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So... dreads don't go very far do they

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Blazde	Posted - 2005.10.29 00:49:00 - [1] I'm gonna get told this is intentional but there seems to be a huge barrier stretching through the middle of empire, between Stain and Querious, and between Geminate and Great Wildlands that needs the jump drive calibration skill on level 4 to cross: http://www.blazde.co.uk/eve/images/2005.10.29.00.25.17.png This probably hasn't been said before but: there's not enough 0.0 around. Everywhere seems to be doable without training the skill at all. It makes sense you have to do a lot of jumps, or go out of you way to get where you want, but to have to train this rank 9 skill to level 4 (as well as it's pre-requisite to lv5) just to get there at all is a little surprising Is anyone offering a dread-exchange service for people that are done trashing POSes on one side of the map and want to move to the other side? _ 4S Forums \| 4S KillList \| 4S IRC
danneh	Posted - 2005.10.29 01:00:00 - [2] More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own.
Strikeman	Posted - 2005.10.29 01:50:00 - [3] u can jump into systems up to 0.4 afaik ? what's the problem in using some empire lowsecs for that ? -- ISK is not your goal. If it is, u are playing the wrong game.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.10.29 01:56:00 - [4] The devs have already acknowledged that jump ranges aren't the best and looking at lengthening them in the next patch. But, as above, use low sec to move around for the time being. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
Blazde	Posted - 2005.10.29 02:00:00 - [5] CONCORD won't allow you to make fields in 0.4, you have to use 0.3 and there isn't any around the big green line on my map. _ 4S Forums \| 4S KillList \| 4S IRC
Dr Happy	Posted - 2005.10.29 02:02:00 - [6] Originally by: danneh More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own. I like this idea better
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2005.10.29 02:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: danneh More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own. I like this idea better Ditto. I wouldn't mind claiming 1 or 2 systems for a single corp.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.10.29 02:24:00 - [8] Originally by: F'nog The devs have already acknowledged that jump ranges aren't the best and looking at lengthening them in the next patch. But, as above, use low sec to move around for the time being. Erm, I think that map is showing the line you can't cross, even when you are using low sec space. Remember, you cannot enter a 0.4 security level area with a Dreadnaught. Harry Voyager
Jemba'k Ko'cha	Posted - 2005.10.29 10:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: danneh More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own. I like this idea better Ditto. I wouldn't mind claiming 1 or 2 systems for a single corp. thats the way it should be done anyway, its just the big corps lay claim to huge expanses of space that they cant properly defend. if more 0.0 became available the larger corps would just say "thats ours".
fairimear	Posted - 2005.10.29 10:28:00 - [10] the devs should bite the bullet and let them use empire and jumpgates. it's become clear these things are not uber as people moaned about pri-release and frankly it would help get some in pvp more if they can be sued n empire wars. the issue with concord can't be sucha big deal as im sure it would take long to code a special dmg multi for concord ships vs player dreads. Please resize your signature image, the filesize limit is 24,000 bytes - Imaran
Aequitas Veritas	Posted - 2005.10.29 10:43:00 - [11] Problem then they need like uberlarge sentryguns so the dreads dont tank them? Victuri te Salutant
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Jemba'k Ko'cha Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: danneh More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own. I like this idea better Ditto. I wouldn't mind claiming 1 or 2 systems for a single corp. thats the way it should be done anyway, its just the big corps lay claim to huge expanses of space that they cant properly defend. if more 0.0 became available the larger corps would just say "thats ours". The solution is to remove or modify instas so a single blob can't police multiple regions at the same time. Then the amount of 0.0 we have would probably be more than enough. Most of it is currently wasted by alliances just claiming it because they can without having to make any real effort to defend it because they can get anywhere pretty much instantly.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 29/10/2005 11:33:13 Originally by: Joerd Toastius The solution is to remove or modify instas so a single blob can't police multiple regions at the same time. Then the amount of 0.0 we have would probably be more than enough. Most of it is currently wasted by alliances just claiming it because they can without having to make any real effort to defend it because they can get anywhere pretty much instantly. removing bookmarks with out any way or form of compensation would prolly kill the game for good. Would you want to move a battleship / indy / freighter +60 jumps around ? Sorry no im not paying to stare on the screen and waste my time traveling as honestly said after your first 1000 jumps it becomes quiet boring. there is no easy solution to it and quiet frankly unless capital ships arent buffed and thought through we dont need titans or carriers which will also be close to 0 worth if they are anywhere near dreads in functionality and cost / useability ratio.
