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Antic
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Antic on 01/11/2005 15:03:55
 Originally by: Tuxford
I'm changing the racial damage bonus to all damage types.
Thats from the stickied drone thread in this forum.
Tux was quick to change the racial damage bonus for drone ships to a general one after complaints. When will we see the same willingness by Tux and TomB to listen to us who have said the very same thing about the caldari ships Kinetic missile only damage bonus to most of the caldari missile ships, for example the cerebrus? No the raven has nothing to do with this so leave it out of it.
The situations are similar so why should gallente be given a perk such as this and caldari not?
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dalman
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:08:00 -
[2]
Why shouldn't I compare the bonus on my Dominix with the bonus on my Raven
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: dalman
Why shouldn't I compare the bonus on my Dominix with the bonus on my Raven
You misunderstand me. I say people should not compare the raven to other missile ships. As they usualy do when they claim missile ships do not need general damage bonuses.
Firstly ravens do not have a damage bonus, it has a RoF bonus. And secondly it is not the only missile ship. All others suffers from a Kinetic missile only damage bonus.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:12:00 -
[4]
Jesus, shut your whining.
At least your battleships have USABLE bonuses, and not the Typhoon junk bonus/junk slot/junk everything setup we get.
As someone recently mentioned, Minmatar are far far behind the
other races in most every way. But you dont hear us hanging on every word, every sentence, and every semantic possiblity.
Work with what you got until the fix comes around. We've been doing it for ages.
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This is not the signature you are looking for. |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:13:00 -
[5]
In fact, I've just changed my mind.
I support Caldari changes, and missile un-nerfs, etc. If only to get it out of the way so we can have some constructive posts back on the forums.
</angry>
_______________________________
This is not the signature you are looking for. |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Jesus, shut your whining.
At least your battleships have USABLE bonuses, and not the Typhoon junk bonus/junk slot/junk everything setup we get.
As someone recently mentioned, Minmatar are far far behind the
other races in most every way. But you dont hear us hanging on every word, every sentence, and every semantic possiblity.
Work with what you got until the fix comes around. We've been doing it for ages.
Id hardly call the tempest junk. It outperforms my raven any day. Just ask Wayreth for comparisons.
So take your flame bait and topic hijacks elswhere. This is about the damage bonus to missiles and that problem has been around for quite a while. kk thanks.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 01/11/2005 15:03:55
Originally by: Tuxford
I'm changing the racial damage bonus to all damage types.
Thats from the stickied drone thread in this forum.
Tux was quick to change the racial damage bonus for drone ships to a general one after complaints. When will we see the same willingness by Tux and TomB to listen to us who have said the very same thing about the caldari ships Kinetic missile only damage bonus to most of the caldari missile ships, for example the cerebrus? No the raven has nothing to do with this so leave it out of it.
The situations are similar so why should gallente be given a perk such as this and caldari not?
Looking around myself, the only caldari ship I was able to find that has a kinetic missile bonus and doesn't have a counterpart in the other races is the caracel (and its elite version the cerberus of course), good thing you used that one for the example  .
Could be wrong but I think I remember Tuxford mentioning somewhere in the first mk 2 ships thread that he was considering making the damage bonus half to all missiles damage and half to kinetic (Note : Thermal Drones are already the most damaging, I gather they want to keep at least a little edge in kinetic damage in the missiles) Anyhow, for now I would reccomend the new Mk2 ships thread as the avenue you pursue as regards that issue (if the caracel gets the change he was considering, the cerberus likely would too after all)
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Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Hesprax
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:29:00 -
[8]
It's not as if the Gallente are getting a boosted beyond what they currently have with regards to damage, in essence the genral damage bonus will keep the damage with all types of drones as they are now. The thermal damage bonus was only on the table as a possibility not an absolute. So really the Gallente aren't getting boosted or nerfed in regards to their damage if the general damage bonus sticks rather than a thermal one ...which would actually be a nerf to the damage of all none thermal drones.
There is little point in moaning about what the Gallente do or don't have or will or wont have, especially as the changes haven't even been put on the test sever yet, to my knowledge at least.
As far as drone damage goes the status quo looks set to continue for the Gallente, so this isn't really about drones is it? ...it's just more ranting on about missiles, which we all know are having problems currently and we really don't need reminding every 10th thread.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 01/11/2005 15:03:55
Originally by: Tuxford
I'm changing the racial damage bonus to all damage types.
