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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15298
   |
Posted - 2013.07.30 11:27:00 -
[91] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Good lord, are people still wasting time with this? Apparently morals have nothing to do with someone deciding, what is good or bad and the bounty system isn't fair. Because fair in a sandbox game, means respecting others play styles and not interfering with them. Because of anarchy.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 16:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Good lord, are people still wasting time with this?
Since when is making the use of the assembly hall for voicing matters that concern players a waste of time? Never. That came off as a very biased comment from a CSM that is allegedly to be unbiased on player comments in a forum section such as this imo.
Fairness was brought up because fairness was in CCP's direct quote is why, RoAnnon.
It boggles my mind also in that CCP just last year made it very clear after the panel bullying incident that CCP does not endorse harassment in any form, yet the new bounty system is exactly that, a bully enabler.
GÇ£I want to reassure you that CCP in no way condones the harassment of players, especially those who suffer from depression or suicidal thoughts, as we understand the possible consequences of such abhorrent behavior,GÇ¥ CCPGÇÖs Ned Coker said." |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Ex Cinere Scriptor
2242
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 16:56:00 -
[93] - Quote
The bounty system is a weapon, it is simply less direct than a turret or missile.
Any abuse of this weapon that is demonstrated to be harassment can be handled appropriately.
Since the bounty has no meaning, or harassment potential, if weapons are not used towards that target, should we also place more limits on these weapons that can be mounted on turrets or missiles?
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15302
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:31:00 -
[94] - Quote
Good to see Galdor still clutching at straws and involving unrelated quotes from CCP.
Let me show you some quotes, that are related to bounties.
CCP Punkturis wrote:Adam Gamel wrote:Essentially players can just wait in the newb areas, and every time a new player undocks, just places a bounty on their head. well you don't want to wait for them to undock.. you can place bounties on them (and anyone) while they're docked too!
CCP Eterne wrote:Bane Necran wrote:It does appear to be very well thought out, but only the combined efforts to exploit it by every single EVE player will prove whether it's perfect or not. We actually look forward to this.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15302
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:34:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Shayden wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:
I believe (I have faith!) that people will mostly be putting bounties on people that annoy them, not just random people in local..
Too late :) I witnessed this today: people slapping 100.000 ISK on random people for lulz (the system is 2 days old, I'm just happy people are trying it out v0v) but then someone was being super annoying and he got 70.000.000 ISK bounty in just a few minutes I'd say that's pretty much how I said things would work out I'm excited to see how the system evolves over the next few weeks. I've been have so much fun watching the most wanted and top bounty hunters lists since Tuesday 
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15302
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:38:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Singulis Pacifica wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:
I witnessed this today:
but then someone was being super annoying and he got 70.000.000 ISK bounty in just a few minutes
I'd say that's pretty much how I said things would work out
Absolutely, and for that the bounty hunter system definitely serves its purpose. But the current system also fails horribly because of this: CCP Punkturis wrote:
people slapping 100.000 ISK on random people for lulz (the system is 2 days old, I'm just happy people are trying it out v0v)
I understand you are happy people to try it out, but A: That's what Buckingham is for. B: The bounties of 100k ISK are, like any bounty indefinite until the player loses his ship which is valued enough to have the bounty paid out in full. One of the things we players put forth in the dev blog was timers on bounties to make sure they do actually mean something. And if useless bounties are being put left and right on people for the lolz (most likely to see the response), then the person that received it knows it will be gone in a month or so anyway. This was all you needed to do to make the system work. Yet you decided to wait and see what happens clearly ignoring the warnings of players and now you see for yourself that people are clearly not using it the way you predicted. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. "Yet you decided to wait and see what happens clearly ignoring the warnings of players and now you see for yourself that people are clearly not using it the way you predicted. " and what has happened? people have bounties.. and what? are hisec people being ganked because of it?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15302
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:40:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Methelic Mahyisti wrote:I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.
Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So stupid How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.
CCP Soundwave wrote:Wumpscuut Embryodead wrote:You=everyone. there is no roleplay. sanbox isn't sandbox when you are funnel'd into a potentional for-profit person because you be seen in a chat. but this isn't limited to being bountied "only because you exist in a chat", it also applies to the fact that a large part of the free will of this game is gone now. if someone even knows that you exist, then suddenly you have these consequences on you. This changes the open world nature of the game and frankly I'm surprised no one brought these basic things up at your meetings. We're well aware of the consequences, they're entirely intended. It's not that no one brought those things up, it's that you and I fundamentally disagree on how this feature should work, which is completely fine.
CCP Soundwave wrote:The sandbox isn't for everyone vOv
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 04:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
@Nikk:
Essentially you are right. Those exploiting the current bounty system are using it as a weapon against those they cannot openly attack as freely as they would like since those players they target do not normally stoop to their level.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11043
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 06:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
Galdor wrote:@Nikk:
Essentially you are right. Those exploiting the current bounty system are using it as a weapon against those they cannot openly attack as freely as they would like since those players they target do not normally stoop to their level.
You have succintly described what a bounty system is for.
