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Tom Hanks
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Posted - 2005.10.30 15:10:00 -
[1]
Ok, I know I am gonna get flamed by the pirates, and supported by everyone else. But pirates should all die, and burn in hell.
I am really sick and tired of having an enemy fleet of pirates loaded with 6 warp core stabilizers warping around sniping with impunity. It is rediculous. Warp core stabs should be for haulers.
The idea that a BATTLESHIP fits 6 of them with no penalties blows me away...I know the argument about not having those low slots available for damage mods or tanking or whatever. But the ability to still do near full damage and warp out unless you have 5 scramblers on you more than makes up for it since you can evade 95% of the time!
I think that warp core stabs should have stacking penalties. Such as their fitting requirements double, or triple for every stab beyond the 1st. Or that they reduce capacitor by 20% for each one fitted. Or they increase lock time by 50% per stab.
These things make hit and run simply a matter of aligning to warp out and hitting warp, instead of using real effort in positioning your fleets. It doesnt matter where you are really in relation to the enemy if you can warp out almost 100% of the time!
I want to see severe penalties on the ship, so that 3 or more stabs make a ship so severely gimped that they are only good for warping out, and cant fight at all.
Lets get some support....
CCP, NERF THE STABS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Tom Hanks
CEO of The Blue Team!
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.10.30 16:00:00 -
[2]
Only read the first line, figured its not worth a mature reply so;
Omgbuhu? Wts: cheese.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2005.10.30 16:28:00 -
[3]
I'm with the above poster but I will say....
In order to reach the ranges required for gate sniping I would have thought they would need weapon mods (i.e. heatsinks and so on) As even large guns dont reach "that" far to be out of the range of sentry guns.
And.. This topic is posted on an almost daily basis, please just find an old thread and add it in there so you dont disturb the other threads with this pointless whining, the only folk who want it nerfed are either pirates (scrambling indies will be easier then :)) or random people who want to take on a warp aligned sniping battleship. Face it.. stabs or not, you cannot travel 200km in an interceptor even and lock and scramble him in time before he warps.
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JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.10.30 16:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Only read the first line, figured its not worth a mature reply so;
Omgbuhu? Wts: cheese.
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Petition: Nerf alts! |
Draenor Thalander
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Posted - 2005.10.30 20:49:00 -
[5]
The current way warp dries work is just silly in itself. It's near impossible to give pursuit, and scrambling is such an all-or-none endeavor. Scrambling is only in the game because pursuit with the current implimentation of warp is neigh impossible.
A good way of handling it would be comparable to Freelancer. Trade lanes provided the fast transit, but ships could also navigate the solar system without them. Granted, the solar systems were incredibly tiny, but it still gave rise to the ability to pursue an opponent.
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.10.30 23:14:00 -
[6]
it will be impossible to satisfy any clear majority of players with the systems surrounding WCSs and Scramblers.. I say, rid the game of both mods all together, and then make some system based on skill in navigation to determine weither or not you can quickly and accurately follow peoiple when they run away.. In that same vein though I'd say keep the deployable warp scrambling bubble generators.
Further, I believe there is some debate and discussion on redevelopment of the whole warp core system. Instead of it being a flat all or nothing proposal, a players warp core could be displayed as a percentage like cap. Then mods to destabilise it affect that percentage over time, and if your stability drops below a minimum percentage you are unable to warp. This would give hugh advantage to smaller fast ships, and penalties to larger slowwer ones.. Mods then would shift to affecting the over all pool of stability, or adding resistance bonuses to how fast your stability can be scrambled, and so on..
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2005.10.31 01:07:00 -
[7]
Before posting a nerf post you must remember some basic rules:
a) The post must be created with facts, not just subjective opinions. If you want the warp core stabilizers nerfed, come with setups and situations where the wcs are clearly a module that gives too much advantage over other ships/modules.
b) Subjective opinions are bad. In my country say that "The comparisons are odious" but in the case of trying to make a change where the numbers are heavily involved they are the best way to get someone interested 
c) Atract as much player attention as you cant. If you cannot give good information, maybe another player can do it in your post and help you in your cause 
So if you want to post another wcs-nerf post. Make sure that it is more serious.
And thats all folks! 