Tux was quick to change the racial damage bonus for drone ships to a general one after complaints.
It means what it reads: racial bonuses get changed to all damage bonuses, which applies to all races for ships that only have one damage type bonus.
So yes it applies to missiles.
@disgruntled Minmatarr pilots: stop your whining and start your own threads with your own concerns about your ships instead of hijacking others' threads. Don't be surprized if some (not necessarily Caldari) prove you wrong about how your ships suck though.
Killmails |
Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.01 15:51:00 -
[10]
The thing is the changed their mind about racial damage for drone ships to global damage bonus. Why then don't they do the same for missile ships (not only caldari ones, but also breacher and inquisitor). Anyway I don't fly them, but right now it doesn't make sense for me.
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:10:00 -
[11]
"Looking around myself, the only caldari ship I was able to find that has a kinetic missile bonus and doesn't have a counterpart in the other races is the caracel (and its elite version the cerberus of course), good thing you used that one for the example ."
Well, Caldari ships with kinetic missile damage bonus would be: Heron, post-Mk2 Condor, Kestrel, Crow, Raptor, Manticore, Caracal and Cerberus ... while the missile ships of other races get their damage-specific boosts as well, it doesn't make the basic concept any less silly and inconvenient ^^;;
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:21:00 -
[12]
Agreed. Lets change all damage bonuses to non-racial ones. Racial damage is pointless IMO.
-
Proud member of the [23].
Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
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slapp
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: slapp on 01/11/2005 16:21:35
" Originally by: Tuxford
Changing racial damage types to all damage types.
does that apply for dominix only? or for all ships? and am i the only one who sees the duality in this post of yours? "types" -> plural"
quoted from above...makes you think, doesn't it?
------------------------------------------------------
CAREBEAR, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in [b]CCP[/b |
Crellion
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Jesus, shut your whining.
At least your battleships have USABLE bonuses, and not the Typhoon junk bonus/junk slot/junk everything setup we get.
As someone recently mentioned, Minmatar are far far behind the
other races in most every way.
You dont really believe that do you????  the only ship you can take solo to 0.0 (if any)other than ceptors is a Vagabond lol. What is that Caldari??? The best sniper in game for solo AND fleet action is Tempy. What is that? Gallente?
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Keven
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Jesus, shut your whining.
At least your battleships have USABLE bonuses, and not the Typhoon junk bonus/junk slot/junk everything setup we get.
As someone recently mentioned, Minmatar are far far behind the
other races in most every way.
You dont really believe that do you???? the only ship you can take solo to 0.0 (if any)other than ceptors is a Vagabond lol. What is that Caldari??? The best sniper in game for solo AND fleet action is Tempy. What is that? Gallente?
I do not own caldari ships, nor am able to fly them, nor am willing to fly them.
Its simply ...... weird. Why should they excel only in kinetics?
gice them their 5% damage/level like the other dreads already.
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2005.11.01 16:59:00 -
[16]
Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now. In effect, the +1 drone per level and the 10% extra damage per level is the same bonus. Now close the thread.
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Spuki
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:16:00 -
[17]
My Cerberus sucks even when using kinetic missiles against a target that is vulnerable to that damage type. If assault/heavy missile launcher would do enought damage, we wouldnt need to have that discussion about damage types. Kinetic isnt that bad at all ...
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Face Ache
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Face Ache on 01/11/2005 17:17:23
I actually agree with this. One of the great things about missiles is they can be used (theoretically) for any damage type. Giving a bonus to only one damage type seems to be uneccesarily restrictive, and, well, not a really great bonus tbh. Kinetic is not a particularly great damage type either.
BTW I am a Gally and can fly tech 1 Caldari ships; I never do though (6.2 mill gunnery 4tw).
Signed.
(Edit: oops alt)
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Gerontiq
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:18:00 -
[19]
(see above)
Gerontiq
"The only thing certain about this life, is having to get up for work in the other one in the morning" |
Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
In fact, I've just changed my mind.
I support Caldari changes, and missile un-nerfs, etc. If only to get it out of the way so we can have some constructive posts back on the forums.
</angry>
:-)
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 01/11/2005 15:03:55
Originally by: Tuxford
I'm changing the racial damage bonus to all damage types.