1 Kings 12:11
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15302
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:38:00 -
[100] - Quote
Galdor wrote:@Nikk:
Essentially you are right. Those exploiting the current bounty system are using it as a weapon against those they cannot openly attack as freely as they would like since those players they target do not normally stoop to their level.
Stoop to their level? I take it then you have never won at a game of chess then, as you wouldn't stoop so low as to be involved in regicide.
But you are correct, it is a weapon but a rather blunt one at that. But it is working as intended. 
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
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Posted - 2013.08.01 02:54:00 -
[101] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Galdor wrote:@Nikk:
Essentially you are right. Those exploiting the current bounty system are using it as a weapon against those they cannot openly attack as freely as they would like since those players they target do not normally stoop to their level.
You have succintly described what a bounty system is for.
No. You have proven you did not read CCP's own description of what the bounty system is intended for at the link I provided and quoted. That being that fair retribution for actions leading to consequences based on those actions. None of that is being done when bounties are falsely placed based on mere words posted in a chat channel.
This right here is the main problem of these forums. There is entirely too much childish rhetoric thrown about by many who apparently are not able to understand the significance of properly cited comments made and their implications validating a person's point.
How can anyone expect anything to be resolved via the CSMs here if they themselves cannot perform as CCP has stated the purpose of a CSM is. All I have seen so far is biased, snide remarks that come off as them remaining indifferent toward the playerbase as a whole that may or may not have voted for them.
"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the greatest good for the greater player base."
http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11052
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 05:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
My position on this issue was very clear long before I was elected. I would be doing those who voted for a gross disservice by changing my mind without a far more powerful argument than "a bloo bloo someone put a bounty on me".
Talking (or typing) are both verbs; they are actions. It is ridiculous to say that "mere words" cannot be sufficient motivation for revenge and punishment when even a cursory glance at history shows that they most certainly can. Or even the news; I'm pretty sure that Mr Bradley and Mr Snowden could both provide you with a very definite opinion on the subject.
1 Kings 12:11
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Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
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Posted - 2013.08.02 03:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Thanks for bumping the thread so this topic stays in the spotlight where it belongs, despite the condescending, short-sighted and immature comments. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11060
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 06:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Thank you for continuing to so thoroughly discredit this bad, destructive idea by blatantly ignoring simple facts that utterly destroy your arguments.
1 Kings 12:11
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3337
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 10:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
I'm bumping this post so it stays in the spotlight where it belongs, as a warning to others who want changes personally tailored to suit themselves due to some perceived injustice that doesn't actually exist. If you're going to suggest something silly & expect it to be taken seriously, make a damn good argument for it.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 14:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
The only thing the last two are proving is that EVE has a large population of illiterate goons. Like I said, attacking the arguer instead of disproving an argument logically, is called an informal fallacy, i.e; ad hominem. Feel free to pick up a dictionary some time or even take an English college course. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3341
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 21:10:00 -
[107] - Quote
Galdor wrote:The only thing the last two are proving is that EVE has quite a few illiterate goons. Like I said, attacking the arguer instead of disproving an argument logically, is called an informal fallacy, i.e; ad hominem. Feel free to pick up a dictionary some time or even take an English college course.
I don't think 'illiterate' means what you think it means. You were looking for 'Reading comprehension failure', which you appear to have since Malcanis isn't even a Goon.
E: Nevermind that your argument has been disproved already & you did the equivalent of blocking your ears & screaming "I'm not listening" over & over.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
2955
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 22:36:00 -
[108] - Quote
Galdor wrote:Like I said, attacking the arguer instead of disproving an argument logically, is called an informal fallacy,
People have already have logically deconstructed your argument by showing that you can't mechanically decide "valid" and "invalid" rationalizations as everyone has different reasons for doing things that others may or may not like (which includes words as they can sometimes be just as powerful, if not more so, than any action).
However, you are choosing not to listen to those arguments (or see them as valid) because they don't fit into your perceptions of how the world is (or rather, "should be")... which we (and some DEVs) fundamentally disagree with you on as it infringes on the concept of a "multiplayer sandbox."
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11069
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 08:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
I'll try and put this in a way you can't possibly misunderstand:
NO.
1 Kings 12:11
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Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 20:15:00 -
[110] - Quote
Malcanis, why do you assume I would expect you to take this important issue to EVE? I never said that once. Thankfully, you are not the only CSM and that your 'term' is limited.
Especially given the fact I already pointed out, you do not seem to even comprehend the stated purpose of a CSM that CCP posted and you severely lack any kind of people skills on top of the inability to comprehend the difference between substantial and subjective proof apparently.
It is also mildly interesting, how other certain posters continue posting and helping to bump the thread. Even though they already proved as well that they are apparently not able to accept substantial proof in light of their own anarchistic ideals not falling in line with the written lore and EVE novels.
Granted, there are seedy types within the lore of EVE. However there is nowhere near the large unregulated population of anarchists that those few claim exist in the lore. I would post links to quotes of that evidence, but those posters have proven they have an inability to concede being wrong so far and insist on pure trolling at this point.
