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The official : $^%# BM's, I %^&$ing HATE them thread...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
BurnHard	Posted - 2005.11.02 14:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Nero Scuro His point was that a battleship should not move as fast as an interceptor, combat or no. It doesn't. A battleship is a lot slower than an interceptor, especially aligning for warp on the other side of a gate. If you want to nerf setups, you will give the defender a huge advantage as all of the attackers will have to take the penalty for faster travel to your homeland. What you are suggesting will cause a REDUCTION in PvP, not an increase. Originally by: Nero Scuro And bubbles only help campers. Force all PvPers to use them and you force people to camp even more. Do you like camps? I don't. I prefer to hunt, and be hunted. I think more should be done to stop camping; You've just had an attack of logic, only you didn't quite hit the sweet spot. Making people travel 1km, 2km, 4km, 10km to a gate increases the possibility that a gate camp will form there. Why? Because you have longer to target and take pot shots at the victim. Hell, I'm generally a carebear and even I'd start gate camping if that were the case. Sheeesh. If you want to remove gate camping, I'm afraid you have to remove gates.
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.11.02 14:36:00 - [32] I wish someone would do something about instas if only to stop the neverending bloody river of threads about the damn things. What's more it's usually the same people arguing the toss about them. Over and over and over and over again. Some of you must surely be as bored of the 'discussion' (hah! Discussion! If you can call an endless circular argument a discussion) as I am? Just remove bookmarking from the game entirely and ban anyone that complains! We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at stars. (Sig best viewed with Firefox)
Larshus Magrus	Posted - 2005.11.02 14:44:00 - [33] I have to agree. Bookmarks suck. I spent ALL of my play time last night copying the damn things also. They are slow as hell to copy (why btw? The operation should be ultra fast with the new DB back end), they make no real logical sense, and most importantly, they are an affront to all things natural! Make skills, modules, ship stats all effect jump in and jump out points. Do something. Do it NOW. Please for the love of all thats good RELEASE me from this bookmark hell.
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.11.02 14:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Sadist What I find amusing is that no one has offered a good enough alternative or reason for removing instas... Man I've seen so many viable/ interesting/ wonderfull propositions to replace instas that I can't try to open my P&P anymore without crying some confused rivers Ah and a hatefull signage on the topic /me goes looking for her daily anti-alts thread now...
Razin	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:12:00 - [35] Originally by: BurnHard Bookmarks would not be required if we just had a 2km jump in and fixes to bubble use if people want to "trap" others. IJ bookmarks would not be required if we had jumpdrives instead of gates. This would also sort gate ganking and all sorts of other gameplay anomalies.
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:22:00 - [36] I love BM's, They save me so much time now that high ways are gone.
kcahn	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Sadist Originally by: RandomPpl Blah-bla-bla, I hate instas What I find amusing is that no one has offered a good enough alternative or reason for removing instas...Hell, travel is too boring with BM's, and you want to remove em? Welcome to Eve-Online: Moving from point A to B edition... travel is far too long without bmn's, and the rate of griefing by gate campers would escelate and cause to many subscribtions to be canceled. insta's are the player created defense to gate camping griefers, remove gate camping at all gates, and you can remove insta's (time limit to stay around a gate or you get flagged as a criminal)
Akilah Ashaki	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:38:00 - [38] I hate them ! and all my alts does too !
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2005.11.02 15:41:00 - [39] lol i dont like them but the thought of traveling 20 jumps no BM just annoy the crap out of me. for 0.0 its a pain when they have BM but use a bubble then in 0.0 to catch them but higher sec then i have no probelm. 'Invictus maneo' Remain unvanquished
Xaviar Onassis	Posted - 2005.11.02 16:08:00 - [40] Hmm, see, the think I like most about Eve is the choice. I've read a lot of posts from people complaining about the performance, administration and utility of bookmarks, and repeatedly expressed opinions about their summary removal. Here's a Top Tip (tm): Rather than wait for CCP to remove them, simply open up your P&P screen, hit Ctrl-A, right-click and Delete them all... That way, those of us that like to use them (I find the very useful for mining, for example) can continue to do so, happy in the knowledge that the contribution to lag from bookmarks is going down all the time as all the other people on this thread remove their hated instas. Personally, i don't use them for long trips, preferring instead to rely on forum-browsing or the reading of a good book. I'm not sure if it's the same in Eve, but back in the day when I used to play Earth & Beyond, and people used to complain about the time it took to warp long trips, it was pointed out that gate-jumping adds load to the servers, and higher-speed jumping would add more load than the servers could cope with. Why not just accept the extra time as a "cost" for long-distance travel, or invest in a MWD for multi-hop journeys?
