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Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
70
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 14:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Braldt Ironeye wrote: You've gone from yourself waiting for the module, to your friend waiting for you to 1.) finish doing the mini-game, 2.) hoping it doesn't blow up in your face, and 3.) hoping the boxes don't fly off in the wrong direction, simply so they can double click flying little blips.
End result, someone is still ends up waiting.
Sorry, but the argument of 'just bring a friend to gather the boxes" doesn't fly.
Wrong. Your friend is watching Local, D-Scan, and smacktalking you to be faster at hacking.
Thats not "waiting". Also if you got good skills at hacking the process of hacking a can takes only approx. 30 seconds. While you are hacking your friend can position himself at the other site of the can so you won't loose any scattered cans. |

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
314
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
I found it hard to believe that the mag/radar sites could have gotten worse than they were for so long.
I was wrong. Not today spaghetti. |

Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
22
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:I agree the clicking in nullsec sites is extreme. I wrote in the test forum they should go for smaller grid where more time is spent on thinking about strategic moves instead.
Your loot average sounds pretty low to me tho. I think you missed out on a lot of goodies because you have to get used to the loot spew first and learn which cans to chose.
After speaking to a few more people about it I think you're right. Even so, it's still not *much* at all compared to what it used to be. Also making it more strategic would be brilliant! Much less frustrating and just pure spammy because of how luck-based the current system is.
As for the 6bil nightmare/loki combo... yeah it was completely OTT :P But that was the point! I enjoyed having a stupidly expensive ship when a single drake or frigate would suffice. |

Lord Valian
The Forgotten Navy Gentlemen's Agreement
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Well I dont have a problem with the new mini-game, I think its pretty interesting, I have to say that the loot on data sites really SUCK. I'm also living in 0.0 - I mean while the relic sites are usually alright to do, the data sites are just not worth the hassle.. they are so f**** bad.
Seriously.. how fun is it to loot 200 "Data Cans" only to find 500 ISK data charts in them?? You think I do this **** in 0.0 to find data 1x data charts per can?
Also, if you add these worthless power couplings that take upp all my ships cargo as well, so in the middle of a can drop I have to jettison c*ap in order to be able to pick up the rest, which probably have despawned by then anyway. |

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
From what I read and watched about this new feature I can quite understand the authors frustration. Eve always was a game where a good plan was worth more than a fast triggerfinger. This new minigame doesnt feel very Eve-ish at all and my enthusiasm frantically clicking disappearing cans ins space is nigh zero. Worse if the outcome is negligible. For the gain this novelty promises no advanced player would use it. There is faster and easier ways to gain ISK in Eve. So its a feature for new players without a lot of experience and skills? Well okay... But really, is this actually the best Eve experience for a new player? Probably not.
Maybe CCP should go back to the drawing board. Yay 10 years! :D |

Korban Askiras
Character Purchase
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Please keep hacking just the way it is now. It means less people doing it, and more for me.
Sincerely, Lots of players. |

Korban Askiras
Character Purchase
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 17:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Korban Askiras wrote: You watch, in the coming weeks, there will be sites with data popping up on fansites that list numbers of Firewalls in each pattern, Utilities, etc. When that happens (like it did with Anoms, Wormholes, everything else "grind" related), you will see that your 70,000 clicks is highly exaggerated.
To whit: http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution |

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 17:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Well there are also people who enjoy planetary interaction. One shouldnt be surprised...  Yay 10 years! :D |

Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
25
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 17:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Korban Askiras wrote:Dear CCP,
Please keep hacking just the way it is now. It means less people doing it, and more for me.
Sincerely, Lots of players.
So funny; surprisingly enough you're not the only person who has an understanding of economics...
I agree with what Azure said, more to the point it's not about reactions, because even if you find the right can and click it - regardless of its distance from you it still takes the same amount of time to 'tractor' beam it to your ship. If you do them whilst dualboxing (like I've been doing) it doesn't mean you can't get almost if not all of the cans. My problem lies with how little skill/planning/effort there is to the hacking minigame other than just spamming click with very little forethought.
|

Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
189
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 20:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Is it possible with the new expansion released and everybody running around doing the new content (before they get bored of it and go back to ship spinning) is burning through the loot tables and maybe all the good stuff is gone? If that's the case, in a few weeks the loot should get better for the people with the patience to keep trying. |

Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1129
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 21:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
I gotta say, I did a high sec data site today in a .8 system. Made 15 mill in loot. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Kijimea
Mulors
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
I am pretty new to exploration. Did it a few times before here and there. I love hacking, i love the cans and i am pretty happy with my loot. Found abt 250million isk in the past 2 1/2 hours. Yesterday the same, about 150mil in ~2hours. I didnt count my clicks oO but the income is great, the game is great and with decent skills easy to do ( i rarely fail twice ) etc.
Happy exploring. |