Regardless of the trolls and the egomaniacal Malcanis, it does not make the issue of exploited bounties magically vanish. Especially given the fact the number of players that post on these forums are nowhere near the representative consensus of players who play EVE Online. I have been in EVE for over ten years now, staying the course and playing the same way based on the same ideals, and I will be here another 10 years as well doing the same.
This bounty issue is only a recent problem with the latest expansion, so it is not irreparable and certainly not wholly representative of the usual nature of EVE based on it's short exposure in-game so far. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11075
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Posted - 2013.08.04 21:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
Ah the classic "everyone hates my idea, that proves it's good" line.
1 Kings 12:11
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mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1406
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
Galdor wrote:Malcanis wrote:Galdor wrote:@Nikk:
Essentially you are right. Those exploiting the current bounty system are using it as a weapon against those they cannot openly attack as freely as they would like since those players they target do not normally stoop to their level.
You have succintly described what a bounty system is for. No. You have proven you did not read CCP's own description of what the bounty system is intended for at the link I provided and quoted. That being that fair retribution for actions leading to consequences based on those actions. None of that is being done when bounties are falsely placed based on mere words posted in a chat channel.
In allowing players to place a bounty for whatever reason they wish, rather than restricting bounty placement only as a response to a handful of "actions", CCP made the wise decision to respect the sandbox and interfere with it as little as possible.
This is a good thing. Sorry if you disagree.
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Galdor
Electric Sun Associates
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 19:23:00 -
[113] - Quote
@mynnna:
I would not expect you to agree with anything that is not anarchistic given either of your history. As far as respecting the sandbox goes, as I pointed out previously, no other MMO has ever been able to sustain profitability by allowing anarchistic behavior to rule supreme in a game. Every single other open-pvp that started out as anarchistic has had to revamp their game completely to allow for a balance of playstyles.
@Malcanis:
My posts have been about facts and objective logic, not subjective opinion and personal condescension which discredits any sort of valid argument. If by using proper grammar and fundamental tactics of stating an argument is considered classic, then I accept the compliment.
Fortunately as I pointed out yesterday, CSM 'terms' are limited. It also helps that since CCP is so apt to re-adding useless ship spinning features to the game, fixing the exploited bounty system is definitely more likely to occur inevitably due to it being a much more useful feature in the preservation of the playstyle population balance.
Additionally, the fact that none of the naysayers still haven't admitted the fact, as I said earlier, that EVE requires a balance of 'carebears' and 'pvpers' is also added proof in your inability to grasp the facts. As a result of the new bounty changes, it only caters to the pvpers who want to force everyone to pvp and offsets the balance of the playstyles in EVE. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15309
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 09:01:00 -
[114] - Quote
Galdor wrote:By the way, Shahfluffers and his corp pal, Gritz1, recently helped to prove further the bounty system is being exploited by their adding bounties on myself when they have had zero interaction with me in-game. They are solely basing their dislike for my right to post here in the forums as an excuse to abuse the system. Well to be fair, your posting and attitude towards others leaves a lot to be desired. I'm surprised your bounty isn't far higher tbh.
Your argument boils down to this: You wanting to decide what is and isn't a good reason for a bounty,
But in a sandbox game, that isn't going to happen. But thanks for posting.
Oh and bump.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11134
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Posted - 2013.08.06 09:21:00 -
[115] - Quote
Galdor wrote:
@Malcanis:
My posts have been about facts and objective logic, not subjective opinion
Yeah like the way that you were super objective about the FACT of Snowden and Manning being punished for "mere words"?
You're literally the king of subjective opinion.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11135
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 09:48:00 -
[116] - Quote
Galdor wrote:They are solely basing their dislike for my right to post here in the forums as an excuse to abuse the system.
This is an excellent use (not abuse) of the bounty system, perfectly mirrored in the real world, as if that matters.
Or are you going to claim that's a "subjective opinion" too?
1 Kings 12:11
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
2659
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 11:21:00 -
[117] - Quote
I have deleted some pointless bickering from this thread.
EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1413
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:37:00 -
[118] - Quote
Galdor wrote:By the way, Shahfluffers and his corp pal, Gritz1, recently helped to prove further the bounty system is being exploited by their adding bounties on myself when they have had zero interaction with me in-game. They are solely basing their dislike for my right to post here in the forums as an excuse to abuse the system.
Your words here probably caused them so much mental anguish that they lost ships or something. Sounds justified to me.
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
11137
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 12:40:00 -
[119] - Quote
Owing to a couple of expensive losses my bounty is looking very meagre.
Indicate your displeasure at my posting by restoring it.
1 Kings 12:11
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Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
157
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 15:15:00 -
[120] - Quote
Galdor wrote:By the way, Shahfluffers and his corp pal, Gritz1, recently helped to prove further the bounty system is being exploited by their adding bounties on myself when they have had zero interaction with me in-game. They are solely basing their dislike for my right to post here in the forums as an excuse to abuse the system. It has even been suggested to add a bounty button to the forums, by the previous CSM chairman no less:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180960
Seleene wrote:Bounty Hunting session at the CSM Summit - I brought this up one minute in. Not one frown in the room. Lots of smiles. I think this may actually happen but, "No promises." They have to say that but... I'd wager we are going to see it at some point. ;) |
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