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Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 12:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Are all grav sites ("ore" sites) now anoms?
or do they need to be properly probed down still?
if not.... it makes it incredibly easy to cloaky jump miners in wh's. no more combat probs on dscan before you get jumped...
(and yes there will be some of you who say "you should have protection" etc etc... but be realistic. no pvp player wants to protect miners. thats why mining in low sec dosnt work.
Thanks :)
dringy o7 |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
730
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 12:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just pay attention to your scan results. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
FBIJustice
Redneck Luftwaffe Consortium Collective
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 12:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote: Are all grav sites ("ore" sites) now anoms?
or do they need to be properly probed down still?
if not.... it makes it incredibly easy to cloaky jump miners in wh's. no more combat probs on dscan before you get jumped...
(and yes there will be some of you who say "you should have protection" etc etc... but be realistic. no pvp player wants to protect miners. thats why mining in low sec dosnt work.
Thanks :)
dringy o7
time to run with venture cheap fit hope you dont have your implants in cuss these guys around here love the hard core life and hate change but love to gank |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
223
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
If only CCP could design some ship to help out here. Say, something that could move quickly, align quickly, and maybe even have a little bit of warp core strength. Give it a couple turret slots and you could even use T2 non-strip lasers as a trade-off for the extra safety features. Toss in an average ore hold, and it might make a nice little ninja mining ship.
If only CCP could make a ship like that.
|
stup idity
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Do what you should already have done before:
- put a scout on your static - close all other connections - pay attention to new sigs
and you are probably as safe as you were before.
I reign supreme. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1282
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:Wormhole Minning now impossible? I wouldn't say THAT exactly...the Loki isn't the strongest ship for many of its roles, and the Naglfar only just came into its own; but the Scimitar has been a mainstay of shield-based fleets, and the Tornado has been recently used to much effect in alpha-style doctrines. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder Upholders
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
36
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
What are you complaining about the oresites are now as dangerous to run as a normal site. Does no one do normal sites? They still do. But the risk has indeed increased slightly so in compensation the ore sites should now also have the 5 and 10 % ore variations. Using t1mining barges also helos to mitigate the risk. The new system is also bether against bots so you will have less competion. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
196
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 14:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
stup idity wrote:Do what you should already have done before:
- put a scout on your static - close all other connections - pay attention to new sigs
and you are probably as safe as you were before.
I'm going to say "at least" as safe, if not safer because you don't even need to put out probes to see if a new sig spawns. Every time I've been ganked mining in a WH it was because a new exit spawned and I was too lazy to hammer the "scan" button on my scout ever min or so. The new scanner fixes that.
People seem to be worried about how easy sites are to find.... but to me it means I'll probably do more mining than I did before because there's zero effort involved in finding the sites, which makes getting set up quicker.
I'll also add to the above list.... "don't mine in a blob". Spread the mining ships out over the lenght of the belt so even a dictor that slips through will only get one or two.
You *will* lose the odd ship mining in a wormhole but given the payout, it's just the price of doing business, really |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
122
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 14:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
It balances out. Hunters get easier-to-warp-to gravs, potential victims get warning of new sigs. |
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
20
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Not to mention you can just anchor a bubble at the warp in point and anchor some cans around it in line with some celestial objects. You have just defeated the majority of players from warping on top of you except nullified T3s. |
Britta Nolen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
F this noise. I still plan to AFK mine like a boss. ABC now drops enough low ends to actually make **** in house now. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gah my post didn't work :/
It was something along the lines of. - no point mentioning the venture. The quantities are too small for any substantial industry. - while yes nothing should be risk free, one of the only defences a barge pilot has is attention to what is happening. - cloaky ship cannot be detected at all, unless you catch him when he enters system before he raises his cloak, - an exception was made for sleepers in exploration sites in wh's, why not ore sites? Presumably you know how to explore by the time you move into one. - why unesasarily nerf this aspect of wh space to match k space. - why not make it a sig like the others again, The sigs are narrowed down considerably now anyway. This I presume would be preferred in low sec and nul for the same reasons.... But at least they have local. As it is a good scanner can nail you in 30 seconds