Devok Jumarin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Korban Askiras wrote: I am sick and tired of hearing people on channels and the forums griping about how CCP is making everything "HARD". Wahhh!!!!! You just want to warp in, open a can and collect 100M and warp out. But everyone else should have to work for it, right? Miners? PVPers?
How about making it too easy? Instead of :
1) Casing out several systems for tempting sites, the whole launch probes and see what this previously bland system might have hiding in pockets of space.
2) Changing ships to something that can handle the rats & enemies (FW lowsec is rife with them) or investing in something that could fit a cloak, probe launcher, salvager, analyzer, codebreaker & still fight.
3) Roll the dice and get anything from an empty can to a 200 mil bounty (But get everything that was there)
Challenging, fun, easy to get into with minimal SP if you keep your tactics on point.
Yes, the 'did it work?' loading bar was very... bleh..... Interactive random chance is better than click and wait random chance? I think so, others may disagree. Trading some of the randomness for skill based decision making would win many people over methinks.
Now we have :
1) Skills? We have modules for that.
2) Here you go, let CCP point out everything for you to make it extra easy, we don't want to make you actually find the general locations of those sites by yourself, it's too hard.
3) Get in that T1 ship and free roam wherever you wish. No rats, so just fit a cloak and don't worry about having to actually engage in any danger for that ISK.
4) Play a mini-game (ok with that mostly, figure they will improve on it) and hope that that loot you had your heart set on when CCP was kind enough to let you know what goodies are in there actually winds up in your cargo hold.
Or wait, you can
5) Have a friend sit in a site, with no rats to clear, while you play the mini-game. From his/her/its perspective, isn't that a bit the same as sitting space waiting for a loading bar to magically 'unlock' the can?
I liked the first one. I like probing and I enjoyed the challenge of probing out the good spots to run, having my logistics in place to allow running the site in a PvP capable ship (who doesn't like the pewpew?) and getting all the goods back to my main hanger after a week or so of exploring a new branch of that fabulous starmap.
Exploration. I liked it a lot, I liked the challenges and rewards of it a lot. Now not so much, which makes me sad 
I know, poor me. But please don't assume everyone complaining about the new mechanics wants an easy button. It seems like CCP is already halfway there and getting closer. |

Famine Aligher'ri
2 Girls - 1 Corp I Know Right
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
I made 100mill in 4 hours, but a lot of that was trial and error too. Famine Aligher'ri Master Pirate
http://www.twitch.tv/tehfamine http://www.twitter.com/tehfamine |

Famine Aligher'ri
2 Girls - 1 Corp I Know Right
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Correction, I made 152 million last night. This is not including the BPC's. Famine Aligher'ri Master Pirate
http://www.twitch.tv/tehfamine http://www.twitter.com/tehfamine |

Cypher Decypher
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Tribal Band
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 01:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
There are ways to make solo exploration of relic sites (not so much radars) reasonably efficient. Think out of the box. Experiment and ye shall be rewarded...
That said, my time running mags & radars in Period Basis over the last two days can't shine a light against dual-boxing Sanctums in a pair of Domis with Garde II's pushing out a combined 1640dps to over 90km optimal.
Hoo ha. |

Judas Lonestar
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Faife wrote:I like the part where CCP owes you a simple easy way to fund 3 accounts for free.
I like the part where you think its in CCPs best interest to make it difficult for players to have multiple accounts. |

Dawn Harbinger
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 03:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Staavross wrote: THE ENTIRE POINT of EVE is to have fun. Not accessible to everyone but FUN and as accessible to everyone it can be whilst still being FUN.
This new mechanic is not FUN in any way. It is horrible repetitive and frustrating because of how luck and click intensive it is. Sure it's accessible. But no-one wants to ride the free, accessible ****** bus if you just get repeatedly poked in the eye whilst you ride it.
I've been having a ton of fun with hacking actually. I can understand why you would be upset that your specific style of gameplay changed, but that happens a lot on this game. Was the old system "more fun" or just "better-isk"? These changes have introduced a new gameplay element that a lot of people are enjoying...i f you can't get into it- move on! |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
661
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kordran Ke'Azir wrote:Sorry, but if you're only getting 4 cans, you suck the balls.
I'm averaging 6 with 7 occasionally attainable.
I've not worked out the full amount gained yet, but I've pulled about 70 mill in T2 salvage alone (from 10 sites)
Stop grabbing the scrap cans, you scrub and go for all the others.
Also, stop bitching about something new that you clearly don't know how to use properly yet.
Dude you SO win at eve. only 50,000 clicks for a PLEX? Sign me up pronto.
/derp
From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |