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.11.02 16:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Akilah Ashaki I hate them ! and all my alts does too ! but I still love you my dear !
Kingpenn	Posted - 2005.11.02 16:18:00 - [42] insta's are the counter to gate camping griefers, remove both or neither the answer is...42.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Kingpenn insta's are the counter to gate camping griefers, remove both or neither No, instas are a way to avoid having to come up with a counter to 'gate camping griefers'. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kamenwati	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:33:00 - [44] It doesn't really matter if we love or hate insta's or BM's in general, eventually CCP will have no choice but to eliminate them. It's just a matter of when, and what they replace them with. So as much as I hate BM's I use them knowing that eventually they will be gone. If the method they implement to replace them is as fast or faster for gate-to-gate travel than using instas then the people complaining about BM removal will be drowned out by the overwhelming majority of people whose gameplay just got better. An added benefit of making travel between systems faster will be people starting to spread out more. Travel should never have been a gigantic timesink - correct the original mistake at the same time that BM's are removed.
XYjen	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:42:00 - [45] 2 cents AGAIN Instas in and of themselves are not evil. The mass proliferation that leads to P&Ps that take 5 minutes to load is. Make instas like BPs - if it COSTS something to copy them, and it is impossible to copy a copy, the proliferation stops. To get a copyable BM, you HAVE to make it yourself. If yer buddy wants a copy, you pay yer 300k for a lab slot (for EACH insta) and make some. Few would have the patience to play lab shuffle with these ridiculous cans full of instas, but on routes you run frequently, it would still pay off long term. The million bookmark folders being resorted at every gate in are the lag devils. What to do about the gozillion BMs already in folders? Wipe em out - across the board. Buttpain for some? Absolutely; but it won't be the first or last time we have to "start again" on something we have gotten used to. (and maybe the covert market would rally a bit ) If instas ruin your gate camping party, either invest in bubbles or realize that yer camping the wrong side of the gate and adjust accordingly. Without bubbles, the small, fast ships are gonna get through yer net - accept it and move on. Everyone just seems to want a solution that makes it easier for THEM to play in their comfort zone, and harder for their foe. Don't we all? Or... just add more modules and skills to train. That'll fix it - it has fixed everything else. (Hasn't it?) Hell hath no fury ....
fairimear	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:43:00 - [46] instas are a love hate thing. we all love to use em but we all hate trying to pvp with people using them. Please resize your signature image, the filesize limit is 24,000 bytes - Imaran
Takitoo	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:49:00 - [47] I don't like them either. There's better solutions.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.11.02 17:53:00 - [48] Originally by: fairimear instas are a love hate thing. we all love to use em but we all hate trying to pvp with people using them. No, we all have to use them, whether we like them or not. I hate using them, and I hate other people using them. Facing somebody who uses instas, whether you have them yourself or not, is a ******* pain. ___ forum whoring -
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sadist Originally by: RandomPpl Blah-bla-bla, I hate instas What I find amusing is that no one has offered a good enough alternative or reason for removing instas...Hell, travel is too boring with BM's, and you want to remove em? Welcome to Eve-Online: Moving from point A to B edition... So my suggestion in the linked thread is no good, even though it makes it possible to insta from gate-to-gate on autopilot? What the hell would make you happy? Their eventually to be implemented, "risk free eve-online, massivly boring multiplayer online game". UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Thomas Torquemada	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Wanoah I wish someone would do something about instas if only to stop the neverending bloody river of threads about the damn things. What's more it's usually the same people arguing the toss about them. Over and over and over and over again. Some of you must surely be as bored of the 'discussion' (hah! Discussion! If you can call an endless circular argument a discussion) as I am? Just remove bookmarking from the game entirely and ban anyone that complains! Sounds like a plan, remoev the lot, then no singular party benefits, seeing as pvpers/haulers/carebears/agent runners/pirates (LOL! sorry, i always krack up hearing the pirate word, keep forgetting theres no such thing) all use them. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Helplessandlost	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:10:00 - [51] How about we remove all the worthless can clutter first? That in itself would eliminate much of the lag me thinks... Also making everyone make their own BM's sounds like a great idea to slow down the proliferation of these things but to nuke those that we now have no. Seem to remember something about infinite run BPO copies just recently being nerfed? Same should happen to existing BM's after a great deal of time they eventually expire. Check us out
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:32:00 - [52] I don't like instas. For a long time I didn't use them. I do now. Speeding up travel I'm not too worried about. After all, I still think removing the highways was a positive move. (although I'll admit _having_ to traverse a long way for a low demand item is fairly annoying) I also think a 'fast' hauler should have value over a 'big' hauler. Or at least be reasonably comparable. And battleships on instas move _way_ too fast. The reason I use them, is because of exposure in a hostile system. You'd be an idiot not to. Especially when 'everyone else' is. I won't cry on the day they go. But until then, I'll still use 'em for running camps.
