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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.29 22:26:00 -
[31]
just saying, if he is not lying (ie. he has the ship fitted that way), the numbers you are using in the math must be wrong or you are failing to take something into account.
not saying he is correct tho, just saying IF he is.
--
This Zig. For great justice! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.29 22:28:00 -
[32]
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/10/2005 22:30:07
"minmatar pilot just understand that:
- pilot skills + fitting skills > max dps + theoretical perfection
- cookie cutter setup are stupid
because of these two thing, our marginal dps and marginal tanking ability are overcome by our ability to 'do more damage faster' to a 'superior' ship by not relying on cookie cutter setup (that everyone counters) and f1-fx (click) and wait tactics... (wtfdidntwinsploit!!!)  "
oh, please ^^
plate claws, gank tempests, auto vagabonds...
nope, no cookie cutter setups for Minmatars, at all; every single Minnie ship out there is 100% unique snowflake, and unlike anything you'd see fitted on ship of another race <g>
(as for Minmatars not whining... heh; next thing i'll hear, they were taking it all in stride before the projectile semi-fix, too... ;s
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Kcel Chim
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Posted - 2005.10.29 22:32:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: HippoKing
just saying, if he is not lying (ie. he has the ship fitted that way), the numbers you are using in the math must be wrong or you are failing to take something into account.
not saying he is correct tho, just saying IF he is.
sorry the numbers are correct as ive the skills trained up, the ship fitted and it active. Plus the numbers work exactly like they should work "on paper" from the eve db.
As i said if he has it fitted the way he has only a bug can be the explination. One so far none of the tempest pilots ive met was able to reproduce.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.29 22:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Originally by: HippoKing
just saying, if he is not lying (ie. he has the ship fitted that way), the numbers you are using in the math must be wrong or you are failing to take something into account.
not saying he is correct tho, just saying IF he is.
sorry the numbers are correct as ive the skills trained up, the ship fitted and it active. Plus the numbers work exactly like they should work "on paper" from the eve db.
As i said if he has it fitted the way he has only a bug can be the explination. One so far none of the tempest pilots ive met was able to reproduce.
then i'll side with you here. would still be nice to hear from the other guy again tho
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This Zig. For great justice! |
Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.10.29 23:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: HippoKing
how many minmatar whines have you seen?
Many, sooo many.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:10:00 -
[36]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/10/2005 22:30:07
"minmatar pilot just understand that:
- pilot skills + fitting skills > max dps + theoretical perfection
- cookie cutter setup are stupid
because of these two thing, our marginal dps and marginal tanking ability are overcome by our ability to 'do more damage faster' to a 'superior' ship by not relying on cookie cutter setup (that everyone counters) and f1-fx (click) and wait tactics... (wtfdidntwinsploit!!!) "
oh, please ^^
plate claws, gank tempests, auto vagabonds...
nope, no cookie cutter setups for Minmatars, at all; every single Minnie ship out there is 100% unique snowflake, and unlike anything you'd see fitted on ship of another race <g>
(as for Minmatars not whining... heh; next thing i'll hear, they were taking it all in stride before the projectile semi-fix, too... ;s
hey jo... what with the troll...? 
weirda have always respect you thoughts... having a bad day?
pretty sure you knew what weirda meant... but will spell it out:
every gankageddon is a gankageddon
every gankaraven is a gankaraven
every blasterthon is a blasterthon
every gankatempest is... different
could go on, but the point should be pretty clear. 
as for the unique snowflake? 
well that is the pilot - we are forced to specialize in so many goddamned area that you never know what you gonna get! 
--
Thread Killer
(attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Weirda
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:11:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Redwolf
Originally by: HippoKing
how many minmatar whines have you seen?
Many, sooo many.
please, tell me of them - amarr scum...
shouldn't expect any different propaganda from the CVA...
--
Thread Killer
(attempt to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1 -- failed)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
mrg29
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:20:00 -
[38]
i've got adv weap upgrades at 4 and cant fit 6 tech2 1400s without using one pdu2 for the extra pg.
its not possible to fit 6 tech2 1400s on a temp without either adv weaps at 5 or some form of pg mod.
the rest of my setup sounds the same as well.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.30 01:56:00 -
[39]
"hey jo... what with the troll...?
weirda have always respect you thoughts... having a bad day?"
Sorry :< guess the whole "seeee we Minmatar are speshial, and you dumb Caldari should just think out of the box like we Minmatar are naturally gifted to, and then all your problems would disappear... except you won't because you're dumb and we're sooo cool, haha" undertone... kinda rubbed me the wrong way :/
thing is... no amount of out-of-the box thinking helped the Minmatar when their projectile damage was inferior to everyone else, and one pretty much couldn't start a thread on any topic without at least couple of them showing up with "you think you have it bad... just look at our damage!" cry. It took a dev with ruler to (mostly) put a stop to it, through tweaking the modules. And there's still areas where no amount of Minmatar out-of-the-box tinkering can apparently stop the river of tears on say, how badly thought up Tempest is and how it'd be best if completely reworked. And i suspect it'll take a dev again, to finally 'fix' these areas, too.