Yessss you can have scouts, yesss you can bubble the warp ins. But you needed to do most of these before they became anoms anyway,
:) |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
20
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 15:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:Gah my post didn't work :/
It was something along the lines of. - no point mentioning the venture. The quantities are too small for any substantial industry. - while yes nothing should be risk free, one of the only defences a barge pilot has is attention to what is happening. - cloaky ship cannot be detected at all, unless you catch him when he enters system before he raises his cloak, - an exception was made for sleepers in exploration sites in wh's, why not ore sites? Presumably you know how to explore by the time you move into one. - why unesasarily nerf this aspect of wh space to match k space. - why not make it a sig like the others again, The sigs are narrowed down considerably now anyway. This I presume would be preferred in low sec and nul for the same reasons.... But at least they have local. As it is a good scanner can nail you in 30 seconds
Yessss you can have scouts, yesss you can bubble the warp ins. But you needed to do most of these before they became anoms anyway,
:)
Shouldn't a K162 instantly populate on your scanner at 0% when someone opens it? If it does just keep that window open, and bubble the warp in. Yes, they can warp straight to you, however, you can see when they come in instantly. From there just keep your statics closed. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 01:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well yes a new k162 wh would appear instantly and you have a warning, tho that's probably very annoying to the pirates :D (pretty sure there's a whole other thread designated to that)
Any cleaver pirates are gonna hold up for a few days in the hole they enter.Wait for that new ore sig. Wait for a happy little mining barge then shove a couple bombs up his... Tail pipe. I know im going to try it out...
"But that pirate went to the effort of waiting blah blah blah"
CCP have made the dscan on mining barges practically useless..... And while we are at it... WHY then are gas sites not anomalies as well???? It just makes no sense at all. None.
New scanning changes are great. But to help pirates out the scanner shouldn't run automatically... You should have to pump the scan to see new sigs/sites. And I still think grav sites should still be sigs, at least in wh space. Nul sec and low can keep a watchful eye on local chat for intel. Removing ANY source of intel on OTHER SHIPS for wh dwellers is to harsh.
o7 |
Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 05:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:
Any cleaver pirates are gonna hold up for a few days in the hole they enter.Wait for that new ore sig. Wait for a happy little mining barge then shove a couple bombs up his... Tail pipe. I know im going to try it out...
Yeah they *SO* aren't going to do that.
Wait for days on the off chance the victim logs in at the same time they are on? Then even there's a slim chance they are going to pull out the mining barge.
For what? 1 exhumer kill? Gimme a break.
Go to any hisec ice system and wait for a spawn then smartbomb the lot of them at once.
FYI there's no such thing as pirates in -1.0 |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 05:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:Well yes a new k162 wh would appear instantly and you have a warning, tho that's probably very annoying to the pirates :D (pretty sure there's a whole other thread designated to that)
Any cleaver pirates are gonna hold up for a few days in the hole they enter.Wait for that new ore sig. Wait for a happy little mining barge then shove a couple bombs up his... Tail pipe. I know im going to try it out...
"But that pirate went to the effort of waiting blah blah blah"
CCP have made the dscan on mining barges practically useless..... And while we are at it... WHY then are gas sites not anomalies as well???? It just makes no sense at all. None.
New scanning changes are great. But to help pirates out the scanner shouldn't run automatically... You should have to pump the scan to see new sigs/sites. And I still think grav sites should still be sigs, at least in wh space. Nul sec and low can keep a watchful eye on local chat for intel. Removing ANY source of intel on OTHER SHIPS for wh dwellers is to harsh.
Edit: other cloaky* ships,
o7
Grav sites last for a few days after the sleepers spawn from you mining it. This would be no different from before because they could just scan everything down and wait for you to use one of the grav sites for a few days, and bookmarks last forever. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 06:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hobo - tho least at one stage a corpie COULD have seen unknown probes in system scanning the sites. And then leave a note on the bookmarks that the site has been compromised.
You will now just die when mining in a site if someone has managed to sneak into system. Simple as that. And there's nothing a barge can do about it. May as well take out their dscan it's useless.
(And why aren't gas anoms then?.....noooo sense)
Ok... No more arguing from me :P I've had enough.
Ciao o7 |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1286
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 08:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:You will now just die when mining in a site if someone has managed to sneak into system.
As opposed to before...?
Miners have gotten a simultaneous buff and nerf. We'll see how the pieces land. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
79
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 08:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote:Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram.
