in one day?

is it a "soft exploit" that a skilled pilot can run level 4 missions in an assault ship?

Is it a "soft exploit" that some L4 missions can be completed in a shuttle?

Where does this madness end?

Did it hurt you to type that?

I'm curious, because you laid it out so easily, so simply. There's no room for doubt, questioning, or misinterpretation in what you said. Yet CCP can't seem to put those same few words together in the same concise, unambiguous and unquestionable manner.

Nope. That's not how it works at all.

Before a K162 can exist, the cosmic signature of the wormhole existed as something else. As an example, you might have a wormhole type M555 which goes from hisec to Class 5 wormholes, and the other end appears in Class 5 wormholes as N110 (I don't know for certain, this is just an example).

If the w-space side is probed down first, what you end up with is a Wormhole (N110) on the w-space side and Wormhole (K162) on the k-space side.

If the k-space side is probed down first, what you end up with is a Wormhole(K162) on the w-space side and a Wormhole (M555) on the w-space side.

Thus nothing will change on the system scanner overview, while only the signal strength will change on the 1 x DSP @ 256AU scan results.

As per the quote in the linked post, we've been very clear that this is not being left out by accident, it's a conscious decision towards a specific end, made with knowledge about how the system is currently being used on TQ, and based on the assessment that the net impact of Odyssey on probing mechanics is reasonably balanced.

If players want to discuss that assessment, the specific consequences of the changes we're making (backed, ideally, by actually testing the system rather than just speculating about how it might work), and the impact that is likely to have on overall gameplay balance, we're all ears.

Again, stop being obtuse. I used DSPs, too, but it was always EXTREMELY obvious that lookup tables were an unfortunate and unintended consequence of probing math, and not an intended function.

The given reason for removing DSPs is simply that they allow finding ships in space too quickly, not because they represent a "soft exploit". So obviously the next cabs off the rank will be embedded tetrahedrons, constellations with probes of differing signal strength, and launching a 0.5AU constellation into an area that you haven't probed in the last five minutes.

As per the quote in the linked post, we've been very clear that this is not being left out by accident, it's a conscious decision towards a specific end, made with knowledge about how the system is currently being used on TQ, and based on the assessment that the net impact of Odyssey on probing mechanics is reasonably balanced.

If players want to discuss that assessment, the specific consequences of the changes we're making (backed, ideally, by actually testing the system rather than just speculating about how it might work), and the impact that is likely to have on overall gameplay balance, we're all ears.

ITT people rag on the OP because they don't explore or live in Wspace.

Next month there will be buckets of (their) tears when their economy changes and they realize they really do live in a sandbox.

This change is terrible. They did all that work to make scanning easier (take less of my precious time), and then add a stealth nerf to make it take more time.

Giving players no options to find this information represents a pretty significant nerf to scanning. I'm at a loss for words just how terrible this change is.

There are some critical errors about WH spawning mechanics in this statement. A K162 doesn't exist at all in any form until someone initiates warp to the other side, in other words they can only be scanned and spawned from the origin side. If a K162 appears someone from the other end created it.

As per the quote in the linked post, we've been very clear that this is not being left out by accident, it's a conscious decision towards a specific end, made with knowledge about how the system is currently being used on TQ, and based on the assessment that the net impact of Odyssey on probing mechanics is reasonably balanced.