Tux was quick to change the racial damage bonus for drone ships to a general one after complaints.
It means what it reads: racial bonuses get changed to all damage bonuses, which applies to all races for ships that only have one damage type bonus.
So yes it applies to missiles.
Unfortunately not. This quote has to be read in its context, eg. the drone thread. I really doubt it meant that he would change missile bonii too (as he didn't say anything about this in the MK2 thread).
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:37:00 -
[22]
[size=4]This is why drones gets all damage types[/size]
Caldari launchers only get kinetic bonus damage for their launchers, a heavily tanked damage type. They lost the all damage types bonus, but they still kept their fixed number of launcher slots.
Gallente drone carriesr however, lost TEN drones. The racial ship bonus of 5 drones was to be made up with the thermal damage bonus, a heavily tanked damage type.
So whereas caldari missle boats still have their 3,4,5,6,7,8 launchers; gallente do not have their 8 or 15 drones, they just had a lame damage bonus.
Friends Forever |
Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:41:00 -
[23]
Yes I totally agree we need to scrap Racial Damage entirely.
Furthermore as Ive moaned about it in other threads I might aswell continue it here. Will we see any type of EWAR Missiles. I mean Christ why should Drone users be the only ones to be able to sacrfice their Damage Output for EWAR abilities. The ones which would benefit most are the Blackbird and Scorpian, Which have very poor damage as is.If they could have missiles which worked as ECM Projectors,Webbers and all the other new abilities drones are getting it would increase the usfulness of the ships greatly.
Not only that but ships like the Cerberus which have to dedicate nearly all of its Mid slots to a poor tank would find giving up a single launcher slot to disrupt the targets Turrets or Web its target a massive help to the ship.
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Gierling
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Posted - 2005.11.01 17:46:00 -
[24]
I'm Gallente and I support giving the Caldari an all around damage bonus.
For those ships that will be recieving two damage bonii, you can have the kinetic changed to all around, and one changed to ROF.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:26:00 -
[25]
Can Amarr get Kinetic and Explosive lasers then? mmkay cheers thanks 
Real men, play Rugby |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 18:27:33
Fine. I take it that the 10% bonus is being changed to 5%, Tux?
Versatility means you must do lower overall damage. Period. Same goes for missiles. You get all damage types, you get half the bonus.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Forsch
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:30:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Forsch on 01/11/2005 18:29:59
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 18:27:33
Fine. I take it that the 10% bonus is being changed to 5%, Tux?
Versatility means you must do lower overall damage.
Not really. With the 10% bonus the drones do exactely the dmg they did before the changes (correct me if I'm wrong. think I read that somewhere in this thread). Why should the damage be lowered? I don't think drones are subject of 'nerfage' in terms of damage.
The Auctoritan Syndicate
Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:31:00 -
[28]
because the caldari didnt whine as loud as the gallente against the nerf
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Forsch
Edited by: Forsch on 01/11/2005 18:29:59
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 18:27:33
Fine. I take it that the 10% bonus is being changed to 5%, Tux?
Versatility means you must do lower overall damage.
Not really. With the 10% bonus the drones do exactely the dmg they did before the changes (correct me if I'm wrong. think I read that somewhere in this thread). Why should the damage be lowered? I don't think drones are subject of 'nerfage' in terms of damage.
Up to 7% less actually depending on skills.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 18:27:33
Fine. I take it that the 10% bonus is being changed to 5%, Tux?
Versatility means you must do lower overall damage. Period. Same goes for missiles. You get all damage types, you get half the bonus.
If it sticks at 10% the Dominix will do the same DPS as it does today. Regardless of drones used (as long as the comparison is new vs old with same setup)
Drone A doesn't do the same damage as Drone B as long as Drone A and Drone B isn't the same drone. I.e. if Berserker does 100 damage, the Ogre does 125 damage.
How's that for "less damage if more versetile"?
Oh, and stop griefing one weapon type just because you feel your own is inadequate.
To get missiles to a point of equality to drones, there needs to be more done than just blanket missiles for +5% to all damage. Although I am not against Gallente assault ships getting +40% resistance to all, though, instead of their current resistances...