Bomber with faction scram. Problem solved. |
|
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
360
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 08:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:Lenier Chenal wrote:Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram. Bomber with faction scram. Problem solved.
Forget that, it's easier to just launch combat probes and scare them into warping straight into your bubbles ;) |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1286
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 10:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
If they even do that. I've podded Ventures before without using my point at all. (Some friendly words of advice.) http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
36
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
I am calling this a miners buff i check all the killboard in the sticky post ontop of this forum these mining barges has been killed by them in w-space since oddesy: 1 retriever 1 procurer 1 covetor
Although it might be to early to tell, it looks like it is rather a buff to mining! Like someone said in the other thread : The sig spawns in the destination system as you initiate warp to your side of it. The new sig is now on their screen. You're in warp to the hole, on your side. You jump through the hole. Session change. New hole loads. Scanner runs.
They've been POS'd up for about a minute already. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
487
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:I am calling this a miners buff i check all the killboard in the sticky post ontop of this forum these mining barges has been killed by them in w-space since oddesy: 1 retriever 1 procurer 1 covetor
Although it might be to early to tell, it looks like it is rather a buff to mining!
Another explanation is that people just don't mine anymore because it's too dangerous And most of those few who do mine, do it in Ventures.
Tbh, I've seen so few miners the last couple of months... or years... it's not really a big factor. Mining in WH's was always suicidal. Mining is a terribly boring activity and it's extremely difficult staying alert for hours while you watch a module slowly cycling. Mining in EVE is built as an afk activity, and afk-mining in w-space obviously means death.
. |
Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
360
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Even SSC alone have killed more than what you listed, 5 covetors, 2 retrievers and 2 ventures off memory. It's a buff to those who paid attention in the past, and a pain for those who refuse to pay attention. Nothing more. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
36
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
You only had one kill in W-SPACE, the rest was in K-SPACE. Well acording to your killboard. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:
Hobo - tho least at one stage a corpie COULD have seen unknown probes in system scanning the sites. And then leave a note on the bookmarks that the site has been compromised.
You will now just die when mining in a site if someone has managed to sneak into system. Simple as that. And there's nothing a barge can do about it. May as well take out their dscan it's useless.
(And why aren't gas anoms then?.....noooo sense)
Ok... No more arguing from me :P I've had enough.
Ciao o7
Once again, how is this different from before? Your corp mate mentions that he saw a K162 open yesterday, the grav sites could be compromised. I understand that alot of mechanics changed with this expansion, but you either need to learn to adapt to the tools you have, or learn to die. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1295
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Today we popped and podded two Ventures AFK mining Scordite in a C5.
...
It hurts just thinking about it. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 14:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:It balances out. Hunters get easier-to-warp-to gravs, potential victims get warning of new sigs.
No, it doesn't.
At first glance, sure, having new sigs instantly populate the scanner window may imply a balance. However, there are a few issues that definitely slant the field in favor of covert attackers.
1) If the scanner window populates you'll know a new sig has appeared. Yesterday I entered a system where friends were farming with a large fleet. They were reporting ~15 anoms. I could only see cosmic sigs. I re-worked my filters, restarted the client and cleared my cache, nothing. Other players were able to confirm this bug.
2) There is also another bug where one has to select another filter before new sigs appear.
3) If an existing hole is off dscan and one doesn't happened to have friends online or friends who are going to do NOTHING more than keep their eyes on their respective wormhole or alts to watch all holes, the miner will NEVER see it coming. And lets face it. Mining is not exactly an activity that is profitable enough to tie up multiple other toons doing nothing. So the likelihood of a coordinated op is minimal.
So, is mining impossible? No. I would categorize it as an extremely dangerous activity with a small risk/reward ratio. I would tell anyone thinking of doing it that I highly recommend they don't.
HTFU!...for the children! |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1295
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 15:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:No, it doesn't.
1-2) Are you pointing to bugs in implementation as proof the theory itself won't work?
3) No, the sigs will now show up even if they are further than 14.6 AU away. It's like a preschooler's version of a DSP in your ship. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
|
Rosa Larosa
Wishful Desires Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 17:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hearing all the bears complain is making me sic. Treat the mining sites as any other anomaly. Close your holes before you do it......, both of them!!! |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1156
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 04:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:No, it doesn't. 1-2) Are you pointing to bugs in implementation as proof the theory itself won't work? 3) No, the sigs will now show up even if they are further than 14.6 AU away. It's like a preschooler's version of a DSP in your ship.