JoCool	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:36:00 - [14] You don't need to move it 60 jumps around. People don't want that and stay in their part of .0, so regional markets get created. This might be the very key to populating .0 _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Com Cam	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: Jemba'k Ko'cha Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Dr Happy Originally by: danneh More 0.0 space whould add some fun to the game, give the lil corporation possibility to claim some space as their own. I like this idea better Ditto. I wouldn't mind claiming 1 or 2 systems for a single corp. thats the way it should be done anyway, its just the big corps lay claim to huge expanses of space that they cant properly defend. if more 0.0 became available the larger corps would just say "thats ours". The solution is to remove or modify instas so a single blob can't police multiple regions at the same time. Then the amount of 0.0 we have would probably be more than enough. Most of it is currently wasted by alliances just claiming it because they can without having to make any real effort to defend it because they can get anywhere pretty much instantly. "Insta-jump" bookmarks has nothing to do with a huge alliance claiming large sections of the map (IMHO). The way I see them claiming huge sections of map is simply by controling the choke points into that area. The "insta-jump" bookmarks help make it possible to TRY to get through the gate camps. And before you say you are untouchable with the "insta-jump" bookmark...there are such a thing as the mobile warp disruptor, inst-lock gank setups, and other ways to combat the "insta-jump" traveler. I have been on both sides of the gate camps, both as the camper and the traveler trying to get past the camp. Now you are not 100% guarenteded to catch 100% of the people who try to run your blockade, but you can get a lot of them if you are set up properly on BOTH gates. "Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility" "Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 29/10/2005 12:00:37 You dont get around much if you think chokepoints have any relevance to claiming space anymore. check A2, it's NEVER camped. Yet, who contests Delve ? Noone does, not because of instas either. Single corps claiming single systems or constellations do nto work because of the efficiency effect of (proper)alliances over single smaller groups. No small group will contest a PCS, an alliance can. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:10:00 - [17] Originally by: JoCool You don't need to move it 60 jumps around. People don't want that and stay in their part of .0, so regional markets get created. This might be the very key to populating .0 maybe u should leave empire lowsec once in awhile, then you would realize that cache is by every mean "far off" from empire or Foutina or period basis or or or. those regions have no short route to empire which means that new players or ppl who move their stuff (due to leaving corp, trying to sell the new faction hardener, selling your highore minerals, the ice, the t2 stuff from their pos etc) need to move down to empire where the market buzzes. Hence they need to fly more or less regularly down there to get (skills new kits for your ships) or sell stuff. In addition alliances often rely on t2 market and t1 markets in empire to replace ships or to get low end minerals both adding to the need to fly this 60 jump route. Last but not least, removing bookmarks would also apply IN empire which would make freighters completely obsolete (115 m/s ftw) and damage market trading and "batering" in empire for ALL not just alliance players. As a conclusion of those points i would say that removing bookmarks would prolly lead to 0.0 even losing more attraction because noone wants to fly x hours to get a new ship, a new t2 mod for his new setup, a new skill after a patch or even to deliver his findings/minerals to empire.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 29/10/2005 12:00:37 You dont get around much if you think chokepoints have any relevance to claiming space anymore. check A2, it's NEVER camped. Yet, who contests Delve ? Noone does, not because of instas either. Single corps claiming single systems or constellations do nto work because of the efficiency effect of (proper)alliances over single smaller groups. No small group will contest a PCS, an alliance can. not to forget that the Eve system structure doesnt allow you to claim small pockets of space effectivly. If your entrance is camped by hostile forces all the time and you cant evade anymore u will have to give up. Last but not least dont forget that 0.0 is highly unpopular atm, so there are no real contestors for it who actually WANT it. Noone keeps you from challenging bob for delve or some other alliance for a constellation, if you feel u can take them on.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:14:00 - [19] Well, since its able to travel with -10 from the north to the south, you should be able to move your dread -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head!