P.S.: Use the caps only in case of emergency, ending the post with caps doesnt give you more reason 
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2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2005.10.31 03:36:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lord Frost on 31/10/2005 03:37:40
Edited by: Lord Frost on 31/10/2005 03:37:13
Originally by: Caldorous
Before posting a nerf post you must remember some basic rules:
a) The post must be created with facts, not just subjective opinions. If you want the warp core stabilizers nerfed, come with setups and situations where the wcs are clearly a module that gives too much advantage over other ships/modules.
b) Subjective opinions are bad. In my country say that "The comparisons are odious" but in the case of trying to make a change where the numbers are heavily involved they are the best way to get someone interested
c) Atract as much player attention as you cant. If you cannot give good information, maybe another player can do it in your post and help you in your cause
A) wcs are one of those mods that give you a ton of benefit and no risk. simple facts. not too hard to understand that. you're gaining an almost definite way to escape without losing any offensive capabilities.
B) huh?
C) hah?
my guess is CCP will make 3 types of wcs like they did the ABs and MWDs... also perhaps make it skill based like they do most of the nerfs these days.
but I'm just an opinion, I have no facts... I sure can't make a diagram or spreadsheet of stats... and I wont be gathering movies of 100s of pirates running away. But perhaps you can show how they are NOT such an advantage instead of proclaiming to be some expert in analysis and serving no real opinion here... cheers mate.
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.10.31 04:35:00 -
[9]
Quote:
A) wcs are one of those mods that give you a ton of benefit and no risk. simple facts. not too hard to understand that. you're gaining an almost definite way to escape without losing any offensive capabilities.
Opportunity cost. Look it up.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Pestillence
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Posted - 2005.10.31 08:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Derron Bel
Quote:
A) wcs are one of those mods that give you a ton of benefit and no risk. simple facts. not too hard to understand that. you're gaining an almost definite way to escape without losing any offensive capabilities.
Opportunity cost. Look it up.
In that case its a small loss for a large gain.
Otherwise known in gaming circles as "not balanced"
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.31 11:30:00 -
[11]
im actually in the camp for t2 warp scrambers and t2 warp stabs just to add complexity and perhaps being now on a % chance ie WCS versus warp jammers on a basis of 1.x strength
On the other hand if u want to beat gate snipers - a cloaker is useful (cloak before they lock u in) nanos. Safespots then cloak until they get bored looking for u. Heavy NOS if those pesky little pirate frigs get to close NOS the living daylights out of em then their scramblers wont work. (heavy drones also good) allowing u time to escape or jump
I think a lot of its well balanced now. Most gate snipers if u come along in a covert ops and cloak will get very nervous because they dont know if u can get within 5-10km of them have youre main fleet jump through and then uncloak and they can warp right in close to u being near the snipers and then the snipers can be locked down etc (ive been in fleet combat against pirates in low sec where we have done this time and time again) and the gate sentry pirate from 160km very quickly learn they arent invulnurable either.
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Tom Hanks
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Posted - 2005.10.31 14:46:00 -
[12]
Well I notice people posting about how to escape snipers with loads of warp core stabs. The whole point isnt about trying to escape, the whole point is that its extremely difficult to pin them down to kill them.
Stabs should have like 20% chance to negate 1 warp scramble strength or something, and you could skill it up for more chances or something. That would help to balance it out. And then diminishing returns for more than 1 stab.
Its such BS when you have 4 scramble strength on something and it still warps off...so aggravating. Its overpowered like a mofo.
Tom Hanks
CEO of The Blue Team!
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Binary Mind
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Posted - 2005.10.31 15:37:00 -
[13]
using stabs is a tactic as all the others.
if you use more stabs you cannot load other modules, for example damage modules, so stop whining.
btw, pirates are very important for this game, whoever doesn't see that should go play something else.
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Tom Hanks
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Posted - 2005.10.31 21:23:00 -
[14]
Ask yourself this. Is it fair that people can load up with lots of stabs and make their survivability about 90% or higher, at the sacrifice of 30% of their possible firepower?
NO.
Thats imbalanced, you can call it whining if you want, but its flat out imbalanced. Stabs need to have their asses nerfed.
Tom Hanks
CEO of The Blue Team!
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Laocoon
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Posted - 2005.10.31 21:57:00 -
[15]
wts: TII tissue w/ a dose of omgboohoo2u
geez
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Originally by: Oveur
Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.31 22:17:00 -
[16]
WTB t2 warp stabs and t2 warp jammers
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.10.31 22:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
Ask yourself this. Is it fair that people can load up with lots of stabs and make their survivability about 90% or higher, at the sacrifice of 30% of their possible firepower?
YES! I will always err on the side of survivability.
Its my perogative to equip my ship to ensure that I always have advantage over choosing my fights.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.31 23:12:00 -
[18]
thats the thing with eve if u want to survive it upsets pirates but u can simply fit to evade (cloaker as well)
now as for pirates well they get their sensor boosters and tracking boosters to sit at a gate and gank people from afar its lazy but its a valid tactic (now ppl have cottoned on to avoid it fit some stabs) ok so now pirates have to put their ships in real danger to get the attack sit at the gate have a frig or fast tracking destoryer and lock down those BS then goto town on em.