1-2) Yes because it doesn't work properly. It'd be like jumping out of a plane using a chute with holes in it all while telling everyone it's perfectly safe because it shouldn't have holes in it. Yet it does.
3) The operative word is "existing", Nathan. If it already exists and you know about it but you don't have the man power to cover all your exits and mine, then yeah, you'll never see it coming if you do mine.
Rosa Larosa wrote:Hearing all the bears complain is making me sic
And btw sugartits, I am a bear but I don't mine. In fact, how I bear it up in w-space is not affected by these changes whatsoever. I farm sleepers and am perfectly capable of doing it without getting ganked. Last tengu loss >500d. And, I still have a pretty decent KB on my main. This isn't as much whining as it is man talk. So stop trying be all in our man business and go fetch us some beers, mm'kay?
Quote:Close your holes before you do it......, both of them!!!
Perfectly sensible except if the miner didn't have the manpower to keep eyes on both holes, can't really expect him to spend an additional 45 minutes just to close the system up by himself. It's a pretty ridiculous setup time. And also, close both your holes. You're stinking up with place with smell of dead fish and rotten eggs. HTFU!...for the children! |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
298
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 05:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Are you calling my girl sugartits? And I also carebeared a C3 alone for half a year and I managed to close my holes pretty well thank you bery much. Now shut your hole and go make me a sandwich. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
100
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 08:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Surely it is still easier than running an anom combat site? They're always on dscan like the new grav sites, and most people manage to gtfo of them when you want to kill them... I'd say Grav sites are safer, I don't think I've ever seen an asteroid point someone. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 10:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote: Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram.
The damned things have a tendency to tackle you and call for help, too. Best Venture is tackle Venture.
|
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1299
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 11:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:Lenier Chenal wrote: Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram.
The damned things have a tendency to tackle you and call for help, too. Best Venture is tackle Venture.
I honestly approve of the changes Ventures have made to wormhole mining/gassing. They're at the very least a lot harder to capture (prompting more noobs to get into WH space), and can even be used for PVP. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Phorneus
Vocare Ad Regnum
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 01:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
and ... one year later, mining is no longer an AFK business... cuzz CCP will add a minigame, just like hacking lol!
oh wait, i was dreaming... back into the mining...
zzzzzzz |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 02:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rosa Larosa wrote:Hearing all the bears complain is making me sic. Treat the mining sites as any other anomaly. Close your holes before you do it......, both of them!!!
Yeah, but miners used to have two choices, mine in belts or look for sigs to mine. Now we only one option. PvE players didn't have th eir options reduced in a like manner.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 03:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'm still mining. I just use a tanked procurer. It's cheap and can take a beating unless a bunch of people show up. Most times I've been attacked there's been more then enough time to call for help and the attackers die. If no help is around I just shrug and eject to save getting podded. According to my numbers I can pretty easily make isk even with having to replace a ship now and then. Our WH isn't super busy most of the time. |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 12:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote:Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram.
yeah but WAY less ore and smaller ore bay makes it not realy worth it.
so this is makiing WH mining less attractive and it wasnt that attractive to start with, i mean not only you need to haul everything continue while mining you need to compress it and move it to high sec to refine but in high sec you need to travel a lot aswell as you always have diffrent exits + that orca to move out 200k compressed ore will have big impact on the WH mass
give miners at least the chance of ice belts in WH space and a good refining module for minerals because 25% loss is nothing anyone wants too loose refining it.
and i thought that Odessey should promote mining in 0.0 well without hidden belts so anyone can instantly warp to ore site when entering system as there arent many of thoise sites in 0.0 or in WH space miners are scr*wed pretty hard.
i aint a miner but its pretty much only solo content in C4 or higher after PI is done |
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1425
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 13:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:i aint a miner but its pretty much only solo content in C4 or higher after PI is done
PVP? |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 13:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:i aint a miner but its pretty much only solo content in C4 or higher after PI is done PVP?
well i did some PVP in 0.0 and before that a bit in low sec i am far from a bad ass PVPer but i defo like it and want to do it more. but i also like PVE 9doing sites) more then i like mining but i do mining aswell |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
302
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 15:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Carebears go waaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Carebears go waaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
you should not forget to take your meds cant you see you need them!? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
302
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 18:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:Carebears go waaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! you should not forget to take your meds cant you see you need them!?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote:Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram.
