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BPC -vs- BPO

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Dingomeat	Posted - 2005.10.29 03:15:00 - [1] Many of us that use BPO's and BPC's often have to sort them. This requires you to show info to get the details on runs. I would like to see CCP mark a corner of the icon on BPO's and BPC's with numbers for runs. BPO could be marked with a dash (Example -- ) and BPC could list runs and runs left (Example 15/1)
elFarto	Posted - 2005.10.29 11:40:00 - [2] This won't happen in the forseable future. This is due to the fact that the runs left is an attribute of the item, and would require an extra hit to the database PER blueprint. This would cause a lot of extra load. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Nelix Trist	Posted - 2005.10.29 12:07:00 - [3] Originally by: elFarto This won't happen in the forseable future. This is due to the fact that the runs left is an attribute of the item, and would require an extra hit to the database PER blueprint. This would cause a lot of extra load. Regards elFarto this is very true, i dont think there will be any kind of display other than in the attribute's tab itself. Sorry ----------------------------------
Zoran Durrant	Posted - 2005.10.31 07:43:00 - [4] Hello all, it would be great if CCP would provide a possibility to see the difference between a BPO and a BPC right away. Something like a BPO is blue and a BPC is green or gray. Or let it be like the Tech2 Flag of BP's, the BPC's might have a "C" on the right top. I would realy like to see the difference right away. Greets
Hafthor	Posted - 2005.10.31 12:10:00 - [5] SIGNED
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.10.31 14:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Zoran Durrant Hello all, it would be great if CCP would provide a possibility to see the difference between a BPO and a BPC right away. Something like a BPO is blue and a BPC is green or gray. Or let it be like the Tech2 Flag of BP's, the BPC's might have a "C" on the right top. I would realy like to see the difference right away. Greets not going to happen, reason why explained in the post above Originally by: Chowdown We camp a lot
NattyDreadlock	Posted - 2005.11.01 05:09:00 - [7] How about color code em? BPOs blue, BPCs red. _____________________________ You hit "insert pirate" with a frozen turd right in the eye from your 150mm railgun for 0.0 damage.
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.01 15:25:00 - [8] Originally by: NattyDreadlock How about color code em? BPOs blue, BPCs red. NO no no no no! The only difference between a BPO and a BPC is the amount of runs left. The client doesn't know about the attributes (runs left is an attribute) until you do a Show Info on it. Then it asks the server for all the attributes for an item. For the client to know about this, the server would need to look up the runs left attribute for each item in a hanger, and remember, some items may not be a blueprint. The reason CCP are not already doing this, is the extra load that it would put on the database/server. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Fire Hawk	Posted - 2005.11.02 11:15:00 - [9] Originally by: elFarto Originally by: NattyDreadlock How about color code em? BPOs blue, BPCs red. NO no no no no! The only difference between a BPO and a BPC is the amount of runs left. The client doesn't know about the attributes (runs left is an attribute) until you do a Show Info on it. Then it asks the server for all the attributes for an item. For the client to know about this, the server would need to look up the runs left attribute for each item in a hanger, and remember, some items may not be a blueprint. The reason CCP are not already doing this, is the extra load that it would put on the database/server. Regards elFarto even in client :/ Would be bad to open a container with 300 BPC's in ouch
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.02 11:20:00 - [10] so whats the RAMSEN 4000 for then lol - i reckon adding another ransen 4000 along side the existing one is the way to go. Then coloru code blue for BPOs and BPCs can be green
Nobues	Posted - 2005.11.03 02:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Nobues on 03/11/2005 02:24:47 Originally by: elFarto This won't happen in the forseable future. This is due to the fact that the runs left is an attribute of the item, and would require an extra hit to the database PER blueprint. This would cause a lot of extra load. Regards elFarto Well it wont require an extra hit to the datbase per blueprint becouse that hit is there on BPC, your just have to change the icon of it to shot that info, remember this attribute is there you just have to show info on the item to see it. oh PS whats worng with the color coding thing, I would LOVE TO SEE THIS! or adding the tech 2 thing to the BPC, and adding a C for copy like said above. and no it wont add "more server lag" becouse its all done on CLIENT SIDE!