Right. So now we need to balance missiles so they, too, can get a +5% bonus to all without removing racial dmg |
dalman
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Posted - 2005.11.01 18:40:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 18:27:33
Fine. I take it that the 10% bonus is being changed to 5%, Tux?
Versatility means you must do lower overall damage. Period. Same goes for missiles. You get all damage types, you get half the bonus.
Hi!
10% means that the ship will do the same damage as before (provided you have interfacing 5).
Which is the whole point.
Same DPS, but with less drones.
And that's exactly how it works for the other races ships too.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Magunus
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Posted - 2005.11.01 19:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 01/11/2005 15:03:55
Originally by: Tuxford
I'm changing the racial damage bonus to all damage types.
Thats from the stickied drone thread in this forum.
Tux was quick to change the racial damage bonus for drone ships to a general one after complaints. When will we see the same willingness by Tux and TomB to listen to us who have said the very same thing about the caldari ships Kinetic missile only damage bonus to most of the caldari missile ships, for example the cerebrus? No the raven has nothing to do with this so leave it out of it.
The situations are similar so why should gallente be given a perk such as this and caldari not?
I agree that the Cerberus in particular (and any other ship that gets a bonus to a single damage type, except perhaps the stealth bombers) needs a boost, particularly given the boosts that have been on Sisi for a while (increased shields, armor, resists, etc). Cerberus has a tough time doing enough damage to kill anything now, let alone after this patch goes in. The changes benefit the defense of the Cerberus also, but making it tougher won't make it more much better, IMO.
Actually, besides changing the ship bonuses, I still think that light and heavy missiles themselves still need a boost.
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Anjerrai Meloanis
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Posted - 2005.11.01 22:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Anjerrai Meloanis on 01/11/2005 22:09:55
missiles travel at 7km/s on a cerberus, drones travel at 500m/s, whats your problem?
uh.
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HelterSkelter
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Posted - 2005.11.01 22:24:00 -
[34]
a new setup with 5 drones is the same as an old setup with 15 drones.
.
.
.
except there are new skills and mod's. People seem to forget this fact.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.11.01 22:31:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 22:34:07
Originally by: dalman
Why shouldn't I compare the bonus on my Dominix with the bonus on my Raven
So you don't object to the smaller ships getting a thermal-specalised bonus? Equality, if you want it, must be EQUAL of course.
I'm all for racial damage bonuses, incidentally. If you want to be versatile, you have to pay for it in absolute damage. It's what Minmatar have been told from the beginning of Eve, so now we're telling that to YOU.
There are other compensations that Gallente should have. Drone bays which are only cut by 1/3 rather than 1/2, perhaps. Certainly that'd give them more versatility to fit a range of damage and EW drones for various situations.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.01 22:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Anjerrai Meloanis
Edited by: Anjerrai Meloanis on 01/11/2005 22:09:55
missiles travel at 7km/s on a cerberus, drones travel at 500m/s, whats your problem?
While fighting several ennemies (which are often quite close to each other), drones only need 1-2s to go to the next target, being only 2km from it, missiles still need to travel all the way from the launching ship.
Once drones are on a target, they don't need to travel the distance for each attack, missiles do need to travel the distance each time.
Oh, and missile boats using kinetic missiles and BCUs do less DPS than drone boats using only drones
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.11.02 03:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Pharuan
Because for missiles it was a bonus. For the drones, it is just keeping them up to par with the damage that they do now.
Not really.
Well, not at all, in fact.
Without that supposed 'bonus', missiles are crap, reason why the Raven, for example, gets a RoF bonus, which is decent on a Raven and horrible on a Hawk, mind you.
So, while drones can deal all 4 damage types for full damage, on top of their other weapons, the missile ships with kinetic bonus can only deal those damage types with sacrifying from their already low damage output.
I can understand Amarr complaining they only deal 2 damage types, while they have other advantages, but Gallente as well as Matari have 4 damage types.
The change to the MK2 Kestrel is good on that respect and should apply to all missile ships with only one damage type.
Nobody would complain, it's not like kinetic only missile ships are exactly feared
Killmails |
Malacore
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Posted - 2005.11.02 03:41:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Malacore on 02/11/2005 03:41:59
Now, forgive me if this has been brought up, but I was under the impression that...
Technically by making the drone damage bonuses universal NOTHING is changing for ANY drone ship - drone ships will be able to put out the same ammount of damage as they were before which, i beleive, was the original goal.