Famine Aligher'ri
2 Girls - 1 Corp I Know Right
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Just got my first tech II drop!!
Still well worth it tonight. 100M + 3 BPC's + Tech II Shield (EM) BPC Famine Aligher'ri Master Pirate
http://www.twitch.tv/tehfamine
http://www.twitter.com/tehfamine |

Signal11th
The Retirement Club
981
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 10:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Korban Askiras wrote:Well, I have a problem with people complaining about new features that "break my fun".
They removed rats from the Exploration/Data sites, you can do it in a Heron now, cheaply. The fact that it makes it non-elite for you and your 6Bill ship is irrelevant.
I am sick and tired of hearing people on channels and the forums griping about how CCP is making everything "HARD". Wahhh!!!!! You just want to warp in, open a can and collect 100M and warp out. But everyone else should have to work for it, right? Miners? PVPers?
Nobody is complaing they are making things hard, they complain because CCP just make things take longer to complete, after all this is a game and you want to have fun right?
Most people use PVE to pay for PVP and like myself I hate grinding isk to have fun, everytime people find a nice quick way to make cash CCP just "balance" it so it takes 25% longder to do.
I don't use a "infinity isk carrier/tengu and lvl 5 all my skills" to feel safe I do it to save time, so when CCP tell me that that 700million days I just spent shaving 0.4 seconds off my wing mirrors deploying now take 30 seconds longer you can see why people get annoyed. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
471
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 16:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Korban Askiras wrote:Well, I have a problem with people complaining about new features that "break my fun".
They removed rats from the Exploration/Data sites, you can do it in a Heron now, cheaply. The fact that it makes it non-elite for you and your 6Bill ship is irrelevant.
I am sick and tired of hearing people on channels and the forums griping about how CCP is making everything "HARD". Wahhh!!!!! You just want to warp in, open a can and collect 100M and warp out. But everyone else should have to work for it, right? Miners? PVPers? Nobody is complaing they are making things hard, they complain because CCP just make things take longer to complete, after all this is a game and you want to have fun right? Most people use PVE to pay for PVP and like myself I hate grinding isk to have fun, everytime people find a nice quick way to make cash CCP just "balance" it so it takes 25% longder to do. I don't use a "infinity isk carrier/tengu and lvl 5 all my skills" to feel safe I do it to save time, so when CCP tell me that that 700million days I just spent shaving 0.4 seconds off my wing mirrors deploying now take 30 seconds longer you can see why people get annoyed.
THe real question is was it ever meant to be as good money as it was before or did they just fix what they never got to fix before? |

Roy Kring
Bad Security. Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
24
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 02:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
I support this fully. The new update was a complete disaster and exploration is now a mere shadow of what it was, and im absolutely dumbfounded that CCP though that can spewing mechanics were a good idea. |

Signal11th
The Retirement Club
981
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 09:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Signal11th wrote:Korban Askiras wrote:Well, I have a problem with people complaining about new features that "break my fun".
They removed rats from the Exploration/Data sites, you can do it in a Heron now, cheaply. The fact that it makes it non-elite for you and your 6Bill ship is irrelevant.
I am sick and tired of hearing people on channels and the forums griping about how CCP is making everything "HARD". Wahhh!!!!! You just want to warp in, open a can and collect 100M and warp out. But everyone else should have to work for it, right? Miners? PVPers? Nobody is complaing they are making things hard, they complain because CCP just make things take longer to complete, after all this is a game and you want to have fun right? Most people use PVE to pay for PVP and like myself I hate grinding isk to have fun, everytime people find a nice quick way to make cash CCP just "balance" it so it takes 25% longder to do. I don't use a "infinity isk carrier/tengu and lvl 5 all my skills" to feel safe I do it to save time, so when CCP tell me that that 700million days I just spent shaving 0.4 seconds off my wing mirrors deploying now take 30 seconds longer you can see why people get annoyed. THe real question is was it ever meant to be as good money as it was before or did they just fix what they never got to fix before?
Not really the point though is it? Who likes being told that the job they started was paying 30 grand a year but because of an administrative error your wage will be dropped to 27k a year.
I'm just tired of specialising skills and ships to save time but because I'm perceived to be getting too much of an advantage I keep getting stuff introduced that negates that time I have saved and usually have the time actually added on by CCP for doing this. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |

Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
33
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Regardless of whether the old mechanic was 'broken' or not - any new mechanic will get compared to its predecessor.
Old mechanic:
-Considerably more effort finding sites via probing. -Having to fight off rats/deal with locked cans etc. -Having to wait a while for it to complete (actually gave purpose to the choice of T3 vs frigate since the new frigate buff to cycle time of analyzers + codebreakers)
New mechanic:
-Ridonkulously click-intensive -More fun/interesting for one character but any other character is just sitting there waiting, not even rats to shoot! -Next to 0 restrictions to entry - probing is basically done for you ala the new patch, no rats to kill so no combat skills/mods needed, also means a t1 frigate is going to be the obvious choice since you can move between cans/sites faster and less likely to be decloaked on a gate or something, minigame is largely luck based (beyond a couple of very simple rules) -Significantly reduced value overall (Adding together chance to complete, number of cans ejected, whether you picked the right cans)
I don't know about you but that just doesn't look like a fun direction. Anyone saying the new mechanic is fun, tell me how many times you've done it and whether it'll be fun once you grind hours upon hours a month to get a plex or two (hint: it won't be).
At least watching rats go poof every now and then is still mildly exciting. The luck-based nature of the hacking minigame is just frustrating as all hell and attempting to deal with lots of fast moving things on screen is just a nightmare. I had several incidents yesterday where I'd hover over one can, move to another and be unable to select it because it was too 'close' to the first can.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~update~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The new dev blog that came out the other day: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sounds-in-space-in-odyssey
Key part being:
"The most important and coolest audio feature in this case is the ability to hover over the yet-to-be-clicked nodes and, as part of the soundscape, hear very subtle changes to the sounds of the computer you are trying to hack."
I spent hours yesterday trying to distinguish between these sounds. I am a musician and a pianist with a very keen sense of hearing and I was really struggling to discern whether a node would be empty/bad. It seems there is indeed only subtle changes and even then not all the time, it seems to draw upon a large bank of potential changes which themselves have only probabilities of being one node type or the other.
If this is not the case, then the subtle differences are quite literally too subtle to hear without analyzing the sounds being played digitally.
Initially I thought GREAT! That sounds like a fun/interesting/very challenging way of completing the hacking minigame more successfully! However, after having gone through it, even though there wasn't *that* much of a difference I realised - it's just as effective to brute-force clickspam your way through and get through more sites ending up with the same amount of isk.
Not take more time, not need more skills or modules or ships - just more clickspamming - to be equally, if not more effective. Especially given how easy it is to get at least some loot from these sites, the prices will soon begin to plummet since there are no barriers to entry at all. Meaning there's little point in trying to 'decipher' these new incredibly subtle sound changes since it just won't be worth the effort. |

Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
You'll have to explain to me how you got reduced value when it is both faster and you can grab more and better loot.
My guess would be that you are bad at it, but i'm willing to give you a chance to explain yourself I sell drones and drones accessories. |

Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
186
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 21:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
Staavross wrote:I"The most important and coolest audio feature in this case is the ability to hover over the yet-to-be-clicked nodes and, as part of the soundscape, hear very subtle changes to the sounds of the computer you are trying to hack." Deaf players and those who play with sound off will really appreciate this. Especially since there is no visual equivalent for the information. |

Jaedar Metron
Gigaverse The Imperial Senate
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 22:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
Freighdee Katt wrote:Deaf players and those who play with sound off will really appreciate this. Especially since there is no visual equivalent for the information. Doesn't matter, the sounds might as well be random. Sure, there are key differences in the sounds played, but so far I've had all kinds of nodes hide underneath every sound I've encountered. So much for that, I guess.
Also, as someone pointed out earlier, the prices will plummet due to the low skill entry. Already the price of the most valuable low sec decryptors have halved in all major tradehubs. Will they drop even more? It's only been a few days since the expansion.
Luckily, it seems that the best T2 salvage from the relic sites are still worth getting.
|

Staavross
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
34
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Markus Navarro wrote:You'll have to explain to me how you got reduced value when it is both faster and you can grab more and better loot.
My guess would be that you are bad at it, but i'm willing to give you a chance to explain yourself
You sir, are a ******. The 'faster speed' and 'better loot' you are referring to is, in fact, a decrease in overall ISK/HOUR (at least as far as I can tell).
I dunno about you but I haven't found any cans with 14x capacitor consoles in them post-patch. |

Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Staavross wrote:I dunno about you but I haven't found any cans with 14x capacitor consoles in them post-patch.
These cans definitely exist. I got 18 intact armor plates on my first relic site on tuesday.
Suppose there is actualy less loot in the new sites (which i can't compare as i haven't done null sites before Odyssey) then we have a problem tho. The market gets flooded with salvage and decryptors as is because more ppl run the sites now.
CCP can't just restore old income levels by pumping more salvage into the loot tables. Instead they would have to spice up the loot tables with a wider variety of decent enough items. I don't really know what that could be tho without messing up other markets. During Sisi testing i had the idea of cosmos stuff because the markets for it are as niche as it gets. But then i don't know what repercussions it would have if suddenly mods with such low fitting requirements were relatively widespread and affordable. Someone smarter then me would have to think that through. |
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