just becaue i was curious i tried it men takes forever to mine decent amount no that isnt an option |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1426
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 19:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Lenier Chenal wrote:Just use a venture. Those things are annoying to catch, even with a 3+ point scram. just becaue i was curious i tried it men takes forever to mine decent amount no that isnt an option
Now I'm not much of a miner. Although I do generally mine (2 retrievers) for maybe an hour every couple of months. Its just enough to get the minerals I need for polymer reactions (which is also just something to do when I'm bored).
I just mined for an hour post odyssey and managed to live. WH mining still sucks and I don't know why anyone would bother. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
302
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cause all of those lasers hitting those rocks is badass |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1426
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Cause all of those lasers hitting those rocks is badass
well put it this way. The mining (while boring as is) isn't the worst part it seems to me. it's the aftermath that would really make me want to gouge my eyes out. |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 09:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
For all those who say that WH mining has been killed by the new changes. This is what happened to me yesterday.
I was mining Ark in a Retriever, Cloaked Stealth Bomber warps in, I run away, bug out of system and look for another WH to ninja.
OK, it wasn't that simple, it took recon, planning and setting up, but that was the outcome. The changes mean that now, you have to plan a mining Op in a WH system, especially if you are a solo miner like me.
What it has done is hamper afk mining in WH systems and has made people to actually have to play the game.
And no, I am not going to tell how I set up my Op, it's not rocket science and if you can't work it out for yourself you shouldn't be in a WH system. Also, because it's not rocket science it probably won't be that difficult for somebody to come up with a counter. The longer that can be delayed, the longer I can keep doing what I have to do before I try implementing Plan 'B' |
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Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 10:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:For all those who say that WH mining has been killed by the new changes. This is what happened to me yesterday.
I was mining Ark in a Retriever, Cloaked Stealth Bomber warps in, I run away, bug out of system and look for another WH to ninja.
OK, it wasn't that simple, it took recon, planning and setting up, but that was the outcome. The changes mean that now, you have to plan a mining Op in a WH system, especially if you are a solo miner like me.
What it has done is hamper afk mining in WH systems and has made people to actually have to play the game.
And no, I am not going to tell how I set up my Op, it's not rocket science and if you can't work it out for yourself you shouldn't be in a WH system. Also, because it's not rocket science it probably won't be that difficult for somebody to come up with a counter. The longer that can be delayed, the longer I can keep doing what I have to do before I try implementing Plan 'B'
riddle me this... how much ISK an hour you make doing that? because without boosts and only in a retriever you cant make that much. damn its more profitable to do missions in HS i am sure!
so the risk vs reward is completly out of balance in WHs and the logistics to get it compressed => moved to HS => correct station with standings + where the rest of your ore is => refinning it and moving it back tho the last step is optional
come on too much risk and too much effort for too few isk is pretty much why nobody wanna do it |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1427
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 11:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Max Godsnottlingson wrote:For all those who say that WH mining has been killed by the new changes. This is what happened to me yesterday.
I was mining Ark in a Retriever, Cloaked Stealth Bomber warps in, I run away, bug out of system and look for another WH to ninja.
OK, it wasn't that simple, it took recon, planning and setting up, but that was the outcome. The changes mean that now, you have to plan a mining Op in a WH system, especially if you are a solo miner like me.
What it has done is hamper afk mining in WH systems and has made people to actually have to play the game.
And no, I am not going to tell how I set up my Op, it's not rocket science and if you can't work it out for yourself you shouldn't be in a WH system. Also, because it's not rocket science it probably won't be that difficult for somebody to come up with a counter. The longer that can be delayed, the longer I can keep doing what I have to do before I try implementing Plan 'B' riddle me this... how much ISK an hour you make doing that? because without boosts and only in a retriever you cant make that much. damn its more profitable to do missions in HS i am sure! so the risk vs reward is completly out of balance in WHs and the logistics to get it compressed => moved to HS => correct station with standings + where the rest of your ore is => refinning it and moving it back tho the last step is optional come on too much risk and too much effort for too few isk is pretty much why nobody wanna do it
Forget the risk. Effort alone makes it not worth it. |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Reward is with a couple of loads or Ark or Bist, I can get more Battleships built and up for sale in High Sec. Making mega isk isn't the whole game, playing the game is what matters. As I said, I have a plan that works for me, at the moment, knowing how good Eve players are at thinking 'outside of the box' I am guessing that it is not too long before I have to work out a new plan. And that is the main reward for me. |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
473
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
why do wormhole minning when can you do wormhole winning |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 16:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Casirio wrote:why do wormhole minning when can you do wormhole winning
This is what I am looking at now, sort of Gamekeeper turning Poacher.