Com Cam	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 29/10/2005 12:00:37 You dont get around much if you think chokepoints have any relevance to claiming space anymore. check A2, it's NEVER camped. Yet, who contests Delve ? Noone does, not because of instas either. Single corps claiming single systems or constellations do nto work because of the efficiency effect of (proper)alliances over single smaller groups. No small group will contest a PCS, an alliance can. Yea, I admit I have not got around at all in Eve in a while. I have been deployed to Iraq for the past 10 months and have not logged into the game at all. But I have been trying to keep up with what is going on in the forums. Did not know camping chokepoints was not as popular anymore. As to A2, I can remember a time IF you could get past that system and a couple further down the pipe you had it made for the most part. Looking forward to getting back into the game in couple weeks when I get home from the world's largest litter box. "Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Nafri Well, since its able to travel with -10 from the north to the south, you should be able to move your dread hehe not to be picky but as a -10 you can even go in 1.0 space if ure in a pod so that doesnt tell about the dread problems. However you can travel over the rift with the skill at 4 which would take a max of 2 weeks to train if im not mistaken.
Blazde	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:25:00 - [22] Thread was supposed to be about dreads not the big how-to-make-more-people-use-0.0 question that has so many other threads of it's own I assume the reason dreads can't go into > 0.3 is just purely to make them difficult to use. CONCORD should be able to deal with them anyway since you can build them in 1.0, and in 0.4 you can tank the sentries with BS/HAC so it'd be ludicrous if you couldn't in a dread. Preventing them going into seige mode in 0.5 and above would be enough to stop them terrorizing empire (if it's not already the case). _ 4S Forums \| 4S KillList \| 4S IRC
Hast	Posted - 2005.10.29 13:38:00 - [23] well... I kinda dont see the problem... cant you just use the smuggler gates? like from hlw up through GW and then through Gem and vale and so on?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.29 13:43:00 - [24] Jump drives are light-year range based, not jump gate count based. -------------
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.10.29 20:03:00 - [25] Originally by: JoCool You don't need to move it 60 jumps around. People don't want that and stay in their part of .0, so regional markets get created. This might be the very key to populating .0 Exactly. I'm not saying the problem is instas - I'm saying the problem is the mentality that you should be able to travel 60 jumps easily, that you should be able to shop around three or four regions in five minutes, or that you should be able to patrol an entire region in an evening. Yes, there are things that would need changing, like chokepoints, but I think it'd be a positive move. As to why dreads can't go in Empire - no POS. The only thing they'd have to shoot in Empire that'd be worthy of their firepower is NPC installations, and I doubt most factions would be keen on that kinda firepower drifting around in their space when it's controlled by pod pilots
Kunming	Posted - 2005.10.29 23:59:00 - [26] Long time ago, and I'm talking about a VERY long time here, CCP said they would add 2 more 0.0 regions, 1 between Period Basis/Querious-Stain/Paragon Soul and the other up between Germinate-Great Wildlands. I guess this plan was canceled early on when 0.0 couldnt attract enough population (which is a problem CCP is still working on very hard) Website Killboard
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.30 00:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 29/10/2005 11:33:13 Originally by: Joerd Toastius The solution is to remove or modify instas so a single blob can't police multiple regions at the same time. Then the amount of 0.0 we have would probably be more than enough. Most of it is currently wasted by alliances just claiming it because they can without having to make any real effort to defend it because they can get anywhere pretty much instantly. removing bookmarks with out any way or form of compensation would prolly kill the game for good. Bloody hell. Someone else has seen the light! "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.10.30 01:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Kcel Chim Edited by: Kcel Chim on 29/10/2005 11:33:13 Originally by: Joerd Toastius The solution is to remove or modify instas so a single blob can't police multiple regions at the same time. Then the amount of 0.0 we have would probably be more than enough. Most of it is currently wasted by alliances just claiming it because they can without having to make any real effort to defend it because they can get anywhere pretty much instantly. removing bookmarks with out any way or form of compensation would prolly kill the game for good. Bloody hell. Someone else has seen the light! Hmm? It's pretty damn obvious that removing Instas without some kind of alternative rapid-transit system (with conditions) in place will do more damage than it solves - if CCP weren't fully aware of that fact they'd have gone already.

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