... so hope you can see how with this kind of things in the background, hearing how the cool Minmatar are just smart like that because they don't cry but find workarounds, and how Caldari are dumb and stuff because they won't do the same... triggered the "say _what_?" sort of reaction...
not like this thread isn't silly from the get-go with that kind of pigeon-holing, and i should've probably stayed away from it in the first place... sorry again. just really irked me ..;;
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Soul Queen
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Posted - 2005.10.30 03:44:00 -
[40]
I dont have some big long clever explination as to why i fly matari, and love it.
I just do.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.10.30 18:59:00 -
[41]
I am sorry for misleading people, I am using T1 1400mms, not T2. 6xT1 1400m + full gank fits.
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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Baun
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Posted - 2005.10.30 19:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Meridius
- Mediocre DPS (countered by either EW potential or speed)
and by the highest per volley damage.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.10.30 19:54:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Meridius
- Mediocre DPS (countered by either EW potential or speed)
and by the highest per volley damage.
Yeah, very good for instapopping non-plated Cruisers... hm, that's about it... if you're interested you can calculate by then a Geddon with 6 Tachyon lasers will outdamage a 1400mm Tempest. 1 Volley or even 2?
I never heard of high volley damage of Autocannons either. CCP should realy listen to the people here, they want our ships to be boosted.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.10.30 20:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bruchpilot
Geddon with 6 Tachyon lasers will outdamage a 1400mm Tempest.
Those 6 tachs eat up 50% more cap then a Large Armor Repairer. Yeah, you won't be firing those tachs very long.
53.34 cap drained per second.
Geddons are also limited to 3 mids for tracking/range/sensor resolution boosting.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.10.30 20:41:00 -
[45]
Minnies have EMP ammo. This ammo is feared universally. Makes me tremble in my boots.
Minnies get Vagabonds. These things have caused more skid marks in the underwear of victims than any other ship in eve.
I think Minmatar are freakin' awesome.
Bad times for them? I highly doubt it.
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Arti K
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Posted - 2005.10.30 21:38:00 -
[46]
As a minmatar specialist with 30m sp (danneh stop alluding to me dammit), I can tell you that 6 1400mm II's and 6 gyrostab II's will only fit with advanced weapon upgrades 5. At range the tempest's greatest advantage is not the burst damage, but the damage types themselves. They're more or less built to rip through armor, although proton is nice for hitting shields as well. At short range if you want to gank and tank you have to sacrifice any tackling equipment to shield tank, armor tanking takes up slots for gyrostabs, but if you outclass your opponent it's a viable option.
As it is right now I do not have any major problems with the minmatar ships, but it is the tanking patch that I fear will eliminate the validity of the tempest as a force on the battlefield. All ships gain 25% more of all HPs -- this reduces the effects of the tempest's burst dmg, and prolongs fights very much. Longer fights means more cap use, which heavily favors armor tanking over shield tanking. The minmatar ships don't have much cap to run tanks, so long fights are the worst possible kind.
That's why I'm hoping the test server continues to crash and be completely unusable, because each day they fail to bring it back up for testing, is another day I can enjoy my tempest rather than curse its name.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.30 21:58:00 -
[47]
The 25% boost seems to have, fortunately, fallen by the wayside..
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.10.30 22:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The 25% boost seems to have, fortunately, fallen by the wayside..
wahooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
/emote kisses his 1400mm howies
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.10.30 23:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 28/10/2005 23:15:19
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Originally by: Sarmaul
o We have one of the few ships that (with skills) can fit a full rack of it's best guns (1400mm IIs) and a full rack of gyrostabs without any powercore or cpu upgrades, and still have room for sensor boosters, tracking computers and all manner of EW gizmos
what skills are you talking about? I have adv. weapon upgrades lvl4 and I cant fit that.
Jesus have you actually trained any engineering skills?
As for the gun range, I meant to add when including falloff (added to the original post).
you can only fit 6 1400 IIs 6 damage mods with advanced weapon upgrades 5, and fitting 6 damage mods will suck after the patch.
I have advanced weapon upgrades 3 and engineering 5 and can (and do) fit 6 1400mm IIs, 6 gyro IIs, 2 assault launchers + sensor boosters/tracking comps. You are teh wrong.
You haven't specified on which ship you can fit 6 gyros and 6 1400 II's with AWU 3. Because you sure as hell cannot on a Tempest... unless you're using some xploit? 
Quote:
To bring 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II online requires 3289.0 power units, but only 2830.0 of the 19375.0 units that your power core produces are still available.