Max is an old character now, and the player behind him is even older, so it takes time for new ideas to sink in. But Max has more then made his iskies, has done everything from huge fleet battles in Delve to fast frigate sweeps, to grinding out missions and building stuff. |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 17:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1431
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it.
Just remove the 75% hard cap from the refining array would fix alot. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1313
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it.
Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1431
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:1c3crysta1 wrote:I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it. Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
Not the same, and hardly as useful as a non-broken refining array would be. |
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1313
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote:1c3crysta1 wrote:I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it. Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual. Not the same, and hardly as useful as a non-broken refining array would be.
I agree. Refining in a POS really should be on the same efficiency level as a station, if not higher. I honestly don't know why it isn't...you jump through enough hoops to use one. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |
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Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
629
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
I believe that this is the update refining array link you're looking for. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go! |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:1c3crysta1 wrote:I really think that WH mining needs a new refining module with a good throughput/efficency to open it up to a larger audience. Having to use an iteron for every load of ore that you mine isn't worth it. Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
yeah real handy and how you going to get it out of the C4 oh wait you cant...
Nathan Jameson wrote: I agree. Refining in a POS really should be on the same efficiency level as a station, if not higher. I honestly don't know why it isn't...you jump through enough hoops to use one.
i think it is because you dont need SOV nor standing.
thnx |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
134
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote: Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
yeah real handy and how you going to get it out of the C4 oh wait you cant... thnx If you're doing enough mining in your hole, it's still worth it to have a Rorq, even if you can't ever take it out. |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote: Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
yeah real handy and how you going to get it out of the C4 oh wait you cant... thnx If you're doing enough mining in your hole, it's still worth it to have a Rorq, even if you can't ever take it out.
to make it abundandly clear...
we have an orca and a rorq but we dont get that much mining sites and besides that the risk is very high now (ore sites can be instantly warped too) no probes needed hell not even a system scan
and you need a ton of stuff and the reward is totaly cr*p and on top of that you need to haul it to rorq => compress => haul to high sec system (where all ore is + standing) refine it and move it back to build something in your WH (wich is pretty much needed at some point) it is SO MUCH effort and risk and where is the reward? lower then missions in high sec and they tell me they wanna stimulate mining |
Justice Angel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bring back MINES!!!!!! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1431
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 22:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote: Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
yeah real handy and how you going to get it out of the C4 oh wait you cant... thnx If you're doing enough mining in your hole, it's still worth it to have a Rorq, even if you can't ever take it out.
It would be interesting if anyone ever did an actual ROI calculation on building a rorq inside. And it still isn't a substitute for a decent refinery. At best a Rorq can compress what ore you need to haul out. Refining into minerals gives you the option of hauling out or building.
I could forsee it being fun, even for the larger WH entities, if you could actually build say, T1 cruisers etc inside. What fun you could have with cheap ships that you didnt have to run to HS to replace every time. Just a thought. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
134
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 23:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Nathan Jameson wrote: Costs over a bil, but it's called a Rorqual.
yeah real handy and how you going to get it out of the C4 oh wait you cant... thnx If you're doing enough mining in your hole, it's still worth it to have a Rorq, even if you can't ever take it out. It would be interesting if anyone ever did an actual ROI calculation on building a rorq inside. And it still isn't a substitute for a decent refinery. At best a Rorq can compress what ore you need to haul out. Refining into minerals gives you the option of hauling out or building. I could forsee it being fun, even for the larger WH entities, if you could actually build say, T1 cruisers etc inside. What fun you could have with cheap ships that you didnt have to run to HS to replace every time. Just a thought. ROI for a rorq is easy--25% mineral cost with no standings, 30% mineral cost with perfect standings, compared to refining inside the hole.