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.04 17:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Nobues Well it wont require an extra hit to the datbase per blueprint becouse that hit is there on BPC, your just have to change the icon of it to shot that info, remember this attribute is there you just have to show info on the item to see it. oh PS whats worng with the color coding thing, I would LOVE TO SEE THIS! or adding the tech 2 thing to the BPC, and adding a C for copy like said above. and no it wont add "more server lag" becouse its all done on CLIENT SIDE! When you do a show info on a blueprint, the client must go to the server to retrieve the information for that blueprint, like wastage, mineral effiency, production effiency, and, yes you guessed it, runs left. Up until that point, the client doesn't have a clue about what attributes that blueprint has, and therefore is unable to predict wether or not it is a original or a copy. For the client to be able to colour code or display the amount of runs left in the icon, this information would need to be sent back as part of the response for the contents of a container. This requires the server to look up the extra information on runs left, when ever you want the contents of a container. This is where the extra load on the database comes from. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Nobues	Posted - 2005.11.04 23:46:00 - [13] Edited by: Nobues on 04/11/2005 23:47:29 Not if you make the BPC say light red or yellow, or even green, something other than blue, that would be all client side, and if I can recall back in beta, the BPC has a small counter on it showing the runs left, or am I'm our of my mind on that one? can someone els please fill me in. I remember seing a OLD! pic of BPO's and BPC and the BPC has a run counter on them. (in this pic)
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.05 11:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Nobues Edited by: Nobues on 04/11/2005 23:47:29 Not if you make the BPC say light red or yellow, or even green, something other than blue, that would be all client side, and if I can recall back in beta, the BPC has a small counter on it showing the runs left, or am I'm our of my mind on that one? can someone els please fill me in. I remember seing a OLD! pic of BPO's and BPC and the BPC has a run counter on them. (in this pic) Back in beta BPCs had unlimited runs, in fact they still had unlimited runs after release until they were fixed. The client cannot colour BPC's differently from BPO's because it does not know which ones are which. To do this the client would require more information which would require more information from the database. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Ramov Tinoga	Posted - 2005.11.05 12:12:00 - [15] Originally by: elFarto The client cannot colour BPC's differently from BPO's because it does not know which ones are which. To do this the client would require more information which would require more information from the database. And accessing "show info" on every single BP does reduce that database load how? -----
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.05 16:18:00 - [16] Edited by: elFarto on 05/11/2005 16:18:21 Originally by: Ramov Tinoga Originally by: elFarto The client cannot colour BPC's differently from BPO's because it does not know which ones are which. To do this the client would require more information which would require more information from the database. And accessing "show info" on every single BP does reduce that database load how? You may not click show info for every blueprint everytime you view a container that contains them. If the information was sent back to the client, it would be the equivilent of clicking show info on every blueprint everytime. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
HighlanderUK	Posted - 2005.11.07 09:27:00 - [17] Edited by: HighlanderUK on 07/11/2005 09:27:15 Guys give it up already, it ain't going to happen SOON(tm). As Elfarto and others have established, to keep reading every bpc/bpo in hangers each time they are opened, which is what your talking about - nobody would be able to fly in space, for all the lag from constantly reading the DB - there are hundreds of thousands of bp's out there. One possible tiny shard of light, would be if your client (character info) were updated with your bpo/bpc index, which was saved on your local machine, but this would be too much of a security risk / exploitable scenario. So your stuck with everything server side for now!! ****************** The Flying Scotsman ******************
Max DeathWish	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:33:00 - [18] Originally by: HighlanderUK Edited by: HighlanderUK on 07/11/2005 09:27:15 Guys give it up already, it ain't going to happen SOON(tm). As Elfarto and others have established, to keep reading every bpc/bpo in hangers each time they are opened, which is what your talking about - nobody would be able to fly in space, for all the lag from constantly reading the DB - there are hundreds of thousands of bp's out there. LIES!!! Think outside of the box, and stop being so contentious. PROBLEM: As stated by elFarto, the only thing that distinguishes BPo's from their copies is a single attribute, as they are programatically the same object. This would force an extra DB hit, yada yada yada. SOLUTION: Make blueprint copies a distinct, derivative object from blueprint originals. Thus, the client will be able to distinguish them without any additional input from the server. Too easy. Max DeathWIsh.
Phenomenor	Posted - 2005.11.08 05:18:00 - [19] bull****e: BPOs could be blue and BPCs could be another color. This would not affect server load. "The more we know, the brighter the light, but the greater the mating face with things still in the dark..."