^AWU 4, the rest is same as yours, including 2 assault launchers...
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Mathews
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Posted - 2005.10.31 00:27:00 -
[50]
Weirda 4tw
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.10.31 00:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Denrace
I think Minmatar are freakin' awesome.
Bad times for them? I highly doubt it.
That's why I fly Minmatar ship.
The times aren't bad for us I agree but the next changes Minmatar get another passive nerf. Maybe it won't be one that messes everything up but I can tell you one for sure: Matari will spent the most time killing other ships than any other race, taht means they have more time to react, surprise is our strength.
We're already limited with our "electron blasters" with very small ammobays. I dunno how many times I ran out of ammo with 800mm or 1400mm. With the increased HP and the boost to tanking it will be even tighter.
Next point being are our guns: We only have ONE longrange gun for each class. I won't count the 1200mm/650mm/250mm. They are simply the worst guns in this game, atm no one would ever use a 1200mm over a 1400mm cause the drawbacks are'n worth it. Autocannons are very weak, don't tell me about volley damage. They have to use less energy (beams use more cap than pulse, I'm not sure about hybrids but they are very close to equal). ACs use WAY more cap/sec than Artys. I don't need much cap at longrange tbh, I need it on my closerange Tempest/whatever.
We got a few realy broken ships. Muninn is outclassed by the Vagabond in everything. Compared to other EW Cruisers the Bellicose is a mess. Why does a Wolf have a 5% falloff bonus? Why not a 10%?? Everyone got one. Why is the Wolf the damagedealing AF with the worst Grid AND CPU, I't so retarded: I see how easy a Harpy or Enyo is to fit compared to a Wolf.
Why do we have a useless BS? It can do NOTHING better than any other BS. Yeah it is fast bla bla bla... am I supposed to run with this ship? There are better ships for this job either. You can get a shuttle everywhere for 9k.
These are all small things. A few tweaks here and there and it's ok. Some of these things are realy broken and need fixing.
Why now? Why didn't we complain about it before? Well the next patch will be a boost to other races so to say. Matari aren't known for tanking, we allways looked for a way around it. It's been hard and a challange but that's why most people fly these ships. They are unpredictable and deadly in the right hands. If one thing is done wrong with them they will be utterly destroyed.
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.10.31 01:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 28/10/2005 23:15:19
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Originally by: Sarmaul
o We have one of the few ships that (with skills) can fit a full rack of it's best guns (1400mm IIs) and a full rack of gyrostabs without any powercore or cpu upgrades, and still have room for sensor boosters, tracking computers and all manner of EW gizmos
what skills are you talking about? I have adv. weapon upgrades lvl4 and I cant fit that.
Jesus have you actually trained any engineering skills?
As for the gun range, I meant to add when including falloff (added to the original post).
you can only fit 6 1400 IIs 6 damage mods with advanced weapon upgrades 5, and fitting 6 damage mods will suck after the patch.
I have advanced weapon upgrades 3 and engineering 5 and can (and do) fit 6 1400mm IIs, 6 gyro IIs, 2 assault launchers + sensor boosters/tracking comps. You are teh wrong.
gotta love it when noobs are so completely wrongand don't know it yet keep arguing.
Cosmic Fusion KB
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fl0pski
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Posted - 2005.10.31 07:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: fl0pski on 31/10/2005 07:24:24
edit
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.10.31 09:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 28/10/2005 23:15:19
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: JoeSomebody
Originally by: Sarmaul
o We have one of the few ships that (with skills) can fit a full rack of it's best guns (1400mm IIs) and a full rack of gyrostabs without any powercore or cpu upgrades, and still have room for sensor boosters, tracking computers and all manner of EW gizmos
what skills are you talking about? I have adv. weapon upgrades lvl4 and I cant fit that.
Jesus have you actually trained any engineering skills?
As for the gun range, I meant to add when including falloff (added to the original post).
you can only fit 6 1400 IIs 6 damage mods with advanced weapon upgrades 5, and fitting 6 damage mods will suck after the patch.
I have advanced weapon upgrades 3 and engineering 5 and can (and do) fit 6 1400mm IIs, 6 gyro IIs, 2 assault launchers + sensor boosters/tracking comps. You are teh wrong.
gotta love it when noobs are so completely wrongand don't know it yet keep arguing.
gotta love it when I admit I am wrong a few posts above but everyone conviniently ignores it in the hope of getting a cheap shot in.
Originally by: Chowdown
We camp a lot
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Kuningatar
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Posted - 2005.10.31 10:00:00 -
[55]
minmatar ftw!
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Masu'di
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Posted - 2005.10.31 11:40:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Masu''di on 31/10/2005 11:40:16
it clearly says on the character selection that Minmatars are the underdogs of Eve - so we knew what we were buying into
POS Drug Refinery |
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