After doing the math, I calculated it would pay for itself after something like 400 man-hours mining in a retriever, which is actually quite reasonable. Of course, that didn't include the time/hassle of sieging the rorq to compress... |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 06:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Double post, I realy need to learn to edit before I post |
Max Godsnottlingson
Bitter Veterans
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 06:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
Justice Angel wrote:Bring back MINES!!!!!!
You know, that is not a bad idea. Eve had mines to start with but had to be dropped because they soon turned an area into a lag fest. But Eve has come a long way since then, and if they adpoted a limiting factor, such as we have with drones, and have them short lived, say a couple of hours, then we may have a workable system that helps a player, or small team, that make the effort to prepare for mining in a dangerous area. |
Ellendras Silver
Axial tilt
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 10:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:Justice Angel wrote:Bring back MINES!!!!!! You know, that is not a bad idea. Eve had mines to start with but had to be dropped because they soon turned an area into a lag fest. But Eve has come a long way since then, and if they adpoted a limiting factor, such as we have with drones, and have them short lived, say a couple of hours, then we may have a workable system that helps a player, or small team, that make the effort to prepare for mining in a dangerous area.
i guess that was before my time... how was this working? |
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Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
33
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 11:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lol this is still going. Awesome.
even if a little off topic ;)
So again.
- Mining in an anom isnt very good risk / reward / effort. Well it wasnt the best to begin with. but now why even bother. - If you are in a combat anom. you are combat ready so saying the new anoms are anything like mining ones is just plain stupid. - CCP you have basically made the only place to PRODUCTIVELY mine - high sec. having ore sites as anoms in low sec creates the same problems. - Yes your buddys can watch you. yes you can bubble up and watch sigs. but removing the need for a combat ship to probe down a defenseless vessel is not balance. - and AGAIN, I ask then why are gas sites excluded from this move?
peace.
o7
|
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Mass Overload
303
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 15:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
If you are in a cbat anom you are combat ready .., experience says otherwise |
Justice Angel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Max Godsnottlingson wrote:Justice Angel wrote:Bring back MINES!!!!!! You know, that is not a bad idea. Eve had mines to start with but had to be dropped because they soon turned an area into a lag fest. But Eve has come a long way since then, and if they adpoted a limiting factor, such as we have with drones, and have them short lived, say a couple of hours, then we may have a workable system that helps a player, or small team, that make the effort to prepare for mining in a dangerous area.
Nothing better then dropping lots of mines in from of a hole and get a kill for in a mining ship hehehe |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
473
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 21:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
im not a miner but they really should do something to buff the refining especially with these changes. miners then have more reward and more risk, and more targets for those looking for them. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
36
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 03:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
Justice Angel wrote:Max Godsnottlingson wrote:Justice Angel wrote:Bring back MINES!!!!!! You know, that is not a bad idea. Eve had mines to start with but had to be dropped because they soon turned an area into a lag fest. But Eve has come a long way since then, and if they adpoted a limiting factor, such as we have with drones, and have them short lived, say a couple of hours, then we may have a workable system that helps a player, or small team, that make the effort to prepare for mining in a dangerous area. Nothing better then dropping lots of mines in a belt or some where and you get a kill in a mining ship hehehe
Whhhat? Mines....MINES. now there's an interesting solution..... +1 that sounds great.
Could they be an adaptation of drones? ie. 5 per character. For a mine to be operational you must be on grid? And they are anchored like a warp bubble? How did they used to work?
|
Justice Angel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 03:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:Justice Angel wrote:Max Godsnottlingson wrote:Justice Angel wrote:Bring back MINES!!!!!! You know, that is not a bad idea. Eve had mines to start with but had to be dropped because they soon turned an area into a lag fest. But Eve has come a long way since then, and if they adpoted a limiting factor, such as we have with drones, and have them short lived, say a couple of hours, then we may have a workable system that helps a player, or small team, that make the effort to prepare for mining in a dangerous area. Nothing better then dropping lots of mines in a belt or some where and you get a kill in a mining ship hehehe Whhhat? Mines....MINES. now there's an interesting solution..... +1 that sounds great. Could they be an adaptation of drones? ie. 5 per character. For a mine to be operational you must be on grid? And they are anchored like a warp bubble? How did they used to work?
Here you go https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=247554 <-- is the post I started the other day |
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