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.08 09:33:00 - [20] Edited by: elFarto on 08/11/2005 09:33:44 Originally by: Max DeathWish SOLUTION: Make blueprint copies a distinct, derivative object from blueprint originals. Thus, the client will be able to distinguish them without any additional input from the server. This is one solution, but its's a lot of extra work and would require duplicating not only the blueprint items, but also the table in the database that contains the resources required to build that blueprint. So this isn't a very good solution. The best solution requires a change to the table that contains all the items that are in a container. Add a column to it indicating runs left on a BPC, but even this is highly specific to this problem so will never be done. Originally by: Phenomenor bull**e: BPOs could be blue and BPCs could be another color. This would not affect server load. Please read my posts above to see why this CANNOT happen. Then read them again, infact, keep reading them until you understand. Regards elFarto Stratego** > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.11.08 10:20:00 - [21] surley not that hard to colour code em - other NPC goods etc that are similar are also colour or icon coded
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.08 15:58:00 - [22] Accessing the runs attribute does not boost load noticably. Example: Go open your factory screen, then install a blueprint into a lab. It will load a screen showing not only all the runs on all your blueprints, but ME, PE, the whole shebang. It doesn't take any longer than loading the BPs in your items folder. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.08 16:40:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari Accessing the runs attribute does not boost load noticably. Example: Go open your factory screen, then install a blueprint into a lab. It will load a screen showing not only all the runs on all your blueprints, but ME, PE, the whole shebang. It doesn't take any longer than loading the BPs in your items folder. Comparing the load times of 1 blueprint to a folder full of blueprints is silly to say the least. Viewing the details in a factory slot is the same as clicking Show Info on 1 blueprint in your folder. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
HighlanderUK	Posted - 2005.11.08 17:19:00 - [24] Edited by: HighlanderUK on 08/11/2005 17:20:27 forum borked @ first attempt @ posting. ****************** The Flying Scotsman ******************
HighlanderUK	Posted - 2005.11.08 17:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Max DeathWish LIES!!! Think outside of the box, and stop being so contentious. PROBLEM: As stated by elFarto, the only thing that distinguishes BPo's from their copies is a single attribute, as they are programatically the same object. This would force an extra DB hit, yada yada yada. SOLUTION: Make blueprint copies a distinct, derivative object from blueprint originals. Thus, the client will be able to distinguish them without any additional input from the server. Too easy. Max DeathWIsh. Who's being contentious, you obviously do not understand the basic concept that is trying to be conveyed, and stated on previous posts, as to why this cannot be done easily. Think of it as having gone down a narrow one way road for a few miles (and no reverse gear), and now you need to change direction, but missed the turn-off (add in BP changes), you have already spent considerable time and effort getting to where you are (the existing EVE DB), so to add this change to your journey, that's behind you it's going to be difficult. Now try to comprehend how to recode all the BP data into 2 sections, and then squeeze it back into the existing DB, you will understand the scale of the job. They may look at doing this with the Kali rebuild, as I would imagine they will be up-scaling everything to a new design model, to last us another few years, now that Castor is almost used up. Chill mate. ****************** The Flying Scotsman ******************
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.11.08 18:30:00 - [26] given they are distinct objects couldnt they just change the icons for the origial to have a big O on it and a copy to have a big C on it? it works for miner 1 vs miner 2 dont it ? TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
elFarto	Posted - 2005.11.08 21:04:00 - [27] Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse given they are distinct objects couldnt they just change the icons for the origial to have a big O on it and a copy to have a big C on it? it works for miner 1 vs miner 2 dont it ? No. This is the problem, BPC's and BPO's are NOT distinct items, they are the same item, with different properties. Miner 1's and Miner 2's are different items, therefore the client can tell them apart, and use different icons for them. Regards elFarto Stratego > 2005.10.22 14:15:17 combat Imperium Alliance petitions you, glancing off causing no real damage.
Ricky Baby	Posted - 2005.11.08 22:17:00 - [28] the client has the images already, all it needs to is go: if ( the blueprint has infinate runs ) { use the bpo icon else { use the bpc icon } really simple and fast way to solve it - create NO extra load for the server as its all done client side
thaldor grimbeth	Posted - 2005.11.08 23:57:00 - [29] have to agree now knowing the difference is annoying.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.09 01:10:00 - [30] Originally by: elFarto Originally by: Dark Shikari Accessing the runs attribute does not boost load noticably. Example: Go open your factory screen, then install a blueprint into a lab. It will load a screen showing not only all the runs on all your blueprints, but ME, PE, the whole shebang. It doesn't take any longer than loading the BPs in your items folder. Comparing the load times of 1 blueprint to a folder full of blueprints is silly to say the least. Viewing the details in a factory slot is the same as clicking Show Info on 1 blueprint in your folder. Regards elFarto Wrong. When you open the factory slot, it shows a list of every single BPO in your hangar including all your BPOs all at once. Try it sometime. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.

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