A scorpian in a pirate gang with 8 warp jammers will jam up anyone even if they have 8 warp stabs on. So before u whine fit those warp jammers to a 8 mid slot ship and jam em up whiole youre buddies mop the floor with that carebear.
For every tactic of evasion there is a co op tactic of jamming em in - even if they have instas they still have to come out the other side
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Tom Hanks
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Posted - 2005.11.01 04:15:00 -
[19]
Is it possible to overcome 5 stabs, yes. Does it take a huge effort and risk to do it....yes.
The 1600mm plate thorax is overpowered and everyone knows it, thats why its being nerfed in later patches. Is it possible to kill it, yes. But it takes alot more effort than it should.
The point is that stabs are too powerful, they need to be nerfed. If you wanna say that using 4 or 5 stabs is a way to choose battles, I agree its a way to do that, but it requires barely any skills and works great every freakin time. Just like ECM switched from working every time if you simply had more sensor jamming than they had sensor strength to working on a % chance....why dont we have that for warp core stabs/scramblers?
I am not saying to get rid of stabilizers. I am saying they need to be redone so they arent so absolute and certain of a defense.
CCP needs to make stabilizers work on a % basis depending on how many they have equipped, with diminishing returns when you use multiple stabs, and have them alot more skill oriented so that for them to work well you actually need to spend more than 30 minutes training.
Tom Hanks
CEO of The Blue Team!
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JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.11.01 04:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
Is it possible to overcome 5 stabs, yes. Does it take a huge effort and risk to do it....yes.
The 1600mm plate thorax is overpowered and everyone knows it, thats why its being nerfed in later patches. Is it possible to kill it, yes. But it takes alot more effort than it should.
The point is that stabs are too powerful, they need to be nerfed. If you wanna say that using 4 or 5 stabs is a way to choose battles, I agree its a way to do that, but it requires barely any skills and works great every freakin time. Just like ECM switched from working every time if you simply had more sensor jamming than they had sensor strength to working on a % chance....why dont we have that for warp core stabs/scramblers?
I am not saying to get rid of stabilizers. I am saying they need to be redone so they arent so absolute and certain of a defense.
CCP needs to make stabilizers work on a % basis depending on how many they have equipped, with diminishing returns when you use multiple stabs, and have them alot more skill oriented so that for them to work well you actually need to spend more than 30 minutes training.
right after scrambler will start taking 100-200 cap per cycle... kthxbye
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Petition: Nerf alts! |
Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tom Hanks
Is it possible to overcome 5 stabs, yes. Does it take a huge effort and risk to do it....yes.
The 1600mm plate thorax is overpowered and everyone knows it, thats why its being nerfed in later patches. Is it possible to kill it, yes. But it takes alot more effort than it should.
They are actually nerfing the platerax 2 times, once for the rax, once for the armor plates.. Did the rax really need THAT much nerf? and with the proposed drone changes the new 100m3 rax drone bay will be worth 50m3.. So we could say the rax will get the nerf bat 3 times..
Originally by: Tom Hanks
The point is that stabs are too powerful, they need to be nerfed. If you wanna say that using 4 or 5 stabs is a way to choose battles, I agree its a way to do that, but it requires barely any skills and works great every freakin time. Just like ECM switched from working every time if you simply had more sensor jamming than they had sensor strength to working on a % chance....why dont we have that for warp core stabs/scramblers?
Look, its no suprise that using stabs are low skill and work well, because any new player, without alot of ISK or skill who is into mining or trading will need those stabs to survive because they NEVER want a fight. Stabs and instas are the primary way for them to do that. I have no complaint about the system in place for WCS and scramblers because it improves survivability in a game where its really do damned easy to get killed in PvP and loose everything.
Originally by: Tom Hanks
I am not saying to get rid of stabilizers. I am saying they need to be redone so they arent so absolute and certain of a defense.
CCP needs to make stabilizers work on a % basis depending on how many they have equipped, with diminishing returns when you use multiple stabs, and have them alot more skill oriented so that for them to work well you actually need to spend more than 30 minutes training.
I believe they are looking into changes to core stability, or I have seen some good posting about it from time to time.. However on the pole of project importance this issue is right down there with market exploits.. In any event those who complain most are the attackers, not defenders.. If I want to become a PvP'er and go after people and become frustrated by WCS's preventing me from getting a kill I'd adapt my strategy untill I found something that worked or had tried everything possible.. Then I might come in here and lay down all my findings and suggest changes..
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