The caldari kinetic bonus has always been just that, a bonus... it actually changes the ammount of raw damage output.
EDIT: and wow i should read more.
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HelterSkelter
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Posted - 2005.11.02 04:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malacore
Edited by: Malacore on 02/11/2005 03:41:59
Now, forgive me if this has been brought up, but I was under the impression that...
Technically by making the drone damage bonuses universal NOTHING is changing for ANY drone ship - drone ships will be able to put out the same ammount of damage as they were before which, i beleive, was the original goal.
The caldari kinetic bonus has always been just that, a bonus... it actually changes the ammount of raw damage output.
EDIT: and wow i should read more.
wrong.
a drone ship will put out the same dmg pre and post drone patch. Then the drone ship finds one of those new dmg mods. guess what, his drone dmg just went up. then said drone pilot buys some new drone skill. Guess what....his range, armor, and dmg just went up.
im not trying to single malacore out but this 'false' information has been repeated ad nausium and people think its a fact now. rereading the orignal posts by tux will show this
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.11.02 08:54:00 -
[40]
Kinetic only bonus on Caracal / Cerberus should be changed to affect all dmg types again, simply cause the dmg output is horrible on these ships compared to their equivalent. Especially Cerberus
Victuri te Salutant |
Vlad Karamazov
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Posted - 2005.11.02 09:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: HelterSkelter
wrong.
a drone ship will put out the same dmg pre and post drone patch. Then the drone ship finds one of those new dmg mods. guess what, his drone dmg just went up. then said drone pilot buys some new drone skill. Guess what....his range, armor, and dmg just went up.
im not trying to single malacore out but this 'false' information has been repeated ad nausium and people think its a fact now. rereading the orignal posts by tux will show this
A drone ship using a module to boost their DPS. Wow they should give simmilar module to the missiles. A module that makes missile damage biger. hmmm... something like ..... wait a sec there is one already in game .
About the other things. Most of the things been asked for many times on the forums. EW , web , reapers , boosters all of them. And the great thing is you can use them on your raven too. Some ships do not have drone bay , most do. Most ships can use the changes - unlike missiles.
Any drone EW/armour reping done by Domi means coniderably less damage output - so there is build in balance there too.
About the actual thread topic - 10% = no change (or very small negative change with some skill combinations) in drone damage. Thats it. No more no less.
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Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.11.02 09:45:00 -
[42]
The 10% bonus to damage per level on drone carrier specialists like Dominix is replacing the +1 drone controlled bonus which when drone skills are maxed is an effective 10% increase per level.
The issue with 10% to racial damage type and even with 10% to all damage types is that does not truely reflect the current bonus the bonus should be 10% bonus to the effect of drones in space.
The would allow drone carriers to excel at using logistic drones mining drones and ew drones as well as combat drones. 10% to all damage types is getting close but 10% to racial damage was unacceptable.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
dalman
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Posted - 2005.11.02 10:07:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 22:34:07
Originally by: dalman
Why shouldn't I compare the bonus on my Dominix with the bonus on my Raven
So you don't object to the smaller ships getting a thermal-specalised bonus? Equality, if you want it, must be EQUAL of course.
I'm all for racial damage bonuses, incidentally. If you want to be versatile, you have to pay for it in absolute damage. It's what Minmatar have been told from the beginning of Eve, so now we're telling that to YOU.
There are other compensations that Gallente should have. Drone bays which are only cut by 1/3 rather than 1/2, perhaps. Certainly that'd give them more versatility to fit a range of damage and EW drones for various situations.
Actually,
I never really complained about the racial.
It meant a nerf to my dominix damage output compared to today, but the possibility to carry 3 sets instead of 2, as well as more HP which is good vs smartbombing tempests (which is the only ship I fear 1vs1), kinda made it even.
However, the racial bonus made this change really favour some ships. Namely the ones with big drone bays but no drone bonus. Ie Typhoon, geddon, thron. To them this change would only be a boost.
Like I said though, the dominix bonus (racial or not) should be compared to the raven, right?
Well, no, I don't mind if the smaller ships gets racial bonus.
And your comments about Minmatar... I don't get it at all. The tempest is the best BS in the game in my opinion
And ppl seem to enjoy the vagabond and the T2 frigs.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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