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:36:00 - [53] I hate them, for making points in space for tactical advantage fair play they are good, for travel it sucks. Having skills and low modules determine how close to the gate you land is the way to go. I will be so happy when they go if that was the case. El Presedente Anti Pirate? Tired of sec hits? Join us for free wars!
Lester Mako	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:41:00 - [54] Edited by: Lester Mako on 02/11/2005 18:42:35 If it were not for Insta-Jump BM, I wouldn't play Eve. Eve the way it is now is an logistical nightmare. You have to jump 10j for toilet paper, 13j for a toilet, and another 8j for the skill to ****. Its insane! I would rather see travel in Eve more like Star Trek. If you want to go to another solar system it takes X number of minutes to get there. You come out of warp when you reach the system and have to make quick warp jumps to move around in system, BUT YOU CANNOT WARP THRU PLANETS....uh hello. You should be able to engage your warp engines for specific time periods. Star gates are only there because of the limitations of moving from one area in the database to another. Miner, Seller of Minerals, Father
Paladine Tor	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:45:00 - [55] I really hate these. Instas are by far the worst part of EVE. I use them and make them because I have to, not because I want to. They should be replaced by a skill and/or modules. For example: Make it impossible to create a bookmark within 25km of a station or gate. skills ---- Jump Gate Location - Accuracy in warp navigation to jump gates. No training gives +/- 25 km accuracy, lvl 5 gives +/- 5 km accuracy. Station Location - same as above but for warping to stations Stellar Object Location - same as above but warping to bookmarks (remember gates and stations can't be BMed). Same ranges as the other two skills but this is for things like safespots, cans, and anything else that is not a station or gate and has been bookmarked. modules ---- small/medium/large Navigational Computer - this module allows you to warp to 3 km from jump gates. It requires a lot of cpu though so any ship using it would be weak. piloting changes ---- Jump-in points would become random. You would still have to approach a jumpgate to leave a system, but when you entered a new system, it would take you to a random place on the map. Also locating people in safe spots and attacking them would be made easier. new items ---- Tripwire Beacons - These could be deployed in low security systems. You anchor them whereever and they send an alert to a pilot whenever someone comes within x kilometers of them. You could set these up around stations or gates to help you track someone down you are looking for in the system. They would have batteries which would last for 15 minutes, and a new beacon wuold have to be deployed when the battery runs out. (the old beacon self-destructs after 15 mins) Limpet Mines - these work just like the ones in Trade Wars. They tell you were a person is once they attach to his ship when he goes past them. This would make bounty hunting a realistic career choice in EVE.
jbob2000	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:47:00 - [56] ****
EndersGame	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:50:00 - [57] I always found the use of "##($#" to signify a bad word quite intresting. I find it somewhat ironic that we can substitute #(#$ for a foul word instead of "saying" it out loud. But does it not still convey the same meaning? Ie in our minds we say this word out loud. If the objective of censorship is to prevent these words from being registered then why allow other characters to convey the same meaning? After all a rose by any other name is still a rose so why should this topic heading be allowed? Just another of lifes intresting questions i ponder about social guidelines...
Lester Mako	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:50:00 - [58] Good ideas, I remember when jump-in points were nearly random. Miner, Seller of Minerals, Father
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2005.11.02 18:56:00 - [59] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Kalixa Hihro Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 02/11/2005 12:39:23 I hate gate insta's. says the pirate. Screw that. I bet all of you are either gate campers or live in empire. I have a 39 jump gauntlet through some nasty territory to get back and forth to empire from my 0.0 home. It'd be suicide without instas... It takes an hour with instas, you want it to take 3-4 hours? I'll quit before I eat that one. The lag is caused by 50-400 people being in system and all the drones. Don't kid yourself. Try spreading out a little beyond Oursulaert or Jita. The problem with instas is you can copy and sell them. This leads to billions of them. I make all my own, and I'll be mighty p***ed if they remove them from the game. The solution is to not let these freaks copy them willy nilly. Remove the ability to copy them out of the bookmarks window(and sell them, give them away), and you will solve the problem. l8, Kal If you had bothered to read the linked thread you would understand how pathetic your post sounds. It contains suggested replacements to the current system, not a rant on how they should be ditched with no compromise.
Professor McFly	Posted - 2005.11.02 20:38:00 - [60] Edited by: Professor McFly on 02/11/2005 20:38:25 /signed Instas need to die. I'd rather see a "warp to 1km" option for autopilot.

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